Need Help for Church Inquisitor

[Palanan]

I need suggestions to fill out a Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 3 of Zarus (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041203a), a human deity who considers every half-human to be an abomination.

The Church Inquisitor has several abilities which are handy for uncovering hidden evil, and I’d like to expand this to detecting half-humans and related races, such as tieflings, aasimar, etc. which may be trying to disguise themselves.

I’m especially looking for feats and spells which would be useful to the Church Inquisitor at this particular level, as he ferrets out hidden abominations and zealously researches the ancestry of suspect families. I’m open to all official 3.5 and Pathfinder material—anything that would help a Church Inquisitor of this level be more effective at rooting out half-humans and their ilk.

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[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Considering the domains Zarus offers, you'll probably spend quite a bit of time in melee. Divine Oracle 4 gets you Uncanny Dodge and Evasion that works in heavy armor, and you can get its feat prerequisite for 2,000 gp via the Frog God's Fane in Complete Scoundrel.

Contemplative 10 is always a decent choice for finishing out any Cleric. You can get Law Devotion or another devotion feat in Complete Champion instead of the bonus domain at 1st level. Use the 6th level bonus domain for the Destiny domain, so you can DMM: Persist its 9th level spell.

[Dagroth]

There's a spell from Ebberon called Force Shapechange (6th level Truth Domain spell). The Truth Domain seems like it's something that would fit your deity.

Look at stuff for the Silver Flame from Ebberon. They're anti-lycanthrope, but pretty zealous about it and could easily be refluffed to match your deity's goals.

[Venger]

There's a spell from Ebberon called Force Shapechange (6th level Truth Domain spell). The Truth Domain seems like it's something that would fit your deity.

Look at stuff for the Silver Flame from Ebberon. They're anti-lycanthrope, but pretty zealous about it and could easily be refluffed to match your deity's goals.
excellent suggestion, silver flame matches this concept perfectly.

if you don't mind jamming southern magician on there, you might look at silver pyromancer, one of the silver flame prcs. it lets you deal divine damage with energy spells and adds the paladin list to yours, which is great since they have some killer stuff.

[Palanan]

I appreciate the suggestions, especially the Silver Flame idea—definitely worth looking into.

But what would be most helpful right now are suggestions for feats, spells, items, or anything else which would help a Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 3, since that’s the level this build is starting at.

Also, would Cloistered Cleric 3 have any advantages over Vanilla Cleric 3? And are there any Pathfinder cleric archetypes which would be useful at Cleric 3?

[Inevitability]

Generally, cloistered cleric is better if you don't plan on going melee (and even if you do, it may be worth it once you get Divine Power).

[sleepyphoenixx]

Generally, cloistered cleric is better if you don't plan on going melee (and even if you do, it may be worth it once you get Divine Power).

Since you can enter Church Inquisitor at level 4 there's little reason not to go cloistered.
The difference only matters if you use fractional BAB, and even then it's pretty minor.

[Venger]

I appreciate the suggestions, especially the Silver Flame idea—definitely worth looking into.

But what would be most helpful right now are suggestions for feats, spells, items, or anything else which would help a Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 3, since that’s the level this build is starting at.

Also, would Cloistered Cleric 3 have any advantages over Vanilla Cleric 3? And are there any Pathfinder cleric archetypes which would be useful at Cleric 3?

if it's allowed, always take cloistered cleric. switch out the knowledge domain for knowledge devotion. church inquisitor gives plenty of knowledge skills

[Palanan]

Okay, sounds like Cloistered Cleric is a must-have. The Pathfinder version of the Knowledge domain has a very interesting ability, which allows you to learn a creature’s weaknesses with a touch attack. That could be extremely useful for this cleric’s line of work.

Are there any spells from second to fourth level which would be good for revealing the impure? Anything involving ancestry, genealogy, bloodlines, anything like that?

And are there any feats which would fit this theme?

[Inevitability]

Are there any spells from second to fourth level which would be good for revealing the impure? Anything involving ancestry, genealogy, bloodlines, anything like that?

Discern Bloodline is a first-level divination that does pretty much what it says on the tin; it reveals a creature's race. One casting can scan multiple creatures.

It's not on the cleric list, but Extra Spell (Discern Bloodline) should be able to grant it. Alternatively, you could develop a clerical version for 1000 GP.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Discern Bloodline is a first-level divination that does pretty much what it says on the tin; it reveals a creature's race. One casting can scan multiple creatures.

It's not on the cleric list, but Extra Spell (Discern Bloodline) should be able to grant it. Alternatively, you could develop a clerical version for 1000 GP.

The Divine Magician ACF (CM) lets you pick an Abjuration, Divination or Necromancy spell per spell level from the wizard list.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Inevitability
Discern Bloodline is a first-level divination that does pretty much what it says on the tin; it reveals a creature's race.

…you could develop a clerical version for 1000 GP.

This is perfect, thanks.


Originally Posted by sleepyphoenixx
The Divine Magician ACF (CM) lets you pick an Abjuration, Divination or Necromancy spell per spell level from the wizard list.

Thanks for reminding me about this ACF. In this case, I’d rather not lose a domain for a single first-level spell, and it makes more sense to develop a divine version instead.



—So, last night I rolled up stats for this guy: 16, 18, 15, 13, 12, 14, which isn’t too bad.

I’m putting the 18 in Cha, since I’m thinking this guy will be a smooth, cunning political operator. What are some good social feats to consider? I know there’s a whole swarm of +2/+2 skill-bonus feats, especially from the FR sourcebooks, but those are pretty terrible.

Are there some better social feats that would play well with a high Cha, either in 3.5 or in Pathfinder?

[ATHATH]

The two Dark Speech-related feats, perhaps?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ATHATH
The two Dark Speech-related feats, perhaps?

What are these, and where are they from?

Most importantly, what do they do? Can’t recall having heard of them before.

[Venger]

What are these, and where are they from?

Most importantly, what do they do? Can’t recall having heard of them before.

dark speech is from bovd, dark whispers is from elder evils

dark whispers lets you stagger enemies by yelling bad words at them in exchange for some cha damage (dip binder 1 and bind naberius)

dark speech lets you do a bunch of other stuff like scare people, boost the cl of items, smash doors, and create hiveminds of vermin. it's like words of creation.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Venger
*explanation*

Okay, I appreciate it. These don’t fit the concept, and not really the sort of thing I was looking for.

Are there more conventional social feats that would help this guy ingratiate himself into a community? I'm looking for ways to build on that high Charisma.

[Venger]

Okay, I appreciate it. These don’t fit the concept, and not really the sort of thing I was looking for.

Are there more conventional social feats that would help this guy ingratiate himself into a community? I'm looking for ways to build on that high Charisma.

you might be interested in master manipulator from PHB2. little effect in a combat, but very useful in a highly social/rp based campaign, which it sounds like your guy is in.

[ATHATH]

Wanderer's Diplomacy might be useful, although you'd have to refluff it.

Take a look at this if you are interested: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472308-Optimize-This-Feat-1-Wanderer-s-Diplomacy

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Venger
you might be interested in master manipulator from PHB2.

This is excellent, thanks. Kind of a niche feat, but it fits my concept perfectly.

Anything else like this?


Originally Posted by ATHATH
Wanderer's Diplomacy might be useful….

Interesting, but not quite right for this guy.

Still open to other social feats, though.

[Dagroth]

The Evangelist (same book as Church Inquisitor) seems like what you're looking for... but sadly it doesn't improve casting.

[Keld Denar]

Church Inquisitor doesn't advance Turn Undead, so I would find something to do with the uses. Either tank your Cha so it's a non-ability and you can focus better on physical attributes or find some other way to wield it. I'm a fan of Divine Defiance from FCII. It allows you to counterspell as an immediate action at the expense of 1 TU attempt per try. Other great options are Divine Might and some of the Devotion feats. Whatever you do, do something because having it stay as a crappy half-useable ability is such as waste when it has so much potential.

[Dagroth]

Church Inquisitor doesn't advance Turn Undead, so I would find something to do with the uses. Either tank your Cha so it's a non-ability and you can focus better on physical attributes or find some other way to wield it. I'm a fan of Divine Defiance from FCII. It allows you to counterspell as an immediate action at the expense of 1 TU attempt per try. Other great options are Divine Might and some of the Devotion feats. Whatever you do, do something because having it stay as a crappy half-useable ability is such as waste when it has so much potential.

Powering Devotion feats, Powering Divine Metamagic... the list of things you can do with Turn Undead (besides turning undead) is huge.

It's much more useful than "tank cha so you can get a few more points in Str".

[Venger]

Powering Devotion feats, Powering Divine Metamagic... the list of things you can do with Turn Undead (besides turning undead) is huge.

It's much more useful than "tank cha so you can get a few more points in Str".

right, that's what he said, he then listed some devotion feats you can fuel with your turns.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Keld Denar
Other great options are Divine Might and some of the Devotion feats.

So, which Devotion feats would be helpful here? I don't have Complete Champion, and apart from Knowledge Devotion I'm not too familiar with these.

Also still open to social feats, from both 3.5 and Pathfinder.

[Keld Denar]

Law Devotion is pretty strong and fits the CI theme. First hit's free, but every use after that costs 3 TU attempts. With a 10 Cha, you have 2/day. With 16 Cha, you have 3/day. Gives you +3 to hit or AC which stacks with nearly everything (Sacred) that is swappable with a swift action. Bonus increases to +5 automatically at 10th level and +7 at 15th.

The other Devotions are either not as good, or don't fit Zarus. Animal is great, but doesn't fit. Destruction might fit, but is bad.

If you get a good Cha, you can get some decent mileage out of Divine Might. It gives +Cha to damage for 1 round as a free action for 1 TU attempt. Law Devotion generally gives better damage return when combined with Power Attack at middle Cha values, but does have some drawbacks. When you burn Law Devotion, you have 10 rounds of pump, but you have to use it in those 10 rounds or lose it. With Divine Might, you can use one round of Full Attack and the next round cast a spell, and you've only spent 1 round worth of Divine Might. This makes Divine Might a little more portable if your combats are short but frequent. Also, if your Cha mod is say...+10, you get about the same damage return as +5 Law Devotion after your channel that through 2:1 Power Attack. Divine Might is also better if you have a large number of attacks that don't get 2:1 PA, such as from duel wielding or having natural attacks.

Of course, you can do both, but feats are valuable and you'll end up burning through your TU uses at an awkward rate.

Less martially inclined, I'm a fan of Divine Defiance from FCII, as mentioned above. Clerics get Dispel Magic, which can be used for Counterspelling. You can have it online as early as level 5 (3 for the feat, 5 to learn Dispel Magic). With the Inquisition domain power from CI, you get a +4 bonus on Dispel Magic checks that isn't capped by DM's CL cap. That means your can regularly play "Simon Says" with enemy magic, even arcane casters. Don't forget to invest a couple ranks in Spellcraft. If you want to be the big bully on the block, pick up the Duelward and Battlemagic Perception spells from PHBII and Mini Handbook respectively and eventually a Ring of Spellbattle from MIC. Power Word: NOPE when it comes to enemy casters.

Of course, there is also Divine Metamagic as an option, esp Persistomancy shananigans. That's a level of cheesiness that is just past my normal lactose comforts. One or 2 Persisted spells aren't bad, but when you shine like a Christmas tree under Arcane Sight due to Nightstick abuse, I think that's kinda cheap. YMMV. If you want to go that route, there are dozens of guides that you can reference. I won't bore you with it here.