First time running a Bard, plan on heavy min-maxing with specific prestiges. Halp plz

[Geomancer8]

Alright, so I can say that this a 3.5 campaign I am so excited about. It is a 4 person campaign from lv. 1 with some of my most creative homies and the spread is fascinating. We are not going to have this broken team as much as a really hilariously great RP synergy. Lemme catch you up to speed.

There is our homeless human urban druid, Frank. He runs distractions. Dude is a boss, but limits his druidic-ness because he is bitter and old. Think multitool. There is our half-giant cleric Imwei, who is more or less a heavy sustain tank/support. I am a bit nervous because I have no clue what he is scheming, but I trust him. Then there is lir dwarven fighter who has never played before. Our straight man. Running vanilla to start and adapting.

So, where do I come in? The leader and uniter of the group. A forest gnome bard from the Stonefingers family. Backstory is that he lived in a forest that was in war with Drows. Very spiritual homeland in terms of fetish cult from Africa. Left to be a merchant and ends up selling arms to children, decides to say scratch that and takes on life as a (hipster) bard.

Okay, now that you have the background (and just get an idea of how stoked I am), I am terrified of screwing this up. I rolled so well on stats, and put my 18 in int (for rank abuse) and A SECOND 18 obviously in cha. I stacked wis alright, with str lowest and i forget how i broke the tie on con and dex. Either way, I have read Josh's handbook, studied the SRD and looked tirelessly at how I want to build this guy. He will be pretty poor in battle, so I need him to focus on gimmicks and cheese. The urban druid can gish with atk and casting. Cleric support and heal with a bit of gruff. And that fighter, well ya know.

What I need to know is any suggestions on some dips/variances I can put in this bard. What I am CERTAIN of is that I want to at least go 2-3 lv's in Master of Masks and I will be taking leadership feat at lv. 6. So my question becomes, what is a good path to take. I will at least go bard 6, but not sure if it is worth it to stay to 7, 8, 9 or to start dipping after 6 because I will be putting 2-3 lv's in MoM. Thus, I can go bard 6-7/ random dip 1/ MoM 2-3...

I dont want to think too far ahead past that, although I wont lie in saying that Sublime Chord is out of the question (goes against my character) and that Divine Prankster is cool but thematically out of line. My character is a hardy embracer of life and very optimistic after so much pain. A bit distanced/spacey and delusional. I wouldnt mind Dirgesinger (it honestly is REALLY TEMPTING), but that would mean, Bard 6-whatever/random dip only if it is truly helpful/ MoM 2-3/ Dirgesinger 5 and then 5 leftover levels.

You get it, guys. I am cracking. Anybody want to help me clean this up for an optimized, fun run. Suggestions welcome.

[Venger]

as ever, the handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/bards-handbook.html) does a good job of covering the basics and is a helpful place to learn about typical bard prcs.

is there a mechanical reason you want master of masks in your build? it doesn't have a lot to offer bard and retards your casting pretty severely.

do not take dirgesinger, as it doesn't progress your spellcasting and is an abysmal class.

[Geomancer8]

[/QUOTE]

is there a mechanical reason you want master of masks in your build? it doesn't have a lot to offer bard and retards your casting pretty severely.

do not take dirgesinger, as it doesn't progress your spellcasting and is an abysmal class.[/QUOTE]

I really want more RP based builds and something I can enjoy. My character is not a devotional singer and we already have so much casting potential. I just dont want to go down a standard path, but dont want to throw away a good build. MoM just looks super fun and I love the idea of making creepy masks to use in batte. Is there any other way to go bard besides 3rd tier caster?

[Telonius]

This sounds a bit like one of my villainous competition builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19308582&postcount=40) flipped on its head.

Anyway, with Sublime Chord out of the picture, one lost caster level from Master of Masks, and consideration of Dirgesinger, your caster level is going to be pretty low. (I don't think you'll even be hitting 6th level spells). If you're okay with that, no problem; but be aware that you're losing a lot of power by losing out on spells.

Most of the cheese that Bard can pull - apart from spellcasting - is centered around Inspire Courage, particularly with Dragonfire Inspiration. If you pick the right dragon, you can start inspiring all of your allies with large amounts of Sonic damage to their attacks.

EDIT: Is Tome of Battle available? A Bardsader or Bardblade build might be more suited to the style you're going for.

[Darrin]

What I need to know is any suggestions on some dips/variances I can put in this bard. What I am CERTAIN of is that I want to at least go 2-3 lv's in Master of Masks and I will be taking leadership feat at lv. 6. So my question becomes, what is a good path to take. I will at least go bard 6, but not sure if it is worth it to stay to 7, 8, 9 or to start dipping after 6 because I will be putting 2-3 lv's in MoM. Thus, I can go bard 6-7/ random dip 1/ MoM 2-3...


Could you explain exactly what it is you need from Master of Masks? I'm having trouble imagining what you're trying to get out of it.

As far as break points go, Bard 6 or Bard 8 is good. Bard 6 can use Music of Creation (Eberron Campaign Setting p. 34) to swap suggestion for Song of the Heart (or one of the other bardic music feats). Bard 8 gets Inspire Courage +2, which is kinda important if you're doing any kind of Inspire Courage/Dragonfire Inspiration optimization.

For your "random dip", Warblade has Int synergy (sorta), and picking up White Raven Tactics to give one of the spellcasters extra turns would be quite nifty.

No Sublime Chord, eh? Huh. It sounds like you want more of a skillmonkey. I'd suggest maxing out Forgery, but other than that... I'm not sure what skills you want to focus on?

I guess what I'm asking is... if you don't want to focus on high-level spellcasting or melee, then what specific aspect of Bard do you want to optimize?

[Geomancer8]

Could you explain exactly what it is you need from Master of Masks? I'm having trouble imagining what you're trying to get out of it.

As far as break points go, Bard 6 or Bard 8 is good. Bard 6 can use Music of Creation (Eberron Campaign Setting p. 34) to swap suggestion for Song of the Heart (or one of the other bardic music feats). Bard 8 gets Inspire Courage +2, which is kinda important if you're doing any kind of Inspire Courage/Dragonfire Inspiration optimization.

For your "random dip", Warblade has Int synergy (sorta), and picking up White Raven Tactics to give one of the spellcasters extra turns would be quite nifty.

No Sublime Chord, eh? Huh. It sounds like you want more of a skillmonkey. I'd suggest maxing out Forgery, but other than that... I'm not sure what skills you want to focus on?

I guess what I'm asking is... if you don't want to focus on high-level spellcasting or melee, then what specific aspect of Bard do you want to optimize?

Ya, so here is my thing. I am used to playing as the OP char (an insanely stealthy rogue/assassin or a 3.5 druid) and going into bard is uncomfortable. It feels like second-rate everything. I didnt even know about the MoM class before, but I already had craft [tribal] masks as a skill, for fun RP. Think of the Warren Ellis Moon Knight series where he goes full tribal. Part of it is RP focused, but I love the idea of reviving a Greek Tragedy/African Dance/Egyptian Worship style in my bard where he is dressed up in bones and fetish (worship) style costumes in battle. I get it, MoM is not great, but it is super fun. However, what I want is a means t justifying the dip to keep FUN and FUNctional together. Therefore, I am trying to find a way to incorporate it wheere it doesnt shoot me in the foot, as everybody made quite apparent.

I just think that even the urban druid and cleric will have enougb casting and that the fighter will have enough atk, so the only route I can fill is abusive diplomacy and leadership feat with support. I just dont know how to run a secondary battle character, lol.

[Calthropstu]

running on bards is generally frowned upon. Particularly by Bards.

[Telonius]

Okay, so you've got a few themes going here. Tribal mask, master of masks, primitive sorts of worship, looking freaky in combat, diplomacy abuse, and Bard.

How about this ...

Take a couple of levels of Bard, into Master of Masks. Take the Savage mask to give you a set of two natural weapons, and Martial Study (White Raven) to get a maneuver of your choice and Diplomacy as always a class skill. Follow that up with Totemist.

[Geomancer8]

Okay, so you've got a few themes going here. Tribal mask, master of masks, primitive sorts of worship, looking freaky in combat, diplomacy abuse, and Bard.

How about this ...

Take a couple of levels of Bard, into Master of Masks. Take the Savage mask to give you a set of two natural weapons, and Martial Study (White Raven) to get a maneuver of your choice and Diplomacy as always a class skill. Follow that up with Totemist.

Not sure if I am fit for that, but I love the idea. Lemme play around a bit. We wont be getting up in levels for a while, and I think I have a compromise in mind. Maybe go 8 bard, 2 MoM, 10 prestige. I know i am losing some, but i like the RP in it. Thanks for the advice.