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View Full Version : Optimization Sorcerer Spy Question



Jarlhen
2017-03-22, 10:13 AM
We're level 12. We run with Kryx's expanded spell list for sorcerers as well as the bonus spells. Nothing else though. I've decided to make a spy (subtle spell for the win). Honestly, subtle spell is the one and only reason I went sorcerer. So if anyone has ideas on how to make a spell caster better feel free to suggest other builds. But as it stands right now he's a red dragon sorcerer level 12. He gets the following bonus spells:

1st absorb elements, burning hands -
3rd alarm, scorching ray -
5th fear, fireball -
7th elemental bane, wall of fire -
9th dominate person, cone of cold -

Cantrips: Light (will change this probably, need something that's not fire), Firebolt, message, mend, prestidigitation, friends, control flame (bonus)

He has chosen the following spells:
1 - Shield
2 - Detect Thoughts
3 - Counterspell,
4 - Greater Invis, polymorph, Leomund's secret chest
5 - Seeming, Modify Memory, Wall of Force, Teleportation Circle, passwall
6 - Magic Jar,

He also has ritual caster wizard where he was given the following spells:
Comprehend Languages, Find Familiar
Rary's telepathic bond, feign death
Illusory Script, magic mouth, dwarmij's instant summons

The idea is that the bonus spells cover the adventuring part. Dungeons and explosions and stuff. The selected spells, with support from the wizard rituals, help him do his job of being a top-notch spy. I picked Subtle Spell, Twinned Spell, and probably Quicken Spell for metamagic.

So I ask the community, how can this be improved upon? Even with the bonus spells, only getting to pick 12 spells at this level is difficult as heck.

Laserlight
2017-03-22, 10:10 PM
I hate to see a cantrip list that doesn't include Minor Illusion.

Corran
2017-03-22, 10:42 PM
The idea is that the bonus spells cover the adventuring part. Dungeons and explosions and stuff. The selected spells, with support from the wizard rituals, help him do his job of being a top-notch spy. I picked Subtle Spell, Twinned Spell, and probably Quicken Spell for metamagic.

So I ask the community, how can this be improved upon? Even with the bonus spells, only getting to pick 12 spells at this level is difficult as heck.
Spells not in your current list that can make you even better at spying, include and are not limited to the following:
Invisibility, comprehend languages, alter self (or disguise self if you invest in the actor feat), darkvision (if you play a race that doesn't get it), spider climb, enhance ability (dex and cha), suggestion, charm person, dominate person, clairvoyance, fly, polymorph (into a small incospicuous animal), seeming, gaseous form, dimension door, true seeing, etherealness, teleport, time stop, wish, and many more. Just see which ones you can make the most of and pick/retrain accordingly.

Sadly, you dont have access to arcane eye and scrying, which are fantastic spells for that sort of thing.
It's also a shame that you dont get things like modify memory too. Stuff like that can work really well for characters with the purpose of acquiring information in a discrete fashion.

A dip in rogue for a couple of expertised skills (deception persuasion perhaps) and thieves' tools (if you dont already have them from background), could help here too. Though this is only if the DM places a lot of emphasis and makes frequent use of skill checks.

Make the best out of subtle. Spells like suggestion and charm person (even some higher level ones, like the power words, which are generally considered a bit meh), make good use of this metamagic.

Question: How did you get access to modify memory? Pretty sure it isn't in the sorcerer's spell list, though afb and I might be wrong. Also, magic jar??? Nvm.

EvilAnagram
2017-03-23, 01:18 PM
You aren't getting the full use of a sorcerer spy without Heightened Spell and Suggestion.

solidork
2017-03-23, 03:29 PM
Every time I read the sorcerer class and I get to Subtle Spell, I think "But what about Subtle Suggestion?" and for a brief moment the clouds part and a golden light surrounds me and I can hear the chorus of a thousand angels singing hymns about what kind of ridiculous shenanigans you can pull off.