Flurry of Blows plus Cleave

[ErebusVonMori]

When you kill someone partway through a Flurry of Blows, do you have to use the Cleave as the next attack and if so do you lose the rest of the Flurry?

[Darrin]

When you kill someone partway through a Flurry of Blows, do you have to use the Cleave as the next attack


The text of the feat says "immediate", so yes, if you want to be a stickler for RAW, it would happen before you finish the rest of your Flurry.

However, in practice, I don't see any functional difference if you want to wait until you finish the Flurry. The only complication I could see is if one of your subsequent Flurry attacks kills/drops the only possible target for your Cleave attack.



and if so do you lose the rest of the Flurry?

No. Since your Cleave attack uses the same weapon, there's nothing involved in making the Cleave attack that would violate the restrictions on Flurry.

[KillianHawkeye]

You do have to use Cleave right away if you want to use it (at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the enemy), but it doesn't interfere with any other attacks you can make. It is a free bonus attack.

[ErebusVonMori]

Okay, now what if I add Spring Attack to the mix to make the distance, does this just work up to the point I use up my move for the round? This is especially pertinent for pbp as at an actual table you can just do it a roll at a time.

[Darrin]

Okay, now what if I add Spring Attack to the mix to make the distance, does this just work up to the point I use up my move for the round? This is especially pertinent for pbp as at an actual table you can just do it a roll at a time.

I'm not sure what you mean by adding Spring Attack. Spring Attack is a move action that gets interrupted by an attack action. Unless you're doing something wonky with the action economy, you can't mix Spring Attack with Flurry, because you generally can't combine a full round action with Spring Attack.

However, as far as Spring Attack and Cleave goes, you would move, make your attack, activate Cleave and immediately take your free attack, and then finish your move action.

[ErebusVonMori]

Damn, I misunderstood, so by attack is means a standard action attack, damn, any feat that lets you attack and move when the attack's a full round action? Or move as a swift action?

[Darrin]

Damn, I misunderstood, so by attack is means a standard action attack, damn, any feat that lets you attack and move when the attack's a full round action? Or move as a swift action?

Well... not exactly. The text for Spring Attack says "attack action", but this actually isn't explicitly defined in the rules. There are actually two different types of "attack actions", the standard attack, and a full attack. Because of the quirky way Spring Attack is worded, you can actually use it with a full attack... *IF* you have some method to get an extra move action on your turn. The typical method is usually via the psionic power hustle, but there are other ways to get move actions (Marshall ability, Tempo bloodspike, synchronicity abuse, some White Raven maneuvers, celerity shenanigans, etc.).

Outside of hustle, there are other ways to move via a swift action: Travel Devotion, Anklets of Translocation, Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker, Abrupt Jaunt ACF, dimension hop power, Sudden Leap maneuver, and so forth. Person_Man made a list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?103358) way back when. This usually allows you to "move + full attack" on your turn. However, most of these don't work with Spring Attack because they aren't actually a "move action".

Hustle is ideal to use with Spring Attack because it's a swift action to activate, and it gives you an actual move action. Easiest way to get it into your build is probably an Ardent dip with the Freedom mantle. Ardent 3 works without requiring an additional feat, or you can cut it down to Ardent 2 with Practiced Manifester in between levels.

[ErebusVonMori]

Yes but if I read Spring Attack correctly, I just have to be able to move, not necessarily take a move action, which I know is a fine distinction but this is 3.5 RAW :belkar:

[Darrin]

Yes but if I read Spring Attack correctly, I just have to be able to move, not necessarily take a move action, which I know is a fine distinction but this is 3.5 RAW :belkar:

Well, you're correct. Spring Attack doesn't specify a move action. So... try Travel Devotion (Complete Champion) via a Cloistered Cleric 1 dip. Draconic deity Io (Travel and Magic domains) might work well here.

[nyjastul69]

Yes but if I read Spring Attack correctly, I just have to be able to move, not necessarily take a move action, which I know is a fine distinction but this is 3.5 RAW :belkar:

Ways to move as a swift action that spring to mind are, the Travel Devotion Domain feat (CC), Anklet of Translocation (MIC) and Belt of Battle (MIC).

[KillianHawkeye]

Anklet of Translocation

Teleportation doesn't count as movement, since you're essentially arriving at a new destination WITHOUT moving through the intervening space. Spring Attack won't let you attack someone as you're teleporting by.

[ErebusVonMori]

But Chronocharm will.

[nyjastul69]

Teleportation doesn't count as movement, since you're essentially arriving at a new destination WITHOUT moving through the intervening space. Spring Attack won't let you attack someone as you're teleporting by.

Is that from the FAQ regarding the skirmish rules, or is it RC stealth errata?