Do you wanna build an Airship? (5e)

[MintyNinja]

Hey folks,

I've been wracking my brain for a bit and trying to come up with a viable airship schematic for 5th edition. I would like very much to use as little magic as possible, or to limit things to premade magic items found in the DMG.

There seems to be several factors at play here:
Lift
Push
Steering
Weight
Cost

Lift
The best I've been able to think of has been heated air trapped in balloons bringing the entire thing up. Trapping and finding lighter than air gasses seems incredibly complicated and dangerous.

Push
I think I'm stuck on sails here. Or cranked turbines. A series of pulleys and axes that in turn spin a large fan blade out the back and/or towards a sail at the front. Possibly useful for smaller craft.

Steering
I might be stuck in my modern sensibilities here but I'm stuck on wings and rudders. Even then, what materials, how effective at turning a craft of what weight and such questions have me doubting.

Weight
The real problem with weight is the materials added to the craft to improve it must also account for their own weight. I'm a bit stumped here.

Cost
A good and proper tabulation of creation costs and how useful such a thing would actually be in a given world compared to the dangers inherent within.



But don't let me limit you, Playground. I would like to see something achievable and what's the lowest level possible to build it.

[Bahamut7]

An Airship (or spaceship) is always my character's "I win" goal. I achieve this I could care less where the campaign goes.

As for construction, it really depends on your setting and character's knowledge. Most Airships are simply boats slightly modified that utilize Air Elementals to lift and propel. An enterprising Artificer could make them more stable and less dependent on Magic (that should be chaotic and not always reliable).

As for normal adventurers barring Artificers and Summoners, heated air could be done with a Mage's power or a Rod that can cast Burning hands. I would have multiple set up so that the others can recharge and of course used sparingly. Following this theme, some Rods that cast a Force type spell could be used to propel the ship and some front mounted ones to reverse the ship or slow it down (but this may be too much Meta gaming).

Standard sail ships can offer proper steering methods known to anyone with a Sailor type background.

The weight could be an issue for a Hot Air Balloon type. This would not a be a cargo type ship. It would be equivalent to Passenger Van in terms of transport and cargo. You can do a little, but not much more.

5e is limited on Magic items so the cost with the Rods could be quite high. Item Creation rules are limited and vague from what I remember.

If I could choose how it worked, I would use most of 4e's item creation rules with the Artificer having those particular abilities, find a good ship that a retiring captain is looking to get rid of...or commandeer one, reinforce the ship, and over time convert it into an airship. Story wise this would by the House of Lyrandar's early days.

[rhouck]

FYI there is an airship in Storm King's Thunder, chapter 4.

It contains a schematic, including details on (1) how it stays up, (2) how it moves/steers, (3) how it can be damaged/repaired (including cost), etc. The only magic involved is an air elemental and a fire elemental.

Schematic:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/gw_rssimagefull/102960320-4.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/gw_rssimagefull/102960320-2.jpg

There is a lot more info in the book. Worth a look for some 5e-based inspiration.

[Unoriginal]

Use the largest Carpet of Flying, that can support a maximum of 1600lbs. Nail one into the hull of a ship that's weighting less than 500 lbs, and you have your flying ship, which then moves with the sails. You can also use more than one carpet.


Alternatively, use Air Elementals (they can carry 210 lbs per elementals)


Or, you could buy an elephant, put Winged Boots on it, then use it to pull your ship in the sky. Because it'd be awesome.

[MintyNinja]

SNIP

I had no idea. I haven't been able to play that yet and that looks pretty cool. My questions would come from what keeps said elementals there and under control?

[Unoriginal]

FYI there is an airship in Storm King's Thunder, chapter 4.

It contains a schematic, including details on (1) how it stays up, (2) how it moves/steers, (3) how it can be damaged/repaired (including cost), etc. The only magic involved is an air elemental and a fire elemental.

Schematic:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/gw_rssimagefull/102960320-4.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/gw_rssimagefull/102960320-2.jpg

There is a lot more info in the book. Worth a look for some 5e-based inspiration.

This airship makes me think of Bombastus's Moon Ship in "de Capes et de Crocs"

[Seclora]

Back in 3,5, the Eberron setting had Airships that used Air Elementals to function. They also had a lovely semi-magical component, floatwood. It was literally wood that was lighter than air. It would be rare, but you could make a quest out of harvesting enough to build your hull out of it. That ought to cover the weight and lift.

Sails work for propulsion, if you want to keep the magic down, but there's also the option of using a hand crank screw attached to rear propellers[Impellers?] and powered by a bunch of NPCs nobody wants to think too hard about. For the propellers and a slightlyt higher magic option, consider using Prestidigitation's 'heat/cool inanimate matter' function and create one of these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine). Three or Four High Elves with the right cantrip choice could power the engine any time you needed it on without even a magic item.

I honestly can't come up with much more than rudders and sails for steering.

Obviously, the whole thing will be quite expensive, probably on par with a very Rare or even Legendary magic item. It will also need more maintenance, or the crew will anyways. Strangely, people expect to be paid for their work. I'd make it more of a quest than a price tag though.

[tieren]

An interesting steering idea might be a set of pneumatic tubes leading from the steering station off to different sides of the ship that a caster could pump gust cantrips through for thruster type steering.

[Joe the Rat]

Schematic:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/gw_rssimagefull/102960320-4.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/gw_rssimagefull/102960320-2.jpg

There is a lot more info in the book. Worth a look for some 5e-based inspiration.

The 3d model version is fantastic as well (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/events/pax-2014-live-game).

Some other options:

LIFT: Magic. Basic telekinesis, levitation/flotation, elementals, special materials. You could also go the helicarrier route and have massive propellers to provide lift. You could get a bunch of undead flyers. Plants: Gas spores float - a scaled up and less self-destructive version could carry you off.

Push and Steering: Magic. Your Spellhelm, to levirod, or whatever lifts you also steers you. Maneuvering jets. Gust. If you are going for more airSHIP, then you always have the option of sail/rudders - How you move in the wind, and how you maneuver are both managed by adjusting your trim. Self-propelled airships, if they are operating on mechanical prinicples alone, will use rudders. Just like real airships do.


I have a late game plan that requires flight, and I have been seeding the game (in one case literally) with ways to fly. Sky elves are biotech/"seedpunk" masters, using plant based air foils, and liftbags which are essentially modified seed pods that inflate with hydrogen. Giants had their flying castles, which used a special sort of marble that when harnessed to air and water elementals generates lift. A recurring villain is trying to build one. There are natural flyers that are large enough to be mounts or teamed. Haul your boat up with airbag, then release the gargoyles.

[RumoCrytuf]

Hey folks,

I've been wracking my brain for a bit and trying to come up with a viable airship schematic for 5th edition. I would like very much to use as little magic as possible, or to limit things to premade magic items found in the DMG.

There seems to be several factors at play here:
Lift
Push
Steering
Weight
Cost

Lift
The best I've been able to think of has been heated air trapped in balloons bringing the entire thing up. Trapping and finding lighter than air gasses seems incredibly complicated and dangerous.

Push
I think I'm stuck on sails here. Or cranked turbines. A series of pulleys and axes that in turn spin a large fan blade out the back and/or towards a sail at the front. Possibly useful for smaller craft.

Steering
I might be stuck in my modern sensibilities here but I'm stuck on wings and rudders. Even then, what materials, how effective at turning a craft of what weight and such questions have me doubting.

Weight
The real problem with weight is the materials added to the craft to improve it must also account for their own weight. I'm a bit stumped here.

Cost
A good and proper tabulation of creation costs and how useful such a thing would actually be in a given world compared to the dangers inherent within.



But don't let me limit you, Playground. I would like to see something achievable and what's the lowest level possible to build it.

Final Fantasy IX... enough said :P.

In all honesty though, I see a mixture of magic and steampunk being the most viable option (World of Warcraft and FFIX airships can serve as a base for concept.) . Have a Blimp like thing with propellers to keep it moving. Do you have steam power in your campaign? If so, the world is your oyster.

Turning it would probably use some sort of sail that can be deployed and retracted quickly.

Cost? That really depends on your campaign. Are Airships a luxury for the rich? Or commonplace and safer for travel than by land?

Level? Like, are your players building one? (assuming you're the DM) I wouldn't put an actual level limit, but their funding, as a baseline for building their own airships (which of course, brings all the dangers of Flying monsters with it >:D )

[Beleriphon]

You can also go with this:


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c9/a5/11/c9a5118c5781333d2eae00432f309380.jpg

[swoop_ds]

You can also go with this:


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c9/a5/11/c9a5118c5781333d2eae00432f309380.jpg


My mind is blown.

[Beleriphon]

My mind is blown.

I know, that's not even one of the better pictures. Or quite frankly one of the larger ones in the setting. There's an adventure that features a skyship The Golden Dragon, and its floating cruise ship at thre decks and nearly 250-feet (75 metres) long

[Asmotherion]

Wile I know this is not exactly what the thread is about, this is my homebrew take on Airships; This is Eberon Specific though.

In order to be able to obtain, control and maintain an Airship, you need a Caster (Ususally a Wizard Artificer) with access to Conjure Elemental/Conjure Minor Elementals, Magic Cyrcle and Planar Binding.

To control an airboat (a small air vessel that can lift a maximum of 1200 lbs excluding it's own weight), a minor air or fire elemental are enough. For a Ship you need to use the Conjure Elemental Spell and might need more than one elemental depending on the ship's size. By controling said elemental, it's body moves to manipulate mechanic parts in the aircraft, and it functions both as fuel and as a defance mechanism (Attacking creatures or objects designated by the caster in and around the ship to the best of it's ability). There is a steering weel and two levers (one for intensity of the propelling machines to go forward and one for controlling height) that manually controls mechanic parts (the elemental ring's possition in most cases).

This makes magic represent only the fuel used and acts as the means to an alternative energy source in a technologically prominant world, rather than justifying everything as "because magic".

[kenposan]

This is how I see airships if I allow them in my game

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/98/cc/8f/98cc8fa9dab5453be1615e096a103584.jpg

[Beleriphon]

This is how I see airships if I allow them in my game

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/98/cc/8f/98cc8fa9dab5453be1615e096a103584.jpg

Spoilered the image, so I don't quote the whole thing.

That looks a lot like the airship from Stardust, at least in the one in the movie.

[Herobizkit]

There's also slave labour.

Like, a bunch of Warforged* ceaselessly turning cranks to produce a helicopter-type deal. They don't need to eat, sleep or rest.

*Or Skeletons. ^_^

[Sigreid]

Steal the control orb from a cloud giant flying castle and talk your DM into letting you install it on a ship.

[Malifice]

I wanna build a snowman.

Maybe I'll let it go.

[Kuu Lightwing]

I wanna build a snowman.

Maybe I'll let it go.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought about that. :)

[Temperjoke]

More spoiler info regarding the airship from SKT

The airship has two containers that have been enchanted to contain/restrain the particular elementals. One container, for the fire elemental has a lever that opens a vent to direct the fire elemental's heat into the balloon, affecting how much lift it has by controlling how open the vent is. Regardless of how open the vent is, the magic built into the container/furnace keeps the elemental trapped inside.

The other container directs an air elemental's wind through a valve to turn a propeller, which pushes the balloon forward, and has levers to affect the flow of air through the valve. The levers control how fast the balloon goes by controlling how much air goes through the valve, and the direction the propeller faces, allowing for right/left turns.

The only trade off is that it's not terribly fast in the book, and because it's a hot air balloon, it's subject to powerful wind. On the bright side, it's a lot less esoteric than many airship designs, aside from the spells built to hold the fire and air elementals. It might be good as an entry level model for them, that they trade for a more expensive version that they buy from a more powerful person later?

[Malifice]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought about that. :)

I literally read the thread title to the tune of the song.

[Asmotherion]

There's also slave labour.

Like, a bunch of Warforged* ceaselessly turning cranks to produce a helicopter-type deal. They don't need to eat, sleep or rest.

*Or Skeletons. ^_^

Well theoretically speaking, trapping an elemental and using it's body as fuel is no more ethical than slavery per say... The only thing that makes it a bit more ethical is that Genies and other more sentient elementals do this to humanoids all the time, so at least you're not oppresing their culture :P

On the up side having a skeleton Crew seems so theumatic for a Pirat Air Ship.

[Unoriginal]

Well theoretically speaking, trapping an elemental and using it's body as fuel is no more ethical than slavery per say... The only thing that makes it a bit more ethical is that Genies and other more sentient elementals do this to humanoids all the time, so at least you're not oppresing their culture :P

On the up side having a skeleton Crew seems so theumatic for a Pirat Air Ship.

Having a skeleton crew is a terrible idea. It'll lead to mutiny as soon as the caster lose control or is too weakened to resist the undead.

[Sigreid]

Having a skeleton crew is a terrible idea. It'll lead to mutiny as soon as the caster lose control or is too weakened to resist the undead.

Zombies created with finger of death would be better as there's no risk of loosing control. You just need to be willing to murder a village or two.

[Demonslayer666]

Is it bad that I read the title of this thread and heard the song from frozen, "Do you wanna build a snowman?"

...it doesn't have to be an airship...

[MintyNinja]

I wanna build a snowman.

Maybe I'll let it go.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought about that. :)


I literally read the thread title to the tune of the song.


Is it bad that I read the title of this thread and heard the song from frozen, "Do you wanna build a snowman?"

...it doesn't have to be an airship...

Do you honestly think that wasn't on purpose? C'mon, who's not imagining a Gnomish Bard / Tinkerer?
[Cue someone more imaginative than me to rewrite said song from that character's perspective.]

[Knaight]

There's also slave labour.

Like, a bunch of Warforged* ceaselessly turning cranks to produce a helicopter-type deal. They don't need to eat, sleep or rest.

I'm not liking the mass to power ratio here though - turning cranks at a human pace has nothing on constantly emitting fire even at a level comparable to a torch in terms of power put into the system, there's just not a lot of potential for lift. A skeleton or warforged could use something like a one person pedal plane pretty much indefinitely, but that's about it.

[Temperjoke]

I don't know that using elementals is actually slavery though. The Monster Manual says that "Like beasts of the Material Plane, these elemental spirits have no society or culture, and little sense of being." So maybe they are tamed, and could be mistreated by evil individuals, but I'm not sure that it constitutes slavery. At least, not what is commonly viewed as slavery. More like having work horses on a farm.

[Sigreid]

I don't know that using elementals is actually slavery though. The Monster Manual says that "Like beasts of the Material Plane, these elemental spirits have no society or culture, and little sense of being." So maybe they are tamed, and could be mistreated by evil individuals, but I'm not sure that it constitutes slavery. At least, not what is commonly viewed as slavery. More like having work horses on a farm.

They are intelligent and use language. Your argument is actually disturbingly close to what has been used as a justification for slavery for millennium "the way they live is no better than animals. In exchange for a little labor they are getting the benefits of civilization"

[Temperjoke]

They are intelligent and use language. Your argument is actually disturbingly close to what has been used as a justification for slavery for millennium "the way they live is no better than animals. In exchange for a little labor they are getting the benefits of civilization"

I quoted the Monster Manual word for word for the Elementals listing, and my statement was based on that. It's page 123 of the Monster Manual. I'm not referring to the general creature type known as elemental, which includes Galeb Duhr, various types of Genies, and Mephits.

At the same time, that would be an interesting plot hook. Common knowledge says the elementals used in this sort of craft are mindless animals, but the players encounter one asking for help, what do they do?

[Sigreid]

I quoted the Monster Manual word for word for the Elementals listing, and my statement was based on that. It's page 123 of the Monster Manual. I'm not referring to the general creature type known as elemental, which includes Galeb Duhr, various types of Genies, and Mephits.

At the same time, that would be an interesting plot hook. Common knowledge says the elementals used in this sort of craft are mindless animals, but the players encounter one asking for help, what do they do?

Yep, but at the same time while they are listed as having intelligence in the 5-6 range they are also listed as having a language, which implies some kind of sense of self and ability to communicate.

[Temperjoke]

Yep, but at the same time while they are listed as having intelligence in the 5-6 range they are also listed as having a language, which implies some kind of sense of self and ability to communicate.

It's an interesting contradiction. It doesn't specify whether they can speak it or not, but it implies it. It could be listed for Druid Wild Shape or other transformation purposes, as opposed to the creature's own use. They are also not as intelligent as some of the beasts, like Giant Eagles, which speak "Giant Eagle" and understand Common.

[Unoriginal]

Not really a contradiction. This:


Elementals are incarnations of the elements that make up the universe: air, earth, fire, and water. Though little more than animated energy on their own planes of existence, they can be called on by spellcasters and powerful beings to take shape and perform tasks.
Living Elements. On its home plane, an elemental is a bodiless life force. Its dim consciousness manifests as a physical shape only when focused by the power of magic. A wild spirit of elemental force has no desire except to course through the element of its native plane. Like beasts of the Material Plane, these elemental spirits have no society or culture, and little sense of being.

is about Elementals on their own Plane of existence. The text implies that native, wild Elementals are vague spirits with little to no consciousness, and that the statblock we have are not for wild Elementals, but for when the entities are shaped by magic to perform a task.

[Vogonjeltz]

I've been wracking my brain for a bit and trying to come up with a viable airship schematic for 5th edition.

The cost is listed on DMG 119

Did you just want a way to describe it then?

I'd model it on the airship in the Lone Wolf series (or most other fantasy concepts) where it's a dirigible with a sailing ship attached, so if I recall correctly, it's entirely non-magical, just a blimp with a ship rigged to it.

Don't stress about weight or other stats at all, just go with the stats in the DMG.

[MintyNinja]

The cost is listed on DMG 119

Did you just want a way to describe it then?

I'd model it on the airship in the Lone Wolf series (or most other fantasy concepts) where it's a dirigible with a sailing ship attached, so if I recall correctly, it's entirely non-magical, just a blimp with a ship rigged to it.

Don't stress about weight or other stats at all, just go with the stats in the DMG.

I know there's a cost in the DMG and all that, but where's the fun in building something interesting with the intersection of engineering and magic and fantasy settings? I think I may have missed my own point earlier and I should mention that it's more interesting to BUILD something. Take an idea, apply engineering, physics, and luck, then try again. For example, I had it in my head to build a hoverboat looking thing with a turn-crank propeller and retractable wings, but there wasn't any cargo involved and the balance looked off. You can say something's 3,000 gp this or just get an Air elemental do make it work all you want, but none of that is interesting. .