Combining two parties to combat a higher level threat...?

[Vectros]

So the gist of it is, the players have 2 different parties; party A went through a story, but came across a group of enemies they were not capable of defeating. Most of the party at this point was wanting to roll some new characters, so it was agreed that these characters would be gathering allies/following/preparing to face this group. So they've been using a (mostly) new party for the past 4 sessions, but a couple players are expressing interest in the old party.

So I'm thinking it could be cool to have the two parties meet and face the threat together. The question then becomes, after the battle, each player will have 2 characters, how do I deal with that? I don't want to run around with 9 characters (there's 1 NPC with them right now), any ideas on how I could close this out? Bear in mind, the old party was pursuing this group, the new party is currently after a separate (undead) threat, so if I decide to let them roll with the old party I'll have to come up with a sensical reason for them to A)pursue this new threat and B) NOT stay with the new party.

[djreynolds]

So the gist of it is, the players have 2 different parties; party A went through a story, but came across a group of enemies they were not capable of defeating. Most of the party at this point was wanting to roll some new characters, so it was agreed that these characters would be gathering allies/following/preparing to face this group. So they've been using a (mostly) new party for the past 4 sessions, but a couple players are expressing interest in the old party.

So I'm thinking it could be cool to have the two parties meet and face the threat together. The question then becomes, after the battle, each player will have 2 characters, how do I deal with that? I don't want to run around with 9 characters (there's 1 NPC with them right now), any ideas on how I could close this out? Bear in mind, the old party was pursuing this group, the new party is currently after a separate (undead) threat, so if I decide to let them roll with the old party I'll have to come up with a sensical reason for them to A)pursue this new threat and B) NOT stay with the new party.

Did they win the battle? Or are you assuming they won? Perhaps the parties go their separate ways or split up again to fight new enemies and perhaps even some change ranks.

Like Party A had a rogue who died and party B has 2 or whatever. Maybe the paladin choose a different mission

[Vectros]

I'm assuming they would win...though I plan to run some mock battles on my own first to simulate it.

Would you say in a case like this, having 2-3 casualties would be ok, given its a group of enemies not originally intended to be fought yet (for reference, the group is 5 enemies with CR6-8 range; all party members are currently at 6 or will be 6 next session, and their old party will level with them-making it 8 level 6+a level 3 NPC vs 5 CR 6-8)? This probably sounds ridiculous, but I found the old party, via mock battles, was able to take down 2 of them before wiping while still level 4-5. Again, I need to do tests, but I think the group might be able to pull it off.

[LeonBH]

I think you should kill the old party or the new party. Make them choose which one to keep. With a party of 8 level 6 PC's and a level 3 NPC, they have enough XP in their budget to kill something that is CR 19 (in theory, but of course not necessarily in practice). This means you can throw a lot of strong things at them.

I can already feel the tediousness of this battle, too. So many people taking so many turns... the quicker the PCs die, the sooner you can remove pieces from the board :)

[Beechgnome]

I've had success running both parties separately. But it's a bit complicated.

I have a campaign where I had the players roll backup characters and then I split the main party up, with each going to an Upper Plane. (Each was sent to a plane that was the opposite of their alignment, so the CN thief went to Mechanus, CG trickster cleric sent to Hell, etc).

To keep the solo adventures interesting for everyone, I paired each solo character with another player's backups, and gave the other players control of the monsters. (Being a bugbear in Acheron is fun, so I am told).

Eventually, the main characters were able to open portals to send them back - although one player asked to switch which character got sent back. But I was left with the decision: what to do with the other backup characters?

The answer was to have each of them end up as planeswalkers, hopping from one plane to the next to perform mini-tasks relevant to the plot. (They are getting 'help' doing so from some hags.)

Now, whenever we don't have enough players to run the main campaign - say, only two of the guys can show up - then I whip up a mini-adventure for the remaining two backups and 'pop' they are now in Mount Celestia, performing some side quest.

Because each of these mini-quests inevitably ends with the characters jumping through a portal, I've been able to mix and match these players in diverse ways.

For example, I had one night where one of 4 players wasn't able to come, so I ran the other three through a Hateful-Eight scenario in Gehenna. The next night, only the player who missed the previous session and one of the other guys was able to come, so I had them meet for an adventure in Pandemonium, with Vargouilles, Xvarts and GOO Warlocks aplenty as they tried to catch a ferry on the River Styx.

Whenever we are all able to play, we play the main campaign.

It's a way to get around the unruliness of having too big a party, while also giving you a practical real-world solution to the challenge of getting everyone at the table. My friends and I all have young children, so it was flexibility we needed.

[LeonBH]

Sounds like a great campaign, Beechgnome. It's a neat solution to the inevitability of people being unable to attend sessions to play. How often do you all get together? And how often of those do you play the main campaign?

[Beechgnome]

Sounds like a great campaign, Beechgnome. It's a neat solution to the inevitability of people being unable to attend sessions to play. How often do you all get together? And how often of those do you play the main campaign?

Generally we get together only once every two weeks - between the five of us we have 12 kids, so not too many opportunities. So if someone can't make it or goes on vacation, that's when we go to plan B.

It goes in spurts. We may play the regular campaign for months without visiting the planes. But during the summer, it may be more of those games. Keeping track of time/concurrency is not a big deal, since I've already established that time flows differently on the planes.

(Early on the thief in Mechanus saw a portal with him on the other side. There was also a Modron winking at him on his side, and an insight check revealed that the Modron was him in disguise. Naturally I had him roll an Intelligence saving throw to avoid short-term madness).

[Vectros]

An idea I thought of today...party B (the current party) comes to a cave where one of the Necromancers is believed to be in hiding. They see a switch/lever next to a semi-hidden door. They pull the lever, nothing happens...

...Shift to Party A, whom have heard that the big bad group they're pursuing is in this cave. They might have a brief scuffle outside before finding a door-that opens shortly after they approach it. Moving inside, they come to a second door, with a lever. They pull it...

Party B's door suddenly opens without discernible reason. They enter, and after a brief fight, discover a puzzle. They solve the puzzle, revealing a hidden entrance...

Party A's door opens. They walk down a hallway for a few minutes, before coming to a large chamber. They can see a large chamber, with the big bad group in it-and 4 strangers on the other side...

Party B sees 5 figures in a chamber whom they don't recognize, but don't exactly appear kind-except for one character, the Paladin, whom is originally part of party A. He can easily explain to party B why they should fight the big bad group, and now the 2 forces join to combat them.

After (presumably) defeating the group, one of them lets slip through interrogation that to enter the final chamber (where their leader is, whom party A already knows of), 5 souls will be needed to break the barrier. There are 5 platforms (which the big bad group normally uses) which if a living soul is on each, will open the final chamber-but it's a very draining task, that could kill someone if they stay too long!

NPC volunteers to be one, but 4 more are needed....

What do you guys think? It'll set up for a 4 man fight vs the actual boss (well, not the boss of the entire arc, but has been known throughout the campaign since the previous story).

[Vectros]

Hoping to get some input on this latest idea

[LeonBH]

It will be tedious, managing the scene transition from party to party. But it seems decent if you can pull it off well.

I suggest don't say "it might kill them if they stay too long"; say it will kill them. But if nobody performs the sacrifice, they all die. This forces their choice. If you allow the chance that their character survives, they might put in the character they want to live, betting on the hope he lives, and then witness him die.

[CaptainSarathai]

I second Tanarii.
First, I think that having them swap back and forth between the two parties during their mission will be fine. Have Group A pull a lever, and Group B suddenly sees a door open. That could be a lot of fun. Maybe time-consuming, so I'd let that be a session on its own, to leave as much time as possible for the boss fight. Because it will take a LONG time. We had a party of 7, at one point, and fights took forever.

However, after the fight, let the survivors do as they please. I am usually quite flexible with my players swapping characters in and out of the action. In fact, I usually write my campaigns with certain "switching points" in mind.
My current campaign is a sort of Arthurian "questing knights" feel, in a fantasy version of Britain. It is laid out seasonally, with most adventurers spending the winter by holding court in the various castles. These are great switching points, as at spring time a character might decide to abandon one quest for another, and a new character joins the cause in their place.
There are also many times that there is a gathering of knights. From tournaments and large hunting trips, to various wartime encampments. Sometimes, a lone knight or small party of knights will bump into each other in the wilds. These are all chances to switch. Even mid-quest.

You could do the same with your group forming an adventuring guild. Every so often they return to the guild for a new mission, or maybe the guild even uses magic to teleport the characters in and out of action, a'la Fable.

[Vectros]

I don't really have anything against grabbing new characters so long as it makes sense when we do it-IE, they aren't known to be on a quest of their own at this time. We tend to come up with something they're doing in the meantime, like "I'm going to train to be a better monk" that allows them to be grabbed at almost any point. Though the party already knows and has agreed we'd swap back to the original party when I felt the time was right.