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Zarrexaij
2007-07-26, 09:17 PM
I'm homebrewing the xenomorphs from the Alien movies, and I'm a bit torn on what sort of save the base creature (I'm making the types in the movies, as well as the AvP games) should take for making a headbite. Should it be Reflex, Fortitude, or something else?

It's an instant-death sorta attack, and I really don't think you can make a Fortitude save against something going through your brain. I'm also puzzled on what the result should be against with type of AC, considering it's aimed straight at the head. Would it be normal AC?

Other than that I'm pretty good to go on this. I apologize if I should have asked this in homebrew... :smallredface: :smallfrown:

Arbitrarity
2007-07-26, 09:22 PM
Still a fort save probably, seeing as you shouldn't be able to resist being turned into dust. Reflex doesn't work, cause if it hits, you're dead, and that's covered by AC. Will makes no sense at all.

Zarrexaij
2007-07-26, 09:23 PM
You wouldn't be turned to dust; a secondary jaw would go through your brains, effectively killing you (or at least rendering you permanently mentally handicapped). :P

Which is a pretty hard thing to resist (with Fortitude) if it hit you, in my opinion.

BardicDuelist
2007-07-26, 09:29 PM
You could make it somthing similar to what mindflayers do, like require a grapple check, then to hit with a bite attack. If these suceed, the character dies.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-26, 09:30 PM
High save DC. Look, you can survive a spell that turns you into dust, you can survive holes in your head. Not to mention you can survive massive damage, banshee's, basilisks, etc.

Course, you could just make it a massively damaging attack, only usable with a pinned opponent. Yeah, mindflayers are a good base here.

Zarrexaij
2007-07-26, 09:34 PM
You could make it somthing similar to what mindflayers do, like require a grapple check, then to hit with a bite attack. If these suceed, the character dies.That sounds reasonable.

I won't let my players encounter one until later. I think by the time I calculate the CR it'll be higher than I wanted it to be. Oh well...

TheLogman
2007-07-26, 09:41 PM
I agree with the Bard! Grapple seems like the best idea, since it gives the characters a chance to rip the thing off, with a successful Grapple check, which keeps in theme with the move.

Jack Mann
2007-07-26, 10:01 PM
Yeah, go with the grapple. Just don't push their grapple modifiers too hard, or it'll be near-impossible to resist. These things are probably going to be large with fair strength as it is.

I'd suggest aberration for their type. Sure, they'll have somewhat lower BAB, but that can be made up for with high strength. Since they'll be using natural attacks, iteratives don't matter. The only loss is a lessened ability to power attack, but they'd only rarely be power attacking for full anyway. Give them great fortitude as a bonus feat and a good Con (which will up the DCs for most special abilities you give them as well), and their fortitude saves will still be reasonably good.

Tokiko Mima
2007-07-26, 11:03 PM
You might also want to be careful with Freedom of Movement spells/effects if you go the grapple route. It would make the headbite impossible to land, so you might want to houserule it unusable for this campaign.

PsyBlade
2007-07-26, 11:06 PM
PM Kython. He'll give you a good creature to use as a base.

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-26, 11:20 PM
I'd just make it a sneak attack of sorts. Any creature attacked with the little head is treated as sneak attacked by a dagger for a medium creature, and if the creature can be sneak attacked, it takes 4d6 more damage. For the purposes of uncanny dodge, have the xenomorph's HD count as levels of rogue for that purpose only.

Funkyodor
2007-07-27, 03:18 AM
We've done aliens for 2nd ed. before. We had it so that they always got to attack first in H2H, They ignored set to receive charge. If you were surprised, they could force a save vs death or you're incapacitated/dead (They want you alive for breeding purposes if applicapable). They always kept their dex to AC. Double damage from fire but side effect of acid spray. Acid causes permenant damage to weapons on a hit or spray (save or removal of +1 magic / equivalent ability from weapon/armor). The only way to take them out safely ended up being electric or cold damage at range, or alot of acid resistant gear.

3.5 Adaptations? Uh, pounce. Evasion & Improved evasion. Permenant Haste. Hide in plain sight. Ability to do that save or dead thing in the Surprise round only (however you want to do it, grapple attempts, CON sneak attak damage, whatever). Double damage from fire, or causes random movement / actions. Automatic Sunder attempt whenever they are hit representing acid spray (Weapons, armor, whatever). Players should be scared to meet these guys, not because they are difficult to kill but because they cause so much damage to their surroundings when they die.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to include their vision means. Life sense. If target is living then immunity to some magical concealment types (I.E. Invisibility, Mirror Image, Blur, etc...).