Possible Help for Four Elements Monk

[WaggleDagger]

So the Four Elements Monk has trouble with Ki because their disciplines chew through resources way too fast. I have a possible fix that I'm allowing a player to use. (They are disappointed with the subclass but love the flavor)

Primal Aspect
As you delve into the disciplines of elemental powers, you unlock a deeper reservoir of Ki.

Starting at 3rd level when you choose this discipline, you gain 3 elemental Ki points. These points can only be spent on elemental disciplines. You gain another 3 elemental Ki points at 6th level (6), 11th level (9), and 17th level (12).

[DivisibleByZero]

A common house rule is that 4Ele monks get +WisMod to their Ki pool. That seems to keep them competitive as the one-third caster that they're supposed to be (like the EK and AT).

[dejarnjc]

Your fix would probably work out just fine and I kind of like it.


A lot of people like the unofficial Way of the Four Elements Remastered version https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1pdYIcfHauwNDM2My1XeWFYSDA/view

Some think it's a tad over powered. I haven't play tested it myself but in my opinion it's only a little over tuned.

[Vogonjeltz]

So the Four Elements Monk has trouble with Ki because their disciplines chew through resources way too fast. I have a possible fix that I'm allowing a player to use. (They are disappointed with the subclass but love the flavor)

They get Ki back on a short rest, so at 3rd level with 2 short rests in a day they'd have up to 9 ki available, that's enough to cast Burning Hands 4 times...which is the same number of 1st level slots as any of the full casting progression classes (Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard).

Better yet, there are no restrictions in the game on short rests...so they arguably can have more casting than those classes.

On what basis are you claiming they burn through ki "too fast"? Too fast for what? Certainly not too fast to get good effect from it, damage per ki ratio is highest on the spells.

[Lombra]

I think people should stop looking at 4E monk like if it is Aang from the Avatar show. You are a monk first and foremost; a melee guy who tends to punch things, plus you have the versatility of casting some cool spells for both damage and battlefield control.

[Saeviomage]

They get Ki back on a short rest, so at 3rd level with 2 short rests in a day they'd have up to 9 ki available, that's enough to cast Burning Hands 4 times...which is the same number of 1st level slots as any of the full casting progression classes (Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard).

The problem is that they lose a base class ability to do that. It's like if fighters had to spend their action surge every day to charge up the EK spell slots.


Better yet, there are no restrictions in the game on short rests...so they arguably can have more casting than those classes.

Sure... but if your DM lets you off with infinite short rests, they'll probably let you have a 5 minute workday too.


On what basis are you claiming they burn through ki "too fast"? Too fast for what? Certainly not too fast to get good effect from it, damage per ki ratio is highest on the spells.
A monk casts fireball, he deals 8d6, save for half, for 4 ki or around 28 damage.

He flurries for 1 ki. He deals 4d10+ 4 x modifier with attack rolls, or around 40 damage.

So if you want effective Ki use, I sure hope you hit ~6 targets with that fireball.


I think people should stop looking at 4E monk like if it is Aang from the Avatar show. You are a monk first and foremost; a melee guy who tends to punch things, plus you have the versatility of casting some cool spells for both damage and battlefield control.
Except if you're being the melee guy, you used up your Ki doing that. And if you were casting cool spells for damage and battlefield control, then you used up your Ki doing that. Compare with the EK who gets abilities that let him melee and cast at the same time, and don't require him to sacrifice his basic class abilities to use his spells.

[Kane0]

Agreed with Divisible, common and effective to add Wis or Prof bonus to Ki pool. Lets you be a monk and a bender without suffering severe Ki malnutrition.

[skaddix]

Yeah your subclass should not be competing with your main class so much for scarce resources.

[Lombra]

Except if you're being the melee guy, you used up your Ki doing that. And if you were casting cool spells for damage and battlefield control, then you used up your Ki doing that. Compare with the EK who gets abilities that let him melee and cast at the same time, and don't require him to sacrifice his basic class abilities to use his spells.

What ki do you spend exactly? You don't have to flurry on every round and you have the movement and the proficiencies to not have to use step of the wind whenever you want to reposition yourself. Plus you have enaugh spells to provide great alternatives to flurries or stunning strikes and to stay out of reach of the opponent when needed.

[Vogonjeltz]

The problem is that they lose a base class ability to do that. It's like if fighters had to spend their action surge every day to charge up the EK spell slots.

Or it's like say, having had spell slots to do minor effect, then getting more effects that can use those same slots.

Like if they were simply using a spell point system. The original options still exist, they just aren't as good to begin with.


Sure... but if your DM lets you off with infinite short rests, they'll probably let you have a 5 minute workday too.

It only requires 1 extra from the norm, a far cry from infinite. 1 hour is easy to come by.


A monk casts fireball, he deals 8d6, save for half, for 4 ki or around 28 damage.

He flurries for 1 ki. He deals 4d10+ 4 x modifier with attack rolls, or around 40 damage.

So if you want effective Ki use, I sure hope you hit ~6 targets with that fireball.

At level 11 it'd be 1d8+mod per ki, not 1d10+mod, but sure, the number of targets that needs to be hit is a mere 2+ to exceed the maximum value of having used the ki for flurry, not even the average of 16 by level 20. That doesn't even take into account the probability of missing which normalizes the damage dealt to significantly lower than the average roll from when it hits.

More importantly, they are used in different contexts (groups vs single target), and casting fireball in no way endangers the monk by putting them into melee combat. Those are some huge differences; too big to ignore.