How Does Thorn Whip Manifest?

[plisnithus7]

The Thorn Whip cantrip says:

"You create a long, vine-like whip covered in thorns that lashes out at your command toward a creature in range. Make a melee spell attack against the target. If the attack hits, the creature takes 1d6 piercing damage, and if the creature is Large or smaller, you pull the creature up to 10 feet closer to you."

Question: Does the whip start from the caster (hand or arcane focus) or from the ground?

How It Came Up: Aarakocra druid player wants to fly 35' above an orc, thorn whip it, drag it 10' closer (up), then drop it for falling damage.

I thought it was fairly clever and would allow it as long as it doesn't defy RAW.
He also asked it he could fly off cliff and pull orc over the edge.

[gfishfunk]

Question: Does the whip start from the caster (hand or arcane focus) or from the ground?

How It Came Up: Aarakocra druid player wants to fly 35' above an orc, thorn whip it, drag it 10' closer (up), then drop it for falling damage.

I thought it was fairly clever and would allow it as long as it doesn't defy RAW.
He also asked it he could fly off cliff and pull orc over the edge.

Answer: it manifests however you like, so long as it doesn't change the mechanics of the thing.

That is a clever use: drag up, fall down.

If he is flying above the cliff and the 10' movement pulls the orc out into open air, that would work. So, either horizontal or diagonally into the air - sure.

He cannot, however drag the orc as he flies. It doesn't allow for the whip to grab the orc, let the PC move while holding the orc, and then release when over the cliff - its just not how the spell works.

[Spellbreaker26]

Yeah, that sounds like the Rose Whip from YuYu Hakusho; the user brandishes a small amount of plant matter and it grows into a mighty whip.

[plisnithus7]

Right. I think we are saying the same thing.
Whip is instantaneous so would "interrupt" movement meaning no extra pulling beyond 10' as written.

This 1st level aarakocra druid has 20 Dex with studded armor (yes, I know) and wooden shield so 19 AC.
He casts fog cloud between himself and enemy range/casters then does his thorn whip trick.
At 2nd, he wants to Circle of the Moon from hawkman into grizzly.

[Temperjoke]

I swear I've read this exact same question somewhere else before.

At the same time, does the Aarakocra have enough strength to support both himself and the orc in the air? Otherwise, I'd imagine he'd actually be pulled towards the orc.

[plisnithus7]

I swear I've read this exact same question somewhere else before.

At the same time, does the Aarakocra have enough strength to support both himself and the orc in the air? Otherwise, I'd imagine he'd actually be pulled towards the orc.

It's magic. A small gnome (-1 STR) thorn whip caster doesn't make a Strength check to see if they can pull a large brown bear (+4 STR). It is just pulled.

[Spellbreaker26]

I swear I've read this exact same question somewhere else before.

At the same time, does the Aarakocra have enough strength to support both himself and the orc in the air? Otherwise, I'd imagine he'd actually be pulled towards the orc.

Imagine the whip as a tongue or a tentacle, it's operating under its own power.

[Ursus the Grim]

I swear I've read this exact same question somewhere else before.

At the same time, does the Aarakocra have enough strength to support both himself and the orc in the air? Otherwise, I'd imagine he'd actually be pulled towards the orc.

It shouldn't matter. Its a magical effect. My 40 lb, 6 Strength Kobold can use Thorn Whip to pull a 5000 lb, 21 Strength Rhinoceros. There's no real reason one humanoid can't use magic to lift another one when a magical effect allows for it.

Now, if, after casting the spell, the two somehow started grappling before the orc fell, now the bird would be in trouble.

Edit: Double shadow monk'd.

[plisnithus7]

Or if a druid is in the ocean and uses thorn whip on someone in a boat.
The caster isn't slammed into the boat - the whipped creature is pulled into the water.


Now, if, after casting the spell, the two somehow started grappling before the orc fell, now the bird would be in trouble.

Well, that's why the aarakocra flies 30' over the orc's head - hawkman is still 20' above the highest point that the orc rises.

And the gnome in the other example probably only pulls the grizzly closer because there is a deep pit between them.

[Tetrasodium]

h o r n W h i p
Transmutation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S, M (the stem o f a plant with thorns)
Duration: Instantaneous
You create a long, vine-like whip covered in thorns that
lashes out at your com m and toward a creature in range.
Make a m elee spell attack against the target. If the
attack hits, the creature takes 1d6 piercing damage, and
if the creature is Large or smaller, you pull the creature
up to 10 feet closer to you.
This spell’s damage increases by 1d6 w hen you reach
5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).


It doesn't matter how it manifests for purpose of the question, it could be a brief guided tear from The plane Lamania anchored to a fixed point in the prime material plane.... because... "It's magic". the spell makes no mention of strength checks like some spells, relevance of the caster's size, requirement to have ground (grasping vine "sprouts from the ground"), or anything of the like. Your dm would be within his rights to make you perform athletics/concentration type checks to juggle the spellcasting & flight, but there is no rule saying he or she has to/must/should. at best, you are dealing a extra 1d6 while dropping from d8s/d12s of produce flame/poison spray or just pulling them off a cliff they were pretty close to at the start instead of shoving them.



And the gnome in the other example probably only pulls the grizzly closer because there is a deep pit between them.

Thorn whip is a druid cantrip, druids are a medium armor+shield class. Assuming warcaster to do it with shield, the small 7 str gnome or small -2/6 str kobold could be pulling that thousand pound large polar/cave bear because it allows the wizard to move 30 feet and cast a spell. Plus, medium armor+shield holds up far better than traveler's clothes without needing mage armor/shield spell spell slot burn.

[Maxilian]

http://i.imgur.com/N5i2uW8.jpg

From the Caster

[Bahamut7]

Yeah, that sounds like the Rose Whip from YuYu Hakusho; the user brandishes a small amount of plant matter and it grows into a mighty whip.

Yes, the user produces a normal rose hidden in their hair and feeds it some of its Spirit energy. It turns into a Rose Whip, or Thorn Whip, and is razor sharp. Normally Animal Spirits use such weapons...like a certain Kurama...or Yoko Kurama.

[Steampunkette]

My Hexblade Tiefling Warlock actually took pact of the tome so I could pick up Thorn Whip as a Warlock Cantrip.

She uses a Flail. So when she casts thorn whip, the flail's chain extends outward so she can lash her enemies with the flailhead.

[Zilong]

I'd imagine it can manifests the same way one of my players once used firebolt: shooting it out of his crotch... that was a special table.

Now that I think about it, it's a good thing thorn whip was not on his spell list or there would have been many more shenanigans to deal with.

[Sigreid]

I like to imagine it lashing up out of the ground at the caster's feet.

[Tanarii]

Almost every Druid build I've ever seen played used a shield. Since the cantrip requires the other hand free to access the M component (the stem of a plant with thorns), or focus (typically Yew Wand or 1H Quarterstaff), I usually tell players to just assume it shoots out from the component / focus. Since they're all things that can be pointed and used with a whip-like motion, if a magical thorn were extending from them.

Also because it makes perfect sense to me to envision it as the rose stem extending out and whip-pulling the target.

[User_Undefined]

I see it looking like Hermit Purple from JoJo. It even comes prepackaged with the V component.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4MlQ49w3Ys