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Sornjss Lichdom
2007-07-26, 11:14 PM
Exactly what the tittle says, I'm starting a new char, and I'm playing a Binder for the first time, and it sounds wickied, but i was looking for some advise, what is you fav vestige, the one that you must get before going agaist the BBEG or the one you must have if you exspect alot of magical trapping, or if you want to make a quick get away. You know the usual stuff. TY in advanse.

Thinker
2007-07-26, 11:18 PM
Naberius is my favorite one, but thats because the only binder I've played was really just a dip for my hellfire warlock.

Fax Celestis
2007-07-26, 11:26 PM
Toss-up between Eurynome, Leraje, Marchosias, Savnok, and Tenebrous.

Winged One
2007-07-26, 11:26 PM
Well, one of the main mechanical advantages of a binder is the ability to switch between them every day. That said, against a BBEG, you should bind whatever vestige that your information suggests would be most effective(so Aym or Amon for something with the Cold subtype that doesn't have fire resistance, for instance). Ronove is the best choice for running away from the torch-and-pitchfork treatment because of the movement speed increase she gives, although Malphas's invisibility would also be an asset. I don't think that any vestiges are particularly suited for traps, but Karsus's ability to detect magic might help you see magical traps coming, if you're of high enough level to bind him. I personally don't really have a favorite vestige.

JackMage666
2007-07-26, 11:32 PM
RP wise - Andromalius. He's just awesome.

Gameplay wise - Buer. Healing is awesome, and fast healing is a great asset. Very nice if you can bind 2 or more vestiges, which you can by the time you bind her, but not all that great by herself, due to lack of offensive abilities.

Gralamin
2007-07-26, 11:35 PM
I generally like to take improved binding at first level in order to bind Savnok. Full Plate at first level is good.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-07-26, 11:51 PM
OK ty for the insight, when can you bind Karsus, i think that would be one of the most usefull because my group is lacking a strong spell caster.

Zincorium
2007-07-27, 01:30 AM
I like Savnok, personally. Not only is the story pretty cool, but it can make combat a lot more survivable.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-07-27, 01:46 AM
Hmm... I like them all almost the same, but if I really had to choose... Probably Paimon by a hair.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-07-27, 11:03 AM
also daes anyone have any good homebrew vestiages for a low lvl.

ALOR
2007-07-27, 11:12 AM
I wish WotC would support this class more. i've seen two other vestiges in a dragon magazine. One was Kas the other was the Great Primus. Thats it, no other support. :smallfrown:

Gralamin
2007-07-27, 11:16 AM
Here are all the official WoTC approved vestiges that do not appear in Tome of Magic (and their source)

* Dragon Magic (Ashardolon)
* Dragon #341 (Primus and Kas)
* Design and Development article (Vanus, http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060407a)
* Mind’s Eye article (Abysm, Arete, The Triad, http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070119a
* Cityscape Web Enhancement (Astaroth, Deshartis, http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a)

Fax Celestis
2007-07-27, 11:25 AM
Here are all the official WoTC approved vestiges that do not appear in Tome of Magic (and their source)

* Dragon Magic (Ashardolon)
* Dragon #341 (Primus and Kas)
* Design and Development article (Vanus, http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060407a)
* Mind’s Eye article (Abysm, Arete, The Triad, http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070119a
* Cityscape Web Enhancement (Astaroth, Deshartis, http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a)

Desharis from that last one is neat.

TheLogman
2007-07-27, 01:59 PM
Paimon is just awesome, cause of his unique special abilities, and the Angel in the Angle, Halphax, is fun to play battle-field control with.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-07-27, 02:02 PM
ya i agree, what should a binder use when he can only summon a lvl one or two vestiage. A the begianing of the day, first day of the campign so you dont know what to expect, just the all around utilatiy, i was thinking either Amon or Naberius... Also what is the best class to multi class with the binder class. Warlock or Incarente or whatever.

Draz74
2007-07-27, 02:41 PM
The best multiclass for a Binder is any arcane caster, so he can go into Anima Mage, which is an awesome dual-progression-PrC. Wizard is of course the best option if you've got the ability scores for it (a Wizard/Binder is quite MAD -- Intelligence and Charisma and all).

Hmmmm ... Binder/Beguiler/Anima Mage probably isn't that awesome (still MAD), but would be an interesting combo for sure.

Other than that, the best multiclass for a Binder is just to enter a good Binder-specific PrC, specifically Knight of the Sacred Seal.

Other than that, a Binder/Warlock makes TONS of sense flavor-wise. The only reason it's powerful at all, though, is the Hellfire Warlock prestige class from Fiend Folio. The HfW is very powerful except that he gives himself Constitution damage all the time. The Binder has one of the easiest ways in the game to heal ability damage (Naberius).

Hellfire Warlock aside, I think a Binder/Warlock dual-progression-PrC would be awesome. Someone should make one. It would be powerful, but not as powerful as the Anima Mage, so not "broken." :smallwink:

Zeful
2007-07-27, 02:53 PM
Lets see my favorite would have to be Otiax. Blue swrilling fog! and You can air blast people as if you had a reach weapon and as a part of a full attack.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-07-27, 03:04 PM
i found one of those warlock/binder Prc, it was homebrew but looked crazy good, ill try to find the link

found it, it's still prty cool http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=710329

Bill Lumberg
2007-07-27, 03:37 PM
also daes anyone have any good homebrew vestiages for a low lvl.

There is a 44 page thread of home-brewed vestiges at the WotC boards. It has an index of them around pages 16-19 or so.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=606718

For a low-level character I would suggest Aym if you plan to fight in melee. The fire-aura is a good defense against anyone without a reach weapon. She also gives heavy armor proficiency and greater than normal speed in heavy armor.

Naberius is good for diplomacy and social interaction. He also gives Disguise Self every round.

Malphas gives Invisibility and allows you to summon a bird whose eyes you can see through. This is great for scouting an escape route and fleeing unseen. He also grants sneak-attack ability.

Make sure that you take the Improved Bind Vestige feat. It treats your binder level as two higher for the purpose of what vestiges you have access to. This lets a first level binder make pacts with second level vestiges.

...Eh?
2007-07-27, 03:43 PM
Whenever playing a Binder, Ignore Special Requirements feat. Enough said.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-07-27, 05:32 PM
OK cool ty for the link, i was thinking of making a vestiage of a Marilith that decided to challenge the gods. the abiliaty's would be grillion's blessing at will, so you can sprout more arms, you'd get weapon focus long sword, and you can create a blade barrier every five rounds, you would produce red rimmed eyes, and give off the slight odor of brimstone, giving everybody around you an uneasy feeling.

Username
2007-07-27, 06:24 PM
You folks missed an official Vestige! It's an awesome one, and certainly my favorite:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718

Free pseudonatural template, a dazing ray attack, and the best part, the ability to summon pseudonatural stuff as a sorcerer of your level.

Fax Celestis
2007-07-27, 06:26 PM
I forgot about Zceryll! He's awesome.

Username
2007-07-27, 06:33 PM
The sign is cool too, mirror eyes certainly will freak people out.

Dihan
2007-07-27, 06:47 PM
also daes anyone have any good homebrew vestiages for a low lvl.

I made a Druid flavoured one.

Here it is: Nulu, Lady Wild (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45828)

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-07-27, 08:04 PM
Altebold, God’s Bane 7th lvl, binding check 26

Legend: Altebold was a Marilith who in his lust for power overly defied every god he crossed, soon his pride and ignorance lead him in one of the biggest open revolts against a certain orc god who didn’t like being crossed. Altebold forced himself into the God’s plane of existence with his hords of servants who turned around and gated in many of there kind in kind. The battle shook the mortal world and the god’s followers were said to have gone without divine power. In the end though the god prevailed, throwing all the demons from his realm and into the endless Abyss, after imprisoning Altebold in a anit-magic dome. No one knows when, how, or why Altebold died, but some how his soul passed own into a void were only vestiages go.

Special Requirements: The binder doing the summoning must not be aligned to one god, or have a patron deity.

Manifestation: In the middle of the circle sprouts swirling smoke which turns from dark black to light white, and then a surly yellow as it transforms to brimstone. As the brimstone dust fills the circle all the way to the edges a dark silhouette appears in the yellow cloud. As the outline becomes more defined the yellow cloud rushes out to meat you, staying just below your knees. Now though you can see a Hulking orc, leaning on a long sword, a token to his last and greatest foe.

Sign: You grow small black horns that are usually no more than nubs on you for head, your eyes become red rimmed and you give of a slight smell of brimstone yourself, giving everybody around you an uneasy feeling.

Influence: You don’t take clerics, druids, rangers, and paladins seriously and love to get in moral arguments with the best of them, even when you might agree with there motives and actions.

Granted abilities: You can affect yourself with Grillions Blessing at will. You also gain a Weapon Focus for the Long sword. You are also under the effect of see invisibility and my use the spell blade barrier once every 5 rounds.


This I think is pretty cool, but I think you can mix in the same thing but with different Demons for different effects, like a Balor for more power or my other favorite would be a making it a vrock and then make you spells for travel, like teleport or invisibility. Preferably teleport once every 5 rounds and invisibility at will. Tell me what you think.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2007-07-27, 10:23 PM
Marchosias. It wasn't even really a competition.

Tenebrous had a few tiny lil' voices in the back of my head, though.
Zceryll is pretty neat, gotta love the lovecraftian; and Acererak is my most favorite architect. :P

ALOR
2007-07-27, 11:36 PM
This is a great thread, i love this class and it's wonderful to see that it does have support even if most of it isn't official.

Matthew
2007-07-28, 12:57 AM
The best multiclass for a Binder is any arcane caster, so he can go into Anima Mage, which is an awesome dual-progression-PrC.

I always read that as Anime Mage...