Question about Combat items

[Desteplo]

Oil, acid and alchemist fire. All items. All improvised weapons. Tavern brawler makes them usable and awesome combos with alchemist fire and just tons and tons of oil.
-If someone Had tavern brawler, Aside from making them usable, would adding proficiency bonus be too much?
-Caltrops being 8+ proficiency, hunting trap being 11+ proficiency
-would it be 8+int+proficiency
-or add proficiency on top of listed in the item description. Caltrops being 10+ and hunting trap being 13+
-considering it takes a feat to apply

[Specter]

If you make an attack roll, like acid, then it's fair to be used with Tavern Brawler, and with proficiency. But things like hunting traps and caltrops fall under 'Use an Object', so Tavern Brawler doesn't apply. That's the Thief's turf.

[Desteplo]

If you make an attack roll, like acid, then it's fair to be used with Tavern Brawler, and with proficiency. But things like hunting traps and caltrops fall under 'Use an Object', so Tavern Brawler doesn't apply. That's the Thief's turf.

I understand that it's not an attack but thieves don't get proficiency With them either.

My point is, that items are improvised weapons. Just because they don't include an attack does that disqualify them from proficiency?

-An attack spell and a save spell are still a spells
-Ranged and melee are still attacks.
-are improvised item attacks (oil) and save items (caltrops) equal?

[JackPhoenix]

I understand that it's not an attack but thieves don't get proficiency With them either.

My point is, that items are improvised weapons. Just because they don't include an attack does that disqualify them from proficiency?

-An attack spell and a save spell are still a spells
-Ranged and melee are still attacks.
-are improvised item attacks (oil) and save items (caltrops) equal?

"Improvised item attacks" and "save items" are items. That doesn't make them equal, just as spells requiring attack rolls and spells forcing saving throw aren't equal despite both being spells: there are different rules concerning each.

Item is not an improvised weapon until you use it to attack someone... if you used the caltrop to stab someone, the proficiency granted by Tavern Brawler would apply. If the caltrop is just lying on the ground waiting until someone steps on it, it's a trap, not weapon.

Think of it this way: if you use a weapon, it depends on your skill if you hit an enemy. If you place a caltrop, you have no further influence on how effective it will be, the enemy will either step on it or not... being more skilled with hitting your enemies won't change anything.

[Desteplo]

"Improvised item attacks" and "save items" are items. That doesn't make them equal, just as spells requiring attack rolls and spells forcing saving throw aren't equal despite both being spells: there are different rules concerning each.

Item is not an improvised weapon until you use it to attack someone... if you used the caltrop to stab someone, the proficiency granted by Tavern Brawler would apply. If the caltrop is just lying on the ground waiting until someone steps on it, it's a trap, not weapon.

Think of it this way: if you use a weapon, it depends on your skill if you hit an enemy. If you place a caltrop, you have no further influence on how effective it will be, the enemy will either step on it or not... being more skilled with hitting your enemies won't change anything.

Finesse adds to damage because the way you attack someone
-why not proficiency allowing the timing and technique to add to dc?

It wasn't just a question of if it works. It was a question of if it did get added, how would that affect t the game. Would it be negative? Or would it at least help item use in later stages of the game.

Or should people be buying enchanted caltrops, or bigger bags of ball bearing. If so how should that be implemented.