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Xefas
2007-07-27, 01:00 AM
Philosopher of the Heart
“Much of my life has been dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge. That knowledge has guarded this world well. Not a soul doubts that. I am blessed with people's smiles and respect. But though I am called a sage, there are things I do not understand. I believe darkness sleeps in every heart, no matter how pure. Given the chance, the smallest drop can spread and swallow the heart. I have witnessed it many times.

Darkness... Darkness of the heart. How is it born? How does it come to affect us so? As ruler of this world, I must find the answers. I must find them before the world is lost to those taken by the darkness.” ~Xehanort, Philosopher of the Heart

Philosophers of the Heart are those who delve into the mysteries of emotions, and more specifically, their corruption. How does love turn to hate? Compassion to spite? Generosity to greed? If one could stay pure of heart while studying such mysteries, they would most assuredly be able to revolutionize the world. Sadly, no mortal mind can come face to face with what blackens virtue and devours happiness without being driven into the darkness themselves. The lucky are those that abandon their research before they discover the true secrets, but many are too obsessed at that point to even consider giving up the horrific knowledge unfolding before them.
Those that seek the path of the Philosopher are most often Wizards or Archivists, not because they are more qualified, but because they are most likely to come across information about the work of Philosophers while sifting through old tomes and grimoires. However, Sorcerers and other arcane casters are just as capable of pursuing the Heart as their more book-smart cousins.
NPC Philosophers are mostly solitary for fear of the reaction of others to their work. However, if a number of similarly minded individuals find each others, it’s not unheard of for them to form some sort of Organization. Those who adventure are almost always out to find some sort of forbidden relic or meet creatures who would possess knowledge relating to their interests.
Hit Dice: d4
Skill Points: 4 + intelligence modifier

Entry Requirements
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 8, Knowledge (Religion) 8
Feats: Investigator
Spellcasting: Able to cast 3rd level spells of a class that uses either intelligence or charisma to determine maximum level of spells capable of being cast OR the ability to cast lesser invocations.


Philosopher of the Heart
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Darkness Incarnate, Dark Lore|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Bright Eyes|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3||+1 level of existing spellcasting class

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Dark Descent|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|All That There Is To Know|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Devour Emotions|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Blackheart|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|All That There Is To Know|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6||+1 level of existing spellcasting class

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Heartless|+1 level of existing spellcasting class [/table]

Class Features:

Spellcasting: When a new Philosopher of the Heart level is gained, the character gains new spells per day, spells known, or invocations known as if she had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting or invocation-casting class she used to qualify for the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds the level of Philosopher of the Heart to the level of whatever other class the character used to qualify for this prestige class with, then determines spells per day, spells known, invocations known, and caster level accordingly.

Darkness Incarnate (Su): At first level, a Philosopher learns of the darkness within his own heart, and how to gain minor control over it. As a standard action, at will, the Philosopher can produce an effect identical to the spell darkness, centered on himself, with a caster level equal to his class level.

Dark Lore (Ex): A Philosopher of the Heart spends much of his time learning of corruption, and those creatures associated with it. He adds his class level as a competence bonus to all Knowledge checks used to identify creatures that are always of an evil alignment.

Bright Eyes (Su): Beginning at second level, a Philosopher has learned the trick of seeing through the darkness by strength of will alone. His vision is no longer affected by magical darkness of any kind, and he gains Darkvision out to 60ft if he did not already have such an ability. When this power is active, the Philosopher’s eyes glow a bright, otherworldly yellow that make the other features of his eyes impossible to determine. This ability can be activated or deactivated as a swift action.

Dark Descent: When a Philosopher of the Heart attains fourth level, he undergoes an internal corruption as the darkness grasps his heart with an irremovable grip. His ability to feel positive emotions is decayed partially, changing his moral alignment from good to neutral if he was previously of good alignment; otherwise, his alignment remains unchanged. In addition, he no longer gains morale bonuses of any kind, but he can still gain morale penalties. Finally, his Darkness Incarnate ability now creates Deeper Darkness rather than normal Darkness.

All That There Is To Know (Ex): At fifth level, a Philosopher of the Heart goes slightly mad. His detachment from happiness, even though only partial, weighs on him, permanently draining 2 points of wisdom. However, this madness breaks down mental barriers previously obstructing his studies, earning him a permanent +2 bonus to either intelligence or charisma. At eighth level, happiness, to a Philosopher, is no more than a foggy memory that he grasps at for relief from his madness but is eternally failing. He suffers 4 more points of wisdom drain, and gains another +2 bonus to either intelligence or charisma. If this deduction would lower a character’s wisdom to 0 or lower, he is instead incapable of taking his fifth or eighth level in this class.

Devour Emotions (Su): At sixth level, the dreadful ability to draw emotion into the darkness of their own heart and destroy it is granted to the Philosopher by their diligent study. This acts as the calm emotions spell centered on the Philosopher, and can be used at will. Unlike the calm emotions spell, the creatures affected are not settled, but rather forcibly robbed of their ability to feel anything but emptiness. As such, once the Philosopher breaks concentration, and emotion begins to flood back into the effected people, they become shaken for a number of rounds equal to one half the Philosopher’s class level.

Blackheart: Seventh level marks another change in a Philosopher’s heart. It is now entirely covered in darkness and incapable of feeling happiness or empathy. His moral alignment becomes evil if it was not already. Unlike the previous alignment change from Dark Descent, this is irreversible, as the Philosopher can no longer fathom the idea of doing good deeds. Due to the alien way his emotions work now, he gains a +4 bonus on all saves against charms, compulsions, and abilities to read or control his mind. Because of his extensive studies on emotions, however, the DC of all his charm, compulsory, and mind-affecting spells is increased by 2.

Heartless: At 10th level, the darkness is too much for the Philosopher to control any longer. It utterly consumes his body and soul, leaving only shreds of intellect and personality floating in the bleak abyss. This action kills his familiar, if he had one, but he suffers no ill effects of this. After this horrific act, the lost vestiges of the Philosopher reach out to the darkness and master it, having nothing left for it to feed on. He recreates a new body exactly like his old one, though there may be minor aesthetic differences, as the Philosopher’s choice. The new body’s strength and constitution is 4 less than the old one, but it has damage reduction 10/good and is immune to mind-affecting abilities and effects. Finally, if the Philosopher had a familiar, it returns to him as an Allip, gaining all the bonuses and abilities a normal familiar would be granted. If he did not have a familiar, an Allip is created from a remnant of his master’s madness made manifest. In the latter case, a Philosopher uses his class level in place of his wizard level in determining what abilities and bonuses a familiar would be granted.

-------------------------------------

My first attempt at creating a class all by my lonesome, and it's just a rip of a Disney character. Ah, well...all the good ideas are taken already, anyway. At least, that's what I tell myself... :smallfrown:

Anyway! Even though this was just for fun, please give me your opinions! I wasn't sure if the class had strict enough entry requirement, as it always seems prestige classes require more feats and skills than that...but then again, I also worry that the huge ability drain from the capstone ability is too much. I dunno if its underpowered, overpowered, or heavy on one side...

Also, if you're aware of what the class refers too, it'd be cool to have some opinions on the fluff of some of the abilities or maybe ways I could better describe/represent what-not.

Rnett
2007-07-27, 01:22 AM
So... Why not just say has to be able to cast third level arcane spells?

I don't think there's any arcane classes that use Wisdom as the base for spells...


In any case, I unno... A bit of an increase in effective spellcasting in place of a crap on the classes good save...


Otherwise, tis new to say the least. A good intention at the beginning turns the person evil in the end, though roleplaying it prolly isn't gonna happen with a lot of people. I don't know what character you refer to, though, so I can't help you there.

Xefas
2007-07-27, 01:32 AM
So... Why not just say has to be able to cast third level arcane spells?

I don't think there's any arcane classes that use Wisdom as the base for spells...


In any case, I unno... A bit of an increase in effective spellcasting in place of a crap on the classes good save...


Otherwise, tis new to say the least. A good intention at the beginning turns the person evil in the end, though roleplaying it prolly isn't gonna happen with a lot of people. I don't know what character you refer to, though, so I can't help you there.

Its not that I was banning arcane classes who use wisdom. Its that I wanted to allow the Archivist, which is an intelligence-based divine caster.

And, erm...I'm not sure I get what you mean about the "increase in effective spellcasting in place of a crap on the classes good save". Ummm...can you make it a little more clear? :smallfrown: sorry

But, in any case thank you for the compliments! And the character being referred to is this man here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/93/KingdomHeartsAnsem.jpg/180px-KingdomHeartsAnsem.jpg). He's from Kingdom Hearts, which is a Disney-SquareEnix game. Second best game franchise ever, in my opinion; right next to God of War. Now, if only we could combine the two...

Rnett
2007-07-27, 01:39 AM
Haha, I assumed it was KH...

Ooooh, I haven't looked at PHII yet (I think that's where I saw the name...), though I'll be buying it next pay day. And I've seen the class in SRDs, but they're just too boring to read.

As you continue, you lose Wisdom, a cumulative -3 to your modifier, which since your a INT of CHA based spellcaster, probably isn't gonna be high on your list for picking, right?

So you get one good save, and as you progress, the base Will save's increases will be kinda sullied by the loss of 6 WIS points, you know?

Which'll leave a weak good save (3 points weaker, in any case), and poor other saves. But then, balance isn't my thing, I'm not entirely sure how bad that'd end up being by the time you had ECL of 10th or above.



But yeah, like the fluff, not sure on mechanics, and not something, admittably, I'd play, though it makes an excellent villain.

Xefas
2007-07-27, 01:46 AM
Haha, I assumed it was KH...

Ooooh, I haven't looked at PHII yet (I think that's where I saw the name...), though I'll be buying it next pay day. And I've seen the class in SRDs, but they're just too boring to read.

As you continue, you lose Wisdom, a cumulative -3 to your modifier, which since your a INT of CHA based spellcaster, probably isn't gonna be high on your list for picking, right?

So you get one good save, and as you progress, the base Will save's increases will be kinda sullied by the loss of 6 WIS points, you know?

Which'll leave a weak good save (3 points weaker, in any case), and poor other saves. But then, balance isn't my thing, I'm not entirely sure how bad that'd end up being by the time you had ECL of 10th or above.

But yeah, like the fluff, not sure on mechanics, and not something, admittably, I'd play, though it makes an excellent villain.

Oh, yes, I see...mmm...suffering from low saves is never a good thing; thank you for pointing it out. Players and bad guys both have to deal with "save or suck" spells at some point, so maybe I could do something with the two dead levels that helps that out...hmmm...lemme see...

Well, Archivist is in Heroes of Horrors, I believe. The base classes in PHBII are Beguiler, Dragon Shaman, Duskblade and Knight.

F.H. Zebedee
2007-08-20, 10:20 PM
Another superb work. I personally think that this makes for a delicious ammount of flavor.

It can be ran as being extremely dark, with a descent into madness unnerving the rest of the party, or as an excellent BBEG.

And it also could be a fun comedic character, with his hair gradually growing over one of his eyes as the game progressed. ;)

Sir Conkey
2007-08-21, 01:39 AM
I have a D20 modern character like this, he is a crazed german scientist with questionable morals.
I like this class and actually fits well with my campaign for a lesser main enemy, he is crazy anyway, and very emotionless, odd combo really

littlechicory
2007-08-21, 10:36 AM
Now we need "Nobody" and "Heartless" creature templates. With the excess of "Keybearer" classes out there, we could make a n00b/fanbrat-proof Kingdom Hearts campaign setting...

GNUsNotUnix
2007-08-21, 10:58 AM
The full spellcasting progression bothers me. Since you're only really sacrificing a feat and a relatively useless familiar, I can't think of a reason for a Wizard not to take this class.

Also, if the familiar becomes an allip, it seems appropriate that this class would stack for familiar progression, at least partly. Maybe you could remove spell progression on levels 1, 4, and 7, replacing them with familiar advancement?

Xefas
2007-10-12, 06:25 AM
I know this would be a dreadful necromantic raising of a thread, were in not that I am about to add a second class that is very much related to the one already present. I figure making a single thread relevant again is better than created a second thread altogether and linking to this one.

However, first, I'd like to answer the posts I never got around to. I don't figure it'll matter, but I don't want to feel like I ignored anyone.


Another superb work. I personally think that this makes for a delicious amount of flavor.

It can be ran as being extremely dark, with a descent into madness unnerving the rest of the party, or as an excellent BBEG.

And it also could be a fun comedic character, with his hair gradually growing over one of his eyes as the game progressed. ;)

Thank you :smallbiggrin: . Although, it's also possible for already evil PCs to pick up the class. It makes the fluff less interesting, but if you really wanted to...


I have a D20 modern character like this, he is a crazed german scientist with questionable morals.
I like this class and actually fits well with my campaign for a lesser main enemy, he is crazy anyway, and very emotionless, odd combo really

Thank you!


Now we need "Nobody" and "Heartless" creature templates. With the excess of "Keybearer" classes out there, we could make a n00b/fanbrat-proof Kingdom Hearts campaign setting...

Actually, I used to have all of the Nobodies statted out on my computer. Sadly, the relatively large list was accidentally deleted during a quick clean up I was doing. It was under a file that held some stuff from a campaign long since past, and I deleted it without thinking. Anyway, I suppose if a Disgaea D&D setting is possible, anything is...


The full spellcasting progression bothers me. Since you're only really sacrificing a feat and a relatively useless familiar, I can't think of a reason for a Wizard not to take this class.

Also, if the familiar becomes an allip, it seems appropriate that this class would stack for familiar progression, at least partly. Maybe you could remove spell progression on levels 1, 4, and 7, replacing them with familiar advancement?

A wizard wouldn't take this class if the fluff didn't fit his character, his group's composition, or the campaign's theme. It seems like a lot of people forget those reasons sometimes.

Well, the class doesn't have anything to do with familiars until the very last level. Allipism is just a side-effect. There's no thematic reason to advance familiar abilities, especially because you don't even need a familiar to get into the class. Also, three casting levels is a sizeable dip in power. I think with all the penalties that accrue, and the poor saving throws, losing that much spell power would be too much for spellcasters to want to take, even if they do like the fluff.

Xefas
2007-10-12, 06:44 AM
Once again, any criticism is welcome. Fluff, balance, spelling/grammar errors, etc. Oh, and, of course, if anyone has ideas for other emotions for the abilities that give an option, that'd be good too.

Also, any areas of fluff I should expand upon? And maybe suggestions for other classes? Dunno if a Disney campaign setting wouldn't be all that bad of an idea...is somebody already doing one?

------------------------------

Tenebrous Disciple
"Once we step through, we might not be able to come back. There's no turning back, but this may be our only chance. We can't let fear stop us. I'm not afraid of the darkness."

~Riku, Tenebrous Disciple

Much like their spellcasting counterparts, the Philosophers, a Tenebrous Disciple unlocks the mysteries of their own heart, whether it be for good intentions, reckless ambition, or a simple curiosity. However, unlike a Philosopher, their emotions are galvanized by the darkness, rather than consumed, until they become living entities of negative thought and feeling. Eventually, their minds simply forget all that they loved, all that they stood for, and even who they were. A full-fledged Disciple has no purpose or meaning. They are puppets to be manipulated and then cast aside.
The path towards becoming a Disciple is easiest for warriors of the Sublime Way. They are already skilled at pulling forth inspiration and energy from within themselves, and the power it offers is often appealing to such people. However, it is possible for anyone to be enticed towards oblivion; they simply require the correct feats.
NPC Tenebrous Disciples who have not yet progressed very far in the prestige class can run the gambit between all alignments, purposes, personalities, or goals. However, once an NPC has mastered the class, they are almost always a deadly, malicious, servant of some greater power (usually an NPC Philosopher of the Heart).
Hit Dice: d10
Skill Points: 4+Int Modifier

Entry Requirements
Skills: Concentration 8 rank, Knowledge (Arcana) 2
Feats: Combat Focus (PHBII)
Maneuvers: Must know at least two maneuvers from the Stone Dragon discipline.

Tenebrous Disciple
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Maneuvers Known|Maneuvers Readied|Stances Known
1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Dark Passion|0|0|1
2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+0|Bright Eyes|1|0|0
3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+1||0|0|0
4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+1|Dark Ascent|1|0|0
5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+1|Malign Providence|0|1|0
6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+2|Fade Away|1|0|1
7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+2|Voidheart|0|0|0
8th|
+6|
+2|
+2|
+2|Oblivion|1|0|0
9th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+3||0|1|0
10th|
+7|
+3|
+3|
+3|Heartless|1|0|0 [/table]

Class Features:
Maneuvers: At each even-numbered level, a Disciple gains one additional maneuver known from the Desert Wind, Iron Heart, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, or Tiger Claw disciplines. They must meet a maneuver's prerequisites to learn it. Disciples add their full class level to their initiator level to determine total initiator level and max level of maneuver known.
At 5th and 9th level, Disciples also gain one extra maneuver readied.
At 1st and 6th level, Disciples also gain one extra martial stance.

Dark Passion (Ex): At 1st level, a Tenebrous Disciple's heart becomes skewed by the darkness within. Certain emotions become prevalent over others and influence the Disciple's decisions. In addition, when assuming a Combat Focus, rather than entering a supernatural state of awareness and steely determination, the Disciple is consumed by the selected emotion, turning it into tangible power, which may also have certain visual effects, at the Disciples choosing. The choice must be made at 1st level, and can never be changed; every time Combat Focus is activated, the same emotion takes over. The Choices are:

Hatred: If the Disciple choose this ability, then whenever they activate their Combat Focus, they also gain a +4 bonus on melee damage rolls against enemies that are not being engaged in melee combat by any other source. However, the Disciple must succeed on a DC (15 + 2 per class level + the Disciple's charisma modifier) Concentration check in order to perform any action besides melee combat while already engaged in melee combat while in their Combat Focus.

Jealousy: Once per encounter, as an immediate action, when a Disciple who has chosen Jealousy is in their Combat Focus would be struck by a weapon made of a special material or has an alignment descriptor attached, the Disciple gains Damage Reduction 10/X, where X is everything but that material or alignment type. The Damage Reduction persists until the Combat Focus ends. While this special Damage Reduction is active, the Disciple only gains half the normal amount of health from healing spells (rounded down), and only half (rounded down) of any morale bonuses that would or are currently effecting them.

Arrogance: When an Arrogant Disciple activates their Combat Focus, they gain a +4 bonus on all saving throws and opposed checks (such as for feint, bull rush, grapple, etc). If they are ever damaged while in their Combat Focus, this bonus is removed, and they gain a -2 penalty on all saving throws and opposed checks until their Focus ends.

Fear: While in a Combat Focus, a Fearful Disciple gains a single bonus attack of opportunity per round. This attack is special, in that the Disciple gains a +2 profane bonus to attack rolls against anyone struck by their special attack of opportunity for the remainder of their Focus. However, Disciples who choose this emotion take a -2 penalty on all attacks, saving throws, and opposed checks while being flanked in their Combat Focus.

Bright Eyes (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a Disciple has learned the trick of seeing through the darkness by strength of will alone. His vision is no longer affected by magical darkness of any kind, and he gains Darkvision out to 60ft if he did not already have such an ability. When this power is active, the Disciple’s eyes glow a bright, otherworldly yellow that make the other features of his eyes impossible to determine. This ability can be activated or deactivated as a swift action.

Dark Ascent: At 4th level, a Tenebrous Disciple's negative emotions undergo a violent growth as they are fed by the newly unlocked darkness in the Disciple's heart. They spread like wildfire, eclipsing much of what was previously good about the Disciple. The Disciple's moral alignment changes to Neutral if it was previously Good, as what were once good intentions become plagued by selfishness. In addition, the bonuses granted by the Disciple's Dark Passion extraordinary ability persist for an addition two rounds after their Combat Focus ends.

Malign Providence (Ex): A 5th level Disciple's ego becomes more defined by their nature of their own personal darkness. This can manifest in a variety of ways.

Pride: The Disciple's sense of self becomes stronger, granting a permanent +2 bonus to Charisma. In addition, the Disciple can create a small, insubstantial projectile, of which the appearance is chosen by the Disciple when this ability is selected, once per encounter. Creating the projectile is a move action, and it can be carried for up to two rounds before dissipating. Firing it is a standard action. In reality, the projectile is the will of the Disciple's Ego made manifest, and when it strikes an opponent (ranged touch attack up to 50'), it attempts to dismember the target's own heart. The target must make a will save (DC 10 + the Disciple's class level + the Disciple's Charisma modifier) or take 5d6 points of damage due to extreme stress placed upon their will to exist, and become shaken for the remainder of the encounter.

Devotion: The Disciple's heart becomes more attuned to the group dynamic, the darkness in his heart resonating with that of those he is connected with. Whenever they are within 10ft of an ally, all bonuses granted by Dark Passion are doubled (though the penalties stay the same). In addition, once per encounter, as an immediate action, the Disciple can instantaneously switch places with one ally within 10' (no line of effect or sight needed). How this ability works visually is up to the Disciple when this ability is chosen.

Complexity: With this ability, a Disciple causes a second of his emotions to become empowered by the darkness. He chooses a second emotion from the list of Dark Passions, and gains all the bonuses and penalties as normal when in a Combat Focus. In addition, the effects of Dark Passion extend another two rounds after the Disciple's Combat Focus ends (for a total of 4 when combined with the bonus from Dark Ascent).

Fade Away (Ex): At 6th level, darkness flows forth, devouring not only thought and feeling, but flesh as well, making part of the Disciple one with itself. The Disciple either has their blood infected, gaining a permanent +4 bonus to fortitude saves; their muscles wasted away, turning to shadow, and granting a permanent +4 bonus to reflex saves; or their brain partially converted to solid darkness, giving them a permanent +4 bonus to will saves.

Voidheart (Ex): At 7th level, the darkness in a Disciple has become so great, its hunger extends beyond the confines of the Disciple's own heart, mind, and body, grasping at all it can feed on in the Disciple's foes as well. The Disciple radiates a permanent aura out to 10', the effects of which are chosen when this ability is gained.

Hope: The Disciple siphons hope from others, giving foes a -2 penalty on all saving throws.

Diligence: The Disciple siphons the will to live from others, giving foes a -2 penalty to armor class.

Persistence: The Disciple siphons the will to care from others, causing foes to act in turn order as if their initiative was 2 lower. If a foe moves into the aura and they still have actions remaining, they complete their remaining actions on their new turn order.

Oblivion: An 8th level Disciple can no longer understand why he would take actions of good intent. He fully understands what goodness is, but is entirely beyond redemption. His moral alignment permanently becomes evil, as what vestiges of love and kindness remain are buried under an endless sea of profanity and madness. However, effects dependant on his alignment being evil no longer work, as their virtue is instantly devoured and negated by the Disciple's heart as soon as they effect him (thus, for all intents and purposes, he has no moral alignment, other than the way he acts).

Heartless: A 10th level Disciple has no body to call its own. It is merely a vague, horribly mutilated personality residing within a body made of tangible darkness. It no longer has a gender or a race, and takes a -10 penalty on all disguise checks to appear as a member of its race, as its skin becomes a complete velvety black, and its features entirely disappear. Its Bright Eyes ability can never be turned off, and it gains one last ability, usable once per month. This ability automatically activates when the Disciple is killed, if it is available. When activated, the remnants of the Disciple's mind and heart abandon its corpse and possess the shadow of the one who killed it. It cannot be severed from the shadow without killing the owner of the shadow as well. For 2d10 days, the owner experiences a heightened feeling of whatever the Disciple's Dark Passion was, and at the end of the period, they must make a will save (DC 20 + the Disciple's charisma modifier). If the save fails, the Disciple takes over the host's body, killing him, and converting it to a replica of its own. The dead host can only be resurrected by a True Resurrection or greater spell.

Magnor Criol
2007-10-12, 09:35 AM
Nice job, I really like the flavor of these characters - you really captured the "good intentions leading to bad things" effect well.

A couple problems with the Disciple:
1. Dark Passion's emotions - can any Disciple access all of the emotions, and they just declare which emotion they're using when they enter a Focus, or do you have to choose one when you take the class and stick with that emotion for the duration of the class? I'm guessing it's the first, but the second could have interesting possibilities. A Disciple picks one of the four motivating Passions at first level, then at 5th level there'd be a corresponding Malign Providence (If they chose Arrogance, they get Pride, and so on.) The Voidheart ability could pretty easily be tied to this branched progression, too. You'd have to add another choice to Malign Providence and Voidheart, and probably retool / rename some of the choices so that corresponding choices work off each other better, and abilities like Complexity would be hard to make fit, but it could be worth considering.
It'd also fit fluffwise, since recurring evil characters like this often have one great weakness, be it arrogance or hatred or such, and that's what their evil character is build around.

2.
Jealousy: Once per encounter, as an immediate action...[snip snip snip]...any morale bonuses that would or are currently effecting them.
I'm probably misreading this. But what I see here is that once per encounter, a Disciple activates his combat focus, chooses Jealousy, and promptly gains both a weakness to a weapon in that fight and a penalty on healing and bonuses. The only benefit I can see in there is that they gain a slight DR to any other enemies who don't have the special weapon, but the chance is not altogether unlikely that you'd face off against a group of people that all are armed with similar quality weapons. My point is, there doesn't seem to be an upside to choosing Jealousy, especially not one worth the penalties.

3. A couple typos that I caught:

...+2profane bonus to attack rolls against anyone struck by there special attack of opportunity for the remained of their Focus.
Missed a space between the "+2" and "profane", used the wrong homonym ("their" not "there"), and "remainder" not "remained." Minor typos.

4. Malign Providence's Devotion ability seems like it's missing something. The fluff for it says that the Disciple "becomes more reliant on others to function properly"; it seems like there should be some sort of penalty, corresponding to the bonuses from a nearby ally, incurred when there's not an ally nearby. Otherwise they're not having trouble functioning properly without others, they're just functioning better with others.

5. Voidheart's Persistance ability is too strong, in my opinion. -4 to initiative is pretty high (I think a -2 would probably be more appropriate), but the real kicker is the enemy entering the aura bit. If an enemy loses their actions as they enter an aura, the Disciple just became invincible to melee fighters; anyone who comes at him stops what they're doing at the edge of his aura, meaning the Disciple can get a full turn in before they can - including, perhaps, attacking and backing off, forcing their enemy to move towards them again and incur the "lose your turn" sort of effect.
It should probably be something more along the lines of an enemy entering the aura finishes the actions they were pursuing that turn, then doesn't act again until their turn comes around. If (when?) the enemy's turn comes up again that round of combat, they do not act; they have to wait until their turn comes up in the next round. I dunno, that still seems weird. Messing with initiative scores in the middle of combat is sticky business.

Skelengar
2007-10-12, 10:28 AM
I'm not the biggest fan of KH, but I think these are pretty good. They fit well in my campaign, except for the fact that there's no provisions for psionic classes. I think Psions should be able to take Philosopher of the heart.


If an enemy loses their actions as they enter an aura, the Disciple just became invincible to melee fighters; anyone who comes at him stops what they're doing at the edge of his aura, meaning the Disciple can get a full turn in before they can - including, perhaps, attacking and backing off, forcing their enemy to move towards them again and incur the "lose your turn" sort of effect.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html

Goober4473
2007-10-12, 12:06 PM
Just a simple question: why can't people come to terms with the darkness that corrupts people, and then choose to fight against it? Why does seeing it automatically drive them to evil?

Otherwise, I like the classes. Very cool.

Xefas
2007-10-12, 07:45 PM
Nice job, I really like the flavor of these characters - you really captured the "good intentions leading to bad things" effect well.

A couple problems with the Disciple:
1. Dark Passion's emotions - can any Disciple access all of the emotions, and they just declare which emotion they're using when they enter a Focus, or do you have to choose one when you take the class and stick with that emotion for the duration of the class? I'm guessing it's the first, but the second could have interesting possibilities. A Disciple picks one of the four motivating Passions at first level, then at 5th level there'd be a corresponding Malign Providence (If they chose Arrogance, they get Pride, and so on.) The Voidheart ability could pretty easily be tied to this branched progression, too. You'd have to add another choice to Malign Providence and Voidheart, and probably retool / rename some of the choices so that corresponding choices work off each other better, and abilities like Complexity would be hard to make fit, but it could be worth considering.
It'd also fit fluffwise, since recurring evil characters like this often have one great weakness, be it arrogance or hatred or such, and that's what their evil character is build around.

2.
I'm probably misreading this. But what I see here is that once per encounter, a Disciple activates his combat focus, chooses Jealousy, and promptly gains both a weakness to a weapon in that fight and a penalty on healing and bonuses. The only benefit I can see in there is that they gain a slight DR to any other enemies who don't have the special weapon, but the chance is not altogether unlikely that you'd face off against a group of people that all are armed with similar quality weapons. My point is, there doesn't seem to be an upside to choosing Jealousy, especially not one worth the penalties.

3. A couple typos that I caught:

Missed a space between the "+2" and "profane", used the wrong homonym ("their" not "there"), and "remainder" not "remained." Minor typos.

4. Malign Providence's Devotion ability seems like it's missing something. The fluff for it says that the Disciple "becomes more reliant on others to function properly"; it seems like there should be some sort of penalty, corresponding to the bonuses from a nearby ally, incurred when there's not an ally nearby. Otherwise they're not having trouble functioning properly without others, they're just functioning better with others.

5. Voidheart's Persistance ability is too strong, in my opinion. -4 to initiative is pretty high (I think a -2 would probably be more appropriate), but the real kicker is the enemy entering the aura bit. If an enemy loses their actions as they enter an aura, the Disciple just became invincible to melee fighters; anyone who comes at him stops what they're doing at the edge of his aura, meaning the Disciple can get a full turn in before they can - including, perhaps, attacking and backing off, forcing their enemy to move towards them again and incur the "lose your turn" sort of effect.
It should probably be something more along the lines of an enemy entering the aura finishes the actions they were pursuing that turn, then doesn't act again until their turn comes around. If (when?) the enemy's turn comes up again that round of combat, they do not act; they have to wait until their turn comes up in the next round. I dunno, that still seems weird. Messing with initiative scores in the middle of combat is sticky business.

1) They choose one and have to stick with it. I'll make that more clear. Also, I'd like to not wrap the abilities to one another, so that there can be more mix n' matching. I don't see why you couldn't have a Jealous/Prideful or Arrogant/Devoted Disciple.

2) Oops! I got DR mixed up a bit. They're suppose to get DR that only stops that one kind of weapon, sort of a "Haha, look at your great weapon now! Neener neener!". I'll mend that as well!

3) Thank you.

4) Ah, yes, I'll write that up differently, then.

5) Not really. Alright, lets say TD and KB are fighting one another. TD has an initiative of 8, and KB has an initiative of 13. KB runs into the aura, and now acts as if his initiative is 9. He isn't interrupted at all. In fact, nothing changes.

It gets even less useful in a group situation. However, I see what you mean, so, I'll consider changing it. Either lowing it, or doing something besides initiative, because, like you say, it's sticky business.


I'm not the biggest fan of KH, but I think these are pretty good. They fit well in my campaign, except for the fact that there's no provisions for psionic classes. I think Psions should be able to take Philosopher of the heart.

Well, you're welcome to use either class. Its not too hard to change it to a psionic class, is it? Just change +1 spellcasting level to +1 manifesting level. I don't play psionics, so if there's something else that doesn't work, just tell me, and I can make rules for a psionic version.


Just a simple question: why can't people come to terms with the darkness that corrupts people, and then choose to fight against it? Why does seeing it automatically drive them to evil?

Otherwise, I like the classes. Very cool.

Because you can fight darkness, but you can't fight yourself. It's like the difference between trying to get a splinter out of your toe, and trying to get out a rusty nail thats lodged in your intestines. The darkness is part of you, and mastering it, controlling it, only makes it eat you faster. You're already in control of it, but it's you, so it has just as much control.

However, there's nothing that says something that's Evil can't also fight Evil things. Blood War?

Xefas
2007-10-13, 11:24 PM
Some feats to go with the classes. Am I not getting replies 'cause the stuff isn't good :smallfrown: ?

Heartless Guardian
With enough practice, a suitably powerful Philosopher of the Heart can learn to merge his existence with his familiar, gaining extra protection for both of them. The familiar becomes temporarily invulnerable, yet immobile, and serves as a living shield for its master.
Prerequisites: Charisma 15+, Heartless, Allip familiar
Benefits: As a standard action, you may will your adjacent Allip familiar to become one with your shadow, transforming it into a Guardian for five rounds. While in Guardian form, the Allip cannot move, takes up no space beyond your square(s), has no special abilities, cannot attack or perform any actions, and cannot be affected at all by anything. However, it grants you a +4 Shield bonus to your armor class, and a +2 bonus on reflex saving throws.

Light in the Darkness
You've fallen to a place in which no creature can claim to deserve redemption, and yet, something inside you is unwilling to be consumed. It shines like a beacon of hope for your salvation, casting the darkness outward upon other evil-doers, that you might attempt to atone for yourself.
Prerequisites: Oblivion, Must have been Good or Neutral prior to attaining the Oblivion class feature.
Benefits: Your moral alignment changes to Neutral, but you lose no class features from the Tenebrous Disciple class. In addition, you may attain Good alignment if you so choose, via normal means. Furthermore, any weapons you wield count as Good Aligned for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
Normal: The Oblivion class feature permanently changes your moral alignment to Evil.
Special: You can gain no more levels in Tenebrous Disciple, and if your alignment ever shifts to Evil, you lose the benefits of this feat, and cannot take another one to replace it. You cannot take this feat if you have the Heartless class feature.

Mocking Strike
You get under other peoples' skin in the heat of battle, throw them off balanced, and then trample them into the mud in humiliating and degrading ways, all the while laughing hysterically at their misfortune.
Prerequisites: Intimdating Strike (PHBII), Intimidate 6 ranks, Dark Passion: Jealousy
Benefits: When you successful cause a foe to be shaken via a use of the Intimidating Strike feat, you can also make a trip attempt against them as a free action.

Soul-Crushing Strike
You can cause the unfathomable hatred boiling inside of you to be cast forth, shattering your opponent's will to live in a scintillating blaze of ki energy.
Prerequisites: Ki Blast (PHBII), Dark Passion: Hatred, Malign Providence: Pride, Voidheart: Diligence
Benefits: While in a Combat Focus, you can spend three stunning fist attempts when creating your projectile gained from Malign Providence, as well as expending one unexpended readied 6th level martial maneuver. Your projectile becomes a Soul-Crushing Strike, the appearance of which is up to you. You can throw the projectile as a standard action, up to 50', as a ranged touch attack. A creature struck by it takes 10d6 points of damage, and must roll a fortitude save, and two will saves. A failed fortitude save stuns the target for 1 round, the first failed will save causes the target to be shaken for the remainder of the encounter, and failing the second will save deals 2d6 charisma damage and applies a -1 penalty to the targets saving throws for the remainder of the encounter for every 2 points of charisma damage taken in this way.

Paranoia
Your constant vigilance brought on by personal insecurities are further amplified by the darkness in your heart, granting nigh-superhuman awareness of your immediate area.
Prerequisites: Dark Passion: Fear, Dodge, Tumble 5 ranks
Benefits: You can no longer be flanked, and gain a +2 dodge bonus to your armor class when dealing with Attacks of Opportunity.

Indestructible Arrogance
While close to your trusted allies, your hubris can never be broken. You're the best damn warrior alive, and your buddies come in a close second, so there isn't anything you can't do!
Prerequisites: Dark Passion: Arrogance, Malign Providence: Devotion
Benefits: You take no penalties from your Arrogance ability when taking damage within 10ft of an ally (although the bonus is still negated). In addition, you gain a +4 bonus versus fear effects while within the same radius.
Normal: When you take damage while in an Arrogant Combat Focus, the bonuses granted from your Dark Passion ability are negated and you acquire a -2 penalty on all saving throws and opposed checks.

smart thog
2007-10-14, 05:41 PM
I have a idea for something similar, but in the other direction. I call it


THE RISEN FIEND

I have some ideas for the class features, like having increased DR good and being immune to naturally allinged weapons like those of clesetials, but not holy weapons. It involves killing a clestial, and eats its corpse to gain immunity to holy powers. However eventualy, the pureness of the clesetial overwhelms that of the evildoers, and you have to change alingment toward good. I suck at balencing classes though, so could someone help me out?

Xefas
2007-10-14, 07:45 PM
I have a idea for something similar, but in the other direction. I call it


THE RISEN FIEND

I have some ideas for the class features, like having increased DR good and being immune to naturally allinged weapons like those of clesetials, but not holy weapons. It involves killing a clestial, and eats its corpse to gain immunity to holy powers. However eventualy, the pureness of the clesetial overwhelms that of the evildoers, and you have to change alingment toward good. I suck at balencing classes though, so could someone help me out?

I could do it, though I'd give it its own thread. Shouldn't take me very long, but I'm eating at the moment.

Skelengar
2007-10-14, 08:50 PM
it says anyone can be a Tenebrous Disciple if they have the right feats, but you restrict it to classes with acces to manuvers. What if a fighter wants to take it? Or a Swashbuckler?

Xefas
2007-10-14, 09:07 PM
it says anyone can be a Tenebrous Disciple if they have the right feats, but you restrict it to classes with acces to manuvers. What if a fighter wants to take it? Or a Swashbuckler?

They take the Martial Study feat, I believe it is called.

Sonofaspectre
2007-12-31, 10:14 PM
This is a very fun and flavorful prestige class. The only thing I would suggest is instead of becoming evil at level 7, I believe that the removal of emotions would force a change on the lawful spectrum of alignment instead of another change on the moral spectrum. Evil is ruled by emotions, hatred, jealousy, anger, lust, greed, gluttony, all the truely evil acts are acts of passion and emotion. I believe that the darkness in the Philosopher's heart would force him to become True Neutral. But that is just me.

As for the Disciple, Tome of Battle isn't really my thing, but I really like the flavor you put in. Seems good.

Xefas
2008-01-01, 05:43 AM
This is a very fun and flavorful prestige class. The only thing I would suggest is instead of becoming evil at level 7, I believe that the removal of emotions would force a change on the lawful spectrum of alignment instead of another change on the moral spectrum. Evil is ruled by emotions, hatred, jealousy, anger, lust, greed, gluttony, all the truely evil acts are acts of passion and emotion. I believe that the darkness in the Philosopher's heart would force him to become True Neutral. But that is just me.

As for the Disciple, Tome of Battle isn't really my thing, but I really like the flavor you put in. Seems good.

First of all, thank you for the praise :smallsmile:

Second, to clarify, the ability does not mention anything about becoming emotionless.



It is now entirely covered in darkness and incapable of feeling happiness or empathy.

You still get hatred, anger, jealousy, etc...just no happiness nor friendliness. Sure, you remember how it felt, but that's just liable to make you more pissed.