Advice for NG Warforged Incarnate

[danielxcutter]

As title.

Restrictions:

No VoP.

No multiclassing or prestige classes.

No RAW abuse.

[ATHATH]

... Take a look at the Incarnate Handbook, maybe?

If you switch to being LN, you could take the Ordered Chaos feat and play around with both Lawful and Chaotic soulmelds, which is fun.

[Grod_The_Giant]

A non-multiclassed Incarnate can have trouble with offense-- they get good attack/damage boosting melds, but still have a low BAB. A Skillful Weapon helps. Another decent option is Dissolving Spittle + Share Soulmeld, but I'm not sure you can get a familiar or animal companion with Share Spells with feats alone.

[danielxcutter]

Hmmm... I don't need too much offense; I just don't want a meatshield who's most optimal tactic is using Blink Shirt to teleport between the casters and the enemy martials.

Also, I need a "cheat sheet" for soulmeld and chakra bind combinations. There are lots of soulmelds, and while there are plenty of good ones they don't always go well with others.

[Particle_Man]

Might as well get adamantine body (or whatever it is called) at level 1 and have a awesome armour class. You can also boost AC with your incarnate abilities IIRC so you can super-tank in that sense (if you can only get enemies to try hitting you instead of your allies).

Maybe put a few skill ranks in various skills you can boost with melds, just in case, especially if you need a rank to be trained.

The lightning touch soulmeld is nice at low levels.

Extra Essentia because essentia is hard to get and you can never have too much of it.

Split Chakra once you get cool magic items that you want to keep that occupy the same slot as you want to bind a chakra to (do warforged get to make their body armour into a magic item? Can warforged graft magical parts to their bodies?). That said, you can also aim to get those magic items in the incarnum book that can boost your capacity in various slots (and don't take space if you bind a chakra there too).

Oh, and put points in one of the skills that lets you self-repair, since you don't heal as others do - is there a soulmeld that boosts one of those skills?

At high levels, bind a soulmeld to your soul chakra, just to prove to naysayers that you have a soul. ;)

[Venger]

... Take a look at the Incarnate Handbook, maybe?

If you switch to being LN, you could take the Ordered Chaos feat and play around with both Lawful and Chaotic soulmelds, which is fun.

There are no lawful or chaotic soulmelds.

If you're set on being good for rp reasons, that's fine, but mechanically, evil incarnates have 7 unique soulmelds, while good ones only have 2 (which are both pretty terrible) and law and chaos have 0.

here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?217064-Soulmeld-List-by-Class-and-Slot) is a list of the default soulmelds for incarnate organized by slot (instead of alphabetically like the geniuses at wotc organized them) and remember you by default have access to psionic soulmelds (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a) which are mostly just pasta and add no utility if you're playing by the actual rules re: transparency, but the astral vambraces are unique and quite useful.

dragon magic adds a handful more draconic melds, which are accessible if you have the dragonblood subtype. any time I build a meldshaper, I contrive a way to do this, those melds are quite good.

no multiclassing/prcing is rough, but incarnate is viable to 20. since that's what you're doing, here's a link to the handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6920.0) which will help catch you up with the basics.

[Zaq]

Out of the box, you'll be very versatile and useful out of combat. In combat, you're a Dwarven Defender—you can take a lot of punishment, but smart enemies will mostly just ignore you, since you aren't dangerous enough to warrant their attention.

You can sink a lot of resources into fixing this, and you probably should. I'm fond of going STR-heavy, poaching the Mauling Gauntlets with Shape Soulmeld, and using a harpoon, which lets you make opposed STR checks to limit an enemy's movement—STR checks that are turbocharged by the Mauling Gauntlets. Takes a few feats, though, and you have to find enough to-hit bonus somewhere to overcome your low BAB and land the initial hit. I think the harpoon is in Frostburn, but I don't have the book open to double-check.

[Particle_Man]

What does the rest of the party consist of?

[Venger]

Out of the box, you'll be very versatile and useful out of combat. In combat, you're a Dwarven Defender—you can take a lot of punishment, but smart enemies will mostly just ignore you, since you aren't dangerous enough to warrant their attention.

You can sink a lot of resources into fixing this, and you probably should. I'm fond of going STR-heavy, poaching the Mauling Gauntlets with Shape Soulmeld, and using a harpoon, which lets you make opposed STR checks to limit an enemy's movement—STR checks that are turbocharged by the Mauling Gauntlets. Takes a few feats, though, and you have to find enough to-hit bonus somewhere to overcome your low BAB and land the initial hit. I think the harpoon is in Frostburn, but I don't have the book open to double-check.


Incarnates can be pretty dangerous in combat. As the handbook suggests, spring for a skillful weapon ASAP since it fixes your abysmal base attack. You're a skillmonkey among other things, and many incarnate melds give utility vs straight damage like totemist. Remember the mage's spectacles. UMD is one of your most valuable class features (even though it's not a class skill, so buy a rank or two) and wands are just as important to you as they are a rogue.

Harpoon is in stormwrack, not frostburn. if you want a bonus to str checks, take ss (girallon arms), not mauling gauntlets. the bonus is better.

[Big Fau]

NG Incarnates have very limited offense, but excellent defense (capable of keeping up with high-level play). Your offense options at the low levels are pretty much restricted to Dissolving Spittle and the occasional Incarnate Weapon. Mid-levels you should get some UMD action going and focus on No Save/SR control spells (like Acid Fog). Maybe some DD, but that gets very expensive.

Dipping Cleric and getting the DM to wave the alignment requirement of Sapphire Hierarch is also a good option.

[Venger]

NG Incarnates have very limited offense, but excellent defense (capable of keeping up with high-level play). Your offense options at the low levels are pretty much restricted to Dissolving Spittle and the occasional Incarnate Weapon. Mid-levels you should get some UMD action going and focus on No Save/SR control spells (like Acid Fog). Maybe some DD, but that gets very expensive.

Dipping Cleric and getting the DM to wave the alignment requirement of Sapphire Hierarch is also a good option.
Very solid advice, but:



No multiclassing or prestige classes.

Terrible rule, but that's what he's playing under. Otherwise I'd have advised a good old crusader dip to take advantage of stone power/cobalt power.

[Segev]

My only advice is linguistic and stylistic: Call him a "Good Incarnate Warforged." The class is supposed to be [alignment] Incarnate, which is a lot more impressive-sounding.

"I am called Adamantine Artifice, the Warforged, and I am Good Incarnate!"

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hmmm... I don't need too much offense; I just don't want a meatshield who's most optimal tactic is using Blink Shirt to teleport between the casters and the enemy martials.

Also, I need a "cheat sheet" for soulmeld and chakra bind combinations. There are lots of soulmelds, and while there are plenty of good ones they don't always go well with others.
If you want melee, Lightning Gauntlets let you throw a... well, a passable punch; at level 12 you'd be adding +6d6 on one attack per round. It and Dissolving Spittle both combo well with Psionic Weapon/Shot; if you're only throwing one real attack, might as well make it a big one.

This is the summary I made for myself. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/qb56onqz1rz33hb/Soulmelds%20Summary.docx?dl=0)

[Fouredged Sword]

I got to recommend you bypass melds for your offense. A +1 skillful battlefist will give you 3/4th bab for your natural slam attack. Pair that with shocking fist and stone power and you can trade -1 to attack for 1d8+1.5str + 2d4 electric damage up to BABd4 (cap 10d4) electric damage. Mix in power attack and you can take attack bonuses and pretty effectively turn them into damage.

You essence can then be focused on boosting your to hit and defenses.

[danielxcutter]

Woot! I was not expecting much advice besides "do LN or NE Incarnate instead", but this time the playgrounders have rose up to the challenge splendidly. Thank you everyone, these are great advice! :smallbiggrin:

[Big Fau]

Woot! I was not expecting much advice besides "do LN or NE Incarnate instead", but this time the playgrounders have rose up to the challenge splendidly. Thank you everyone, these are great advice! :smallbiggrin:

I think the only time someone would be told to play a different alignment as an Incarnate is a CN one, as their abilities do not have good synergy (although IIRC the Incarnum Handbook's author has a "build" for a CN Incarnate).

[danielxcutter]

I think the only time someone would be told to play a different alignment as an Incarnate is a CN one, as their abilities do not have good synergy (although IIRC the Incarnum Handbook's author has a "build" for a CN Incarnate).

I guess maybe, but LN and NE are much better at melee combat than NG ones, so I was expecting stuff like that to happen. Good thing I was wrong.

[Big Fau]

I guess maybe, but LN and NE are much better at melee combat than NG ones, so I was expecting stuff like that to happen. Good thing I was wrong.

Oh without a doubt. The purpose of the NG Incarnate is similar to the Dwarven Defender, but its actually capable of fighting back while trying to fill that niche.

While VoP is prohibited, is it still possible for you to take Stigmata? You can (with your DM's permission) combo it with the Strongheart Vest to heal out of combat on the cheap.

[danielxcutter]

Oh without a doubt. The purpose of the NG Incarnate is similar to the Dwarven Defender, but its actually capable of fighting back while trying to fill that niche.

While VoP is prohibited, is it still possible for you to take Stigmata? You can (with your DM's permission) combo it with the Strongheart Vest to heal out of combat on the cheap.

What does that feat do again?

[Big Fau]

What does that feat do again?

You take X Con (in increments of 2) damage to heal someone 1Hp/Level/2 Con damage.

[danielxcutter]

You take X Con (in increments of 2) damage to heal someone 1Hp/Level/2 Con damage.

So it's terrible if you don't have a reliable way of healing Con damage I see. That is one of the most terribly inefficient ways of healing I've ever seen. Unless it works with Strongheart Vest which does make it viable.

[Big Fau]

So it's terrible if you don't have a reliable way of healing Con damage I see. That is one of the most terribly inefficient ways of healing I've ever seen. Unless it works with Strongheart Vest which does make it viable.

The only argument I've seen against it is the Vest isn't treated as a form of DR; the damage just flat-out isn't dealt and the cost for Stigmata can't be paid. It can work by RAW, but its an exploit of the BoED's age and the MoI's wording.