Pick My Spells! (Eldritch Knight)

[Lughaidh]

I'm creeping up on third level with my Fighter and agonizing about what to choose when I inevitably go Eldritch Knight with my archetype. I know what the best spells are, thanks to the fantastic guide on these boards (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?479532-Bellator-Arcana-The-Eldritch-Knight-s-guide). Still, I'd like the selections to have some theme and to make sense from a roleplaying standpoint. So, here I am to invite the anonymous masses to help me select my spells. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but its what I do best.

Some background on my character... He is a Tiefling Fighter that carries a rapier and shield. Despite being a Tiefling, he was raised by Human nobility. His adopted parents being rulers of a kingdom in the homebrew setting my friend is running. I've styled him kind of like a musketeer... without the musket. He's dexterity based, mobile and agile. Hes proficient in acrobatics; I imagine him leaping around in battles very swashbuckler-like. Being a Tiefling there is also that innate infernal quality to him. I can see it manifesting in his magic somehow, even if it's not his desire. He's already got the racial stuff.

So my thought is, do I just pick what is best from a optimization standpoint? Is there a way to be thematic and still pick fairly good spells? Maybe pick Fire and Shadow/Darkness spells when possible? Or pick spells that emphasize the mobile sword duelist aspect? All thoughts are welcome, even if it's to tell me I'm being silly. :smalltongue:

[Spellbreaker26]

This sounds like a fairly good idea. I'd suggest Absorb Elements (a great spell, and in magic terms it's kind of like a parry and riposte) and Misty Step when you get your level 2 any school spell (increases mobility fantastically).

[djreynolds]

It really truly depends on what you are doing in your party

Yeah Specter has a great guide there.

So I would go with Spellbreaker26 and focus on movement, defense, and damage

Now here are things to think about. I played a strength based heavy armor EK meat shield with GWM and my layout was simple shield spell, mirror image, protection from evil or blur, and later haste. That was it basically.

I see you are a dex build, are you planning on fighting in maybe mage armor with blur and mirror image and the shield spell? How long does it take to finally buff yourself before a fight? And now its over? Are you the main melee damage dealer? How much hurt are planning to give out?

From what I see you look to be a skirmisher, get in BB/GFB and get out.

Do you really need 11 levels of EK and 3 attacks?

Do you really have the AC to confidently hang out in melee and get beat up and then only swing 3xs with a rapier?

Are you willing to multiclass? Rogue and wizard could be awesome options.

Wizard 3 gives you a ton of spells and spell slots

Swashbuckler for 3 level dip, cunning action, expertise, fancy footwork

Also you have the charisma for sorcerer or warlock possibly. Hex is a nice spell, but it is concentration so no blur or haste.

So define what your dex based EK will be. How many attacks do you need? What combination of concentration and non-concentration spells will you use?

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I think 7-8 levels max for this EK, with the new SCAG cantrips you can get more out of just War Magic than 3 attacks as a dex based fighter.... though Bow Bound could be a resource to look into.

[Arkhios]

Shocking Grasp could be a nice option especially because of its rider (target can't take reactions for a while) if you find yourself in uncomfortable situation and have to move away.

[Lughaidh]

It really truly depends on what you are doing in your party

Yeah Specter has a great guide there.

So I would go with Spellbreaker26 and focus on movement, defense, and damage

Now here are things to think about. I played a strength based heavy armor EK meat shield with GWM and my layout was simple shield spell, mirror image, protection from evil or blur, and later haste. That was it basically.

I see you are a dex build, are you planning on fighting in maybe mage armor with blur and mirror image and the shield spell? How long does it take to finally buff yourself before a fight? And now its over? Are you the main melee damage dealer? How much hurt are planning to give out?

From what I see you look to be a skirmisher, get in BB/GFB and get out.

Do you really need 11 levels of EK and 3 attacks?

Do you really have the AC to confidently hang out in melee and get beat up and then only swing 3xs with a rapier?

Are you willing to multiclass? Rogue and wizard could be awesome options.

Wizard 3 gives you a ton of spells and spell slots

Swashbuckler for 3 level dip, cunning action, expertise, fancy footwork

Also you have the charisma for sorcerer or warlock possibly. Hex is a nice spell, but it is concentration so no blur or haste.

So define what your dex based EK will be. How many attacks do you need? What combination of concentration and non-concentration spells will you use?

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________

I think 7-8 levels max for this EK, with the new SCAG cantrips you can get more out of just War Magic than 3 attacks as a dex based fighter.... though Bow Bound could be a resource to look into.

The rest of the party consists of a Rogue, Moon Druid, and Light Cleric. So, I'm not the only melee combatant, but I have the highest AC. Mage Armor is not likely, the 1 AC difference is worth it to me to not have to worry about wasting spell slots. I'm definitely considering multi-classing at some point, but what I'm struggling with right now is at level 3... which 2 cantrips and 3 spells do I choose?

[Specter]

Solid choices:

Green-Flame Blade: you are a tiefling after all. This will be the staple cantrip at level 7.
Minor Illusion/Fire Bolt: either some extra utility or a ranged option for when you need it. Cover the bases you think are necessary.

Shield: the basics of being an EK.
Absorb Elements/Protection from Good and Evil: AE goes nicely too, but if you have fire resistance it's not a must. PfEaG might be more thematic and better.
Find Familiar/Expeditious Retreat: Find Familiar is awesome, but if you don't like the idea of a bird on your shoulder you can always be faster.

[Lughaidh]

For an infernal theme, I had thought of: Green Flame Blade & Fire Bolt; Burning Hands, Shield, and Find (Fiendish) Familiar. I'm not sure if Burning Hands is overdoing. We do have a decent AoE sources with the Cleric and Druid. Is Good/Evil chosen when spell is first learned for Protection from Good and Evil? Or just when it's cast?

There's also a theme with Booming Blade, Lightning Lure, and Thunderwave... but it doesn't have a tie to my character. Would seem forced.

[Specter]

For an infernal theme, I had thought of: Green Flame Blade & Fire Bolt; Burning Hands, Shield, and Find (Fiendish) Familiar. I'm not sure if Burning Hands is overdoing. We do have a decent AoE sources with the Cleric and Druid. Is Good/Evil chosen when spell is first learned for Protection from Good and Evil? Or just when it's cast?

There's also a theme with Booming Blade, Lightning Lure, and Thunderwave... but it doesn't have a tie to my character. Would seem forced.

Definitely drop Burning Hands, even if it were a good spell you can't upcast it decently.

The 'good and evil' part is just for flavor, the spell protects you from certain types of creature, regardless of their alignment. It could have been name 'protection from outsiders' quite easily.

[Lughaidh]

....and I can cast Protection Good/Evil from my Familiar because it's a touch spell. Eventually Absorb Elements would still be good to get, doesn't stack with Tiefling fire resistance though.

Still considering Minor Illusion vs Firebolt... but I think Thaumaturgy softens the blow of not having Minor Illusion a little bit.

[Addaran]

Regarding Protection from Good and Evil, you get to choose every time you cast. First cast might be protection from undead, next time protection from fey, then protection from elementals.

Since you mentionned rapier and shield, are you planning to get the war caster feat? Spells like shield and absorb elements have S component.

Haven't had the chance to play with absorb elements but i think it's a great spell to get eventually. It will come handy when you face dragons or powerful casters with lightning bolt or cone of cold.

[NecroDancer]

I'd recommend not multiclassing. Going 20 levels of eldrich knight is strong.

[djreynolds]

For an infernal theme, I had thought of: Green Flame Blade & Fire Bolt; Burning Hands, Shield, and Find (Fiendish) Familiar. I'm not sure if Burning Hands is overdoing. We do have a decent AoE sources with the Cleric and Druid. Is Good/Evil chosen when spell is first learned for Protection from Good and Evil? Or just when it's cast?

There's also a theme with Booming Blade, Lightning Lure, and Thunderwave... but it doesn't have a tie to my character. Would seem forced.

Those 2 cantrips work. BB will be your attack, lightning lure is used to bring enemy to you.

Thunderwave might be better than burning hands, but both are good

The shield spell is great, but it will eat up your spell slots. So the higher your AC the less you have to spam spell slots, til 6th level you will only have 3.

Protection from good/evil is all of those creature types, "against certain types"... "creatures of those type", so I'm pretty sure if you are facing a demon and an elemental your are protected from both

This is why I recommend some levels of wizard it will increase the spells you have and give you ritual casting for wizard spells

[Specter]

Regarding Protection from Good and Evil, you get to choose every time you cast. First cast might be protection from undead, next time protection from fey, then protection from elementals.

This is wrong. It protects against all those creatures. There's no choice involved.

[Arkhios]

This is wrong. It protects against all those creatures. There's no choice involved.

I concur. PfEaG takes care of all types at once. I think it should be self-evident with the name including 'and', not 'or'.

[Addaran]

This is wrong. It protects against all those creatures. There's no choice involved.


I concur. PfEaG takes care of all types at once. I think it should be self-evident with the name including 'and', not 'or'.

Oh wow, seems you guys are right. That makes the spell even more awesome!

There's also a magic item that does PfEaG right? A scroll or potion. The DM said you had to choose which type of creature, was it also wrong?

[Arkhios]

Oh wow, seems you guys are right. That makes the spell even more awesome!

There's also a magic item that does PfEaG right? A scroll or potion. The DM said you had to choose which type of creature, was it also wrong?

I don't recall seeing the potion/scroll, so I can't be certain if it isn't some sort of corner case on this matter, but assuming it's an item your DM gave you and said how it works, there's two possibilities: either the item is a special one created by the DM for the occasion, or the DM has misunderstood the spell.

[JNAProductions]

I think there's an item that only works against specific types, not all of them. But I'm not sure, and am too lazy to actually check.

[Arkhios]

I think there's an item that only works against specific types, not all of them. But I'm not sure, and am too lazy to actually check.

I know of a potion of resistance that specifically gives resistance against one type of energy damage, so there's that at least

[djreynolds]

You gonna have to find a balance. Spells like mirror image and blur are both great.

The thing is timing, as these cost an action to cast now you are waiting.

EK is fun. It is a fun class.

For me the EK is still the guy/gal holding the front lines and attacking, there is nothing wrong with getting into position and casting blur. As long as you are holding the agro of the attackers... you are doing your job.

[Lughaidh]

Thank you all for your replies so far. At this point I'm 90% sure I'm going with this:

0: Firebolt, Green Flame Blade
1: Find Familiar, Protection Evil/Good, Shield

It's flavorful without being weak. Not that those are mutually exclusive.

[Specter]

Thank you all for your replies so far. At this point I'm 90% sure I'm going with this:

0: Firebolt, Green Flame Blade
1: Find Familiar, Protection Evil/Good, Shield

It's flavorful without being weak. Not that those are mutually exclusive.

Can't go wrong, man. You'll be glad to have Fire Bolt when using a shield.