[PF] Mounted Charging Questions

[1pwny]

So, I was starting a campaign with my family, and decided to leave the spell casting to people that would be less likely to metagame - I didn't want to make them feel irrelevant, you know?

We're only using the core rule book, so I've been trying to work out a mounted charger build. I decided to try a Rogue with a lance, that feints to set up a free sneak attack the next turn.

I already have some plans for feats to take (some crit feats and spirited charge, for example).

Do you guys have any advice? I was considering Vital Strike, but am still not quite sure whether it can actually be used at the end of a charge. Also, if you're charging mounted, can you take a move action midway? Like, can I feint while my horse is running?

Thanks.

[legomaster00156]

Vital Strike is not compatible with charges. It is its own unique standard action, not a normal melee attack.

[D.M.Hentchel]

Well actually vital strike does work with a mounted charge (unless I have mkssed something) as mounted charges do not require the charge action, but rather simply making an attack as your mount charges.

For this same reason you should be able to feint your target as you approach, so long as you have Improved Feint.

So you "should" be able to have your mount charge a target, feint them as you approach, and attack them with Vital Strike, multiplied for a mounted charge. However none of that will work at all if you are not mounted.

[1pwny]

Well actually vital strike does work with a mounted charge (unless I have mkssed something) as mounted charges do not require the charge action, but rather simply making an attack as your mount charges.

For this same reason you should be able to feint your target as you approach, so long as you have Improved Feint.

So you "should" be able to have your mount charge a target, feint them as you approach, and attack them with Vital Strike, multiplied for a mounted charge. However none of that will work at all if you are not mounted.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

RAW rules on charging:

Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.

RAW rules on VS:

Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage.

From that it would seem like you could use Vital Strike at the end of a charge, because Charge damage comes from an attack, not from the charge itself.

[legomaster00156]

The attack is part and parcel of the full-round action "charge". It is not its own, separate action. Furthermore, Vital Strike has a specific FAQ about this kind of thing (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9pyy).

[Ssalarn]

Well actually vital strike does work with a mounted charge (unless I have mkssed something) as mounted charges do not require the charge action, but rather simply making an attack as your mount charges.

For this same reason you should be able to feint your target as you approach, so long as you have Improved Feint.

So you "should" be able to have your mount charge a target, feint them as you approach, and attack them with Vital Strike, multiplied for a mounted charge. However none of that will work at all if you are not mounted.

In Pathfinder, both the rider and mount use the charge action on a mounted charge (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9ru6), so Vital Strike is not a viable option. Vital Strike requires an attack action, which is the standard action you use when making an attack (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9pyy). Not that you need it, of course; Spirited Charge and a lance are ridiculously overpowered for a fair stretch of the game as far as raw damage numbers go.

Also relevant, since both rider and mount are using the charge action, this means that characters that have access to pounce and a mount, like mounted fury barbarians (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedPlayersGuide/coreClasses/barbarian.html#mounted-fury) with the Beast Totem line of rage powers, can utterly decimate, gaining mounted charge bonuses from things like a lance and Spirited Charge on their first attack, and then making any iteratives they may be allowed on a full attack, such as those granted by having a high enough BAB or haste.