Succubus Hexblade 2/Blackguard 7/Nar Demonbinder 7

[danielxcutter]

I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't work, but if it does... then that's a CR 20 encounter with a Succubus's insane Charisma modifier to saves, Rebuke Undead uses, Smite Good damage, and also casts spells from it.

Also, Divine Shield + Parrying Shield with a +1 mithral twilight buckler also gets Charisma to shield AC and touch AC.

Replace Parrying Shield with Shield Specialization + Shield Ward also gets it to checks or rolls to resist bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, or trip attempts.

So... would this make a powerful encounter? By powerful I mean a good challenge.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I would throw in some X Stat to Y Bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus) shenanigans. Example: Knight of the Unseelie Court (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342828-Damnable-PC-s-need-a-Blackguard-built-that-ll-teach-them-a-lesson!#6)

[danielxcutter]

I would throw in some X Stat to Y Bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus) shenanigans. Example: Knight of the Unseelie Court (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342828-Damnable-PC-s-need-a-Blackguard-built-that-ll-teach-them-a-lesson!#6)

That's a little overkill, don't you think?

[sleepyphoenixx]

How good a challenge an encounter is depends on your players.
If your players are challenged by CR-appropriate enemies straight from the MM then it will be a tough fight.
If your players are the kind who walk over stock monsters that are CR +4 or higher for them without stopping it'll maybe last a round or two longer than usual but not actually be a threat.

I do like the focus on defense. That's important in a good antagonist.


That's a little overkill, don't you think?

That depends on what kind of party you have. If you want to actually have a recurring villain defensive numbers like that can be necessary, and the offense is good but not excessive.

The saves are a tough nut to crack for most casters, but that's what no-save spells are for. Or save-but-still-lose spells. He has Evasion but not Mettle.
The normal AC is pretty good too, but the flat-footed AC is doable for a ECL 14 character, especially buffed. The concealment from Smoking weapon shouldn't even factor in at that level, that's what Blindsight is for.

A psionic gish that uses Vigor & Psicrystal & Share Pain can tank the damage comfortably enough. So can a well built crusader, a DMM:Persist cleric and other tanky builds.
Keep in mind that the damage requires a dive attack and that +30 to-hit at level 14 isn't actually that high in a high-op game. Just keeping the guy from charging will drop his damage significantly.

He also has way to much gear for CR 14 NPC WBL. That would be my main worry fielding this guy, that the party takes him out and gets all that stuff. I'd replace most of it with one-use items that do the same thing.
He's also easy enough to adjust. Replace the elite array used with average stats, drop some of the gear and you can get the numbers to something appropriate for your party.

[danielxcutter]

How good a challenge an encounter is depends on your players.
If your players are challenged by CR-appropriate enemies straight from the MM then it will be a tough fight.
If your players are the kind who walk over stock monsters that are CR +4 or higher for them without stopping it'll maybe last a round or two longer than usual but not actually be a threat.

I do like the focus on defense. That's important in a good antagonist.

So I got that right, at least? The main idea was ridiculously high defensive abilities with not-so-bad offense, and it seems I nailed that. Oh, and her enormous Charisma bonus also applies to Nar Demonbinder spells, both bonus slots and save DCs. NDs get some pretty nice spells, like Flame Strike and Unholy Blight.

[sleepyphoenixx]

So I got that right, at least? The main idea was ridiculously high defensive abilities with not-so-bad offense, and it seems I nailed that. Oh, and her enormous Charisma bonus also applies to Nar Demonbinder spells, both bonus slots and save DCs. NDs get some pretty nice spells, like Flame Strike and Unholy Blight.

Yeah, my general idea for encounter design is to make the fight last long enough to be memorable, so you mainly want to focus on high saves to avoid BFC and enough AC & hp to survive a few hits from your parties damage dealers.

How high those values need to be obviously depends on your players.
A low-op fighter has trouble hitting things and probably needs several rounds to kill even a stock monster straight from the MM, while a well-built fully buffed gish only misses the same on a natural 1 and kills it with one full attack (or less).

On the other hand you don't want to do too much damage. You want the monster to be a threat (or at least feel like one), so it has to take off a notable chunk of hp, but you don't want to kill your party unless they mess up or get really unlucky (try to avoid weapons with a high crit multiplier).

Again, the low-op rogue who thought 10 Con is fine and didn't buy a +Con item has a different lethality treshold than the 26 Con barbarian with a bunch of DR and temp hp who tanks a dragons full attack without going below half hp.
The same applies to things with saving throws, especially save-or-lose/die abilities. Try to keep it high enough to be threatening, but not so high that you have a good chance of killing the whole party. Ideally you have part of the party immune so it acts as a disabler/fight extender but has no actual risk of a TPK.
There can be a huge variance in saving throws, so you have to look at your party for judging these. I'd generally try to lowball it on the actual save-or-die abilities though, nobody likes those.

[danielxcutter]

Yeah, my general idea for encounter design is to make the fight last long enough to be memorable, so you mainly want to focus on high saves to avoid BFC and enough AC & hp to survive a few hits from your parties damage dealers.

How high those values need to be obviously depends on your players.
A low-op fighter has trouble hitting things and probably needs several rounds to kill even a stock monster straight from the MM, while a well-built fully buffed gish only misses the same on a natural 1 and kills it with one full attack (or less).

On the other hand you don't want to do too much damage. You want the monster to be a threat (or at least feel like one), so it has to take off a notable chunk of hp, but you don't want to kill your party unless they mess up or get really unlucky (try to avoid weapons with a high crit multiplier).

Again, the low-op rogue who thought 10 Con is fine and didn't buy a +Con item has a different lethality treshold than the 26 Con barbarian with a bunch of DR and temp hp who tanks a dragons full attack without going below half hp.
The same applies to things with saving throws, especially save-or-lose/die abilities. Try to keep it high enough to be threatening, but not so high that you have a good chance of killing the whole party. Ideally you have part of the party immune so it acts as a disabler/fight extender but has no actual risk of a TPK.
There can be a huge variance in saving throws, so you have to look at your party for judging these. I'd generally try to lowball it on the actual save-or-die abilities though, nobody likes those.

Don't think Nar Demonbinders get that much for SoDs, but Unholy Blight hurts if you fail a save, so that should probably be considered.

I doubt this build is a serious threat to a high-op party, but I presume it is a pain in the butt to take out, especially if the party uses lots of effects that allow saves.

[Crake]

At CR20 the maximum 5d8 damage from unholy blight (half on save, and also half if they're neutral) is pretty damn pathetic. The main issue I see with your NPC is that she may have incredible defenses, but she seems to lack any kind of decent offense whatsoever. What can she actually do to threaten a party of level 16-20?

[danielxcutter]

At CR20 the maximum 5d8 damage from unholy blight (half on save, and also half if they're neutral) is pretty damn pathetic. The main issue I see with your NPC is that she may have incredible defenses, but she seems to lack any kind of decent offense whatsoever. What can she actually do to threaten a party of level 16-20?

Well, Unholy Blight is only one of the things that Nar Demonbinders can do. The most prominent is Planar Binding(, Greater); this is the true strength of the class. And there's the Blackguard stuff, which includes Smite Good. Which adds her Charisma modifier to the damage as well as Blackguard levels. Not to mention Blackguard spells, which are decent buffs. Her BAB isn't total garbage either, because she gets +4 from her Outsider HD.

[Crake]

Well, Unholy Blight is only one of the things that Nar Demonbinders can do. The most prominent is Planar Binding(, Greater); this is the true strength of the class. And there's the Blackguard stuff, which includes Smite Good. Which adds her Charisma modifier to the damage as well as Blackguard levels. Not to mention Blackguard spells, which are decent buffs. Her BAB isn't total garbage either, because she gets +4 from her Outsider HD.

Her outsider HD gives her 6 bab, not 4, and smite good is again, only useful against good people. Planar binding doesn't really give her any combat capabilities, short of plopping down one of those sigils and summoning an enemy mid-combat, but I mean, at that point why not just cast a willy-nilly planar binding to summon whatever and just teleport away, but then, you don't need black guard and hexblade levels to do that.

If you really want a martial succubus that takes advantage of their incredible charisma, I would suggest instead looking into iaijutsu master. At level 5 they get +charisma to every additional damage dice from iaijutsu focus, and leave the planar binding to a charmed cohort of some kind.

Edit: As a benefit, without needing the nar demonbinder levels, you can have the NPC come online much faster, meaning it's more likely to see play in an actual game. A battledancer 1/paladin of slaughter 2 (for cha to AC and saves)/iaijutsu master 5 should be CR12, with 14 hit dice, 17 ranks in iaijutsu focus, with something like a +12 charisma modifier, giving her +29 to iaijutsu focus, meaning on average an iaijutsu strike would deal +6d6+72 damage, or +7d6+84 on a 10 or 11 respectively. Still just as tanky, but much earlier, and with much higher, and much more universal damage output. Improved feint is a pretty useful addition to that build, her bluff would be insane, allowing pretty consistent denial of dex to AC for iaijutsu strike against foes who might otherwise be immune to the standard methods of higher initiative (she'd get cha to initiative from iaijutsu master btw) or invisibility (aka enemies with uncanny dodge).

Give her a level 11 conjurer charmed cohort (he's probably the nitwit who summoned her in the first place and fell victim to her charms) who calls in her demonic allies when necessary and supports her in battle, and bam, your CR20 enemy is now condensed into a pair of CR11 and CR12 enemies.

[danielxcutter]

^Two things.

1. Her ridiculous defenses come in as soon as she gets Divine Shield + Parrying Shield. Everything else is a bonus.

I think that I should replace Hexblade with Fighter, though. That gets the required feats faster.

2. Not bad, but the idea was high defenses. Your build will likely result in a TPK, which isn't a good idea. Mine just doesn't die easily.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I do agree that the Nar Demonbinder levels aren't really doing all that much.
The class has a pretty small and not that impressive spell list, and the CL is too low to use what it offers effectively at CR 20.
Not to mention that the synergy with Blackguard is about zero. I'd go with Bone Knight instead or just leave it off entirely and make it a lower level encounter.
Fiend of Blasphemy/Corruption would also fit nicely.

You can also get some useful damage out of the build just by taking Craven. Blackguard already gets SA after all. Use your fiendish servant or some undead to get flanking.


Edit: As a benefit, without needing the nar demonbinder levels, you can have the NPC come online much faster, meaning it's more likely to see play in an actual game. A battledancer 1/paladin of slaughter 2 (for cha to AC and saves)/iaijutsu master 5 should be CR12, with 14 hit dice, 17 ranks in iaijutsu focus, with something like a +12 charisma modifier, giving her +29 to iaijutsu focus, meaning on average an iaijutsu strike would deal +6d6+72 damage, or +7d6+84 on a 10 or 11 respectively. Still just as tanky, but much earlier, and with much higher, and much more universal damage output. Improved feint is a pretty useful addition to that build, her bluff would be insane, allowing pretty consistent denial of dex to AC for iaijutsu strike against foes who might otherwise be immune to the standard methods of higher initiative (she'd get cha to initiative from iaijutsu master btw) or invisibility (aka enemies with uncanny dodge).


I don't know about your group, but it sounds like the OPs party isn't all that high-op.
6d6+72 damage is more likely than not to oneshot half of a mid-op ECL 12 party. Or all of them, depending on builds and classes.

[danielxcutter]

I do agree that the Nar Demonbinder levels aren't really doing all that much.
The class has a pretty small and not that impressive spell list, and the CL is too low to use what it offers effectively at CR 20.
Not to mention that the synergy with Blackguard is about zero. I'd go with Bone Knight instead or just leave it off entirely and make it a lower level encounter.
Fiend of Blasphemy/Corruption would also fit nicely.

You can also get some useful damage out of the build just by taking Craven. Blackguard already gets SA after all. Use your fiendish servant or some undead to get flanking.


Yeah, I suppose that Nar Demonbinder isn't that useful, but the basic "insane Charisma modifier to saves and AC" can be done without it, so... Oh, I just remembered: Any way to burn all those Rebuke uses besides Divine Shield? Besides Travel Devotion, of course. That's a given.



I don't know about your group, but it sounds like the OPs party isn't all that high-op.
6d6+72 damage is more likely than not to oneshot half of a mid-op ECL 12 party. Or all of them, depending on builds and classes.

Well, this is mostly a theorical build, since many spells and most martials are rendered next to useless anyways. :smallredface: Plus, most players would walk if you threw either my or Crake's build at them.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Yeah, I suppose that Nar Demonbinder isn't that useful, but the basic "insane Charisma modifier to saves and AC" can be done without it, so... Oh, I just remembered: Any way to burn all those Rebuke uses besides Divine Shield? Besides Travel Devotion, of course. That's a given.
More devotion feats? DMM probably isn't going to help too much, but DMM:Quicken might still be useful to cast + attack. Only works on your Blackguard spells though.


Well, this is mostly a theorical build, since many spells and most martials are rendered next to useless anyways. :smallredface: Plus, most players would walk if you threw either my or Crake's build at them.
Not really. There's plenty of no-save/no-attack spells or spells that have an effect even on a successful save. It doesn't have Mettle or Evasion so even save-for-half spells will work, just slower.
Just spamming Magic Missile would work since SR 18 doesn't stop anyone at CR 20. There's also higher level force spells with the same characteristics.

Even worse, non-evil clerics can spontaneously cast Hammer of Righteousness for 1d8/level, fort-save for half. That's 10d8 even on a successful save, and he doesn't even have to prepare it. Since it's a 3rd level spell he can spam it too as long as he can restore the strength damage. Better hope he's not carrying metamagic rods of maximize/empower or has Mark of the Enlightened Soul prepared.

[danielxcutter]

More devotion feats? DMM probably isn't going to help too much, but DMM:Quicken might still be useful to cast + attack. Only works on your Blackguard spells though.

Like what? It's not like she can get Law Devotion or anything.


Not really. There's plenty of no-save/no-attack spells or spells that have an effect even on a successful save. It doesn't have Mettle or Evasion so even save-for-half spells will work, just slower.
Just spamming Magic Missile would work since SR 18 doesn't stop anyone at CR 20. There's also higher level force spells with the same characteristics.

Even worse, non-evil clerics can spontaneously cast Hammer of Righteousness for 1d8/level, fort-save for half. That's 10d8 even on a successful save, and he doesn't even have to prepare it. Since it's a 3rd level spell he can spam it too as long as he can restore the strength damage. Better hope he's not carrying metamagic rods of maximize/empower or has Mark of the Enlightened Soul prepared.

Well, yeah... but that's a bit high-op stuff. I mean, if the players had time to prepare and they knew just how high her AC and saves were, then they could fight her... but the first time they fought her, at the very least, all their attacks would bounce off like a fly off a Tiger tank. And martials can't do a thing against her.

[Dagroth]

At that level, a Ring of Evasion is trivial... and super-valuable for that build.

[danielxcutter]

At that level, a Ring of Evasion is trivial... and super-valuable for that build.

Duh. Too bad there isn't something like a Ring of Mettle.

I forget if you still have to wear light armor for the ring to work like normal Evasion, though it probably does and is trivial since most of her AC comes from Divine Shield.

[Crake]

I don't know about your group, but it sounds like the OPs party isn't all that high-op.
6d6+72 damage is more likely than not to oneshot half of a mid-op ECL 12 party. Or all of them, depending on builds and classes.

You need to remember though, unless you're optimizing the crap out of iaijutsu focus and using things like gnomish quickrazors, between each attack, you need to a) sheath your weapon (a move action), b) move into melee with your next target, c) get your next target denied dexterity, and most likely d) move back into melee with your next target after they inevitably flee from being in melee with you, so that is 2 move actions, followed by a move action to feint, and a standard action to attack, at best not to mention that she still does need to hit :smalltongue: It would be a tough fight, surely, but far from impossible.


Well, this is mostly a theorical build, since many spells and most martials are rendered next to useless anyways. :smallredface: Plus, most players would walk if you threw either my or Crake's build at them.

The reason I have this build so readily available though is because I actually have such a character in my campaign world, she's the leader of the yakuza in my games. I like to use CR/ECL12 as the benchmark for legendary/iconic characters in my game, which is why i set her at that ecl, but I mean, compare her to a level 11 spellcaster, they're throwing about 22d6 disintegrates, save or dies, is a melee attack every couple of rounds that is capable of killing someone really that far off? It just seems that way because it's a martial character, and they aren't allowed to have nice things, are they? :smalltongue:

I haven't actually thrown this character at my players before, but they are aware of her existence, and if at any point in the future people try to mess too much with the yakuza, well, they might be meeting her face to face.

[danielxcutter]

You need to remember though, unless you're optimizing the crap out of iaijutsu focus and using things like gnomish quickrazors, between each attack, you need to a) sheath your weapon (a move action), b) move into melee with your next target, c) get your next target denied dexterity, and most likely d) move back into melee with your next target after they inevitably flee from being in melee with you, so that is 2 move actions, followed by a move action to feint, and a standard action to attack, at best not to mention that she still does need to hit :smalltongue: It would be a tough fight, surely, but far from impossible.

Yes, but your build does most of that. Plus, there's a difference between being a major threat, and one-shotting everything she hits. Unless your party is mostly comprised of Dragonborn Earth Dwarves with Incarnum classes, there's little chance of them surviving more than two hits from her.


The reason I have this build so readily available though is because I actually have such a character in my campaign world, she's the leader of the yakuza in my games. I like to use CR/ECL12 as the benchmark for legendary/iconic characters in my game, which is why i set her at that ecl, but I mean, compare her to a level 11 spellcaster, they're throwing about 22d6 disintegrates, save or dies, is a melee attack every couple of rounds that is capable of killing someone really that far off? It just seems that way because it's a martial character, and they aren't allowed to have nice things, are they? :smalltongue:

I haven't actually thrown this character at my players before, but they are aware of her existence, and if at any point in the future people try to mess too much with the yakuza, well, they might be meeting her face to face.

At least Disintegrate allows a save, and it's limited to the caster's spell slots. Not to mention that your table seems rather high-op compared to most. Plus, anything that can one-shot half of the players isn't something that I'd use a lot at my table. In my opinion, the key to making powerful encounters is seeming like a threat and being a challenge, without steamrolling the players in a few rounds.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Duh. Too bad there isn't something like a Ring of Mettle.

I forget if you still have to wear light armor for the ring to work like normal Evasion, though it probably does and is trivial since most of her AC comes from Divine Shield.

You already have 2 levels of Hexblade. Just dump the Nar Demonbinder and take a third and you have Mettle. I'd even go for Hexblade 4 for the Dark Companion ACF because it synergizes with Aura of Despair.

As for armor you can just wear a chain shirt + dastana. 5 base AC with light armor and another enchantment target. It's really not worth going for medium or heavy for a measly +3 AC.


You need to remember though, unless you're optimizing the crap out of iaijutsu focus and using things like gnomish quickrazors, between each attack, you need to a) sheath your weapon (a move action), b) move into melee with your next target, c) get your next target denied dexterity, and most likely d) move back into melee with your next target after they inevitably flee from being in melee with you, so that is 2 move actions, followed by a move action to feint, and a standard action to attack, at best not to mention that she still does need to hit :smalltongue: It would be a tough fight, surely, but far from impossible.
Sure, but i generally prefer lower-but-consistent damage for my NPCs most of the time. There's a time and place for a one-hit one-kill boss, but if you overuse them it just gets frustrating.


The reason I have this build so readily available though is because I actually have such a character in my campaign world, she's the leader of the yakuza in my games. I like to use CR/ECL12 as the benchmark for legendary/iconic characters in my game, which is why i set her at that ecl, but I mean, compare her to a level 11 spellcaster, they're throwing about 22d6 disintegrates, save or dies, is a melee attack every couple of rounds that is capable of killing someone really that far off? It just seems that way because it's a martial character, and they aren't allowed to have nice things, are they? :smalltongue:

CL 11 Disintegrate actually does less average damage. :smalltongue: Not to mention it allows a fort save that characters by level 11 should make most of the time.

But i generally dislike using Disintegrate on my NPCs too, for the same reasons.
Just oneshotting your players doesn't make for a very interesting encounter imo.
I'd rather have them struggle to take my boss NPCs down for several rounds. Sure, they should take enough damage to be threatened, but i generally try for them being able to survive 2-3 hits unless they're particularly squishy or get an unlucky crit.
(And then have the NPC escape if feasible. Man, my players are so incredibly paranoid about applying Dimensional Anchor and things like that.:smallbiggrin:)

[danielxcutter]

You already have 2 levels of Hexblade. Just dump the Nar Demonbinder and take a third and you have Mettle. I'd even go for Hexblade 4 for the Dark Companion ACF because it synergizes with Aura of Despair.

As for armor you can just wear a chain shirt + dastana. 5 base AC with light armor and another enchantment target. It's really not worth going for medium or heavy for a measly +3 AC.

Actually, I'm considering dumping Hexblade for Fighter. Couldn't get the feats in place quickly otherwise. Any ideas what to take after Blackguard, btw? Straight Fighter is boring.


Sure, but i generally prefer lower-but-consistent damage for my NPCs most of the time. There's a time and place for a one-hit one-kill boss, but if you overuse them it just gets frustrating.


CL 11 Disintegrate actually does less average damage. :smalltongue: Not to mention it allows a fort save that characters by level 11 should make most of the time.

But i generally dislike using Disintegrate on my NPCs too, for the same reasons.
Just oneshotting your players doesn't make for a very interesting encounter imo.
I'd rather have them struggle to take my boss NPCs down for several rounds. Sure, they should take enough damage to be threatened, but i generally try for them being able to survive 2-3 hits unless they're particularly squishy or get an unlucky crit.
(And then have the NPC escape if feasible. Man, my players are so incredibly paranoid about applying Dimensional Anchor and things like that.:smallbiggrin:)


Yeah, that's how I prefer them too.

[Dagroth]

I realize it's another Feat, but have you considered Pious Templar instead of Blackguard?

[danielxcutter]

I realize it's another Feat, but have you considered Pious Templar instead of Blackguard?

I thought Pious Templar doesn't get Dark Blessing or any of the other Charisma synergies that Blackguards can get?

[Crake]

If you want to tone down Iaijutsu master, it's really as simple as putting less focus on her charisma. Just drop her cha mod from +12 to the standard succubus cha of 26, for +8, which both drops her iaijutsu focus skill bonus and the extra damage she does down from 6d6+72 to 6d6+48. Then you can use the extra ability points to boost her con, str and dex up.

Keep in mind though that she DOES have 22HD, meaning she can actually take a single epic feat. With defenses as high as she has, why not give her improved combat reflexes and robilar's gambit? That could be an interesting build?

[danielxcutter]

If you want to tone down Iaijutsu master, it's really as simple as putting less focus on her charisma. Just drop her cha mod from +12 to the standard succubus cha of 26, for +8, which both drops her iaijutsu focus skill bonus and the extra damage she does down from 6d6+72 to 6d6+48. Then you can use the extra ability points to boost her con, str and dex up.

...Nah, good offense wasn't the point in the first place. As I've said multiple times, overpowered defenses are less likely to tick off your players than overpowered attacks. I mean, the original build is super defensive, but offensive-wise less so - so the players will have a chance of defeating her if they plan accordingly. Your Iajutsu Master build, though, will almost certainly kill off - or at least come extremely close to - anyone who doesn't have a ton of hit points. Do your players highly optimize when it comes to defenses?


Keep in mind though that she DOES have 22HD, meaning she can actually take a single epic feat. With defenses as high as she has, why not give her improved combat reflexes and robilar's gambit? That could be an interesting build?

And finally something that I can actually consider. I dunno about the example you've given, because most martials are useless enough against this build. No need to punish them further. But there are other options, I guess.

[Crake]

...Nah, good offense wasn't the point in the first place. As I've said multiple times, overpowered defenses are less likely to tick off your players than overpowered attacks. I mean, the original build is super defensive, but offensive-wise less so - so the players will have a chance of defeating her if they plan accordingly. Your Iajutsu Master build, though, will almost certainly kill off - or at least come extremely close to - anyone who doesn't have a ton of hit points. Do your players highly optimize when it comes to defenses?

And finally something that I can actually consider. I dunno about the example you've given, because most martials are useless enough against this build. No need to punish them further. But there are other options, I guess.

I'd say give her permanent emnation antimagic field, but then half her abilities wouldn't function. Admittedly, mundane flight plus antimagic field, plus a bow and arrow does make for pretty incredible defense, with fairly ordinary offense, slow, but consistent? Give her 8 levels of ur-priest to give her access to antimagic field, plus 6 levels of fighter for feats, a level of battledancer for Ex cha to AC, and saves be damned, because AMF makes 90% of saving throws irrelevant. The only real solution will either be instantaneous conjurations (most of which are pretty short range), or the party martials shooting arrows back at her, and on her turn if she wants to escape, she can turn off the AMF as a free action and teleport away.

[danielxcutter]

I'd say give her permanent emnation antimagic field, but then half her abilities wouldn't function. Admittedly, mundane flight plus antimagic field, plus a bow and arrow does make for pretty incredible defense, with fairly ordinary offense, slow, but consistent? Give her 8 levels of ur-priest to give her access to antimagic field, plus 6 levels of fighter for feats, a level of battledancer for Ex cha to AC, and saves be damned, because AMF makes 90% of saving throws irrelevant. The only real solution will either be instantaneous conjurations (most of which are pretty short range), or the party martials shooting arrows back at her, and on her turn if she wants to escape, she can turn off the AMF as a free action and teleport away.

...ever hear of the Shrink Item + paper cone hat trick?

Also, I'm more in the market for stuff that would be useful for the Succubus Fighter 2/Blackguard 7/Nar Demonbinder build. I replaced Hexblade with Fighter because Charisma to saves once is enough.

[Crake]

...ever hear of the Shrink Item + paper cone hat trick?

Also, I'm more in the market for stuff that would be useful for the Succubus Fighter 2/Blackguard 7/Nar Demonbinder build. I replaced Hexblade with Fighter because Charisma to saves once is enough.

That trick only works if people use the amf offensively, if you're flying about in the air using the AMF to remain impervious to spells, while peppering people with arrows (while also maintaining your DR, so arrows shot back at you do significantly less damage unless they're cold iron) then the cone hat doesn't really do anything.

I'm sure there's a way to pick up AMF on nar demonbinder instead somehow? Arcane disciple for the magic domain or something?

[danielxcutter]

That trick only works if people use the amf offensively, if you're flying about in the air using the AMF to remain impervious to spells, while peppering people with arrows (while also maintaining your DR, so arrows shot back at you do significantly less damage unless they're cold iron) then the cone hat doesn't really do anything.

I'm sure there's a way to pick up AMF on nar demonbinder instead somehow? Arcane disciple for the magic domain or something?

I believe the Orb of X series and the Vitrolic Blast among others can attack things inside AMFs provided caster is outside said AMF.

[Crake]

I believe the Orb of X series and the Vitrolic Blast among others can attack things inside AMFs provided caster is outside said AMF.

Correct, but they are short range spells, easily outranged by a longbow, and additionally need to bypass the succubus' cha-boosted AC, since a battledancer's bonus AC applies to touch AC, so they will have quite some trouble hitting even if they are in range. Vitriolic blast doesn't actually get through an AMF, since it's not an instantaneous conjuration, it's a ray that ignores spell resistance.

[danielxcutter]

Correct, but they are short range spells, easily outranged by a longbow, and additionally need to bypass the succubus' cha-boosted AC, since a battledancer's bonus AC applies to touch AC, so they will have quite some trouble hitting even if they are in range. Vitriolic blast doesn't actually get through an AMF, since it's not an instantaneous conjuration, it's a ray that ignores spell resistance.

Okay, okay, but anything for my intended build?