AL newbie

[GilesTheCleric]

Hey all,

I'm new to 5e, only played a few times during the playtest and once or twice after. I've got the PHB, and was thinking about playing in the local AL (about the only TTRPG within tens of miles of my area). However, I'm not super comfortable with the rules of the game yet. So, what character could I build and play to get a better grasp of them? In other editions, I prefer to play support casters, but I'm willing to play anything, so long as it has more options than just move+attack.

And, a question about AL. Does it use a battlemat? And, what's the max/ min number of players at a table?

[mgshamster]

AL Games have a player requirement of 3-7 players.

Some use a battle mat, some do not. DM dependent.

Every class gives plenty of options during play (some more during chargen, some not), but as 5e allows for a lot more creativity in play, any of the classes will give plenty of options so long as you're creative.

If all you choose to do with your champion (the class considered the most "boring") is attack, then it will be boring. My champion tends to do more than half the casters out there.

Due to skills, background features, and maneuver rules of 5e (such as shove and grapple), your options during play are much more open than just what your class provides.

[GilesTheCleric]

AL Games have a player requirement of 3-7 players.

Some use a battle mat, some do not. DM dependent.

Every class gives plenty of options during play (some more during chargen, some not), but as 5e allows for a lot more creativity in play, any of the classes will give plenty of options so long as you're creative.

If all you choose to do with your champion (the class considered the most "boring") is attack, then it will be boring. My champion tends to do more than half the casters out there.

Due to skills, background features, and maneuver rules of 5e (such as shove and grapple), your options during play are much more open than just what your class provides.

I'd like to have some mechanical variety to my class, since I can RP and be creative in any edition. My goal is to become familiar with the mechanics of this edition, so a class that engages well with things like you mentioned, shoving and grappling, or other class-based mechanics would be ideal.

[iTreeby]

My first character was a wood elf rogue, I think it helped me understand the value of a bonus action, if you went high elf arcane trickster I think you would have a class that teaches the rules as it advances pretty well.

[mgshamster]

I'd like to have some mechanical variety to my class, since I can RP and be creative in any edition. My goal is to become familiar with the mechanics of this edition, so a class that engages well with things like you mentioned, shoving and grappling, or other class-based mechanics would be ideal.

Previous editions had a false appearance of options. For example, despite grappling be technically available to every character, if you didn't take the specific feat chain to specialize in it, it was not a viable option in the game.

In 5e, there is no specializing in grappling. All you need is a decent strength and proficiency in Athletics. And even if you don't have that, the swinginess of the d20 combined with bounded accuracy still makes it a viable option. Every character can reasonably do grappling (with those who dump strength and Dex to simply be not as good).

For you, though, I'd recommend the battlemaster fighter. Provides more mechanical options in both chargen and in play, while still allowing you tons of freedoms.

In general, there are two main methods for learning 5e: 1) Go with a mechanically challenging class to learn the mechanics. 2) Go with a mechanically limited class to learn that the system doesn't constrain you to the mechanics.

People who come from 3.X/4e have a hard time with option 2.

[GilesTheCleric]

My first character was a wood elf rogue, I think it helped me understand the value of a bonus action, if you went high elf arcane trickster I think you would have a class that teaches the rules as it advances pretty well.
Learning about all these different types of actions (action, bonus, reaction... are there any other types?) is good. I'll think about a rogue, then.

Previous editions had a false appearance of options. For example, despite grappling be technically available to every character, if you didn't take the specific feat chain to specialize in it, it was not a viable option in the game.

In 5e, there is no specializing in grappling. All you need is a decent strength and proficiency in Athletics. And even if you don't have that, the swinginess of the d20 combined with bounded accuracy still makes it a viable option. Every character can reasonably do grappling (with those who dump strength and Dex to simply be not as good).

For you, though, I'd recommend the battlemaster fighter. Provides more mechanical options in both chargen and in play, while still allowing you tons of freedoms.

In general, there are two main methods for learning 5e: 1) Go with a mechanically challenging class to learn the mechanics. 2) Go with a mechanically limited class to learn that the system doesn't constrain you to the mechanics.

People who come from 3.X/4e have a hard time with option 2.
I agree that other editions could definitely easily outscale character ability, since they weren't using bounded numbers. However, I think I'd really still prefer to learn about the RAW mechanics, as, like I said, it's possible to be creative in any edition. If having a high str or athletics check is suitable for consistently being able to engage with grappling mechanics, then rolling up a fighter sounds like a good way to do that.

So, are you suggesting that I might be able to learn about more things if I make a fairly generalist character? Or should I specialise in one or a few approaches?

[mgshamster]

. So, are you suggesting that I might be able to learn about more things if I make a fairly generalist character? Or should I specialise in one or a few approaches?

If you want to learn the maneuvers and non-spell aspects of the game in both a mechanical and non-mechanical aspect, you'd be hard pressed to find a better option than the battlemaster fighter*.

Be aware that the battlemaster has its own specialized versions of maneuvers which supercede the general maneuvers. But really, all that does is give you the option to use either.

For learning the spell mechanics, pick randomly for the full casters, but he aware that divine and arcane spell prep work differently.

*The thief provides a good challenge to the battlemaster; while they don't get as many attack options, they get a ton of bonus action options which completely changes the dynamic of combat.

[GilesTheCleric]

If you want to learn the maneuvers and non-spell aspects of the game in both a mechanical and non-mechanical aspect, you'd be hard pressed to find a better option than the battlemaster fighter*.

Be aware that the battlemaster has its own specialized versions of maneuvers which supercede the general maneuvers. But really, all that does is give you the option to use either.

For learning the spell mechanics, pick randomly for the full casters, but he aware that divine and arcane spell prep work differently.

*The thief provides a good challenge to the battlemaster; while they don't get as many attack options, they get a ton of bonus action options which completely changes the dynamic of combat.

Battlemaster is sounding like a good choice, then. Do you think it's better than a rogue? And, if I roll up a caster, should I stick to single classing for now? I think I remember that theurge casters have a funky spell progression based on their total level, rather than the levels of their individuals classes. I might be remembering that incorrectly, though.

[mgshamster]

Battlemaster is sounding like a good choice, then. Do you think it's better than a rogue? And, if I roll up a caster, should I stick to single classing for now? I think I remember that theurge casters have a funky spell progression based on their total level, rather than the levels of their individuals classes. I might be remembering that incorrectly, though.

Battlemaster and thief are both solid options. They just play very differently.

The battlemaster will primarily use your action to attack, and then you add on to it with extra dice to do special things.

The thief uses your action to attack with sneak attack (easy to get; either you have advantage or an ally is next to the enemy). Then the thief uses their bonus action to change the Dynamics of battle by quickly hiding, dashing, disengaging, or even stealing something off your enemy.

As for casters, you are correct. The number of spell slots you get (which is different than the number of spells you prepare) is cumulative by your caster levels all added together. So you could end up with being able to cast 5th level spells, but only have access to 2nd level spells (most spells can be upcast by using a higher level slot).

All in all, being a single classed character may be the best option for now.

One advantage you have for Adventurer's League is that you can get complete 100% rebuilds between each game up to level 5. This will allow you to explore lots of different mechanics in the game. Be careful, though; when you reach level 5, you can't do that anymore, and you may end up with a character you don't enjoy.

[GilesTheCleric]

Battlemaster and thief are both solid options. They just play very differently.

The battlemaster will primarily use your action to attack, and then you add on to it with extra dice to do special things.

The thief uses your action to attack with sneak attack (easy to get; either you have advantage or an ally is next to the enemy). Then the thief uses their bonus action to change the Dynamics of battle by quickly hiding, dashing, disengaging, or even stealing something off your enemy.

As for casters, you are correct. The number of spell slots you get (which is different than the number of spells you prepare) is cumulative by your caster levels all added together. So you could end up with being able to cast 5th level spells, but only have access to 2nd level spells (most spells can be upcast by using a higher level slot).

All in all, being a single classed character may be the best option for now.

One advantage you have for Adventurer's League is that you can get complete 100% rebuilds between each game up to level 5. This will allow you to explore lots of different mechanics in the game. Be careful, though; when you reach level 5, you can't do that anymore, and you may end up with a character you don't enjoy.

Alright, thank you for the help.

The AL FAQ says that only a few variants are allowed (customising ability scores, vhuman, vhalf-elf, human languages, vtiefling, and the battlemat). Are they all legal to use, or might some be disallowed at a given table? You mentioned that battlemats were optional. Edit: And are feats allowed? I remember those being mentioned as an optional rule.

[mgshamster]

Alright, thank you for the help.

The AL FAQ says that only a few variants are allowed (customising ability scores, vhuman, vhalf-elf, human languages, vtiefling, and the battlemat). Are they all legal to use, or might some be disallowed at a given table? You mentioned that battlemats were optional. Edit: And are feats allowed? I remember those being mentioned as an optional rule.

Fest are allowed. Otherwise the variant human would be useless. :) If the AL Guide says it's legal to use, then it's legal. That's one thing the DM can't change. But battlemats are not a requirement. Some GMs use them, some don't.

Big thing to remember: you can only use the PHB +1 other book. Exception: background. For backgrounds, you're not limited to which book you use.

[CaptainSarathai]

Cleric, Paladin, or a Valor Bard would give you a good cross-section of both Magic and Combat.
Personally, I'd say Cleric. You like playing support guys, and the Cleric is pretty good at that before you pick your Domain. And then for Domain, I'd take anything except Life, as that pigeonholes you into Support. I'd go War, personally. That would give you a character who's pretty sturdy in a fight, has mechanics that use all of your Actions, lots of choices for what to do, and let's you cast spells and swing swords just like anyone else.

Paladin is like the Cleric but more of a melee boss. You have spells, but usually they're just fuel for Smiting, to deal extra damage in melee.

Bard is a full caster, and the best Support in the game, plus can take spells from any list (at certain levels) and gets huge boosts to their non-combat skills. Going Valor gives you some fighty capabilities, but not to the extent of a War Cleric and especially not a Paladin. Going Bard let's you participate the most at the table, both in and out of fights. You have tons of skills, you're decent in a fight, you can cast spells, etc.

[Socratov]

Oh come off it you all. 5e's main point is its simplicity and its DM dependancy.

OP, just play something you like and you think you will have fun with. Especially if you play AL you will start at lvl 1 and can't help to get to your features one at a time. If you aren't sure what a thing does or if something comes up, ask your DM and go on.

5E is simple and you don't need training wheel classes or to 'ramp up the difficulty slowly'. Just go for whatever seems interesting to you.

[Klorox]

Bard is a full caster, and the best Support in the game, plus can take spells from any list (at certain levels) and gets huge boosts to their non-combat skills. Going Valor gives you some fighty capabilities, but not to the extent of a War Cleric and especially not a Paladin. Going Bard let's you participate the most at the table, both in and out of fights. You have tons of skills, you're decent in a fight, you can cast spells, etc.
I agree. Bards will never be the most effective character in any situation, at least not if the other characters are optimized, but they can contribute in just about any situation, which makes them a whole lot of fun.

[mgshamster]

Oh come off it you all. 5e's main point is its simplicity and its DM dependancy.

OP, just play something you like and you think you will have fun with. Especially if you play AL you will start at lvl 1 and can't help to get to your features one at a time. If you aren't sure what a thing does or if something comes up, ask your DM and go on.

5E is simple and you don't need training wheel classes or to 'ramp up the difficulty slowly'. Just go for whatever seems interesting to you.

So, basically the very first answer in this thread. :smallamused:

[djreynolds]

Watch a gladiator movie first

No but watch say 300 and see that there are actions taken that are not just attacking

As they set themselves to receive a charge, they are taking the dodge action

As they push out with a shield, they are using the attack action for a contest of strength vs strength or agility

If they were wounded, they use their action to back away freely and disengage

Just break it down

[Socratov]

So, basically the very first answer in this thread. :smallamused:

Not entirely. And certainly not with so many words, nor as emphatically. :smallamused:

[mgshamster]

Not entirely. And certainly not with so many words, nor as emphatically. :smallamused:

Touché.

(Need at least 10 characters)

[coredump]

I agree. Bards will never be the most effective character in any situation, at least not if the other characters are optimized, but they can contribute in just about any situation, which makes them a whole lot of fun.

You may never notice when the bard is there....but you will always notice when he is missing.

They are not splashy, but man are they helpful to have around.

[GilesTheCleric]

Cleric, Paladin, or a Valor Bard would give you a good cross-section of both Magic and Combat.
Personally, I'd say Cleric. You like playing support guys, and the Cleric is pretty good at that before you pick your Domain. And then for Domain, I'd take anything except Life, as that pigeonholes you into Support. I'd go War, personally. That would give you a character who's pretty sturdy in a fight, has mechanics that use all of your Actions, lots of choices for what to do, and let's you cast spells and swing swords just like anyone else.

Paladin is like the Cleric but more of a melee boss. You have spells, but usually they're just fuel for Smiting, to deal extra damage in melee.

Bard is a full caster, and the best Support in the game, plus can take spells from any list (at certain levels) and gets huge boosts to their non-combat skills. Going Valor gives you some fighty capabilities, but not to the extent of a War Cleric and especially not a Paladin. Going Bard let's you participate the most at the table, both in and out of fights. You have tons of skills, you're decent in a fight, you can cast spells, etc.
Those are some compelling points. Which of the three works best at low levels/ level 1?


Oh come off it you all. 5e's main point is its simplicity and its DM dependancy.

OP, just play something you like and you think you will have fun with. Especially if you play AL you will start at lvl 1 and can't help to get to your features one at a time. If you aren't sure what a thing does or if something comes up, ask your DM and go on.

5E is simple and you don't need training wheel classes or to 'ramp up the difficulty slowly'. Just go for whatever seems interesting to you.

Hopefully if I'm playing AL, there won't be too much GM dependancy. I'm interested in becoming well-versed in the mechanics since I usually end up GMing for non-organised games. And, I trust all of your opinions on what might be fun to play based on my preference (support casters), since you know all the classes and how they work much better than do I.


I agree. Bards will never be the most effective character in any situation, at least not if the other characters are optimized, but they can contribute in just about any situation, which makes them a whole lot of fun.

Being able to contribute in many situations sounds ideal for using lots of game mechanics. I don't have to be the best at something in order to have fun at the table.

[ATHATH]

I forget- does (the) AL allow you to use material from Unearthed Arcana?

[GilesTheCleric]

I forget- does (the) AL allow you to use material from Unearthed Arcana?

I don't believe so, but I've only read the FAQ and not the player's guide yet.

[Socratov]

(snip)
Hopefully if I'm playing AL, there won't be too much GM dependancy. I'm interested in becoming well-versed in the mechanics since I usually end up GMing for non-organised games. And, I trust all of your opinions on what might be fun to play based on my preference (support casters), since you know all the classes and how they work much better than do I.
(snip)
GM dependancy is kinda built into 5e by the designer's approach of "rulings over rules". this has led to some entertaining and some blood curdling discussion over RAW and what it (should) means. But luckily GMs in AL have a slightly tighter set of constrictions so they are not as free to rule ay way they want and definitely need to keep to the story. It has its upsides and downsides so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

On what you ask, most classes can employ a support role: monks can grapple and pave the way for the blender to see if everything will blend. Same for just about every class. I think every class has the ability to support the rest (but then again, that's what you'd expect in a teamgame, right?). Some are better at supporting then others like casters and most notoriously lore bards and divination wizards (the ability to say nope, your next roll will be an X is huuge).

I forget- does (the) AL allow you to use material from Unearthed Arcana?

Short answer: no. Longer answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo~ (you get the gist).