Arcane Trickster/Bladesinger Spell Help!

[SMac8988]

Hello all, as a follow up to a previous post, I have decided to add 2 levels, at least, of Bladesinger to my arcane trickster build.

I am looking for help on spell selection and options to make this build strongly utility and anyway I can increase my chance at advantage and sneak attack.

I just hit level 3 and went trickster, and we ended the session so all my spells are open to pick at this time

Cantrips I was thinking Mage Hand, Booming Blade and Minor Illusion.

Bumps up my dps, and punishes enemies if they chase me, and gives me a good bit of ulitiy for scouting ahead.

But that's it. I was looking at fog cloud as an escape plan, or maybe find family for a help actions.

Please help!!!

[Specter]

Booming Blade is literally mandatory for melee tricksters. That free damage boost combined with Cunning Action is too good.

For 1st-level, pick Tasha's (solid debuffing against stupid foes), Disguise Self (for party face stuff). Then, either Find Familiar or Fog Cloud, both good at combat for advantage or free hiding.

[SMac8988]

Booming Blade is literally mandatory for melee tricksters. That free damage boost combined with Cunning Action is too good.

For 1st-level, pick Tasha's (solid debuffing against stupid foes), Disguise Self (for party face stuff). Then, either Find Familiar or Fog Cloud, both good at combat for advantage or free hiding.

I love the idea of dropping fog cloud, attacking for sneak attack booming blade, then cunning action hide away. Then they take damage trying to find me in the cloud.

I was looking at mobility as my level 4 feat. Then going into blade singer, and slowly building my spell book from there. That int to ac will be really nice.

[djreynolds]

Its a great combo, but remember to add in some spells for other uses.

Web is a really good spell just to create a cheap barrier. Don't forget feather fall, your cleric might need it.

I like mobile but you do have cunning action right there, both are great. Its up to you. Remember now as a wizard the more intelligence the more spells you can prepare for the day. So I would buff intelligence 1st.

Invisibility and find familiar are good spells as are blur, mirror image, misty step (as good as mobile/cunning action/disengage)

What a fun combo it is.

[SMac8988]

I was thinking level 4 get mobility, that was I can attack; booming blade, then run off, bonus action hide. Then if they walk past while I'm hidden, Espically in the fog, I can attack of opertunity for a other sneak attack.

My next two ability mods would go to int and dex. Then pick up possibly either war caster, so I can booming blade on my attacks of op, or resilient con, that way I have the big three saves covered.

Invisible seems so good for this build. Sneak in, Booming blade, it they live run away and they take more damage. I was looking at feather fall mainly cause we are doing "Out of the Abyss" and I've already almost fallen to my death once.

Thanks for the advice. My DM said he would like to have my character "find" my wizard spell book when I take those levels. Make the level up more in game, but wants to know what spells it starts with. Any suggestions there?

[SMac8988]

Also, I have a really hard time with tracking spell caster level, been an issue this whole edition.

Level 4 arcane trickster = level 1 1/3 caster, rounded down to 1.

Level 2 Bladesinger = level 2 caster.

So am I a level 3 caster at that point?

[Citan]

Hello all, as a follow up to a previous post, I have decided to add 2 levels, at least, of Bladesinger to my arcane trickster build.

I am looking for help on spell selection and options to make this build strongly utility and anyway I can increase my chance at advantage and sneak attack.

I just hit level 3 and went trickster, and we ended the session so all my spells are open to pick at this time

Cantrips I was thinking Mage Hand, Booming Blade and Minor Illusion.

Bumps up my dps, and punishes enemies if they chase me, and gives me a good bit of ulitiy for scouting ahead.

But that's it. I was looking at fog cloud as an escape plan, or maybe find family for a help actions.

Please help!!!
Hi!
Excellent choice!
Even if it means you have to delay the great Uncanny Dodge for two levels, you will not lose much overall since (or at least I guess so) the AC bonus from Bladesong will make you harder to hit, and you will have more slots for Shield also. ;)

SO. Considering that you will go Wizard for your 4th and 5th character level, I would suggest...

Shield: you can retrain it later when you get Wizard (unless you want to always have it) but for now it will be invaluable, even if you have very few slots.

Find Familiar: same kind of thing, it is a nice idea as long as you retrain it later (especially with Wizard being able to ritual cast).

Fog Cloud is always a good spell to have, useful in many situations.

Magic Missile: I would honestly go with this because, at your current level, it still means something damage-wise, and the autohit makes it extremely valuable in tight situations. Obviously you would have to retrain it after going Wizard, because once you get a few more levels it will become too weak damage-wise to be worth an AT spell known.

Comprehend Languages: before you get your Wizard level, it is one of the best uses for your few slots, as it allows you to make social interactions / spying much easier. After Wizard, retrain it, because you can ritual-cast it as Wizard anyways.

Sleep: still powerful at your current level, will drop in 2-3 levels. Can be kept in your Wizard spellbook in case of (still useful sometimes in some social interactions).

Silent Image: can be used in different ways, if you like being creative this is a good one.

Basically: once you are a Wizard, you can inscribe potentially any and all spells in your book. This means, not only can you retrain your AT spells later, with a bit of lenient DM, you could, before retraining, inscribe them as Wizard spells in your book.
I don't know how RAW this would be, considering that the usual way for a Wizard to learn extra spells is to study writings, whereas Arcane Tricksters just know "by memory". On the other hand, Arcane Tricksters do study Wizardry magic and learn spells from Wizard list. So it basically boils down to the question "is an Arcane Trickster supposed to be able to write down on paper, in 'arcanic writing' understandable by a Wizard, the spells he learned?" No clue about RAW, but I'd say yes (at least for himself).
I really don't see how this could be game-breaking, and instead find this very fitting for such a character. Hence I would definitely allow it as a DM, whether it is RAI or a clear houserule.

(After all, don't forget that if you lose your Wizard spellbook for whatever reason, you are stuck with cantrips, the spells you currently prepared as Wizard, and your known spells as Arcane Trickster).

So, in short, pick spells you want to use NOW, because once you get your Wizard level you can get them all. ;)


My DM said he would like to have my character "find" my wizard spell book when I take those levels. Make the level up more in game, but wants to know what spells it starts with. Any suggestions there?
For cantrips, I would suggest Minor Illusion (versatile utility), Mold Earth (idem), Green Flame Blade (so you have another good cantrip) and Firebolt/Ray of Frost/Frostbite so you have a ranged cantrip with a nice rider.

For spells, depending on what you have already as AT...
"mandatory": Shield, Chromatic Orb, Mage Armor, Feather Fall, Fog Cloud, Find Familiar.
"great": Burning Hands (good AOE for someone with mobility), Thunderwave (escape button), Ray of Sickness (targeting CON is tough, but poisoned condition is great).
"useful" (situational): Sleep, Magic Missile, Grease, Jump, Longstrider, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self.

Don't forget to ask your DM if he would allow you to write down your AT spells in your Wizard spellbook.
If so, it means you can expand your spellbook much quicker because, on each level you gain, you can retrain 1 spell in addition to whatever spell you learn, whether you level as a Wizard or as a Rogue.
Another option is to ask your DM if you could fulfill a quest, or go see a magic shop in a high-magic city (like a city with a powerful Wizard guild) to learn rituals. Many are great to have: Identify, Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Unseen Servant to name a few. :)

[SMac8988]

Hi!
Excellent choice!
Even if it means you have to delay the great Uncanny Dodge for two levels, you will not lose much overall since (or at least I guess so) the AC bonus from Bladesong will make you harder to hit, and you will have more slots for Shield also. ;)

SO. Considering that you will go Wizard for your 4th and 5th character level, I would suggest...

Shield: you can retrain it later when you get Wizard (unless you want to always have it) but for now it will be invaluable, even if you have very few slots.

Find Familiar: same kind of thing, it is a nice idea as long as you retrain it later (especially with Wizard being able to ritual cast).

Fog Cloud is always a good spell to have, useful in many situations.

Magic Missile: I would honestly go with this because, at your current level, it still means something damage-wise, and the autohit makes it extremely valuable in tight situations. Obviously you would have to retrain it after going Wizard, because once you get a few more levels it will become too weak damage-wise to be worth an AT spell known.

Comprehend Languages: before you get your Wizard level, it is one of the best uses for your few slots, as it allows you to make social interactions / spying much easier. After Wizard, retrain it, because you can ritual-cast it as Wizard anyways.

Sleep: still powerful at your current level, will drop in 2-3 levels. Can be kept in your Wizard spellbook in case of (still useful sometimes in some social interactions).

Silent Image: can be used in different ways, if you like being creative this is a good one.

Basically: once you are a Wizard, you can inscribe potentially any and all spells in your book. This means, not only can you retrain your AT spells later, with a bit of lenient DM, you could, before retraining, inscribe them as Wizard spells in your book.
I don't know how RAW this would be, considering that the usual way for a Wizard to learn extra spells is to study writings, whereas Arcane Tricksters just know "by memory". On the other hand, Arcane Tricksters do study Wizardry magic and learn spells from Wizard list. So it basically boils down to the question "is an Arcane Trickster supposed to be able to write down on paper, in 'arcanic writing' understandable by a Wizard, the spells he learned?" No clue about RAW, but I'd say yes (at least for himself).
I really don't see how this could be game-breaking, and instead find this very fitting for such a character. Hence I would definitely allow it as a DM, whether it is RAI or a clear houserule.

(After all, don't forget that if you lose your Wizard spellbook for whatever reason, you are stuck with cantrips, the spells you currently prepared as Wizard, and your known spells as Arcane Trickster).

So, in short, pick spells you want to use NOW, because once you get your Wizard level you can get them all. ;)


For cantrips, I would suggest Minor Illusion (versatile utility), Mold Earth (idem), Green Flame Blade (so you have another good cantrip) and Firebolt/Ray of Frost/Frostbite so you have a ranged cantrip with a nice rider.

For spells, depending on what you have already as AT...
"mandatory": Shield, Chromatic Orb, Mage Armor, Feather Fall, Fog Cloud, Find Familiar.
"great": Burning Hands (good AOE for someone with mobility), Thunderwave (escape button), Ray of Sickness (targeting CON is tough, but poisoned condition is great).
"useful" (situational): Sleep, Magic Missile, Grease, Jump, Longstrider, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self.

Don't forget to ask your DM if he would allow you to write down your AT spells in your Wizard spellbook.
If so, it means you can expand your spellbook much quicker because, on each level you gain, you can retrain 1 spell in addition to whatever spell you learn, whether you level as a Wizard or as a Rogue.
Another option is to ask your DM if you could fulfill a quest, or go see a magic shop in a high-magic city (like a city with a powerful Wizard guild) to learn rituals. Many are great to have: Identify, Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Unseen Servant to name a few. :)

I immediately texted him asking about this as soon as I read it. That is amazing! We are in the underdark so I am sure I can find spell scrolls and maybe a teacher or two to help me out.

I gotta figure how it will play into my character design, and the devolpment of him to do more spell stuff