Optimizing a theme: drunken master

[Desteplo]

Assuming point buy:
Monk with a 2/3lvl dip into barbarian and maybe a lvl into fighter
-there are two options here:
-Optimize and do a dex barbarian dip, and just focus on monk stats. (Dex/wis)
-theme and do a strength monk focusing on barbarian stats (str/con)

The build is based on Jackie Chans drunken master. But wondered how would one work over the other? That 2 damage stacks pretty high to 8 points in a strength build. The rage also decreases all the damage taken. So lower AC isn't as much of a hindrance. But mad as heck

-on the other hand you still get reckless attack and advantage on dex saves from lvl 2 (even if first lvl barbarian doesn't add anything)

What are you're thoughts? Is it worth sacrificing the AC for damage and theme? Or is dex build outweigh the sacrifices.

[Athoren]

You should be able to get by with out focusing on dex if your other ac stat is good.

[Arkhios]

If you're open to homebrew (and your DM allows them), I'd suggest to check out my signature! :smallsmile:

[Quoxis]

With point buy or standard array: don't do it. The build works well (and is hella fun) with high stats, but you'll lag behind others for quite a while.
Ideally you'll start barb, have highest str (for rage damage) followed by con (for hp and ac), then either dex (if you want to get hit less) or wis (if you want to use your monk features that rely on it), go a few barb levels (2 for reckless attack, 3 for totem, which would obviously be bear judging by how much jackie can take, 4 for the ASI, but that's where i'd stop) and the rest monk.
If you start as a vuman, take the tavern brawler feat and decide whether to attack with monk weapon/fist and get bonus action attacks or with improvised weapons/fist and get bonus action grapples, though that's more for the typical i-fight-using-the-furniture-around-me-style than for optimization.

[ATHATH]

I think the new UA just solved your problem, provided that the Drunken Master that they provided us isn't terrible.

[Desteplo]

I think the new UA just solved your problem, provided that the Drunken Master that they provided us isn't terrible.

I thought the same thing ;) though even still. I may multiclass 2/3 lvls in barbarian. They went with the technique And more realism. Instead of the 3.5 prestige class or basing it off of Jackie chan movies

. Adding Barbarian fits that niche for me, maybe a level in fighter for the second wind (since open palm had that lvl6 handled)

Actually open hand fits the arc of Jackie chan way better. Way of Drunken master is less a fantasy drunken master. Still undecided.

Seems insane though. No need for "mobile" feat. Instant disengage+10 move on flurry!

[Desteplo]

If you're open to homebrew (and your DM allows them), I'd suggest to check out my signature! :smallsmile:

I'm looking at it. And it just looks like a drunk brawler. Not necessarily a monk

[Arkhios]

I'm looking at it. And it just looks like a drunk brawler.

...and how's that different from Jackie Chan's Drunken Master? At the very least, this one can belch fire. Unlike the (imho) boring UA-version :smalltongue:

Seriously though, I based most of it on the 3.5 prestige class. Which most definitely required at least some levels of monk. Granted, I spiced it up with some of my own visions of drunken boxing.

[Desteplo]

...and how's that different from Jackie Chan's Drunken Master? At the very least, this one can belch fire. Unlike the (imho) boring UA-version :smalltongue:

Seriously though, I based most of it on the 3.5 prestige class. Which most definitely required at least some levels of monk. Granted, I spiced it up with some of my own visions of drunken boxing.

The mirror reckless attack for bonus damage is opposite of a monk. You aren't honed. You are just drunk. Drunken masters are supposed to know their limit. It helps loosen the body to improve your combat. Gaining disadvantages is exact opposite. feels like a feat (that can go on any character) more than a feature.

I read that 3.5 prestige. It was interesting.
The UA I agree could have been more fantasy. But fits to a more realistic drunken boxer.

[MBControl]

Theme-wise, I think you have to focus on dex. They style is based on the not just being drunk, but the appearance of being drunk. It's meant to create unpredictable movement, and ability to naturally roll with strikes, avoiding the main brunt of the damage.

Performance is the basis of the style.

Can this optimized with other classes, sure, but I still think that the theme lends itself to masterful agility.

[Desteplo]

Theme-wise, I think you have to focus on dex. They style is based on the not just being drunk, but the appearance of being drunk. It's meant to create unpredictable movement, and ability to naturally roll with strikes, avoiding the main brunt of the damage.

Performance is the basis of the style.

Can this optimized with other classes, sure, but I still think that the theme lends itself to masterful agility.

Right. That's why rage is important though. It gives resistance to attacks that drunken master shakes off. And bonus action rage is essentially bonus action drink. That's why multiclassing.

And if it's just a matter of preformance than just having the skill is enough.

And that's the point. They just released a UA for drunken master which I can now just slip into. But that's not all the theme I wanted. Barbarian adds that tweak I wanted that's missing from the archetype.

[Arkhios]

The mirror reckless attack for bonus damage is opposite of a monk. You aren't honed. You are just drunk. Drunken masters are supposed to know their limit. It helps loosen the body to improve your combat. Gaining disadvantages is exact opposite. feels like a feat (that can go on any character) more than a feature.

I read that 3.5 prestige. It was interesting.
The UA I agree could have been more fantasy. But fits to a more realistic drunken boxer.

I must say, that was a bit harsh. I tried to keep "being drunk" mostly a ribbon for the tradition, which the Drink Like a Demon feature is, except for the brewer's supplies proficiency. Admittedly, For Medicinal Purposes is a bit more drunkard-esque feature, but honestly, I wouldn't say that's too much so. Then again, I could just as well replace it with something else.

But the rest of the abilities, honestly, I tried to paint a picture of a "controlled chaos", where the focus is in your own elusiveness. The "bonus" damage is there to alleviate the reduced chance to hit. But when you hit, you strike surprisingly hard. Kinda like a monk's "sneak attack" (though, now that I think of it, I guess the feature could just as well be modeled from sneak attack instead). Using Erratic Style doesn't mean that you'd have to be drunk. At least I didn't mean that. I figured forcing disadvantage on attacks against you and likewise to your own attacks would work for a wobbly and seemingly unpredictable fighting technique, which Drunken Boxing is, as far as I know. Yes, monk is in full control of it. But my take of that control is actually being on the defensive, not on the offensive.

I have to agree, though, that the UA version is better for realistic drunken boxer. Then again, isn't D&D supposed to be fantasy game?

Also, as an aside, consuming alcohol every now and then doesn't immediately make one a drunk. Excessive consumption is what does.

[Theodoxus]

Excessive consumption is what does.

I'd argue compulsory consumption - but that's a quibble...

Never really thought of combining monk and barbarian... I guess my issue is you either have too few rages, or not enough Ki to be decent... you get to what, play the drunk master role twice a day? Seems overwhelmingly meh.

If rage were instead converted into rounds rather than minutes (because how often does a combat last 10 rounds?) It'd be better (and better represent the mystical drunken masters ability to Drink Like A Demon and then be instantly calm and serene).