'Dream' Spell: Surprisingly Worldbreaking?

[rudy]

One of my players is a Warlock with the Dream spell. He cleverly uses it to harass enemies, and has the Warlock invocation so that he doesn't have to sleep. Good on him.

The problem I'm having is one of trying to keep a consistent world. This spell is utterly horrifying, and nigh-unblockable, when used in its nightmare form. I can't figure out any logical reason that, for example, conclaves of Red Wizards aren't using this to remotely assassinate/drive to utter insanity any inconvenient political figures of other nations. Or their own nation, for that matter.

Are there any good reasons I'm not seeing that this spell would not be constantly used by powerful casters with political ambitions? Bear in mind that they do not have to spend much time on it, only their spell slots: another willing figure (read: expendable apprentice) can be designated as the messenger for the spell.

[furby076]

For the same reason countries avoid launching nuclear strikes against each other. MAD, while scary, has proven to work.

Though in d&d, if people start abusing something, someone will create a defense mechanism.

If your warlock keeps doing it, someone can eventually devise a defensive spell. Or heck, someone will do it against the warlock and party

[LeonBH]

A spell that can counter Dream is Leomund's Tiny Hut and Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion. A Contingency to cast Dispel Magic on themselves also help to remove Dream whenever it's cast on them.

Targets of the spell can cast (or can hire someone to cast) a Scrying spell to trace the attacker, guided first by various castings of Augury, Divination, and Commune to gain more information about them.

Even without making new rules, it's not an untraceable, unavoidable spell. :)

[RickAllison]

A spell that can counter Dream is Leomund's Tiny Hut and Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion. A Contingency to cast Dispel Magic on themselves also help to remove Dream whenever it's cast on them.

Targets of the spell can cast (or can hire someone to cast) a Scrying spell to trace the attacker, guided first by various castings of Augury, Divination, and Commune to gain more information about them.

Even without making new rules, it's not an untraceable, unavoidable spell. :)

The Hut and Mansion should work fine, but I don't think the Contingency+Dispel Magic will actually help with the rest-negating aspect of it as that seems to be an effect of the failed save (which Contingency would take place after per the timing rules) along with the persistent nightmare rather than as part of the persistent nightmare. So by the time Contingency works, the damage has already been inflicted in terms of the rest being spoiled. Of course anyone who can cast Contingency probably can cast the Hut...

As for Scrying, that is... difficult to pull off. Since you can send a messenger with Dream and you can twist them into any number of shapes, I'm not sure that you can target them directly from the Dream as you don't have an image, a name, or even a vague indication of the person. The information you have is more likely to point to someone in Baator than the correct target. Augury won't help at all since the only sense of whether the Scrying is successful hinges on a die roll. Divination might work, though it may be difficult since you have to have a specific event rather than "What is the name of the person who next uses Dream on me?" and simply going by a timeframe may not work if the Warlock tends to use it multiple times in said timeframe (as they likely do), and that doesn't even consider the fact that Divination answers are rarely direct (and probably shouldn't be). Commune can be used to narrow down your search through twenty-questions, which may work with Divination well enough and is your best shot. In any case, it is unlikely that the vague answers of Divination can be narrowed down with Commune in time to Scry and respond before death occurs (especially given that Scry-and-die is no longer a thing and that for the first night if not more, the target will be thinking of more mundane nightmares).

But of course, Tiny Hut can foil it because Tiny Hut seems to foil anything.

[rollingForInit]

A Mindblank ought to work as well. Sensing and manipulating dreams should fit somewhere in "immune to psychic damage, any effect that would sense its emotions or read its thoughts, divination spells, and the charmed condition. The spell even foils wish spelsl and spells or effects of similar power used to affect the target's mind of to gain information about the target".

You're certainly reaching into the targets mind in some way in order to enter the dreams. Since you can change the dreams, you must be able to see them. Considering that Mindblank is an 8th level spell, it should protect against this.


Aside from that, creating a 5th level spell that counteracts Dream specifically doesn't feel very strange. There could be any number of magical objects that protect the wearer from dream manipulation specifically. And any magical potion that gives the user a dreamless sleep should work. You could also have spells and items that protect the creature from being targetted by Illusion spells. Any people that organisations like the Red Wizards might want to assassinate using this would have access to a variety of these countermeasures. Most monarchs in a setting like the Forgotten Realms probably bave those kinds of protections.

[hymer]

Let's not forget that there is a saving throw on the nightmare version. And that you have to catch the target sleeping. After two nights of rough dreams, somebody is likely to spend eight hours uselessly waiting for the target to go to sleep. Especially if they didn't keep up the barrage. People who wake up not feeling rested may try to go to sleep again pretty soon.


I don't think the Contingency+Dispel Magic will actually help with the rest-negating aspect of it as that seems to be an effect of the failed save (which Contingency would take place after per the timing rules) along with the persistent nightmare rather than as part of the persistent nightmare. So by the time Contingency works, the damage has already been inflicted in terms of the rest being spoiled. Of course anyone who can cast Contingency probably can cast the Hut...

However you interpret the contingency effect, dispel magic cast at the right time ought to work, though the interaction is far from clear. The nightmares last for the duration of the target's sleep (which is interesting - you could presumably catch someone a minute before they wake up, and this spell would ruin their whole previous 7h59m and deal 3d6 to boot). A problem would be in knowing when nightmares have begun, and when they aren't regular nightmares.

[Strill]

For the same reason countries avoid launching nuclear strikes against each other. MAD, while scary, has proven to work.

Though in d&d, if people start abusing something, someone will create a defense mechanism.

If your warlock keeps doing it, someone can eventually devise a defensive spell. Or heck, someone will do it against the warlock and party

MAD requires that you have rational parties. All it takes is one irrational party (aka a rogue wizard) to screw things up. We know that powerful Wizards tend to become isolated and eccentric, running away to their far-off towers, making them all the more prone to going rogue.

[LeonBH]

The Hut and Mansion should work fine, but I don't think the Contingency+Dispel Magic will actually help with the rest-negating aspect of it as that seems to be an effect of the failed save (which Contingency would take place after per the timing rules) along with the persistent nightmare rather than as part of the persistent nightmare. So by the time Contingency works, the damage has already been inflicted in terms of the rest being spoiled. Of course anyone who can cast Contingency probably can cast the Hut...

I think Dispel should work because the duration of Dream is 8 hours rather than Instantaneous, which implies there must be a window of time for the Contingency to kick in.

The spell text says: You can make the messenger appear monstrous and terrifying to the target. If you do, the messenger can deliver a message of no more than ten words and then the target must make a Wisdom saving throw.

In this moment that the Dream spell is delivering a message of no more than 10 words, Contingency can kick in and dispel the effect, thus preventing the saving throw. Though whether or not Contingency is smart enough to recognize when the Dream spell is going into nightmare more is a matter of DM fiat. I think it's reasonable, though.


As for Scrying, that is... difficult to pull off. Since you can send a messenger with Dream and you can twist them into any number of shapes, I'm not sure that you can target them directly from the Dream as you don't have an image, a name, or even a vague indication of the person. The information you have is more likely to point to someone in Baator than the correct target. Augury won't help at all since the only sense of whether the Scrying is successful hinges on a die roll. Divination might work, though it may be difficult since you have to have a specific event rather than "What is the name of the person who next uses Dream on me?" and simply going by a timeframe may not work if the Warlock tends to use it multiple times in said timeframe (as they likely do), and that doesn't even consider the fact that Divination answers are rarely direct (and probably shouldn't be). Commune can be used to narrow down your search through twenty-questions, which may work with Divination well enough and is your best shot. In any case, it is unlikely that the vague answers of Divination can be narrowed down with Commune in time to Scry and respond before death occurs (especially given that Scry-and-die is no longer a thing and that for the first night if not more, the target will be thinking of more mundane nightmares).

You should be able to get at least secondhand information of the target casting Dream on you by first using Commune, Divination, and Augury before using Scrying. As long as you have secondhand information, you can still make the Scry attempt. The target just gets a +5 to their Wisdom saving throw.

I'm thinking along the (unoptimized) lines of Divination first, which says: You ask a single question concerning a specific goal, event, or activity to occur within 7 days. And so the question can be: "What is the name of the entity I will Scry on, given that this entity has used Dream on me on my most recent long rest?"

The vague response you get can then be supplemented with Commune, which says: You contact your deity or a divine proxy and ask up to three questions that can be answered with a yes or no. And so you can clarify things about this person enough to satisfy the Scrying spell. Did this entity originate from X? Does this entity work for X? Is this entity currently in X?

Once you have enough secondhand information on the target, you can use Augury, which says: you receive an omen from an otherworldly entity about the results of a specific course of action that you plan to take within the next 30 minutes. So you could say: "I will use Scying on X" just to triple check everything. After all, if they're using Dream against you, they could have Nondetection up to prevent being traced, or they could be doing it from inside a Tiny Hut or a Private Sanctum.

Once you feel like your attempt will succeed, you can use Scrying. Otherwise, you might have to manually hunt them down.

But of course, just sleeping inside a Tiny Hut will prevent the problem in the first place. If you need more time to find the perpetrator, sleeping inside a Tiny Hut will buy you that time.

[Maxilian]

It would depend on how common spell casters are on your world, and how common are high lvl spell caster (yes a spell caster with 5th lvl spell, its a high lvl caster)

[Segev]

Whether tiny hut works is dependent on how the spell's targeting works. Is the victim targeted when the spell is cast, and thus it's already "on" him when the hut goes up? Or is the spell waiting "outside" the target for him to sleep, and then lashes out from the caster to the target at that time?

Also, what happens if somebody shakes the nightmare-sufferer awake, has him take an hour or two (short rest) to recover, and then restarts the long rest? Does the long rest now provide actual rest since it's a different one than the dream-ruined one?

[RickAllison]

Whether tiny hut works is dependent on how the spell's targeting works. Is the victim targeted when the spell is cast, and thus it's already "on" him when the hut goes up? Or is the spell waiting "outside" the target for him to sleep, and then lashes out from the caster to the target at that time?

Also, what happens if somebody shakes the nightmare-sufferer awake, has him take an hour or two (short rest) to recover, and then restarts the long rest? Does the long rest now provide actual rest since it's a different one than the dream-ruined one?

You don't actually need the short rest. The rest-breaking is only for that rest and the spell ends when they wake. So if they end that long rest, they can immediately try another and hope that the person doesn't ruin it five hours in.

As for the Dispel Magic (from a different poster), the rest-ruining seems to me to be an instantaneous effect in a duration spell. It has to be, actually, since otherwise any caster could wake up from their slumber, say "That was unpleasant," and cast Dispel Magic after the nightmare (since the spell just needs to overlap the sleep at some point, the spell can end and have the other effects occur well afterwards). I don't think the rest-ruining is magical in the sense that the fires set by Firebolt and similar aren't magical but simply the natural results of the spell. The person has a terrible nightmare that causes deep anxiety and prevents real rest from occurring just as a projectile of fire, well, sets things on fire, or a spell like Wall of Fire deals damage that doesn't end when the spell does.

[GPS]

Then there's the easiest way to block Dream, elf NPC's. They're pretty common already, why not put them to strategic use?

[Tanarii]

You don't actually need the short rest. The rest-breaking is only for that rest and the spell ends when they wake. So if they end that long rest, they can immediately try another and hope that the person doesn't ruin it five hours in.
How does that work with the one LR / 24 hrs limitation?

[hymer]

As for the Dispel Magic (from a different poster), the rest-ruining seems to me to be an instantaneous effect in a duration spell. It has to be, actually, since otherwise any caster could wake up from their slumber, say "That was unpleasant," and cast Dispel Magic after the nightmare (since the spell just needs to overlap the sleep at some point, the spell can end and have the other effects occur well afterwards).

What gives you the impression that you wake from the nightmares so you can cast Dispel Magic?
And while we're at it, I want to nitpick: not all casters can cast Dispel Magic, and not all those who can have it prepared, and since they're likely taking a long rest, they may not have the slot to cast it; or they can cast it but may fail. It seems to me a little like arguing that Counterspell makes lots of spells useless, and so the spells must all be immune to Counterspell, or anyone with Counterspell would just Counterspell.


How does that work with the one LR / 24 hrs limitation?

The wording is that you can only 'benefit' from one long rest per day.

[RickAllison]

The wording is that you can only 'benefit' from one long rest per day.

Yup. Someone who wants to reliably block someone from resting needs to cast it potentially five or more times a day (since you only need six hours of sleep) to circumvent simply going back to sleep in a different rest.

[Tanarii]

The wording is that you can only 'benefit' from one long rest per day.Oh lord that's the most technical RAW reading to nerf a spell I've seen in a while.

Although certainly, being technically correct is the best kind of correct. :smallamused:

[hymer]

Oh lord that's the most technical RAW reading to nerf a spell I've seen in a while.

Although certainly, being technically correct is the best kind of correct. :smallamused:

I got some very nice hysterics last time I pointed it out on this board. It made me very happy. :smallbiggrin:

[lperkins2]

There is also no requirement that you sleep as part of a long rest. A long rest is restricted to no more than 2 hours of standing watch, less than 1 hour of walking or strenuous activity, and the balance must be filled by 'sleep or light activity'. No where is the amount of sleep needed specified, and the only mention of a mechanical effect for too little sleep is in the section on examples of saving throws, where it says a DM might require a CON save to remain awake for extended periods of time. Elves and warforged only need 4 hours of sleep-equivalent, (meditation, low power mode) to get the same benefit as other races get with 8 hours of sleep, but again, nothing mechanical is specified for how much sleep is needed, and nobody gets 8 hours of sleep while adventuring (6 of sleep, 2 of standing watch for a 4-man party).

This means the target of repeated Dream will take their long rest by doing light activity. When they sleep, the only mechanical benefit is avoiding the CON saves to stay awake, which means they will have trouble staying awake the rest of the day if you keep interrupting it. On the other hand, eventually they will wake up from the nightmare and go right back to sleep, requiring burning many more spells slots to keep them from resting.

[Segev]

The wording is that you can only 'benefit' from one long rest per day.Oh lord that's the most technical RAW reading to nerf a spell I've seen in a while.

Although certainly, being technically correct is the best kind of correct. :smallamused:I got some very nice hysterics last time I pointed it out on this board. It made me very happy. :smallbiggrin:

It's not just a technicality. That wording is purposeful, not an accidental loophole. It's meant to stop you from doing 15 minute adventuring periods every 8 hours or so; if you're going to do that, you have to do it every 24 hours.

It is not meant to make it so that you can't get a long rest's benefits if you're woken in the middle of the night, but choose to sleep in the next morning to make up for it.

[lperkins2]

It's not just a technicality. That wording is purposeful, not an accidental loophole. It's meant to stop you from doing 15 minute adventuring periods every 8 hours or so; if you're going to do that, you have to do it every 24 hours.

It is not meant to make it so that you can't get a long rest's benefits if you're woken in the middle of the night, but choose to sleep in the next morning to make up for it.

The SRD entry for long rest specifically says if the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity, 'the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.' This seems to imply that when the party fails to rest due to interruption, they may immediately try again, rather than having to wait a day. Dream doesn't specifically say it counts as strenuous activity, but it has the same mechanical effect as strenuous activity (no benefit from the rest), and doesn't say they may not restart the rest.

[Doug Lampert]

The SRD entry for long rest specifically says if the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity, 'the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.' This seems to imply that when the party fails to rest due to interruption, they may immediately try again, rather than having to wait a day. Dream doesn't specifically say it counts as strenuous activity, but it has the same mechanical effect as strenuous activity (no benefit from the rest), and doesn't say they may not restart the rest.

Agreed, and additionally: There is no Long Rest or Short Rest action. You don't settle down to take a ____ Rest, you rest for some length of time and then get the benefits of the rest you have taken.

Thus an interrupted "Long Rest" is a contradiction in terms, if it was interrupted prior to the required time, then it was never a long rest to start with.

If your character is still tired because he woke up with nightmares, then he takes some time to nap, because that's what you do in that situation unless there's something that absolutely requires your attention.

[Tanarii]

RAW or not, anyone who has the time available to rest another 8 hours after they've had their rest broken once probably isn't powerful enough to justify a Dream spell.
:smalltongue:

[lperkins2]

RAW or not, anyone who has the time available to rest another 8 hours after they've had their rest broken once probably isn't powerful enough to justify a Dream spell.
:smalltongue:

Aye, we're certainly not arguing the spell is useless. If you want the king to be in a bad mood, keeping him awake for a couple days is likely to achieve that, especially since a warlock can take a short rest, have their spell slot back, and interrupt the king's second attempt at a long rest in a row. Even if he has a good enough staff to let him try to rest for 16 hours, he does need to spend some time managing his kingdom, and the warlock can keep this up forever (except for tiny hut, mind blank, et cetera).

[SharkForce]

just because you've gotten a long rest, that doesn't mean you got proper sleep. i'd start stacking on the exhaustion levels, because overall even if you are getting a "long rest" you still need sleep at some point.

also, just to point out, three is enough for a full day potentially. nothing says you wake up early, just that you take damage when you wake up (which will also slowly kill you if you don't do something about it). if you're really particular in how you use it, potentially less (if you deliberately wait a few hours between casting the spell, you still make sure they don't gain any benefits, which should include quality sleep time, from that rest).

also, the person casting the dream spell does not actually need to be the messenger. so the caster can get their own sleep no problem, as long as they have an assistant who's willing to help.

[RickAllison]

just because you've gotten a long rest, that doesn't mean you got proper sleep. i'd start stacking on the exhaustion levels, because overall even if you are getting a "long rest" you still need sleep at some point.

also, just to point out, three is enough for a full day potentially. nothing says you wake up early, just that you take damage when you wake up (which will also slowly kill you if you don't do something about it). if you're really particular in how you use it, potentially less (if you deliberately wait a few hours between casting the spell, you still make sure they don't gain any benefits, which should include quality sleep time, from that rest).

also, the person casting the dream spell does not actually need to be the messenger. so the caster can get their own sleep no problem, as long as they have an assistant who's willing to help.

Even better, several assistants. Considering that 2 sp is enough to hire an unskilled hireling for a day, I'm sure you could find a few peasants who wouldn't mind getting paid 2 gp to deliver a message, even if it is a creepy guy in a weird get-up that disguises his face who is paying. Heck, this probably is little enough to pay in silver.

Switch your henchmen around so your target can't even track you down by the messenger.

[lperkins2]

just because you've gotten a long rest, that doesn't mean you got proper sleep. i'd start stacking on the exhaustion levels, because overall even if you are getting a "long rest" you still need sleep at some point.


Aye, while the two (long rest and sleep) are generally lumped together, missing out on either one can be problematic for characters. Don't make the exhaustion stack quickly (record is currently 11 days without sleep), and don't let it be fatal (I'd cap it at 4 levels of exhaustion, but add in hallucinations, paranoia, and mood swings). Nightmares or no, you eventually get tired enough you will sleep. Of course, people who can't sleep for extended periods of time often end up suicidal.

[Simian]

RAW or not, anyone who has the time available to rest another 8 hours after they've had their rest broken once probably isn't powerful enough to justify a Dream spell.
:smalltongue:

Yes, because it's well documented that people who are powerful have no free time.

As 1 person pointed out, sleep is not required to get a long rest, you can take a long rest by sitting on the couch binge watching Netflix. Sleep, however, is required for avoiding levels of exhaustion. It's realistic to expect that an individual suffering 1 or 2 levels of exhaustion may not try to take another 6 hour sleep in the day if they have other duties to attend to. However, at some point they need to call in sick and get rested. I doubt they would just let themselves die of exhaustion. Kind of pointing towards what 1 person said about having to cast it 5 times a day if you truly want to ensure they don't sleep.

If this is what you had in mind by harassment it would certainly hinder day to day activities. Though also keep in mind that people who suddenly start having consistent specific nightmares might try to seek out the cause or find someone to help defend them against such intrusions. Individuals in leadership positions are likely to have access to the necessary resources to counter such offenses. Not every possible spell or magical effect is documented as a spell in D&D either. You might perform a rite involving magical dream catchers to counter such dark magic for example.

Any thing that would become a prevalent and constant threat is going to naturally evolve a counter to it. People aren't just going to throw up their hands and go, "oh well we can't do anything about this so let's just succumb".

[lperkins2]

Sleep, however, is required for avoiding levels of exhaustion.

Not that I can find by RAW. Aside from magical effects, the only place sleep is mentioned is that it requires a CON save to stay awake for extended periods, although I can't even find where that is (it was in a section given examples of saving throws, IIRC). Of course, exhaustion can be applied anytime the characters are doing something exhausting for an extended period, and going without sleep arguably qualifies.

[hymer]

It's not just a technicality. That wording is purposeful, not an accidental loophole.

I agree. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying it when people think I'm being unreasonably pedantic about it.

[Tanarii]

As 1 person pointed out, sleep is not required to get a long rest,Yes, but there is a point at which the DM needs to remember that the rules are an abstraction, and intervene. Such as ...


Sleep, however, is required for avoiding levels of exhaustion. It's realistic to expect that an individual suffering 1 or 2 levels of exhaustion may not try to take another 6 hour sleep in the day if they have other duties to attend to.That's a reasonable DM ruling. There's no RAW that says lack of sleep is required for avoiding levels of exhaustion though.


Any thing that would become a prevalent and constant threat is going to naturally evolve a counter to it. People aren't just going to throw up their hands and go, "oh well we can't do anything about this so let's just succumb".If level 5 spells are 'prevalent' in the DM's world, then he's got a whole host of other issues to deal with. IMC a level 9-10 character is roughly 1 in a million. And Fighters/Rogues are far more common than casting classes at that level.

OTOH while not having free time does generally go hand in hand with being powerful (although not necessarily wealthy), so would the resources to do something about a problem like 'chronic nightmares'. Sounds like something a bunch of murderhobos might be able to investigate ...

Honestly I feel like this aspect of Dream really is there to provide a RAW plot tool for DMs to have rulers (or other powerful people) give out quests to PCs, as opposed to a PC tool. :smallbiggrin:

Edit:

It's not just a technicality. That wording is purposeful, not an accidental loophole. It's meant to stop you from doing 15 minute adventuring periods every 8 hours or so; if you're going to do that, you have to do it every 24 hours.

It is not meant to make it so that you can't get a long rest's benefits if you're woken in the middle of the night, but choose to sleep in the next morning to make up for it.


I agree. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying it when people think I'm being unreasonably pedantic about it.
Watching people flip out about overly technical pedantic applications of RAW, especially when you try to claim they were intentional loopholes, is always entertaining. Just so long as you're not doing it JUST for the entertainment value (ie trolling). :smallamused:

[Segev]

The SRD entry for long rest specifically says if the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity, 'the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.' This seems to imply that when the party fails to rest due to interruption, they may immediately try again, rather than having to wait a day. Dream doesn't specifically say it counts as strenuous activity, but it has the same mechanical effect as strenuous activity (no benefit from the rest), and doesn't say they may not restart the rest.Precisely.

It's an intended rule, not a loophole due to wording. The whole idea is that you CAN get that long rest you need; you just have to "start over" if it's interrupted. You're not screwed for a whole day unless you're interrupted at least once every 3 or 4 hours (and even then, you're getting short rests in).


I agree. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying it when people think I'm being unreasonably pedantic about it.


Watching people flip out about overly technical pedantic applications of RAW, especially when you try to claim they were intentional loopholes, is always entertaining. Just so long as you're not doing it JUST for the entertainment value (ie trolling). :smallamused:

In this case, it's not a pedantic reading. It's exactly what the designers meant to do. (Well, okay, I don't know that for sure, but everything points to it being the case, and nothing hints that the designers might not have foreseen this exact interpretation and desired it.)

[hymer]

In this case, it's not a pedantic reading. It's exactly what the designers meant to do.

Are you implying that one cannot be both pedantic and entirely correct? Them's fightin' words!

[BW022]

...

Are there any good reasons I'm not seeing that this spell would not be constantly used by powerful casters with political ambitions? Bear in mind that they do not have to spend much time on it, only their spell slots: another willing figure (read: expendable apprentice) can be designated as the messenger for the spell.

Lots of reasons.

1. High level casters are presumably fairly rare in any campaign.

2. Even high level casters won't necessarily have that spell. There are lot of other spells to select.

3. The spell is extremely easy to prevent -- even through mundane means. You merely sleep at random times. Given the warlock can only can cast this once per long rest, there is only a 1/3 chance that they can catch you within the 8 hours in a day.

4. The spell is fairly easy to ensure -- even through mundane means. Even if someone could cast the spell three times a day, you merely sleep and have someone immediately wake you. You suffer (if you fail your save) the 3d6 damage. A short rest (or heal spell) gets the damage back for anyone of any appreciative level and then then go back to sleep again. They'll run out of dream spells before you run out of cures or short rests.

5. The spell is easy to avoid using low-level spells. Rope trick, mind blank, etc. all work fine. Note that they only need to prevent this a few times and presumably most casters are going to give up at some point. With a mixture of 3, 4, and 5... chances of success are extremely low. At higher levels folks have everything from plane shift to gate to avoid ever being targeted.

6. High level folks have the resources to find you. Since the target must be "know to you" chances are you've met them. Chances are they also know you. Even if they don't, they may be able to know you from seeing you in the dream. There are also divinations, communes, and other spells available. There are also mundane means... investigations. As soon as they find out who is responsible... I'd be more worried about 5th-level spells like teleport suddenly landing folks on top of you while you are in bed dreaming away.

[RickAllison]

3. The spell is extremely easy to prevent -- even through mundane means. You merely sleep at random times. Given the warlock can only can cast this once per long rest, there is only a 1/3 chance that they can catch you within the 8 hours in a day.

The rest have merit, but not this one. The Warlock can just pick this spell, not through an invocation or Mystic Arcanum. They have it potentially at least twice per short rest once they are at the appropriate level. Come to think of it, a high-level Warlock can do this to an entire party... I may have an NPC to mess with my players...

[Tanarii]

Are you implying that one cannot be both pedantic and entirely correct? Them's fightin' words!I didn't even think it was possible to be pedantic and be wrong. That's the point isn't it? To accuse someone of pedantry because you don't have a good counter-argument? :smallbiggrin:

[lperkins2]

It occurs to me that exhaustion for lack of sleep doesn't work properly. Finishing a long rest reduces exhaustion level by 1, if not sleeping gives 1 level of exhaustion, it'll just stay hovering between 0 and 1 level of exhaustion. The requirement for reducing exhaustion just requires food and drink, not sleep. Seems likely to be an oversight.