Could these situations be considered as "short rests"?

[Citan]

Hi all!

Now that we (my and players) are finally starting to get a rythm for playing more or less regular sessions, many 5e specific questions come into my mind now that I am "on the other side". ^^

Short rests in particular are a bit blurry: contrarily to long rests which are described in more detail, what amount to DM adjudication holds in just this small text:


PHB, p186: A short rest is a period of downtime, at least 1 hour long, during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.

So...
I've been wondering if I would be pampering my players or not if I were to consider the following as "being short rests"...

---
1. Sitting in a tavern, talking and eating.

2. Laying on top of a Tenser's Floating Disk which follows a walking Wizard (technically it's just durable enough if character hops on it as soon as it's cast).

3. Being carried on shoulders/in arms of another character who is walking (as long as the carrying character has the physical ability to do so for an extended period of time obviously).

4. Travelling with a mean of transportation (Find Steed, chariot, etc).

5. Sitting at a table, writing things down.

6. (corner case admitedly for the sake of theory): travelling under the effect of Wind Walk (technically you are not making any effort, are you?).
---

It's not that important yet because the party is currently lvl 2 characters (probably lvl 3 on next session).

But I already have a Cleric (dip) / Monk (main), a Rogue (future AT) and a Ranger, and possibly a long-rest caster joining later, so I have to balance the short rest to avoid making Monk too strong resource-wise, especially once everyone has a few more levels under the belt.

And technically, considering how PHB is written, I see no good technical reason to deny the benefit of short rest in above described situations, because such a character is not walking/doing anything energy-consuming.

In fact, I see many many situations where the character could still do meaningful things roleplay-wise, while still benefiting from a short rest.

For example, would you consider that doing Charisma checks because you are trying to persuade a ship captain to bring you for free, while both are sitting and drinking, breaking a short rest?
Or that intensely studying an old scripture to try and find the solution to a puzzle/mystery would break it?
The only argument I find for such a ruling would be that the intellectual effort is too intense (finding the right words to persuade / straining your eyes and mind to look for hints and logic) but this is very far-fetched to me.

This is also probably why I have some trouble understanding the reasons behind the heated arguments of "your DM is not giving enough short rests" on some topic (*poke Warlocks threads* XD). Unless we are talking about a party which has to literally run through a mission because of a very tight timeframe, or that has to stay 100% everyone on guard because travelling into a big enemy hideout, I don't see how you couldn't manage to get a short rest for the people that really need it with a bit of preparation and teamwork.

What do you think?
Thank all for your replies. :smallwink:

[Ninja_Prawn]

So...
I've been wondering if I would be pampering my players or not if I were to consider the following as "being short rests"...
1. Sitting in a tavern, talking and eating.
2. Laying on top of a Tenser's Floating Disk which follows a walking Wizard.
3. Being carried on shoulders/in arms of another character who is walking (as long as the carrying character has the physical ability to do so for an extended period of time obviously).
4. Sitting at a table, writing things down.

For me (and this will definitely vary by DM):
Yes, I see his as the benchmark for a short rest.
No.
No.
Depends what the 'things' are, probably not.
I view travel as being tiring, even if you aren't actually doing the walking. Have you ever sat in a car for 8 hours? You're tired when you get out, right? Plus travelling adventurers will likely be navigating, watching for threats, preparing spells and doing other non-trivial activities while reclining on their Floating Disk.


In fact, I see many many situations where the character could still do meaningful things roleplay-wise, while still benefiting from a short rest.
For example, would you consider that doing Charisma checks because you are trying to persuade a ship captain to bring you for free, while both are sitting and drinking, breaking a short rest?
Or that intensely studying an old scripture to try and find the solution to a puzzle/mystery would break it?
The only argument I find for such a ruling would be that the intellectual effort is too intense (finding the right words to persuade / straining your eyes and mind to look for hints and logic) but this is very far-fetched to me.

I run games that are heavy on the non-combat situations, so I tend to view things like "persuade a ship captain" and "find the solution to a puzzle/mystery" as being stressful, adventuring activity, because they make up most of the challenges I put in front of my players. They often use spells to help solve these challenges, which says to me that they aren't resting.

Clearly these situations could be considered rests if you were running a combat-heavy dungeon crawl.

[Sirdar]

I use the following guidelines:

Long Rest: Any rest equivalent to 8 hours sleep followed by breakfast. (Races that only need 4 hours trance or similar still need the extra time to clean their gear or whatever)

Short Rest: Any rest equivalent to a 1 hour long lunch/dinner.

Can a quick meal of 30 minutes be a Short Rest? Sure, if it is taken in a Tavern. But in a dungeon you may need a full hour to take care of your wounds while grabbing a snickers in order to get a Short Rest.

[Ronnocius]

But if you are talking and eating in a tavern you aren't really tending your wounds, so how would you regain hit points? Are you healing yourself while you're talking to other people in a tavern? That would be kind of strange...
Honestly it is up to you whether these things count as rests, so use your judgment. One hour isn't that long though so there is no reason that they can't just take a normal one (unless there are some sort of circumstances imposing time limit or they are in hostile environments.)

[Ninja_Prawn]

But if you are talking and eating in a tavern you aren't really tending your wounds, so how would you regain hit points?

Because you can only take ibuprofen with meals. :smalltongue:

I'd say rolling hit dice is just about taking time to catch your breath and recover some energy. It could involve actual first aid, but don't underestimate the power of a good meal to restore one's fighting spirit!

[GPS]

For me (and this will definitely vary by DM):
Yes, I see his as the benchmark for a short rest.
No.
No.
Depends what the 'things' are, probably not.
I view travel as being tiring, even if you aren't actually doing the walking. Have you ever sat in a car for 8 hours? You're tired when you get out, right? Plus travelling adventurers will likely be navigating, watching for threats, preparing spells and doing other non-trivial activities while reclining on their Floating Disk.



I run games that are heavy on the non-combat situations, so I tend to view things like "persuade a ship captain" and "find the solution to a puzzle/mystery" as being stressful, adventuring activity, because they make up most of the challenges I put in front of my players. They often use spells to help solve these challenges, which says to me that they aren't resting.

Clearly these situations could be considered rests if you were running a combat-heavy dungeon crawl.

Hold on now, writing things down and sitting on tensers are both light to no activity. Studying old scripture intensely I also see kind of like magic item identification. Charismaing captain, maybe, but likely no.

[BW022]

Any of these will depend upon the situation.

1. Tavern. Depends on where you are resting at the tavern, or actively engaging in activities -- such as on the look you for thugs, trying to overhear someone at another table, etc.

2. Tenser's passenger. Depends on where you are. In a dungeon or dangerous area, with companions talking about werewolves tracking you... no. You'd be on edge, alert, worried about the situation, moving around, etc.

3. Carried on someone's shoulders. No. That isn't comfortable and involves a lot of up and down motion.

4. Travel. Depends. Horses, usually not. Wagons, not if you are driving them or the terrain is anything but perfect. Carriage or wagon in flat safe terrain, safe boat passage, etc. sure. This said... with horses and wagons, folks normally stop to rest the animals or cook a meal. There is normally breakfast, lunch, and dinner breaks. Horses often need water breaks also.

5. Writing. Depends. Is this just casually writing in your journal or reading a romance novel... or is it heavy work in a library, copying a spell, or working to decrypt some ancient language?

Most of the time... short rests happen either naturally (during breakfast, lunch, and dinner breaks) or when players specifically say they are resting (i.e. stop, make camp, are safe from any immediate danger, have guards up, etc.) If you need to make a ruling as to whether a rest is possible in a given situation... I like to think if someone could take a nap of they wanted to. You may or may not be able to nap in a tavern, you likely can't nap on a disk being pulled through a werewolf invested forest, you can't nap on someone's shoulders, you can nap while reading a romance novel but probably not if seriously investing in your physics homework, etc.

[Ruslan]

I've been wondering if I would be pampering my players or not if I were to consider the following as "being short rests"...

---
1. Sitting in a tavern, talking and eating.

2. Laying on top of a Tenser's Floating Disk which follows a walking Wizard (technically it's just durable enough if character hops on it as soon as it's cast).

3. Being carried on shoulders/in arms of another character who is walking (as long as the carrying character has the physical ability to do so for an extended period of time obviously).

4. Travelling with a mean of transportation (Find Steed, chariot, etc).

5. Sitting at a table, writing things down.

6. (corner case admitedly for the sake of theory): travelling under the effect of Wind Walk (technically you are not making any effort, are you?).
---

1. Definitely yes.
2. I would say yes.
3-4. From my meager experience with riding, it is definitely not restful. I would definitely not allow a character to take a rest while riding a mount (or other character). For a chariot, I'd say yes. It's possible to even sleep in a chariot, as far as I know.
5. I'd say no. You are concentrating on writing stuff. Doing work. It's not restful.
6. I'd say no. By my interpretation of Wind Walk, you are exerting about as much effort as a normal walk.

[Squiddish]

Hi all!

Now that we (my and players) are finally starting to get a rythm for playing more or less regular sessions, many 5e specific questions come into my mind now that I am "on the other side". ^^

Short rests in particular are a bit blurry: contrarily to long rests which are described in more detail, what amount to DM adjudication holds in just this small text:



So...
I've been wondering if I would be pampering my players or not if I were to consider the following as "being short rests"...

---
1. Sitting in a tavern, talking and eating.

2. Laying on top of a Tenser's Floating Disk which follows a walking Wizard (technically it's just durable enough if character hops on it as soon as it's cast).

3. Being carried on shoulders/in arms of another character who is walking (as long as the carrying character has the physical ability to do so for an extended period of time obviously).

4. Travelling with a mean of transportation (Find Steed, chariot, etc).

5. Sitting at a table, writing things down.

6. (corner case admitedly for the sake of theory): travelling under the effect of Wind Walk (technically you are not making any effort, are you?).
---


What do you think?
Thank all for your replies. :smallwink:
1. Certainly
2. Probably
3. For that one I'd say yes, if and only if you were unconscious (yes, you can short rest while unconscious, yes that is an intended feature to help PCs get up faster)
4. Sure, you can short rest on a train, can't you? There are two exceptions, however. You can't be actively controlling the mount, i.e., find steed is okay because you can command it with your mind, but if it's a normal horse and you're maneuvering it with animal handling checks that's strenuous enough. And you can't be actively on the horse, because that's very uncomfortable.
5. Yes, although if everyone in the party is doing this for their short rests that's a problem.
6. I'd say no, because while you aren't exerting yourself, you are moving a lot, paying attention to your surroundings, etc.

[Mellack]

Hi all!


---
1. Sitting in a tavern, talking and eating.

2. Laying on top of a Tenser's Floating Disk which follows a walking Wizard (technically it's just durable enough if character hops on it as soon as it's cast).

3. Being carried on shoulders/in arms of another character who is walking (as long as the carrying character has the physical ability to do so for an extended period of time obviously).

4. Travelling with a mean of transportation (Find Steed, chariot, etc).

5. Sitting at a table, writing things down.

6. (corner case admitedly for the sake of theory): travelling under the effect of Wind Walk (technically you are not making any effort, are you?).
---


Obiviously opinions will vary, but here is my 2 cents.
1. Yes, this is almost the definition of taking a rest.
2. Yes, assuming nothing happens to disturb you.
3. No, much too uncomfortable.
4. Maybe, depending on the transportation. Carriage, ship, train are all yes. Wagon, perhaps if the ride is smooth and you are not driving. Horseback would be no, they are pretty bouncy and you have to stay busy controlling it. I might be willing to be talked into it depending on conditions and background as I know some people could nap in the saddle, ie the Mongols.
5. Yes
6. No, I understand it to be the same effort as walking.

[Sirdar]

Because you can only take ibuprofen with meals. :smalltongue:

I'd say rolling hit dice is just about taking time to catch your breath and recover some energy. It could involve actual first aid, but don't underestimate the power of a good meal to restore one's fighting spirit!

It could involve actual first aid.

This is how I see it as well. A 1 hour Short Rest in the wilderness can be different for different party members.

The unhurt Rogue prepares a soup for the party to eat and relaxes in the sun after the meal.
The badly hurt Fighter just lays on the ground and moans in pain while the Cleric attends his wounds and forces him to eat some soup.
The Warlock quickly eats his own meal (and then half of the Clerics meal) before he takes a look at his own bruised ribs.

If no one is badly hurt and the party is sitting in a tavern - a 30 minute Short Rest would do just fine. If all of them was injured as much as the Fighter, they may need 1.5 hour to get the full benefits of a Short Rest.

[Kane0]

In my group:
1. Yep
2. Yep, as long as conditions are favorable
3. Nope (discomfort)
4. Nope (discomfort and must pay attention)
5. Yep, so long as its leisurely
6. Nope (paying attention)

Basically if you can bandage a wound, grab something to eat and/or have a quick nap meditation session without being interrupted or having to focus on something else you can count it as a short rest. Being on the move generally means you can't.

[JellyPooga]

There's definitely a question as to what different characters find "restful". For instance;

- The Scholarly Wizard might find the hubbub of the rowdy tavern crowd far too distracting to really concentrate. "Meet me in an hour, this racket is giving me a headache". Meanwhile, the Barbarian is downing pints of ale and even gets into an insignificant scrap, finding the whole experience entirely relaxing compared to life in the wilds. "Thrag like puny man-city. Verrr...vry...very relaxing. Ale make Thrag strong again!"

- The laid-back Rogue puts his feet up in the back of the wagon and swiftly dozes off for a quick nap; the gentle roll of the wheels virtually a lullaby to this experienced traveller. The plate-armoured Cleric, janking and jolting around at every bump in the road, on the other hand, has a grumpy look on his face and grizzles at the hard seats and the indignity of being forced to travel in this overgrown mule cart. "What I'd give for the tranquility of the monsatary to practice my meditation".

- The Ranger, hailing from the nomadic horse tribes of the northern steppes, can virtually sleep in the saddle; even prefers it there to being on foot. He finds travelling by horseback quite refreshing. The city-born Bard who's only ever seen a horse from a distance until now, finds himself falling off the horse more than he finds himself relaxing in the saddle.

[hymer]

1. Sitting in a tavern, talking and eating.

2. Laying on top of a Tenser's Floating Disk which follows a walking Wizard (technically it's just durable enough if character hops on it as soon as it's cast).

3. Being carried on shoulders/in arms of another character who is walking (as long as the carrying character has the physical ability to do so for an extended period of time obviously).

4. Travelling with a mean of transportation (Find Steed, chariot, etc).

5. Sitting at a table, writing things down.

6. (corner case admitedly for the sake of theory): travelling under the effect of Wind Walk (technically you are not making any effort, are you?).

1: Perfect example of a short rest, as long as the crowd isn't too loud and rowdy.
2: Probably not. TFD is hard and uncomfortably shaped, and most of the time such transport would be in uncomfortable areas or under unpleasant conditions. And the last ten minutes has you worried it will disappear and drop you.
3: Sounds very uncomfortable. No.
4: Riding is pretty strenuous, and riding a chariot is even worse. A fine wagon going over a good road at a low speed, ok. Less than that is not comfortable.
5: No. Writing is mentally strenuous, and you get stiff in the arms, hands, shoulders and back from it. It is not restful. I wouldn't mind someone writing for a few minutes in their diary as part of a short rest, but an hour spent writing is not restful.
6: No. Even if you rule that you're not making any physical effort (which is debatable), you must still navigate and will your movement to happen.


There's definitely a question as to what different characters find "restful". For instance;

- The Scholarly Wizard might find the hubbub of the rowdy tavern crowd far too distracting to really concentrate. "Meet me in an hour, this racket is giving me a headache". Meanwhile, the Barbarian is downing pints of ale and even gets into an insignificant scrap, finding the whole experience entirely relaxing compared to life in the wilds. "Thrag like puny man-city. Verrr...vry...very relaxing. Ale make Thrag strong again!"

- The laid-back Rogue puts his feet up in the back of the wagon and swiftly dozes off for a quick nap; the gentle roll of the wheels virtually a lullaby to this experienced traveller. The plate-armoured Cleric, janking and jolting around at every bump in the road, on the other hand, has a grumpy look on his face and grizzles at the hard seats and the indignity of being forced to travel in this overgrown mule cart. "What I'd give for the tranquility of the monsatary to practice my meditation".

- The Ranger, hailing from the nomadic horse tribes of the northern steppes, can virtually sleep in the saddle; even prefers it there to being on foot. He finds travelling by horseback quite refreshing. The city-born Bard who's only ever seen a horse from a distance until now, finds himself falling off the horse more than he finds himself relaxing in the saddle.

This makes a lot of sense. I'd be wary of letting some take a short rest while not permitting it for others under essentially the same conditions, though.