What alignment would be most suitable for a trained assassin seeking vengeance?

[Neknoh]

And I'm not quite talking Inigo Montoya (although that too would be an interesting discussion as to what his alignment really should be).


For my next character, in case my current one dies, I am looking into a rather cliché direction of a trained assassin who's mentor/military leader/noble master/clan head/parent was murdered and she now seeks revenge. It's old, it's standard, and I like it, mostly because it gives me an excuse to play a properly proper ninja, i.e. she has ranks in preform and disguise, wears bright colours and an instrument for preforming as a traveling bard and generally acts and behaves like a bard, a trader, entertainer, a commoner or whatever she needs to do.


There is no "I am the night!", no "I'm batman!" and no jet-black-constant-ninja-clothing-with-lots-of-leather-and-****tones-of-swords-outfit.


On her hip, she carries the daisho pair of her [insert parental figure here], except the Katana is broken and the DM has agreed to count it as a second wakizashi. So all of the game mechanics are sorted.


But I'm curious, since murder, and especially murder for coin/orders most certainly is not "good", what would be a proper alignment to do this character justice? I'm honestly considering Lawful Evil, mostly because I consider characters who actively murder anything other than monsters, enemy combatants and BBEG's to be some manner of evil if they do it more than once, and assassin feels no different.


So, what are your thoughts on a vengeance seeking, fantasy-historical assassin's alignment? Would be fun to see a discussion and get some more ideas and thoughts on the matter.

[Inevitability]

Lawful Evil. Maybe Lawful Neutral if you downplay the killing of sentient beings for personal gain.

[Telonius]

If she were exclusively going after the ones who killed her parents, I'd probably say Lawful Neutral. If she's taking a job as a regular assassin until she can find the person who did it, Lawful Evil.

[Geddy2112]

Vengeance is generally an action that eschews a formal legal system and is personal, therefore a generally chaotic action. Acting as the vengeful vigilante that goes out and rights wrongs/takes the law and justice into your own hands will plant you firmly into nonlawful.

That being said, if you are only seeking vengeance against a particular person and the character is otherwise non chaotic, then this single instance will not be a major issue. If the character your character is avenging was a military/guild leader and you are getting vengeance not only for yourself, but on behalf of the guild(a counter gang hit kind of thing) then you are back towards lawful. If the killing is required out of an oath/vow/solemn duty to avenge the death of your whomever, then that is a hard L.

Killing for revenge is solidly evil, although as others said if this is the only person your character plans on killing you can probably swing neutral on the G/E axis. Since you wanna play an assassin trope(and I assume killing other people and for money) then that is evil.

The "artistic assassin" geisha/bard/commoner or random trubador who is a professional hit killer in disguise trope is generally LE, as there is a dedication to the artistic nature of killing, and a dicipline in both killing and whatever other art. Normally the two are combined(bard plays lethal sounds on an instrument, a fan dance that is also a fighting style, poisoned tea ceremonies, etc). You can find NE and rarely CE versions, although the CE are rarely part of an organization or have formal training.

So I would say LE, with some wiggle room for LN if you don't assassinate other people, and NE if the motives are more selfish in nature.

[Karl Aegis]

You're Batman without the Batman fortune, so you need to be Batman as an occupation rather than as a hobby. Your goal is vigilante justice. Chaotic Good.

[Telonius]

Vengeance is generally an action that eschews a formal legal system and is personal, therefore a generally chaotic action. Acting as the vengeful vigilante that goes out and rights wrongs/takes the law and justice into your own hands will plant you firmly into nonlawful.

That does depend a bit on the society. In some cases it might be seen as a person's duty to avenge an unjustly- (or even justly-) slain relative. They might even be honor-bound to attempt it.

[Vizzerdrix]

Chaotic/neutral evil.

As an assassin you kill sentients for money. That is not good or neutral by any stretch.

If you are out for vengeance as opposed to justice, that would scew you away from the lawful end. Otherwise It depends on how far you are willing to go. Do you have a code, or rules you follow?

[JustIgnoreMe]

It's a tricky one, because the alignment you actually are is different from the alignment you want to present to the world.

A trained assassin who follows a heirarchy and kills for money, beliefs, duty or loyalty is Lawful Evil. Maybe Neutral Evil at a stretch. Assassination isn't just "not fighting fair": it is murder for money. Anyone, anywhere, any time, terms and conditions apply.

On the other hand, you might present to the world as a Chaotic Good bard. Which requires you to act as a completely opposite alignment.

IIRC 1st or 2nd Ed Ninjas had a class feature dealing with this problem. If your GM is on board with the "actually X but pretending to be Y" issue, you will be OK.

I've played an LE assassin in deep cover, pretending to be an LN rogue. Not easy. The only Evil acts I was regularly committing were preparatory: information-gathering and betraying people I was supposed to be allied to.

[Sian]

Remember, being Lawful doesn't mean that you're necessarily primarily following the legal code, but you could also be following a personal code (such as Eye-for-an-Eye vengeance)

[NOhara24]

Vengeance is generally an action that eschews a formal legal system and is personal, therefore a generally chaotic action. Acting as the vengeful vigilante that goes out and rights wrongs/takes the law and justice into your own hands will plant you firmly into nonlawful.



Being lawful =! law-abiding. Lawful just means that the character in question is relatively even-keeled as far as temperament (this is also reflected in their actions...) and may adhere to some kind of personal code. That's it.


Remember, being Lawful doesn't mean that you're necessarily primarily following the legal code, but you could also be following a personal code (such as Eye-for-an-Eye vengeance)

He put it more succinctly.

[Gildedragon]

A case could be made for most alignments
I could even see this person being CG:
Will back out of contracts they feel are not justified/only kills those who "had it coming" or who have accepted asasination as part of the risks of their job (e.g. Nobles, other assassins, crime bosses, professors in arcane universities (tenure is hard to get when the professors keep liching themselves))
It comes down to how you play the character and their personal philosophy: how do they go about doing things
Iirc the non-evil assassin prc variant has some tips about that sort of stuff, especially vengeance

[Neknoh]

Justignoreme hit the nail on the head, it's just a traveling bard, her yukata is torn, slightly tasteless (but not overtly so) and she'll play the Erhu in any inn or hall that will have her when not playing on the street. She wears unassuning clothes for the rest of her travels, the daisho pair at her side being the only thing that would visually suggest some manner of noble background, probably just a ronin turned bard in the eyes who know.


She'll steel for a living if she gets desperate, she'll either kill or talk to a person who seeks her out by her old name, depending on her perception of their intent.


I have not decided if she still takes contracts, but she likely will, since that is the only way of proper life she knows from when she was a sword of her clan/family/emperor/whatever, but again, aproach at your own risk. And no, there is no "she once got a contract from her [parental figure] that she couldn't complete because the [cliche heartstring victim] made her hesitate and defect" story. She used to be good, after all, she'll be a PC of level 10 or higher.


Btw, the reasoning that "they should expect it because they're nobles" sounds more than a little Evil. A character like that, who'll only take certain contracts but totally not the most evil ones are still taking contracts on people'a lives and should at BEST be Neutral and more than likely Evil in alignment.

[Particle_Man]

Some questions:

Is she taking revenge because that is what the code of her assassin's guild requires?

Hypothetically, if her new clan head/assassin's guild leader/etc. ordered her *not* to take revenge, what would she do?

The answers to these questions might determine if she is LE or not.

[Geddy2112]

That does depend a bit on the society. In some cases it might be seen as a person's duty to avenge an unjustly- (or even justly-) slain relative. They might even be honor-bound to attempt it.
I totally agree-interesting quandary when you have a society where law dictates that you settle things like this with personal vengeance. A law to act in one's own interest-that said, chaotic societies are not unheard of.


Being lawful =! law-abiding
I totally agree, however

Lawful just means that the character in question is relatively even-keeled as far as temperament (this is also reflected in their actions...)and may adhere to some kind of personal code. That's it. This is totally untrue. While less likely, lawful characters don't have to be even keeled or even predictable. Lawful people can live disorganized hedonistic lifestyles, and chaotic people can live ascetic lifestyles. Also, the whole "code" is just wrong-a lot of chaotic people have them, and a lot of lawful people do not. A personal code might be more chaotic than lawful as it comes from individual beliefs rather than that of others or a structure.

Lawful vs chaos is not about how one chooses to act, but more the importance of the group vs the individual. It has to do with where a person's ethos and morals comes from. Lawful ethos and morality comes from order, tradition, society, where a chaotic character's ethos and morality comes from within independent of those things.

[Neknoh]

It is a purely personal revenge, even if she might consider it for the greater good depending on who it was, I haven't decided on what maner of parental figure it is that has been killed, so, if it turns out to be her mother or father, it is only for personal revenge, if it is her general/clan head etc murdered by the evuuuul emperor, or the emperor himself has been for that matter, vengeance will be a mixture between personal, sense of duty to the fallen and possibly a misguided and self-justifying view of how it will all make the world better.