Caffeine in d20

[Edivad]

In the level 0 spells/cantrip topics, someone posted

Never seen any rules for how caffeine works. Please elaborate.
Let's elaborate, shall we? Caffeine could be a good addiction to any setting, considering it's a really interesting substance.
How would you people stat it up? I was considering as some sort of cheap potion with small but significant advantages and disadvantages...and if you want to be mean, then there's addiction to deal with(caffeine is a drug, after all).
I know people have made all kind of rules for drinking booze and alcohol in D&D, but the same has not happened for caffeine...
I'm sure in some settings coffe and tea could be very popular beverages!.
So let's improvise.

For one hour the drinker of a cup of coffee or tea gains a +1 bonus to Listen, Spot, Concentration and Initiative, in addition to a +2 save bonus against all sleep-related effects adn sleep.
However, getting normal sleep or meditating is difficult in this agitated states: it requires making a DC 18 Will save.
If the character drinks another cup before the effects of the last one end, the duration increases appropriately - so if you drink a cup, wait half an hour and then drink another, the duration left is one hour and half.
When the duration ends, you experience some drawbacks: not only you lose the bonuses, but they turn into penalties.
You take a -1 to Listen, Spot, Concentration and Initiative, plus a -2 save penalty against sleep-related effects.
These penalties last for the same time that you spent in the caffeinated state.
If you drink another cup during this time, the penalties are delayed by one hour. However, when you will have to suffer from them, their duration also increases by one hour. This stacks if you drink multiple cups.

Example: You drink two cups, and enjoy the bonuses for 2 hours.
After these 2 hours, you lose the bonuses and will have to suffer penalties for the same time.
However, you decide to drink another two cups, and so you have neither bonuses nor penalties for the next 2 hours.
However, after that you will have penalties for 4 hours.

First Edit: reduced duration to 1 hour, added +1 to Initiative, reworded a bit the last part
Second Edit: Added Concentration effects, and the drawbacks, cleaned everything.
Third Edit: cleaned and simplified, removed the Fort save to halve the duration of penalties.

[TheLogman]

Four Hours? Caffeine only stays in a person's system for 20 minutes, and although the awareness and other effects may last up to 40 minutes, they usually don't last more than half an hour or so.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Four Hours? Caffeine only stays in a person's system for 20 minutes, and although the awareness and other effects may last up to 40 minutes, they usually don't last more than half an hour or so.

Psycho-semantics.

[Edivad]

Umh, I used this as a source(Wikipedia)
"The half-life of caffeine—the time required for the body to eliminate one-half of the total amount of caffeine consumed at a given time—varies widely among individuals according to such factors as age, liver function, pregnancy, some concurrent medications, and the level of enzymes in the liver needed for caffeine metabolism. In healthy adults, caffeine's half-life is approximately 3–4 hours"

Though it also says "Caffeine is completely absorbed by the stomach and small intestine within 45 minutes of ingestion."
Probably 4 hours is really a lot...Might lower it down to just 1 hour? That would still be a lot if what you say is true, but we can always say it's..umh..magically strong coffee, yes.

[Joltz]

I think that 4 hours is a bit much as well. Why do you think that people who want to stay caffeinated are constantly drinking? One hour is a simple enough duration.

I think the bonuses you have to begin with are a good starting point (spot, listen, initiative, and saves against sleep). I'm not sure what would come after that though. I'm not especially prone to drink enormous amounts of caffeinated beverages.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Perhaps +1 to fortitude saves when concerning endurace? (Running/swimming for an extended period of time)

Read the wiki article for justification.

[Duke of URL]

As a drawback, how about adding that anyone under the effects of caffeine may not gain the benefits of any type of "restful" activity (e.g., sleep, meditation, etc.)

[Edivad]

+1 to endurance-related Fortitude saves might be a bit too much. I have considered it also giving +1 Concentration, but I don't want to overdo it. Also, for the "negative"side, I was thinking that you would be in a "withdrawal"phase for some time...maybe the the same duration that you were caffeinated, possibly halved with a Fort save. So, for example, your character drinks a single cup, then after almost an hour but before the effects end he takes another.
He stays "caffeinated"and enjoys the bonuses for 2 hours. When the positive effects end, he should get some slight penalties lasting about 2 hours.
Easiest thing is to make the penalties the reverse of the bonus. So someone who has coffeine withdrawal has -1 Listen, -1 Spot, -1 Initiative and -2 against sleep effects, which sounds an "ok"way to represent stress/drowsiness..
Perhaps a Fortitude save(DC 15 or something?)might halve the duration.

[Thanatos 51-50]

How about negetives to concentration checks, as well?

Those headaches are killer.

Also, consider adding concentration bonuses while intoxicated, while in weather school, I dosed up on large amounts of caffiene to help my plotting/mapping/charting. I called it "Caffiene-induced genius". My classmates were extremly worried.

[Edivad]

Aye, I'm updating the first post as appropriate. I have also been thinking about the "appropriate"cost in a generic campaign for a cup of coffe...Checking "Food, Drink and Lodging"in the SRD tells me an ale mug costs 4 copper pieces.
If we assume that coffe is relatively wide-spread, but still not as cheap as booze, I think 1 sp could be an ok price..what do you think? Consider that it cannot really be compared to things like magic potion, as it's not really magic and it's got drawbacks. Plus the bonuses are really small, they are only likely to matter at low levels...That's why I suggested it would be useful for commoners, watchmen and city workers who need to stay up til late - which might include some low-life types...

[BisectedBrioche]

Technically caffeine is not inherently addictive, but it is possible to become dependant on it (it is possible to rely on it to function normally, but the dosages you need don't get any higher).

Some other points about caffeine you might want to take into account;


It is toxic to most creatures with humans being one of the few exceptions (plants actually produce it as a pesticide).
Some people have claimed large amounts can induce symptoms similar too several mental illnesses.
On average intoxication occurs after consuming 400mg of caffeine (4 strong cups of coffee, 5 cans of Red Bull, or 2-4 caffeine pills depending on the brand).
The LD50 (minimum dose to kill half a population) is 150-200mg per kilogram of body-mass in humans.
It works by blocking signals, specifically ones generated by adenocine. This increases the amount of dopamine (consider it a "Happy Chemical")produced.
In addition to being, as most people know, a diaretic and thus increasing urine production, caffeine is excreted in urine unchanged.
The liver breaks caffeine which isn't excreted down, as with any other drug.

[Thanatos 51-50]

What about the rules for being "high" on Caffiene (Such a thing is possible, I've done it) and the resulting withdrawl?

[Edivad]

I know spiders are HEAVILY affected by caffeine, and that it really shows in the way they spin their webs under their influence. Also, it's true that massive quantities of it can be lethal, but to get that kind of dosage you have to take caffeine pills, not normal cups, unless you take 100 or more.
Anyway, I don't think it's worth it to make too many complex rules...unless in your campaign the horrors of caffeine addiciton are that important. I'm 90% sure that caffeine CAN cause addiction, and that your body can get "used to"it, although it's obviously not as severe as other drugs.

I just thought that it might be interesting to make a whole netbook/large thread all about creating/statting non-alcoholicdrinks that can have interesting effects on adventurer....yes, it would be a really weird project. It might be related to alchemy/herbal netbooks, of which I think there are a few...
As I have written before, I remember there being several netbooks, at least for 2nd edition, about booze and the effects of alcohol.

[Thanatos 51-50]

That spider-caffiene picture is a fraud, an old anti-drug poster with the text modified.
Original text reads something like -
"A drug-free spider spins a perfect web and catches many flies."

"A spider on drugs spins a web full of holes and catches no flies"

I reserve the right to be wrong in this matter.

[Edivad]

That spider-caffiene picture is a fraud, an old anti-drug poster with the text modified.

I saw some pictures on that...a spider on drugs other than caffeine makes a slightly deformed web, but a spider on caffeine makes A MESS, not a web!
This is quoting from here (http://www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm)

* Spiders on marijuana made a reasonable stab at spinning webs but appeared to lose concentration about half-way through.
* Those on Benzedrine - "speed" - spin their webs "with great gusto, but apparently without much planning leaving large holes", according to New Scientist magazine.
* Caffeine, one of the most common drugs consumed by Britons in soft drinks, tea and coffee, makes spiders incapable of spinning anything better than a few threads strung together at random.
* On chloral hydrat, an ingredient of sleeping pills, spiders "drop off before they even get started".
If you really wanted to put that in a fantasy game, have some races be differently affected by caffeine. Some people say that dwarves should be more resistant to booze, for example. Well, you could make driders/aracnae/spider monsters very vulnerable to caffeine. It might even act as a "confusion"spell on them, if you wanted to be mean.

[Triaxx]

A concentration penalty for mages is in order, during the withdrawal. I know when I'm suffering from such effects, I start to become very, very irritable. Perhaps a chance to berserk?

[Thanatos 51-50]

Its already in there, as well as a concentration bonus when under the influence.

Basically, after the affects of the drug wears off, all benefits turn into negetives for an equivilent amount of time.

[Deesix]

Should really cover something about caffeine overdose. Case of the jitters, twitchy, paranoid. Happens when I drink 8 redbulls in a 2-hour period all the time. You're really aware, feel kind of tired, but can't sleep and can't focus.

[JackMage666]

Based on pg 31 of the Arms and Equipment guide, coffee is an exotic food item, costing 50 gp per pound. I don't normally make the coffee around here, but a lb of coffee can make, what, like 50 cups of coffee? Makeing the cost to create 1 gp a cup, doubling for profit to 2 gp a cup.

[Edivad]

Based on pg 31 of the Arms and Equipment guide, coffee is an exotic food item, costing 50 gp per pound. I don't normally make the coffee around here, but a lb of coffee can make, what, like 50 cups of coffee? Makeing the cost to create 1 gp a cup, doubling for profit to 2 gp a cup.
Umh, that's much more expensive than beer or ale, so by these rules it's not going to be a very common beverage for the lower classes. Although, with magic (especially druids), growing crops can be much cheaper and effective, reduing the cost greatly...

[Thanatos 51-50]

Based on pg 31 of the Arms and Equipment guide, coffee is an exotic food item, costing 50 gp per pound. I don't normally make the coffee around here, but a lb of coffee can make, what, like 50 cups of coffee? Makeing the cost to create 1 gp a cup, doubling for profit to 2 gp a cup.

2 dollars a cup?
At least the prices are better than StarBucks.

[jindra34]

2 dollars a cup?
At least the prices are better than StarBucks.

a gp equates to about $10

[Thanatos 51-50]

a gp equates to about $10

Sure, maybe to a commoner, but to the normally rich PCs? 2gp is EASY money, and so my view is skewed as my charecter's view is:
1 gp = $1

stupid rich PCs.

[Matthew]

Heh, I would say it's more like 1 Greyhawk Gold Coin = $20 or £10, given the current exchange rate...

[Edivad]

"By the rules", a level 1 Commoner or Expert with Wisdom/Charisma/Intelligence of 12 and 4 ranks in the appropriate skill(for a skill mod of +5)who takes 10 on his Profession/Perform/Craft will earn an average of 7.5 gold pieces a week...which actually is more than I thought.
Think there are threads on this forum talking just about that, that is how much non PCs would earn...anyway, 7.5 gp a week is 30 gp a month(assuming 4-weeks months), which means having just 1 gold piece/day to spend on things, assuming you don't save anything.
Having coffee sold at 2 gold piece/cup would make it a luxury for a commoner or expert, but trivial for nobles and wealthy people...which I think is how it should be.
Maybe the poor could buy "cheap"coffee which costs only 1/4 of the normal price, but has some drawback(other than just tasting very bad). These could be an increased duration for the negative effects or making the penalties -2 instead of -1...

[Matthew]

Don't even bother trying to work out how much Commoners earn per week. it's just one massive headache, because the economics of D&D just plain don't work. Best thing to do is value anything new relative to another item, rather than seek to value it against income earned.