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Piedmon_Sama
2017-03-27, 09:10 PM
I wrote a 3,500 word version of this post which was so rambly it was virtually unreadable. I'll try to be more concise on this take.

Here's the short version: my players brought something back from the wilderness to the town they were staying in that they didn't understand, and it got a lot of innocent people killed. The fact that they didn't intend to harm anybody doesn't help them much, considering it was purely recklessness on their part that caused the tragedy. Now their names are mud across the land. People scowl and whisper wherever they go, businesses often won't sell to them (and will hike prices if they do) and they are banned on pain of Being Shot Full of Holes from ever returning to the town they nearly destroyed---which is itself really inconvenient because that town is the gateway to the wilderness the players are supposed to be exploring. They went to the Baron and he was very "understanding," even "sympathetic," and knowing that they have virtually nowhere else to turn he's now using them as his personal expendable errand boys, which can't last. They now have better relationships with a local orc tribe and a gang of bandits than they do with the law-abiding people of the Barony.

What do? Accept that my players are evil now and adjust accordingly? Try to come up with some cockamamy way they can redeem themselves? Tell them they borked up and better roll new level 1s? Please provide comments and suggestions. It is an enormously involved comedy of errors that led up to this so I will provide details as asked.

TheCountAlucard
2017-03-27, 09:19 PM
Have the Wizard craft hats of disguise for the party.

Each PC crafts a persona that they then commit to. These will be their new identities. Their old identities die conveniently.

Fey
2017-03-27, 09:26 PM
You basically described the beginning of the plot of Final Fantasy IV. Let the characters have a bad reputation for awhile...it'll make roleplaying more interesting as they try to convince people of their good intentions, while atoning for their past bad deeds. They'll have to work harder to get people to trust them, which will make quests more interesting. They might visit a new town where their bad reputation precedes them, so they have to work hard to get the people's cooperation. They will have to demonstrate through their actions that their bad rep isn't deserved.

Just run with it. It sounds like a lot of fun.

Geigan
2017-03-27, 09:34 PM
I don't think it's a totally broken campaign at this point unless you and your players have lost all investment as a result of this turn of events. You can certainly turn this in whichever manner you want to go, though how you want to approach the tone is up to you.

I mean on one hand there's something to be said for PCs reaping what they sow. But I figure if the campaign is less fun with the town on their asses all the time, it would seem that after you feel they've been properly punished by having to endure everybody taking the piss out of them and having to work for this noble they possibly don't much care for, that you might throw them a bone.

If the comedy of errors that resulted in this was actually funny, then you could have funny get them out just as easily. Adventurers are famous for blundering into a villain's best laid plans. You might want to have them accidentally run into something from the wilds/elsewhere that was planning on destroying or causing even worse harm to the village and have them stop it in a way that will vindicate them (or at least make the town forget about their past recklessness). Plenty of stories take this kind of narrative turn, so it might turn out just fine. The flaw of this is that if it's too silly or contrived it might lighten the tone of the campaign a bit too much, or might just kill player investment if they had no particular investment in getting the town to like them in the first place.

If the party wants to get revenge on the town for threatening them, then I'd say they might make the first move on that front themselves possibly making allies with the orcs and/or bandits to ransack and loot the town. Have whoever helps them take the town over and serve as the new hub/gateway to the rest of the adventure. This would definitely be more of major turn towards the evil side of things, but if the party is just that spiteful over everything it might just be more interesting this way.


Can the adventure not reasonably go on without the town being a safe harbor for the adventurers?

If yes, then probably need to resolve that somehow in a somewhat soon-ish fashion.
If no, then no worries. Just let the PCs ignore the town, take the penalties for not having this safe harbor, and move on.

Piedmon_Sama
2017-03-27, 10:55 PM
Have the Wizard craft hats of disguise for the party.

Each PC crafts a persona that they then commit to. These will be their new identities. Their old identities die conveniently.

mMYezz... I like it, but I don't think my players will be willing to abandon their pride for the sake of some ungrateful peasants. They are in no way sympathetic to the views of the people they bereaved and firmly convinced they do not actually stand in the wrong.



Just run with it. It sounds like a lot of fun.

The campaign is in no danger of coming to an end (at least, not now---in the immediate aftermath I seriously considered stepping down).


You might want to have them accidentally run into something from the wilds/elsewhere that was planning on destroying or causing even worse harm to the village and have them stop it in a way that will vindicate them (or at least make the town forget about their past recklessness).

There actually IS an ancient and until-recently somnolent evil now awakening in the forest, plus a few smaller scale threats lurking in the sandbox. These will all eventually arise to menace the Shield Baronies if the players don't intervene (which they're well on their way to not doing.... they spent most of their energies in the last 20 sessions to trying to become vice lords in a cattle town instead of exploring the wilderness). So yeah, eventually it's gonna be Heroics or Die time.


If the party wants to get revenge on the town for threatening them, then I'd say they might make the first move on that front themselves possibly making allies with the orcs and/or bandits to ransack and loot the town. Have whoever helps them take the town over and serve as the new hub/gateway to the rest of the adventure. This would definitely be more of major turn towards the evil side of things, but if the party is just that spiteful over everything it might just be more interesting this way.

I'm alright with things taking that course but...
1) Back when their prospects looked better in the Barony, the party had an encounter with a detachment of the bandits and slew them all. The bandits' leader is not aware who killed his men but it's really a matter of time until he learns it was the party he just had a friendly face-to-face with. Then, well, he won't accept less than blood for blood.
2) The Town is under the protection of the Baron. The Baron is a poopy Baron yes, but he's also a level 10 fighter with an artifact fullblade who rides a griffon so he's not really somebody a rag-tag bunch of bandits and orcs want to take on. In fact, the reason the party met with the orcs is because they were surrenduring to the Baron. The orcs promised him tribute in exchange for rescinding the bounty of 30 gp for every pair of fresh orc ears brought to the Baron's court (for some reason the party ignored this hook, but they thought a handful of Dire Weasel pelts were worth bringing to the Baron.... go figure). The reason the Baron isn't out making the wilderness safer is that he already carved out his own piece of it to rule.

EDIT: actually to be more clear, there is a lot of tension between the townsfolk and the Baron---the people pride themselves on their independence and resent his taxes, while the Baron strongly dislikes the more independent and wealthy among his subjects. In fact the first thing he said when the players came to him with their story was "ah, all that and [the town's wealthiest citizen] didn't die. Too bad." Neverthless the Baron would perform his duty if outsiders attacked the hamlet.


]Can the adventure not reasonably go on without the town being a safe harbor for the adventurers?
It can, it's just.... not convenient. Basically for geographic reasons going south around the stricken hamlet is not feasable. Going north and around takes the party through the rugged Ogreskull Hills, which adds two days of travel and two days of potential wilderness encounters to their trip. That's two more days they have to supply for, two more days of mischance possibly befalling their mounts and beasts of burden, etc. Not fatal, but annoying. It's probable that I'm actually more annoyed by all of this than the players are---after all, they're not in any particular hurry to explore my painstakingly crafted dungeons if there's easier ways to make cash.
Here's a crude map of the setting I threw together so you guys can have some idea of what I'm talking about:
https://i.imgur.com/jhyDLAG.png

OK see Stormcrown Village is figuratively and literally the center of the Barony and where the Baron's court is located. It's also the only place big enough for the PCs to sell off loot. Grifflet is the hamlet that the PCs almost destroyed. It's on the very edge of the Barony and borders the Eastwylde, which is the wilderness; the nearest part of the Eastwylde is called the Green Corridor because it's between a mesa to the north and a series of cliffs breaking off to the south called The Gullies (so if you looked at the landscape with a bird's eye view the Green Corridor is kind of like a giant stair). There is more Eastwylde on the north side of the plateau but south of the gullies is just flatland country.

Following the disaster at Grifflet, Summerstream has taken the reasonable measure of shutting its doors to outsiders. Mossgather is high up in the hills and so infrequently visited that it doesn't even have an inn, but that's the way by which the PCs have made their last two excursions to the Wylde---taking the serpentine path through the hills, staying the night at Mossgather's meadery and continuing the next day down into the Corridor.

So you see (I hope) why Grifflet being a no-go zone is kind of a pain the keyster.

Koo Rehtorb
2017-03-27, 11:03 PM
It's not your responsibility to dictate what happens from now. It's on the players to direct the flow of the game.

If they want to embrace being evil outlaws they can do that. If they want to redeem themselves they can come up with a plan to do that (if they pursue it you can certainly throw things their way that they can work with here). If they want to quit and make new characters they can say they want to do that too.

This isn't your problem.

thamolas
2017-03-27, 11:18 PM
It's not your responsibility to dictate what happens from now. It's on the players to direct the flow of the game.

If they want to embrace being evil outlaws they can do that. If they want to redeem themselves they can come up with a plan to do that (if they pursue it you can certainly throw things their way that they can work with here). If they want to quit and make new characters they can say they want to do that too.

This isn't your problem.

Exactly this ^^

Rick's dark past is one of the things that makes Rick & Morty so interesting and makes Rick a deeper character. The players should relish the opportunity to sink their teeth into such fun potential arcs! Especially if characters disagree and conflict when the desirable aspects of redemption and outlawry collide during game play. Sounds like a pretty ideal situation.

Geigan
2017-03-28, 12:08 AM
mMYezz... I like it, but I don't think my players will be willing to abandon their pride for the sake of some ungrateful peasants. They are in no way sympathetic to the views of the people they bereaved and firmly convinced they do not actually stand in the wrong.

snip...

There actually IS an ancient and until-recently somnolent evil now awakening in the forest, plus a few smaller scale threats lurking in the sandbox. These will all eventually arise to menace the Shield Baronies if the players don't intervene (which they're well on their way to not doing.... they spent most of their energies in the last 20 sessions to trying to become vice lords in a cattle town instead of exploring the wilderness). So yeah, eventually it's gonna be Heroics or Die time.

It can, it's just.... not convenient.

snip...

So you see (I hope) why Grifflet being a no-go zone is kind of a pain the keyster. It sounds like this isn't that big a problem in practice, beyond creating slightly more recurring challenge for the PCs to deal with that is kind of annoying. I think the PCs can live with it, but if they aren't sympathetic to the town in anyway to begin with, there's no real reason for them to care about saving it when **** goes down. Might want to work on that if you want them to actually care at some juncture, but it sounds like they stand with the baron to some degree here?

If so you can probably nudge the plot forward by having the baron throw a line to them to go investigate some disturbance in the actual wilderness to get the ball rolling. Take that hook from there and have them run into some of those minor threats you're talking about and you can probably string it along from there to wherever it is you want them to get a chance to explore.

If nothing else you can have the setup of them potentially having to protect the ungrateful town, which could be loads of fun.

All that said though, if the players are creating their own fun then might as well let them go that route. You're the only one who decides how fast things in the world need to progress, so don't stress if they're taking it easy for now. If you decide things aren't moving along or it seems like the party is getting bored you can always hook them back in another direction.


I'm alright with things taking that course but...
1) Back when their prospects looked better in the Barony, the party had an encounter with a detachment of the bandits and slew them all. The bandits' leader is not aware who killed his men but it's really a matter of time until he learns it was the party he just had a friendly face-to-face with. Then, well, he won't accept less than blood for blood.
2) The Town is under the protection of the Baron. The Baron is a poopy Baron yes, but he's also a level 10 fighter with an artifact fullblade who rides a griffon so he's not really somebody a rag-tag bunch of bandits and orcs want to take on. In fact, the reason the party met with the orcs is because they were surrenduring to the Baron. The orcs promised him tribute in exchange for rescinding the bounty of 30 gp for every pair of fresh orc ears brought to the Baron's court (for some reason the party ignored this hook, but they thought a handful of Dire Weasel pelts were worth bringing to the Baron.... go figure). The reason the Baron isn't out making the wilderness safer is that he already carved out his own piece of it to rule. I mean obstacles are obstacles, but it's the group's choice if that's where they want to go. Might want to consider if they'd actually reasonably ally with some of those threats creeping out of the Green Corridor down the road.


EDIT: actually to be more clear, there is a lot of tension between the townsfolk and the Baron---the people pride themselves on their independence and resent his taxes, while the Baron strongly dislikes the more independent and wealthy among his subjects. In fact the first thing he said when the players came to him with their story was "ah, all that and [the town's wealthiest citizen] didn't die. Too bad." Neverthless the Baron would perform his duty if outsiders attacked the hamlet. I'm actually curious who the players sympathize more with at the moment, because depending you might want to re-orient the campaign around whoever they like more to keep things interesting. Basically give them more reasons to care about what happens to the characters in this world. I think you might find them becoming more invested in doing things for or in relation to them more readily if they find reasons to like them as people or at least find them particularly interesting.

Piedmon_Sama
2017-03-28, 01:11 AM
I think the PCs like the Baron (who's named Otgar Greatsword) because he's basically this totally selfish rogue, and they "get" that. One of them actually said "this guy is cool, he's basically us." Otgar was once an adventurer, who carved a 24x24 mile domain out of the Eastwylde against the Orcs and Faeries and was created a Baron by the King 15 years ago. He's essentially been something between a guardian of the marketplace and robber-in-chief ever since. I don't think the PCs even remember this but there's been an ugly rumor ever since he founded Stormcrown that he made sure he was the only survivor out of his band of adventuring companions. Literally everyone remarks on his mercurial and untrustworthy nature but thus far he's been a generous patron to the PCs: he dubbed the Paladin a knight and gave the PCs a fief of 4 acres of sourgrass and a half-collapsed barn on the village's western edge (the PCs need to make the fief profitable within the year and kick some moolah up to Greatsword, or they lose it). Basically the players know they're only as useful to Otgar as the latest thing they've done for him, but in that sense they know where they stand. Plus I basically play him as Kevin Nash so I think they enjoy that.

I mean, if they want to play nothing but legbreakers for Otgar that's cool, and there's actually enough material for a whole campaign just in that, probably. (For example: Otgar's bailiff in the village is connected to a gang of Wererats from the big city who have a grudge against the PCs. He's reporting their whereabouts to the Rats' assassins.) But like in a month you're gonna have orcs and ghouls swarming out of the Eastwylde and the players are gonna be like "whaaaaaaat"

Geigan
2017-03-28, 01:30 AM
See that's great. You can work that angle. Plus, if you're really hurting for ways to hook them into the wilderness I'd reiterate that if you can give the Baron a reason to care, then a reason for the PCs to care naturally follows. Some disturbance or hint that something in the forest is coming or there's just general trouble or the locals won't shut up about something going on in that direction and the Baron is tired of listening to it. Have him ask the PCs to go check it out and bam there you go. If the chore is particularly onerous tell them he'll give them some decent capital/resources to pimp their land out if they solve whatever's bothering him.

Just remember that if the PCs are having fun, and don't necessarily have a reason to go engage with the things you were planning on, then it might be fine to just let em **** around. Not to say you can't have the plot you were planning, but just use your own judgment on what'll make things most interesting. If the game is fun you're doing your job just fine.

Crisis21
2017-03-28, 01:32 AM
One thing to keep in mind is that you don't need to have everyone forgive the PCs... just enough of them. They may redeem themselves in the eyes of most, but there could always be a few holdouts who refuse to forget or forgive.

Beneath
2017-03-28, 01:43 AM
You could put more adventures in the mountains. Maybe they stumble across something connected to one of the awakening evils or something. If they're fine with not being able to go in that village and your main problem is that that village is the way from the market to all your painstakingly-crafted dungeons (except for the mountain way, which is more inconvenient and so makes them less likely to deal with it), then the solution is to bring the adventure closer to them.

Once the evils start awakening they can try to fix their reputations then. Or ruin them further.

Piedmon_Sama
2017-03-28, 02:23 AM
I may have made the dungeons my players explored a little too tough…. back in session 3 when they were level 1 they went to this mysterious landmark (the entrance to the first dungeon I wanted them to go to). The landmark was a three-sided obelisk with alcoves in which stood three ancient bronze Doomguards (robot mooks from DMGII 3rd ed, CR2). To make it a little spookier I decided that the sorcerer-druids who crafted the bronze guardians 2,000 years ago had put a powerful enchantment on them that made their bronze plates invulnerable to nonmagical damage. Thus no matter how hard the PCs smacked the robutz, they would seem unharmed. However, they were intended by the dungeon creator only as a test of prowess and courage: once 22 hp of damage was done (enough to destroy a standard Doomguard) they would deactivate and remain still until the PCs left. In fact the PCs deactivated one, then the alchemist dropped a grenade through a slit in its helmet and destroyed it anyway. However they were sufficiently freaked out that when Doomguard nos. 2 and 3 dropped out of their alcoves ready to rumble, the PCs ran away and never returned to the obelisk. That dungeon remained undone and the PCs are level 4, high enough that it would scarcely be worth their time. The obelisk is actually the nearest of four obelisk-marked dungeons which have to be done in sequence to unlock a 5th-level dungeon holding the tomb of an ancient Druidical warrior-king. This early misadventure set a pattern that has repeated through the campaign: I come up with some homebrew wackiness I think is super cool and then it scares off my players and they just never do the adventure. Trying to combine an OSR/Do-It-Yourself OD&D aesthetic with Pathfinder, where everything’s supposed to be explained and outlined in some book or another, has proven very difficult in this way. My players’ thought process is clearly, why go into Piedmon’s dungeons and probably get killed by his homebrewed nonsense when we can befriend the powerful and make money in the Shield Baronies?

What they don’t realize (or are maybe beginning to realize) is even though the campaign is fundamentally an old school sandbox of wilderness and dungeons, there is sort of a plot taking shape in the background. Basically there is a league or loose detente of badguys pursuing their own agendas out in the wilderness. This is because I’m a sucker for the whole League of Evil trope--I love the idea of a bunch of distinctive villains with their own personalities putting their egos aside juuust enough to form a shaky alliance---think the Injustice Gang or the Gun-Ho Guns. There’s also the matter of rival adventuring parties--the PCs are far from the only ones looking to plunder the Eastwylde. My initial idea was to present the PCs with lots of options but not leave the world static---like, they didn’t do the obelisk, so now some other party is doing it. Unfortunately this competitive atmosphere means my players never merely let time pass. An hour wasted is an hour they may get scooped, so time is passing incredibly slowly in the campaign---we’ve played 27 sessions over a year and more and the time passed in the gameworld is May 20 to June 12. That’s what, 23 days? So the setting has scarcely had time to change much--I initially projected my villains’ schemes unfolding over the course of months, so I don’t know what I need to do to get my players to say “okay, we spend a few weeks clearing the ground on our fief and training” but I’d like them to take a more laid-back approach like that without losing the whole competitive aspect?

hymer
2017-03-28, 02:30 AM
You could consider talking to the players and finding out what they would prefer. Are they up for a campaign of redeeming themselves? Would they like to play an evil group? How about starting with new PCs?

Maybe you'll find out some things to help you navigate from such a conversation.

ATHATH
2017-03-28, 02:42 AM
Does the town have a dominant religion? Making nice with a well-respected god (who can tell his followers that the PCs are "alright") might help a lot.

Piedmon_Sama
2017-03-28, 02:43 AM
You could put more adventures in the mountains. Maybe they stumble across something connected to one of the awakening evils or something. If they're fine with not being able to go in that village and your main problem is that that village is the way from the market to all your painstakingly-crafted dungeons (except for the mountain way, which is more inconvenient and so makes them less likely to deal with it), then the solution is to bring the adventure closer to them.

Once the evils start awakening they can try to fix their reputations then. Or ruin them further.

This is something I really need to do. My first batch of dungeons/adventure-hooks largely went ignored. I need some fresh ones a little more conveniently located. Of course, I could recycle the hard stuff (like maps!) that my players never saw so my unused Elven Temple ruin becomes an ancient Giant's Mausoleum in the hills but eggghhhh the pedant in me will know I cheated.

hymer
2017-03-28, 03:56 AM
This is something I really need to do. My first batch of dungeons/adventure-hooks largely went ignored. I need some fresh ones a little more conveniently located. Of course, I could recycle the hard stuff (like maps!) that my players never saw so my unused Elven Temple ruin becomes an ancient Giant's Mausoleum in the hills but eggghhhh the pedant in me will know I cheated.

Then let me stand up and applaud your inner pedant! Well done! A DM must have pride in their work! Which is basically me patting myself on the shoulder for doing and feeling the same thing.

Finding other reasons to visit those adventure sites might be less hard on the conscience.

Rynjin
2017-03-28, 04:06 AM
Why does everybody everywhere know what they did? I understand in the actual town it happened, and maybe the next couple of towns over...but everywhere? Why? Who spread that news, complete with pictures and a full list of names?

If I were them I'd be trying to track down the guy who actively sabotaged their rep, because he has to have some ulterior motive.

Piedmon_Sama
2017-03-28, 01:19 PM
It's not "everybody everywhere." It's "everybody in the Barony of Stormcrown" which is about 24 miles (a days' horseride) across. Even then it took about two days for word to spread across the Barony. Also it's really not hard to recognize the PCs--they've got a cavalier riding a War Bull with a dead leprechaun impaled on his lance, and a Paladin in a white cape with a melted golden eagle insignia on the breastplate. Those are the kind of details that would get picked up on in any retelling. Also peoples' understanding isn't perfect---the Paladin is the one who basically catches all the flak (they're being called "the Poison Paladin Gang" even) even though it was the Slayer who actually did the reckless thing that got almost 80 people killed. But Slayer's just some chick in a hood, the Paladin's the leader and the recognizable one so he's treated like the primary culprit.

Beneath
2017-03-28, 03:57 PM
Slow down their rivals' pace if you want them to slow their own, I'd say.

Maybe a rival adventuring party comes back from a dungeon laden with treasure and one of their porters or torchbearers or other miscellaneous henchmen gets drunk and starts blabbing about how they saw an even bigger treasure but couldn't figure out how to get to it (across a chasm, through a barred portcullis, blocked by a wall of force, or maybe permanently invisible stone blocks, or something. or there was a sealed door leading to what they have every reason to think is a treasure vault that they can't open), and if they investigate their rivals are spending a couple weeks researching before making another attempt, giving them a window to scoop them.

Or they could decide that instead of adventuring they'll set up shop and try to skim off the top of other people's adventuring gold. That works too; that's how the people who really got rich off historical gold rushes did it.

GPS
2017-03-28, 05:08 PM
Have the Wizard craft hats of disguise for the party.

Each PC crafts a persona that they then commit to. These will be their new identities. Their old identities die conveniently.
I love this one. It's pretty much foolproof, as if your players are ever discovered they can just kill the unhatter.

Mastikator
2017-03-29, 12:40 AM
Can't they just leave the Barony and try their luck someplace else?

Lo'Tek
2017-03-29, 02:59 AM
What they don’t realize ... X is actually Y ...
I can relate to that. Been there so often: there is this story i planned and my players are just missing the plot hooks, and do something else. Wanting to tell a story is an important part of beeing a DM, but a public, search engine indexed forum is not the right place to tell ;-) More so as it is also irrelevant for your original question.
I fully understand your need to get the story out there. Be strong little DM, the time will come.


But like in a month ...
I ran this type of story and one player complained that it feels to him like i am running my story and they are just pawns on a bigger board. Be careful.

The bad guys plan should not happen on the 7th of July. It should unfold after the heroes know that there is a team evil, might reasonably be able to guess that there is a plan and should be able to understand that their job is to act against it. Otherwise the heroes are not the protagonists. They are extras in the villains story.

Then again some might enjoy an apocalyptic scenario and cleaning the mess up is a heroic deed. It also solves their "damaged the village" problem, because the village is now completly gone. To be honest your groups "we ignore the dungeon" mentality sounds a bit like ending the apocalypse, instead of preventing it, may even be the better quest for them. Just dont blame them for the apocalypse, too. If what they knew was enough, they will already do that themself.



Going north and around [...] adds two days of travel
So they are shot if they get close? With what? Automatic laser guided missle turrets? Sniper nests? Just dont walk in the middle of town. If they pass along the outskirts, they may get close enough so a farmer making hay can see them. (Anyone here has an image showing a person at different distances?) At half a mile you can barely see that there is a group with horses. Could be them, could be someone else. Sure he might run and gather an angry mob. But do those farmers really want to engage? Are they willing to get close enough to have a chance to hit with bows? How long does it take to get an armed mob and where is the group then? Those farmers are annoying if the group gets into "throw rocks and shout obscenities" range but i find it hard to belief their threats extend to six miles south of the village. And the north is even easier, because hills block line of sight. How far do the farms even extend in those directions?
Taking a two day trip around means "the villagers will not even know they went by". But that was not the point. The threat was about "entering the village".

Either way the problem is not that your players can not use this route. It is that they do not want to, because it will make them feel bad and they have no real reason.
And that is the problem: They have no good reason to take an inconvenient route to explore the east (fast). And if fast is not a problem, two days are not a problem.


two days of potential wilderness encounters
Just how high is the monster density in this region?
There must be something very scary in the east if the dangerous predators move west in these numbers. Another good rumor. Isn't there anyone stupid heroic enough to go and have a look? Hey Baron do something about this!



I could recycle the hard stuff (like maps!)
Why not create a new batch of the easy stuff, like hooks? So the group is in the city once again and hey a bard is performing. One of the songs is about an elven priestess and her tragic love story and it just features, as a side note, a reason to search the temple ruins.

After all, why run into a death trap if all you have to go on is "death traps may have loot" with a chance of "or not" and a downside of "which we may not need"


unlock [...] the tomb of an ancient [...]
So the price for beating four dungeons is another dungeon? I would pass on that, too. Please tell me that tomb at least holds the great artifact of asskicking, not a legendary dmpc deus ex machina. Add other adventure groups also going for the quest and see above comment about "pawns on a bigger board". The heroes should solve the big problem, not solve a small problem and get told that somehow solves the big problem without further need for them. I know i assume the worst here, but i am seeing some red flags in your short writeup of the campaign. Sry.


why go into Piedmon’s dungeons and probably get killed
Yeah, why? To find a 2000 year old book that explains why there are dungeons? That is a stupid price!
I know by now i am just ranting, but srsly, why go into the dungeon?


But back to the original question

What do?
Nuthin.
Unless it was very clear they should not have brought it back ("they didn't understand" <- it radiates strong magic, pure evil, and there is a countdown on it, which part did you not understand?) the setup sounds a bit unfair to me.
But it happened and now THEY have to deal with it. Not you. Don't just handwave it.
There are ways to clear their name. For example, if they ask him for it, the Baron could sent someone to the other villages to tell the people that he, as an authority, had looked into it and decided they are not to blame, because it was not their fault, but instead the fault of someone he dislikes, and they simply were tricked into carrying the bomb. Their reputation will still be bad, but not horrible and they can now get access to the village in the south. Where some Gnoll raiders just attacked and took people as slaves.
"Yeah i heard they are responsible for X but the Baron said its a bit more complicated, they said it was an accident and are very sorry, and they did free my wife, so... no hard feelings i guess?"

SecretlyaFish
2017-03-29, 04:27 AM
You gave a level 10 baron who surveys a 24x24 mile area in some random place a full on artifact sword? So, not like a +3 Vorpal Longsword or something like that (don't want him to suck after all, he's only rich and rides a griffon), he needed a full on artifact? The area he surveys literally 1 days horseride in any direction? That's where you want your PC's to stay? Maybe the Paladin would have reason to stay and try to atone but if it seems actually impossible to do so, why not just leave? Confining oneself to a tiny part of the world where everyone hates them seems the height of stupidity. It would cost gold etc to find new identities and for wizards spells to be placed, which would eventually be discovered, and lying is not going to be in the Paladins to do list either. It would cost near nothing to leave.

I'd leave and try their luck in a new kingdom/province or whatever your game world consists of. As the DM you are in part responsible for this predicament you are in as well. You've made everything significantly more difficult for them, and maybe its realistic in your setting but its still a game and games are meant to be fun. TANGENT - I read a post recently about a DM having to kick out a player out of his group. They were in a adventure guild and the leader barbarian (the player that got kicked out) wasn't asking for a reward for their finished quests and instead was just given the next task, not being offered by whoever gave them the quest either (the DM). Complete non issue, one of the other PC's could have spoken up and said "Uh hey I'm not the leader but what about our reward we completed the finished task". At the same time the DM's action and apparent idiotic logic that the same person giving them all these quests would keep giving them new ones, not asking if the previous one had been completed... Well, there also falls that responsibility on the DM in making things needlessly more difficult than it needs to be.

I like to play in the forgotten realms setting, 24x24 mile area is a freaking tiny. If I don't like what's happening in that area of the world, I find another one. Simple and easy. You as the DM need to give them more solutions or tell them to leave to find a new place where people don't hate them. Unless you'd like all your hard work for this session/adventure to come to an end. Being stubborn to the point of possibly ending a whole campaign isn't the right way to go about this.

War_lord
2017-03-29, 07:43 AM
So, to recap the first time they went near a dungeon, they got attacked by three monsters they couldn't effectively fight. The second time, they weren't even in a dungeon, and they found a thing that later killed 80 people and got the blame pinned on them? And you're wondering why they're happy to sod the whole dungeon crawl thing and just be thugs-for-hire?

Every time they tried to do typical heroic fantasy stuff, they got punished. So they've obviously concluded that this must be a Sword & Sorcery setting. Perhaps the best thing to do, is throw out what you planned, and give them more of what they're actually enjoying.

NecroDancer
2017-03-29, 08:37 AM
Cast plane-shift and start a new life as goat herders on their perfered outer plane.

GPS
2017-03-29, 09:36 AM
Cast plane-shift and start a new life as goat herders on their perfered outer plane.
It's the only 100% solution

Nightcanon
2017-03-29, 11:51 AM
Your original post notes "accept that my players are evil now, and adjust accordingly" as an option (perhaps even the first option), but doesn't indicate that they are evil. Yes, they have garnered themselves a bad reputation, and might be seen by some as evil if it is thought they intentionally unleashed disaster, but that doesn't make them evil. They might get a mob of relatives of the deceased throwing rocks at them and denouncing them as murderers, but being personae non grata doesn't make them evil, either. It's entirely possible for the PCs to act in a Good (or Neutral) way in response to this situation.

Beneath
2017-03-29, 09:55 PM
So, to recap the first time they went near a dungeon, they got attacked by three monsters they couldn't effectively fight. The second time, they weren't even in a dungeon, and they found a thing that later killed 80 people and got the blame pinned on them? And you're wondering why they're happy to sod the whole dungeon crawl thing and just be thugs-for-hire?

Every time they tried to do typical heroic fantasy stuff, they got punished. So they've obviously concluded that this must be a Sword & Sorcery setting. Perhaps the best thing to do, is throw out what you planned, and give them more of what they're actually enjoying.

+1

If you want to lure them into dungeons, the perceived difficulty should be lower, and the reward should be higher (high enough to justify doing something a lot more difficult and dangerous than being the baron's goons). You set them against a fight against three invulnerable CR 2 creatures at level 1 before they even got into the dungeon (a single CR 2 construct being plenty for a boss fight for a level 1 party); I think even if the other two doomguards hadn't shown up and scared them off, they likely wouldn't have had the per-day resources to go through.

Homebrew wackiness should probably start off lower CR than their level, if they're used to things they can know the stats of and don't have prior warning. If they've learned in advance what something's notable powers are, then they're better equipped to handle it even if it's a boss fight.

One idea I might offer is to try to make a dungeon with only conventional monsters that are weaker than them, with a connection to the big bads that they can find out about and significantly more treasure than they can get in the barony in a similar amount of time. Stick it in the mountains and make sure they know about it.

On a more meta level, figure out what you want them to do and incentivize it by making it the best way to get treasure and EXP (both in terms of "there's the most here" and also "the stuff you need to do for it is attainable" and also not telling them off for doing it instead of other things). Do you want them to sit around and tend their manse? Then that's where the money is (or maybe it is once they've invested well in it), and they don't hear about adventuring parties taking treasure they could have gotten while they do. Do you want them to go out and crawl dungeons? Indulge your monty haul DM side, at least for a little, and handwave anything about how an untended manse would fall into disrepair (4 acres isn't enough to support a steward, most likely).

Piedmon_Sama
2017-03-29, 10:55 PM
Wew, ton of in-depth stuff to reply to here! It's kind of hard to respond to all of it without writing a short novel, so what I'll do is clarify the events of Eastwylde Sessions 18-19 and give an (I hope) objective account.

-Okay so the thing that happened was the players found another homebrew item I made up and brought it back to Grifflet. What they brought back was twelve barrels of MYSTERIOUS LIQUID, which the Druid and Alchemist were able to tell contained a mix of druidic and arcane magic (indicating the Faeries of the Eastwylde created this stuff, which I'm pretty sure I told the party). They took it to the rector of the shrine at Grifflet, a fifth-level expert I created to act as a sort of general-purpose sage for the party's assistance. Unfortunately they never pay this guy anything, so he's not inclined to give up much specifics. But he basically tells them: "you shouldn't take things out of the Fairy's domain but since you did, take this to a wizard in Stormcrown, get it identified and don't mess with it until you know exactly what it does IMO."

-Instead, the Paladin shoves a tap into one of the barrels and pours out a cup of sweet-smelling golden mead. He drinks it. I facepalm. The mead was one of three different drinks the fairies brewed (four of each kind among the barrels) and definitely the worst. Basically each drink had one effect if you drank it in Fairyland (presumably as a guest of the Fairies) and a different effect if you drank it outside. Here's what the mead does if you drink it outside the Fairies' domain (trigger warning, sex body horror) -

Upon drinking the mead, the imbiber sprouts flowers stemming from their face, collar and shoulders and becomes heavily intoxicated and amorous. They gain 1d6 Cha for 1d4 hours; nobody thinks flowers growing from the person's face is weird (no weirder than you would mark it if you were effected by Charm Person). Once the imbiber lays with someone, the unfortunate partner is implanted with six seeds (or three in case of a small character) which grow overnight and burst from the person's body (virtually always fatal, for obvious reasons), grown into gremlin-sized ambulatory floral monsters.

Here's my drawing of the petalbeasts, as I've dubbed them -

https://i.imgur.com/gJUE6Vq.jpg

So as it happened, the night of the party's return there was a party being held at Grifflet's inn, the Silver Dragon. This was because due to various other violent incidents all caused by my players over the last two weeks (gameworld-time), Otgar had sent some mercenary troops in to guard the town who arrived that night, and also because the cavalier killed a Manticore on his way back from the forest and everybody agreed that was worth celebrating. So the Paladin starts flirting it up with a daughter of one of the three squires whose manors border the town, and easily impresses her with his aromatic charm and general swagger. Her brother tries to intervene and gets intimidated off. She suggests they grab a coach back to her manor a few miles south and they do so. At this point I'm thinking this will be a minor tragedy, also this was the Sunday night the Steelers spanked the Chiefs super hard on TV so I was a little distracted.

-The Slayer (to be clear the party at this point is: Druid, Slayer, Paladin, Cavalier, Alchemist) then carts the barrel of mead uphill to the inn, takes it to the party and starts selling drinks for a goldpiece. I was in pieces giggling as my campaign fell to pieces in front of me and on TV Andy Reid's butt got kicked up and down the gridiron. But **** it, you know? I rolled to see how many sales the Slayer made: 15, and the Druid bought a drink also. The Slayer also slipped it into the drink of one of the party's hirelings who she had a problem with (because the hireling's sister, not the hireling herself, sharped Slayer at cards, which IC the Slayer didn't know but in her player's words "I'm a sore loser anyway.")

So we have 16 x 6 + 3 = 99 monsters on the loose. Cue a miniature apocalypse of bloodshed and screaming just before dawn the next morning as bakers' dozens of the Petalbeasts burst out of quiescent sleepers and tear apart their lover, at the inn and in various homesteads across Grifflet. To explain a little more, Grifflet is basically arranged along a road North to South, with small dales northwards where sheep herds graze and grassy fields for cattle along the middle. Although the two hamlets are six miles apart there really isn't a strict place where Grifflet ends and Summerstream starts--you just have more small farms strung along the road, until you reach Grifflet's mainstreet or Summerstream's marketplace. I scribbled out a map of the area (just so I'd know where the various farms, rental lodges, tithe-barns &c. dotting the country were) but it's too huge to scan so here's a poopy photo of a small part of it -

http://i.imgur.com/dpv75Mv.jpg?1

The Paladin managed to save the Squire's daughter with some healing and slew his half-dozen magical progeny while the Druidess ran away. "I hope you always treasure that 15 gp, Jim" I says u__U

So next session, the party collects itself and repairs to the inn, where they're joined by the soldiers and several NPC adventurers who are completely confused as to what's going on. Once the inn is secured, they agree to sweep the area in different groups to try and hunt down all the beasts. Basically I'm checked out for this whole session because I'm plotting out the petalbeast pack movements, trying to gauge the destruction; that's okay because the World Series was on and like three of my players were more occupied with that anyway (seriously baseball, WTF). I had the PCs roll essentially to determine how fast they got to various farms, how many petalbeasts they cornered, how many they killed, but I didn't bother doing full combats for each because that'd be nuts.

Eventually I came up with these numbers: 74 people were killed in the district of Grifflet proper (at the shrine, inn, and various free farmers' steads) and something like six at the Manors/tenant-districts (where armed men were more readily on hand FWIW); of the 19 freesteader families around Grifflet four were wiped out and fifteen lost at least one family member. Of the petalbeasts about twenty escaped in a random direction.

Next session opens at 10 PM that day, sunset. The town's survivors are gathered in the great hall of the shrine plus the troops and adventurers. The dead (which tragically includes the Shrine's sexton, the guy who actually knew how to embalm bodies...) are wrapped in gory sheets and stacked like cordwood in the shrine's yard.

Things get ugly, fast. Between the innkeeper and rector's testimony, a clear picture of the preceding night's events begins to emerge. The Paladin is shocked, shocked that these people whose dead friends are now moldering about 100' away are so upset with him and his friends. The word "ingrates" gets tossed. The Cavalier's player repeatedly notes that it really makes no sense for them not to throw the Slayer under the bus, but "PvP" (defined as "screwing another PC in any way") is kind of unofficially verboten in our group for reasons that go back long before I began my campaign. The PCs put up a united front, insist they did nothing wrong, and actually the rector should be punished for criminal negligence since his 90 year-old ass didn't stop them (....)

To try and keep this from running much longer I'll just say the innkeeper already had his own reasons for disliking the PCs and had been plotting to turn the townsfolk against them for a while (he's just a lvl 3 commoner with age penalties btw). Now of course he had the perfect opportunity and used the Paladin's rebuke as a spur to rally the gathered townsfolk into a united front. The PCs were told the foundations they had laid for their distillery would be torn up and they would be forbidden from returning to Grifflet, and that they had to depart that very night. The authorities gathered (the soldiers as well as Otgar's bailiff) agreed the PCs should leave at least to avoid a fracasse. Which was where we left off that session.

So, obvs that was a while back. Four months actually. The campaign is not in any danger of ending now (next sesh is in 4 days and will be no. 27) but I feel like it's been rudderless since session 19. My players may not actually share that feeling. They've been enjoying acting as Otgar's emissaries to the Orcs and also enjoying the newly acquired fear and trepidation that follows their steps. THE WORST IS BEHIND US.

I'm just not totally sure where to go with this? Again, time moves so slowly in-game that while this happened IRL back in November, in game time it's been five days. The dust has not settled. I don't want Grifflet to dominate the game but so long as they're in the Shield Baronies I don't want the players to just get off scot-free either? It's a lot to grapple with, especially because this campaign has so many factions and so many moving parts.

War_lord
2017-03-29, 11:05 PM
So why did you hand them barrels of cursed mead in the first place? I'm sorry, but you seem totally fine with screwing your players so long as it's entertaining for you, and now that they've adjusted to your tendencies, you're bored because they're taking low risk work. You made the mess trying to punish them, they're still having fun, stop trying to screw them and let the campaign keep moving.

Piedmon_Sama
2017-03-29, 11:10 PM
How have they been screwed, other than being told not to come back to one part of the map? I mean it's irritating but they're hardly done-for. In fact I'm basically asking if that should be it or if I should consider further fallout.

e: Fallout, btw, doesn't mean "punishment." I have never and will never "punish" my players.

ee: I know that some people really don't like cursed items in their campaigns. I did warn my players waaay back at the start that those would be a thing, and they OK'd it FWIW.

eee: I mean for real, look at the thread title. If I had my druthers I would like to remove this whole thing rather than deal with it. I'm not hyperventilating like "oh no my precious setting..... they hurt my imaginary friends... THEY MUST PAYYYYY"

BUT, the players did not accept my offer for a mulligan, so deal with it is what I intend to do. I also don't intend to remove any of the wacky invented stuff they haven't come across yet. I enjoy a certain degree of chaos. For ex., if they had drank the mead where they found it rather than bringing it back, they would have gained the charisma bonus without the attached curse. It's not like I invent things only to hurt or hinder the PCs; the reverse of a Monty Haul campaign is just as boring IMO.

War_lord
2017-03-29, 11:49 PM
How have they been screwed, other than being told not to come back to one part of the map? I mean it's irritating but they're hardly done-for. In fact I'm basically asking if that should be it or if I should consider further fallout.

If the Barony of butthump nowhere (seriously, your setting is tiny) is the entire setting, then no, there should not be further consequences. Realistically, the whole area should be just waiting for an excuse to whip up an angry mob and lynch the lot of them. But equally realistically the party would have a chance to sense which way the wind is blowing and skip town (metaphorically) in the middle of the night.


e: Fallout, btw, doesn't mean "punishment." I have never and will never "punish" my players.

What looks like "fallout" to the omnipotent inhabitant of the DM's chair, looks very different to the players on the receiving end.


eee: I mean for real, look at the thread title. If I had my druthers I would like to remove this whole thing rather than deal with it. I'm not hyperventilating like "oh no my precious setting..... they hurt my imaginary friends... THEY MUST PAYYYYY"

If you didn't want this to happen, why did you create the potential for it to happen in the first place? You allowed something to happen that should have far reaching consequences, if you weren't prepared to deal with that, you shouldn't have let it happen.


I enjoy a certain degree of chaos.

That's the problem, they don't seem to share that love. They seem perfectly happy with an unchaotic situation, it's you that's bored. If they're enjoying the game as is, what's the problem?

Piedmon_Sama
2017-03-30, 12:52 AM
Slow down their rivals' pace if you want them to slow their own, I'd say.

Yeah, that's what I'm planning. Basically I'm going to try next session and institute my own bastardized version of AD&D's leveling rules. At minimum it will take a week of "downtime" to level once you have the requisite XP. Of course this applies to PCs and NPCs across the board.

SO, I think this does two things -
1. Will let the players breath more easily since they know their rivals must rest and recuperate as well
2. Gives the players a reason to see the community as a place to rest, not just either a gold dispensary or a nuisance.

I really like your idea of having a party miss something. I mean, since it's kind of too late for the "first round" of dungeons in the Green Corridor, other groups are doing those right now, but maybe if the PCs hear about something their rivals couldn't/wouldn't move.

BTW what I do is I just give rival groups a flat 50% chance of success per level then I figure however many days it takes them so it's like, right now there's a group doing the Elf Dungeon, and they've succeeded for level 1 so in a few days' game time they'll emerge, head back to Stormcrown, trade in their loot, march back and then I'll roll to see if they survive level 2.

As for them becoming profiteers within the Shield Baronies, yeah I think my players would tell you that's basically what they want to do---or definitely the Cavalier's player would. Druidess and Bloodrager are more interested in dungeoncrawling while Paladin and Cavalier enjoy social maneuvering and dealing, so the party's kind of being pulled in two directions there. Hopefully I think I'm giving them room to do both, given the shortness of the distances involved it's not out of the question for them to start a business and still dungeoncrawl.


Can't they just leave the Barony and try their luck someplace else?

Absolutely. Well. Actually, there's a toll involved in crossing into the Shield Baronies that neighbor Stormcrown---it rises per traveler, per animal, per weapon, and by the estimated value of goods (including armor and clothing). It might come to a whole 50 gp or something. But yeah, they could---and in fact I've been jotting down ideas for other regions and other sandboxes so I would not be heartbroken if they did. I just don't think my players want to---they'd see it as admitting defeat.


Your original post notes "accept that my players are evil now, and adjust accordingly" as an option (perhaps even the first option), but doesn't indicate that they are evil.

Yeah, I try not to make alignment matter too much because these things always lead to arguments but looking at the last 26 games and the party's general behavior... they're evil. They've been pretty consistent in cheating, intimidating, and assaulting people who couldn't stop them basically whenever they could get away with it. They've told me over and over is there is no remorse for the event and they consider the people they bereaved to be their enemies for "disrespecting" them. v :/ v

GPS
2017-03-30, 08:43 AM
How have they been screwed, other than being told not to come back to one part of the map? I mean it's irritating but they're hardly done-for. In fact I'm basically asking if that should be it or if I should consider further fallout.

e: Fallout, btw, doesn't mean "punishment." I have never and will never "punish" my players.

ee: I know that some people really don't like cursed items in their campaigns. I did warn my players waaay back at the start that those would be a thing, and they OK'd it FWIW.

eee: I mean for real, look at the thread title. If I had my druthers I would like to remove this whole thing rather than deal with it. I'm not hyperventilating like "oh no my precious setting..... they hurt my imaginary friends... THEY MUST PAYYYYY"

BUT, the players did not accept my offer for a mulligan, so deal with it is what I intend to do. I also don't intend to remove any of the wacky invented stuff they haven't come across yet. I enjoy a certain degree of chaos. For ex., if they had drank the mead where they found it rather than bringing it back, they would have gained the charisma bonus without the attached curse. It's not like I invent things only to hurt or hinder the PCs; the reverse of a Monty Haul campaign is just as boring IMO.
Honestly, I want to agree with you, but I'm having a very hard time doing so. Why did you give them barrels! Three or four vials, sure. Barrels, very bad idea! Who wouldn't drink from barrels of good fey mead after a good adventure?! I wouldn't even blame the Slayer for selling it! If you want to make this fun for both you and the PC's again, may have to make some setting changes and "reveal" a new town on the outskirts or something.

Edit: I didn't read the last post before posting, didn't know you were already working on new territory. I think messing with leveling is fine if it's necessary, but it may make the players feel cheated, as some other group will be clearing out the dungeons in the area that they don't want to leave. A story solution may be better for that.

SecretlyaFish
2017-03-30, 04:15 PM
You essentially just gave the PC's a bunch of landmines disguised as a good time, as a player character its nice to actually role play and that means not assuming every single item they ever pick up has a bad effect that could kill them or others and negatively impact the game world in a way that results in less fun for them. But that's what you did, how many more custom items with serious negative effects do you have lying around in the tiny little world you've seemingly confined them to? A vial of the liquid made of exotic glass and maybe a eerie or luminescent glow, it might be taken more seriously. But kegs? Ordinary looking kegs with really no way of telling that they are bad.

You said if they had drunk them when they had found them they would have gotten +2 charisma... Who seriously busts open some kegs they found in the middle of a dungeon or encounter? Nobody I've ever met. They wait until they are safe and back at town to check out their loot. "I enjoy a certain degree of chaos. For ex., if they had drank the mead where they found it rather than bringing it back, they would have gained the charisma bonus without the attached curse. It's not like I invent things only to hurt or hinder the PCs". Who in their right freaking mind, busts open seemingly a keg of ale in the middle of a dungeon, right where they found it, and drinks it. Who. Nobody. Because its stupid. Completely nonsensical that you would expect them to do something so dumb, and then curse them for NOT being that dumb.

I mean, in my head, here's how I'd expect it to go. - Level 20 party consisting of a Fighter, a Cleric, a Rogue, and a Wizard get to the end of the dungeon and find the treasure. "Look guys", says the Fighter, "I found some kegs of ale I guess, lets all fking drink some literally right now instead of waiting until we are safe back at our base of operations!" "Good idea!" cries the Wizard and Cleric, both taking huge swigs of the mead, getting completely drunk off the potent ale. "Uhhh guys, this seems like a really bad stupid idea" says the rogue, but its too late as all the other 3 have taken large victory swigs of the liquid. Peering in through its scrying bowl, the Pit Fiend and its cadre of Cornugons chuckle to themselves. "Hahahahah" laughs the Pit Fiend, "Leaving potent ale in barrels at the end of the dungeon, the perfect trap, gets them everytime! Now that the mage and clerics spellcasting will be hampered from the potent ale, this will be easy! All we need to deal with is the pathetic rogue! Now the rest of you can draw straws and figure out who gets to tie the rope to his leg and fly across the ground at max speed while he bounces off every rock and bump!" One of the Cornugon seems confused and asks, "wait, why would they drink the ale, its obviously stupid, they aren't safe yet, half their spells are spent and getting drunk in the middle of a dungeon seems against all logical reason, why are they doing this?" The Pit Fiend looks at the Cornugon incredulously, as if he should know the answer. "Duh, don't you know barrels of ale found in dungeons are curse if you move them from where you found them! Then everyone in the next town you bring them to dies, and then the DM keeps you in a tiny area where everyone hates you, for 4 months! Everyone knows that."

It really seems this was designed to screw the players over, and that's what the effect was, irregardless of what your true intentions were. Might be fun for you, but I'm sure its not fun for the players. 4 months of being confined to a 24x24 mile space where everyone hates them and they gotta tiptoe around everything, all because you cursed them for taking the logical safe choice? Holy sh*t dude... Are you Sheogorath or something?

Koo Rehtorb
2017-03-30, 06:59 PM
You said if they had drunk them when they had found them they would have gotten +2 charisma... Who seriously busts open some kegs they found in the middle of a dungeon or encounter?

Me. I do. Whenever you find the booze is when the party time's happening.

Beneath
2017-03-30, 10:43 PM
The idea that unilaterally deciding to sell off something you were explicitly told was dangerous and that you shouldn't mess with it is fine, but saying to the NPCs that that's the one guy's idea instead of putting up a united front is so rude as to be beyond serious consideration is part of the problem here, I think.

The NPC told them not to mess with faerie stuff, or at least to get it identified first. "Don't mess with magical stuff you don't understand" is, like, basic faerie lore (as is "don't take anything from faeries and if you do don't consume it"). I guess I'm bucking the general trend here; they were reckless and I don't think you were unfair to them (and, like, to be quite clear: drinking the faerie mead is completely and utterly reckless no matter where they do it, but it's a gamble that could have paid off or not and you gave conditions for that and they ended up choosing poorly)

Like, at this point, yes, a group that considers people their enemy for being upset at being sold faerie mead that summons evil plant monsters to kill their family is an evil group.

If the problem is that the campaign is feeling rudderless, they're working as the baron's goons, right? On the eve of an evil awakening to threaten the barony? The baron can point them in the direction of things that need goons while the metaplot develops in the background; it should be fairly simple to make those two intersect even before monsters start pouring in.

Piedmon_Sama
2017-03-31, 03:39 PM
It's funny how every time a DM asks for some advice on a forum, the thread slowly but inevitably morphs into "YOU SOUND LIKE THE WORST STINKIEST DM EVER I WOULD NEVER PLAY AT YOUR TABLE." Like, okay duder, consider your RSVP rescinded. I'm not gonna waste time after this defending my game but I gotta point some things out b/c Alternative Facts:


A vial of the liquid made of exotic glass and maybe a eerie or luminescent glow, it might be taken more seriously. But kegs? Ordinary looking kegs with really no way of telling that they are bad.

The PCs detected magic on the barrels and learned the barrels were a weird combination of Druidic and Arcane magic. Shoulda been a tipoff this wasn't something from the magic item section in the CRB! But you're right if Faeries drank toxic green sludge, tragedy could have been averted.


You said if they had drunk them when they had found them they would have gotten +2 charisma...

Nope. +1d6 charisma, for 1d4 hours. I love chaos! and rolling!


Who seriously busts open some kegs they found in the middle of a dungeon or encounter?

They found the barrels in a cellar beneath an empty ruin. It wasn't exactly a run-and-gun situation.


It really seems this was designed to screw the players over

It was designed by leprechauns TBH.

Actually the mead was just one of three liquors the PCs found, each in four of the twelve barrels. When the Paladin punched a bung into a random barrel I rolled 1d3; there was a chance he could have gotten the whiskey that makes you dance until you die or the ale that makes you belch cones of fire for 1d4 hours.

Like the party had already had a hostile encounter with faeries previously. They knew the little blighters should be considered dangerous, and also that folktale stuff like sleeping with iron shears under your pillow keeping them away totally works. To be strictly fair, they didn't know to metaphysical certitude that faeries had brewed the drinks even though the shrine rector in town basically told them that was probably what it was, but they should have considered it pretty likely.


irregardless


irregardless


irregardless

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


4 months of being confined to a 24x24 mile space

AS I ALREADY SAID VIRGINIA, they can leave and do something else anytime. They don't want to, because I don't think they see themselves as unfairly beat upon as you do.


Holy sh*t dude... Are you Sheogorath or something?

Haha oh man I wish... I'm not even close to the Master yet...

*

OK, being constructive now -

We may have drifted from the topic a little so I will restate it:
1. PCs blew hole in setting. They have made enemies of the town I wanted to be their homebase/rest-stop. They are not even a tiny bit sorry.

1a. Grifflet was basically a community of a little more than 20 families with around 240 persons. Everybody knew everybody. Accusing Rector Hugo, the kindly wise old man and famed traveler who I intended to be a resource for the PCs, of being responsible for the tragedy wasn't just a lie, it was really stupid. No one who knew Hugo was going to believe that; it was like coming home to find a stranger in your house standing over your strangled dog and he points at your feeble old grandpa in the rocker and says "well, basically he let it happen so... kiiinda his fault."

1b. Funny detail. So up to this point the PCs had been traveling with several allied adventurers; one was a discrete party of four and another was a Thieves' Guild Associate Rogue/Cleric (the ultimate utility henchman really). Relations between the PCs and the "allied" party were strained because... well, the PCs are kinda ***** to NPCs, notice a pattern? But basically for no reason that I can fathom, once the crowd was getting menacing the Paladin basically said "hey now, wait a minute, wait a minute---we didn't act alone, all these guys" *points at other adventurers* "brought the mead back with us" [lie] "so they're just as responsible."

The mob being in an incredibly irrational mood at this point that was actually accepted and the whole extended gang of adventurers were booted out. For this and other reasons the party now has the Thieves' Guild and a wererat clan maneuvering for payback against them.

Further complicating things, one of the NPC adventurers they alienated is the son of Otgar's neighbor, Baron Abraham "Lightning" Van Hussel (Gold Dragon Sorc 9/Ftr 4 or smth like that). The Cavalier basically did his best to smooth things over with this angry noble, basically saying "look, I am going to spread the tale of your courage and martial prowess from one end of this Barony to the other, okay? super sorry about dummy over there." I am still unsure how I'm going to play that out down the road. I guess it depends on how good a job the Cavalier does?

2. Although it has been months since the fatal session IRL, it has been all of five days in the gameworld. The authorities (Baron Otgar Greatsword) is still receiving mixed reports and not even totally sure what happened yet. Otgar has told the PCs he is on their side and given them some simple work, but that was basically to keep them busy while he figures out what to do. Some kind of deputation from the town to the Baron must come make a case. Preferably while the PCs are not there because I already did one really long and involved trial scene (it was a dream the Paladin had.... it was my last-ditch effort to basically say "sure you wanna be evil, buddy?" and he was like "SCREW U ST. PETER" so welp.)

3. The tragedy has pushed the PCs into a closer relationship with the Baron. It is probably a matter of time until they betray/double-deal on him; he knows this because he's not a dummy and may tend to betray people himself. When/if Otgar learns that the PCs are targeted by two powerful clandestine organizations he's probably not gonna want to associate with them anymore. Who needs the headache?

3a. Actually this just happened. Last session the PCs are on their way back along the road from their mission to the Orcs when they are confronted by a kineticist(!) assassin (unbeknownst to them) contracted by the wererats. After a short fight the party triumphs and recovers a short note from "R" (this stands for "the Ratfather" yes that is who runs the wererats yes I am that cheesy). They presented the note and the assassin's head to Otgar but he recognized either; his reaction was basically "*scoff* looks like you got problems, my dudes."

Sidebar: another fun detail (long tangential story):
So I mentioned that the Slayer didn't just dole out this magic juice she didn't understand, she actively inserted it into the drink of one of a pair of hirelings the party had been using. So basically this was a pair of NPCs I created---actually one of a set of 14, initially---who could be hired out of Stormcrown village in another attempt to give my game an OLD SKEWL flavor. They were two Halfling sisters, a fighter and rogue, with the rogue being of evil alignment. Okay so the PCs have come back with I think their first serious haul of treasure in Stormcrown, they've got some money and they want to party at the tavern where the hireling talent pool hangs out, which is also where the pimps and pushers are (it's basically a place Otgar specifically built to entertain his armed and dangerous "guests" and keep them away from his villagers).

So the Cavalier has bags of "red sand" (thanks, DragonAge!) and he wants to buy some girls to party with him and I'm like okay, cool, not dwelling on it, then he says also I offer the Halflings to come up to my room and party and I'm like okay... NE rogue girl's a dummy she's not gonna say no to drugs; following some lewd behavior I naturally have the halflings try to rob the Cavalier. Clever guy that he is he knew halflings wouldn't resist an alleged easy mark (or more like he knows how his DM thinks) and springs up, cornering them and basically enlists them as his henchmen on pain of taking them to the Baron as thieves. So yeah, clever plan, but now you have two hirelings you're not paying who kind of want you to die?

To cut a long story short, at one point the rogue and the slayer played cards and naturally the halfling cheated---undetected by the Slayer IC, but was basically the reason the Slayer spiked the drink of the rogue's sister later ("I'm a sore loser, what?") So rogue's sister drank the cursed mead, died, and rogue vanished in the ensuing chaos; b/c she didn't see what happened and I thought it was funny she put all the blame on the Paladin and left him a note promising one day she'd "pay him a visit." So now the PCs have a determined halfling rogue who wants to send them to hell, too. I'm thinking maybe she trains at the Thieves' Guild for a revenge mission down the road?

So, provisional plans for next session (two days hence) -

1. Stealing this awesome idea (http://aeonsnaugauries.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-scornsmen.html) about a movement called the Scornsmen who are basically just super anti-adventurer for exactly the reason of exactly what happened in my game. They are going to show up in Stormcrown's Marketplace and start preaching against these murderhoboes contaminating communities with strange and accursed plunder and following Grifflet they will naturally find some reception. This will be an opportunity for the PCs to try and argue their case in the public square yet again, or maybe they'll just run the poor dudes down who knows.

2. This stroke of inspiration actually only hit me as I was recounting the whole episode with the Petalbeasts. The squire's daughter, duh---she was a part of the story I had almost forgotten. Basically, Grifflet has the freesteader families I mentioned, and then it has three estates which are occupied by tenants/renters---these manors are called Greenfield, Bluewater and Blackbush (easy on the memory, right?) The girl the Paladin seduced (while magically compelled himself, let's allow) was the daughter of Oliver the Squire of Greenfield. Basically the masters of these estates, including Oliver, can be thought of as knights who were too poor or just indifferent and never went through a dubbing ceremony, but they are still essentially the dudes who are supposed to direct the town's defense in an emergency: they know something about fighting and they have a couple rudeboys eating their bread, you figure.

So one of these fairly dangerous men is still processing the fact that his daughter was nearly brutally killed (certainly left with some scars mental and physical) because of one of these adventurers on top of everything else. So he's going to saddle up with his men and ride into Stormcrown and demand restitution, obviously.

Now we already did a courtroom session (even if it was just a dream sequence) so I kinda don't want the Squire to just sue the PCs, though he could. So maybe

1) he challenges Paladin to a duel? (Dude is an Aris 1/Warr 4 with age penalties, he ain't gonna win but sometimes you do what honor demands no matter the cost)

2) he just blusters and threatens the party, then rides off? (not impossible, the party just decides to bushwack him and his men in case, again, not a tough fight for them).

The thing here is that Otgar has a preexisting relationship with Squire Oliver, just like he has with the other estate-holders in his territory. Their farms produce fodder, cattle and fuel that he profits from the sale of so he wants to keep these dudes fairly happy. So he is certainly going to give the Squire some kind of restitution; if things just weigh out completely and totally against the PCs maybe he just says "sorry dudes you are more trouble than you're worth" and the party leaves Stormcrown and the campaign is about something else after that.

---Or something else. Maybe the Cavalier's player will finally smack the Paladin's player and say "stop getting us in deeper and deeper, dummy" and they cut some separate deal of remuneration with the Squire so he can keep his honor intact and he doesn't have to die fighting a lvl 4 party. Probably not this but I can hope.

But Piedmon, you said you don't want the PCs to mess more with Grifflet. You said you just wanted the unpleasantness of leveled characters bullying weak NPCs to stay behind. Now here you are having some ******* landlord get in the PCs' grill?

Yes I am a hypocrite. This will probably just invite an extension of the PCs' conflict with Grifflet's survivors. But I feel like I have to do something here--you don't just get 80 people killed and then continue operating in the same area (Stormcrown Village is literally 12 miles down the highway from Grifflet), you don't just ravage the honor of a feudal gentleman and it gets ignored--and the key is that because Stormcrown Barony is so small, all politics are local. Otgar's deal sorta rests on him keeping his small network of gentleman farmers happy. At some point the PCs need to realize their new patron is running a Barony (badly, but still).

Piedmon_Sama
2017-03-31, 03:54 PM
Writing this up, it sounds so much more awful than it is. TBH what's really going on in a lot of this is my campaign is the first where the PCs are largely staying in one area, interacting with the same NPCs on a continual basis, learning to manage "people" (who are all played by me, but still) and deal with hirelings, followers, allies and rivals. A lot of their early behavior is just them not being used to this kind of campaign and, importantly, they have definitely been getting better and better---like the thing with the orcs is they went on this diplomatic mission for Otgar, they visited the orcs, they talked to them, they learned something about "politics" in the wilderness, and they actually made friends(!)

They are starting to realize they are not in a CRPG where A) Fight B) Run C) Bluff/Intimidate are the only options you have regarding NPCs. I mean they are still playing horrible, horrible people but they are learning to do it better and that makes me v. happy. This is why I think yet more "roalplaynk" encounters (Scornsmen, Squire, a new merchant I'm adding to Stormcrown's market) might add something fun to the session this Sunday. We'll see.

e: Maybe if I talk more about the players and less about my fulminating brain I'll sound less crazy?

Paladin - The player is aware that his character is in his own words "a hypocrite" and "an *******." The character is based on (and named after) a certain prominent figure in contemporary politics that I will not name, but of whom the player has a very negative view, if that helps explain things. He is the party leader, treasurer and faceman, which suits the player's loquaciousness---he likes to dominate proceedings and argue, and enjoys political maneuvering in his own bludgeonlike style. His goal is to build a stronghold (perhaps found his own splinter religious movement?)

Cavalier - Probably more the actual leader than the Paladin is, or in his own words THE EMMINENCE GREASE. The character is basically a mafioso and dominating the underworld/vice trade is what the player wants to do. He is the most outwardly evil but somewhat hilariously usually the least violent player as he prefers insinuating himself and learning about the setting rather than kicking things over. One way or another the other players usually end up following his plans. He recently became an officer in a mercenary company and he wants to start his own business where he "contracts people to do the dungeon delving for [them]." He is a gendarme archetype so you basically can't beat him on his mount in open terrain.

Bloodrager - This is his first rodeo as far as roleplaying games goes so he is generally pretty passive, but he wants to do the classic "D&D" stuff like explore dungeons and fight monsters. His character is "a big dummy" who goes with the flow and stays sharp for opportunities to hit things. He likes interacting with NPCs peacefully tho. He had spotty attendance up until about the point of the disaster at Grifflet but has been a regular for the last six sessions.

Slayer - In his own words the character is "the bad kind of Chaotic Neutral," and "a bitch." Enjoys sarcasm and archery. Very irregular attendance throughout the campaign because work---at one point we joked that the Slayer was really the Paladin's Tyler Durden-esque alter ego. I think the player is using the crafting rules to make himself a p. tidy profit even without adventuring, may actually be the richest party member(??)

Druid - The Druid's player is very passive, but he wants to do more of a classic heroic campaign. Worryingly, the more evil the rest of the party is the more withdrawn he gets so that's actually held them back from a couple peasant genocides over the campaign so far. Has a quest in his backstory which the Cavalier's player keeps promising "we're gonna do right after [whatever]" so we'll see if they do?

Alchemist - You'll notice I mentioned him in the previous tense. This player was the #1 offender in making the party's interactions with the setting always hostile. He's not here to speak on his own behalf so take this with a pound of salt but it was like every interaction was some weird dominance game to him; where if he treated an NPC like a person or showed the faintest hint of politeness it was like he lost? He was all about "screwing" too, like [asked to pay a 1 gp road toll] "oh so this guy thinks he can screw us?" [an unarmed peasant gives them a stern talking to for camping on his property] "oh he thinks we're the bitches here?" Like not to sound like Grannie Bluestocking but yeesh, dude. We're still friends but he bowed out of the game and I commend him for sticking it out as long as he did because he and I have never had remotely similar playstyles or enjoyed D&D for the same reasons really. I felt like the odds of him enjoying my campaign were always pretty poor, which was part of the reason I was reluctant to helm a game a year ago.

GPS
2017-04-02, 01:28 AM
Writing this up, it sounds so much more awful than it is. TBH what's really going on in a lot of this is my campaign is the first where the PCs are largely staying in one area, interacting with the same NPCs on a continual basis, learning to manage "people" (who are all played by me, but still) and deal with hirelings, followers, allies and rivals. A lot of their early behavior is just them not being used to this kind of campaign and, importantly, they have definitely been getting better and better---like the thing with the orcs is they went on this diplomatic mission for Otgar, they visited the orcs, they talked to them, they learned something about "politics" in the wilderness, and they actually made friends(!)

They are starting to realize they are not in a CRPG where A) Fight B) Run C) Bluff/Intimidate are the only options you have regarding NPCs. I mean they are still playing horrible, horrible people but they are learning to do it better and that makes me v. happy. This is why I think yet more "roalplaynk" encounters (Scornsmen, Squire, a new merchant I'm adding to Stormcrown's market) might add something fun to the session this Sunday. We'll see.

e: Maybe if I talk more about the players and less about my fulminating brain I'll sound less crazy?

Paladin - The player is aware that his character is in his own words "a hypocrite" and "an *******." The character is based on (and named after) a certain prominent figure in contemporary politics that I will not name, but of whom the player has a very negative view, if that helps explain things. He is the party leader, treasurer and faceman, which suits the player's loquaciousness---he likes to dominate proceedings and argue, and enjoys political maneuvering in his own bludgeonlike style. His goal is to build a stronghold (perhaps found his own splinter religious movement?)

Cavalier - Probably more the actual leader than the Paladin is, or in his own words THE EMMINENCE GREASE. The character is basically a mafioso and dominating the underworld/vice trade is what the player wants to do. He is the most outwardly evil but somewhat hilariously usually the least violent player as he prefers insinuating himself and learning about the setting rather than kicking things over. One way or another the other players usually end up following his plans. He recently became an officer in a mercenary company and he wants to start his own business where he "contracts people to do the dungeon delving for [them]." He is a gendarme archetype so you basically can't beat him on his mount in open terrain.

Bloodrager - This is his first rodeo as far as roleplaying games goes so he is generally pretty passive, but he wants to do the classic "D&D" stuff like explore dungeons and fight monsters. His character is "a big dummy" who goes with the flow and stays sharp for opportunities to hit things. He likes interacting with NPCs peacefully tho. He had spotty attendance up until about the point of the disaster at Grifflet but has been a regular for the last six sessions.

Slayer - In his own words the character is "the bad kind of Chaotic Neutral," and "a bitch." Enjoys sarcasm and archery. Very irregular attendance throughout the campaign because work---at one point we joked that the Slayer was really the Paladin's Tyler Durden-esque alter ego. I think the player is using the crafting rules to make himself a p. tidy profit even without adventuring, may actually be the richest party member(??)

Druid - The Druid's player is very passive, but he wants to do more of a classic heroic campaign. Worryingly, the more evil the rest of the party is the more withdrawn he gets so that's actually held them back from a couple peasant genocides over the campaign so far. Has a quest in his backstory which the Cavalier's player keeps promising "we're gonna do right after [whatever]" so we'll see if they do?

Alchemist - You'll notice I mentioned him in the previous tense. This player was the #1 offender in making the party's interactions with the setting always hostile. He's not here to speak on his own behalf so take this with a pound of salt but it was like every interaction was some weird dominance game to him; where if he treated an NPC like a person or showed the faintest hint of politeness it was like he lost? He was all about "screwing" too, like [asked to pay a 1 gp road toll] "oh so this guy thinks he can screw us?" [an unarmed peasant gives them a stern talking to for camping on his property] "oh he thinks we're the bitches here?" Like not to sound like Grannie Bluestocking but yeesh, dude. We're still friends but he bowed out of the game and I commend him for sticking it out as long as he did because he and I have never had remotely similar playstyles or enjoyed D&D for the same reasons really. I felt like the odds of him enjoying my campaign were always pretty poor, which was part of the reason I was reluctant to helm a game a year ago.
While I'm not rescinding my earlier comments about the barrels (seriously, them being in a basement wouldn't make me want to drink them on the spot anymore, huge trap potential), I think this'll turn out fine for you. You sound like a pretty talented storyteller with an unfortunately murderhobo party, and I think you've got the skills to turn this around. Best of luck to you and your campaign, my man.

(To be fair though, who makes toll roads 1GP? Peasants have to use those too.)

Piedmon_Sama
2017-04-02, 02:28 AM
Thanks! Tolls are adjusted according to the traveler's wealth, viz. the estimated value of whatever they are carrying according to the serjeantry's famed "eyeball test."

also since I'm going ahead with my dumb ideas I thought I'd share some drawings in progress for next session.

Here's the Scornsmen as they appear preaching in Stormcrown village's marketplace -

https://i.imgur.com/ziUpdCs.jpg
I kinda went over the 8x11" area so I badly pasted on another strip of paper to finish it

and here's Oliver, Squire of Greenfield as he rides into the marketplace with his boys to confront the PCs

https://i.imgur.com/v3hhbVp.jpg

I didn't figure a good concrete way to introduce each of these encounters separately so I will probably just have them trigger at the same time for max CHAOS! So the PCs will enter the market and there's the Scornsmen all "lo, goodfolks of Stormcrown, see now the grim reprobates who would drown your lands in blood!" and then Oliver rides in all "hold there sirrah, your outrages against my house shall be answered for!" Who doesn't love a good three-way shouting match?

Bohandas
2017-04-02, 02:37 AM
It can, it's just.... not convenient. Basically for geographic reasons going south around the stricken hamlet is not feasable. Going north and around takes the party through the rugged Ogreskull Hills, which adds two days of travel and two days of potential wilderness encounters to their trip. That's two more days they have to supply for, two more days of mischance possibly befalling their mounts and beasts of burden, etc. Not fatal, but annoying. It's probable that I'm actually more annoyed by all of this than the players are---after all, they're not in any particular hurry to explore my painstakingly crafted dungeons if there's easier ways to make cash.
Here's a crude map of the setting I threw together so you guys can have some idea of what I'm talking about:
https://i.imgur.com/jhyDLAG.png

OK see Stormcrown Village is figuratively and literally the center of the Barony and where the Baron's court is located. It's also the only place big enough for the PCs to sell off loot. Grifflet is the hamlet that the PCs almost destroyed. It's on the very edge of the Barony and borders the Eastwylde, which is the wilderness; the nearest part of the Eastwylde is called the Green Corridor because it's between a mesa to the north and a series of cliffs breaking off to the south called The Gullies (so if you looked at the landscape with a bird's eye view the Green Corridor is kind of like a giant stair). There is more Eastwylde on the north side of the plateau but south of the gullies is just flatland country.

Following the disaster at Grifflet, Summerstream has taken the reasonable measure of shutting its doors to outsiders. Mossgather is high up in the hills and so infrequently visited that it doesn't even have an inn, but that's the way by which the PCs have made their last two excursions to the Wylde---taking the serpentine path through the hills, staying the night at Mossgather's meadery and continuing the next day down into the Corridor.

So you see (I hope) why Grifflet being a no-go zone is kind of a pain the keyster.
Does your setting have an underdark type region? Could they go under?

Piedmon_Sama
2017-04-02, 02:41 AM
They could. Like, basically the party has two different groups. On the one hand the Bloodrager and the Druid want to do traditional dungeoncrawly D&D-stuff, which is just a short hike in the wilderness away basically. Then the Paladin and the Cavalier are more into ingratiating themselves with Baron Otgar and spreading influence/gathering followers and generally dominating the local NPCs. So far P & C mostly get their way because B & D tend to be more passive in playstyle. But C & P keep promising "we're going to get on [that] real soon." I know Cavalier basically busts out in hives anytime he can't use his mount and lance to max advantage so he reeaally doesn't like adventuring in the hills/forests/dungeons but we'll see.

smuchmuch
2017-04-02, 02:38 PM
Honnestly at this point it feel like this is turning into a sandbox evil campaign (a fun one for most of the pcs except the druid) with 'taking over the barony' as a very possible endgame.

Shackel
2017-04-02, 05:47 PM
You could just accept that they're evil but coincidentally have them directed in ways that could save the barony: sure, they might still be terrible people and it's just for selfish reasons(or their Baron friend sending them there) that they even managed to save the place... but the populous doesn't need to know that.

EDIT: Very nice art, by the way!

Piedmon_Sama
2017-04-03, 11:41 AM
Thanks!

So I ran my game yesterday. Just to update the thread here's what happened -

-The first half of the game was basically just a long discussion with Otgar. I don't even remember what the players mainly bothered him about now, since for a change of pace I showed up to the game "jolly" instead of getting there by the second half around 6:00

-Everybody accepted my new leveling scheme without any complaints. Apparently this is how Slayer does it in "his" game which THANKS FOR NOT INVITING ME OR ANYTHING JEEZ

-I got to play my catfolk merchant of (ruh roh) HOMEBREW MAGIC JUNK here's a picture I finished of him right before the game btw -

https://i.imgur.com/gaVyB3g.jpg

-They never actually asked this guy's name and I had kinda been meaning to invent it on the spot so I dunno. I had this really cool line saved up like "I am but a humble merchant of dreams---some call me the travel agent to heaven...." but they didn't let me introduce the NPC right so when I inserted that line at the end it was sort of like lol too late; anyway this dude sells a bunch of unique magic items which, as I told my players "I came up with drunk at 3 AM" so the Slayer bought that split-tipped knife on the wagon counter there. The Druidess bought a one-use magic item which would "summon the faeries of the forest" ("your safety is in no way guaranteed.")

-The Scornsmen ended up not being a huge deal. It was Slayer, to my immense surprise, who stepped up and argued them down before the party rolled a bunch of intimidate checks and shooed them away quickly. They'll be back!

-When Squire Oliver showed up and called the Paladin out he did something I kind of thought he might do but hadn't really expected---he offered to marry the girl. Remembering your DM is tilted like three sheets in a hurricane at this point it seemed like a great idea so a hurried union was slapped together at Greenfield Manor. Not sure if the rest of the party was invited. Anyway the other half of this deal is that the Squire's son (the kid the Paladin basically threatened when he tried to protect his sister's honor) is now the Paladin's squire (in the professional sense) and to be "seasoned but kept safe"

-The Druid used her item to speak privately with "the fairies" (actually just one leprechaun showed up, at least that she saw) and actually made progress on that private quest her player's been wanting to get some focus on. It was also agreed since a higher-level druid that could help her train to level up wasn't in the area the Faeries would perform that task... which will be a perfect way to introduce one of those super-important NPCs of mine hiding out in the wilderness

-So pretty good session overall although I feel pretty gross this morning thank you very much

Angelmaker
2017-04-06, 03:59 AM
Murderhobos meet sandbox. Reminds me of my campaign.

2 days in a fully customized city, talking to dozens of npcs, getting at least six good leads on what's going on and completely ignoring them in favour of randomly selecting the first obvious chance to draw blood, exactly in the hidden mansion of the overlord which was planned as a level 20 encounter as long as his powerbase was intact in the city and could have been made severely weakened with the right actions.

Anyway, you campaigin does sound fun and I can't say based upon your descriptions that I'd call you neglient towards your playersd in your duties as a DM. I really like your homebrew stuff, the amount of work you out into the homebrewn stuff, etc. And I'd like you to keep it up telling us about it. :smallsmile::smallsmile: