Beheld
2017-03-28, 09:32 AM
There is some confusion/fuzz/varying interpretations about what immediate actions even do. I just want this to be a comprehensive statement of what all possible reasonable immediate action rulings are, so that people can see what they are getting with immediate actions.
Best to start with some rules, this won't be comprehensive, since technically all sorts of rules about Readied Actions, and Delays, and ongoing effect duration might be relevant in any specific moment, but the basics are:
Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world. A round presents an opportunity for each character involved in a combat situation to take an action.
Each round’s activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds, in order, from there. Each round of a combat uses the same initiative order. When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions. (For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.)
For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. A round can be a segment of game time starting with the first character to act and ending with the last, but it usually means a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.
Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time — even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.
Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.
So not a lot to go on, all you know is that you can take it at "any time" but what happens when you take it is basically not explained. So let's look at some common situations, we will use a Wizard with Abrupt Jaunt to demonstrate the point, since the movement aspect is really useful for describing what does and doesn't change with different rulings:
1) A Fighter charges the Wizard to make an attack.
2) A Fighter adjacent to the Wizard attacks, he has +6 BAB.
3) A Spiked Chain Wielder adjacent to the Wizard attacks, he has +6 BAB.
4) A character with a bow attacks. This character has Rapid Shot or +6 BAB.
5) A Wizard casts Disintegrate at the Wizard.
6) A Wizard casts Finger of Death, at the Wizard.
For each scenario, assume there is a commoner within close range who is just there.
Now, The ruling for Abrupt Jaunt is that you can teleport 10ft as an immediate action, and per the above rules, you can do this "at any time."
So let's look at situation 1:
In this case, the Wizard teleports 10ft away from the Fighter, and he now can't make an attack. Since he charged, he doesn't have a move action, standard action, or the ability to 5ft step. So the only thing he can do is attack a valid target.
But what if the commoner is adjacent to him next to the Wizard? Well now we ask: Was there a time when the Fighter had begun his attack, but not yet completed it? This really isn't defined in the rules, so we reach our first rule split:
1A: There is a time, t, where the fighter has not yet attacked, and has not yet rolled his attack and damage, and has not hit the Wizard. There is a time, (t prime) where the Fighter has rolled his attack roll and his damage roll and has either successfully hit the Wizard or not. And there is no time between t and t prime. Therefore, the Fighter can attack the Commoner.
1B: There is a time, t, where the fighter has begun his swing (made the attack roll) but before it hits (roll damage) where the Wizard can teleport away. If he does so, then the Fighter cannot apply his attack to the Commoner, and his attack is wasted.
Well that's interesting. Let's keep going.
Situation 2: The fighter attacks, and you teleport away. He has not yet declared whether he is full attacking.
2A: He has not used any action, so he can charge the Wizard.
2B: His first attack is wasted, but he can still take a move action to move somewhere, or he can use his iterative attack on the commoner.
Situation 3:
3A: Because of the reach of the spiked chain, he can 5ft step, and hit you with that same attack and then full attack the Wizard.
3B: His first attack is wasted, but he can still 5ft step and attack the Wizard with the iterative.
Situation 4:
4A: If you are still within line of sight, he retargets and shoots the Wizard.
4B: His arrow missed, and he can attack the Wizard with his second attack.
4C: "I agree with the argument in A in principle, but surely you have to admit that arrows have travel time, so you can teleport to dodge them as an immediate action." In this case, you have someone who is A on melee attacks, but has a time for dodge on ranged attacks.
Obviously, all of these are subject to the possibility that the Wizard can teleport 10ft to be behind a wall or something, thus preventing future attacks, in which case the Fighter can attack the Commoner
Situation 5:
5A: You get to retarget the Disintegrate on the Wizard, or if he goes behing a wall, on the Commoner. However, you still definitely cast Disintegrate.
5B: The disintegrate misses (and probably deletes a wall :smalltongue: ). The cast is wasted.
5C: "I think Disintegrate is like an arrow." You can dodge it as before.
5D: "Disintegrate and other rays are too fast, they are instantaneous like light, not like and arrow, so you can't dodge it."
Situation 6:
6A-D: the Wizard can't dodge it, he can teleport behind a wall to deprive line of effect, but that's it, and if he does that it can just be cast on the commoner.
For completeness sake, I will acknowledge positions E and F:
E: The can change what spell they cast if you teleport away.
F: You can dodge targeted spells "to the left" without breaking line of effect.
I think both of these are plainly false by the rules. There is definitely a time T where you have begun casting a spell, but have not completed, that's what all those concentration rules and AoO's are about.
As to dodging targeted spells.
Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.
I think the argument for an A like position with respect to targeted spells is pretty unassailable. As soon as you decide who it effects, it effects them.
So that is my comprehensive A-F listing of positions on immediate actions.
If anyone knows of any situations that aren't addressed by the above, so a Situation 7 or greater, please let me know, or alternatively, if you see a position not stated, that you think is defensible, position G if you will, please let me know.
Best to start with some rules, this won't be comprehensive, since technically all sorts of rules about Readied Actions, and Delays, and ongoing effect duration might be relevant in any specific moment, but the basics are:
Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world. A round presents an opportunity for each character involved in a combat situation to take an action.
Each round’s activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds, in order, from there. Each round of a combat uses the same initiative order. When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions. (For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.)
For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. A round can be a segment of game time starting with the first character to act and ending with the last, but it usually means a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.
Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time — even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.
Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.
So not a lot to go on, all you know is that you can take it at "any time" but what happens when you take it is basically not explained. So let's look at some common situations, we will use a Wizard with Abrupt Jaunt to demonstrate the point, since the movement aspect is really useful for describing what does and doesn't change with different rulings:
1) A Fighter charges the Wizard to make an attack.
2) A Fighter adjacent to the Wizard attacks, he has +6 BAB.
3) A Spiked Chain Wielder adjacent to the Wizard attacks, he has +6 BAB.
4) A character with a bow attacks. This character has Rapid Shot or +6 BAB.
5) A Wizard casts Disintegrate at the Wizard.
6) A Wizard casts Finger of Death, at the Wizard.
For each scenario, assume there is a commoner within close range who is just there.
Now, The ruling for Abrupt Jaunt is that you can teleport 10ft as an immediate action, and per the above rules, you can do this "at any time."
So let's look at situation 1:
In this case, the Wizard teleports 10ft away from the Fighter, and he now can't make an attack. Since he charged, he doesn't have a move action, standard action, or the ability to 5ft step. So the only thing he can do is attack a valid target.
But what if the commoner is adjacent to him next to the Wizard? Well now we ask: Was there a time when the Fighter had begun his attack, but not yet completed it? This really isn't defined in the rules, so we reach our first rule split:
1A: There is a time, t, where the fighter has not yet attacked, and has not yet rolled his attack and damage, and has not hit the Wizard. There is a time, (t prime) where the Fighter has rolled his attack roll and his damage roll and has either successfully hit the Wizard or not. And there is no time between t and t prime. Therefore, the Fighter can attack the Commoner.
1B: There is a time, t, where the fighter has begun his swing (made the attack roll) but before it hits (roll damage) where the Wizard can teleport away. If he does so, then the Fighter cannot apply his attack to the Commoner, and his attack is wasted.
Well that's interesting. Let's keep going.
Situation 2: The fighter attacks, and you teleport away. He has not yet declared whether he is full attacking.
2A: He has not used any action, so he can charge the Wizard.
2B: His first attack is wasted, but he can still take a move action to move somewhere, or he can use his iterative attack on the commoner.
Situation 3:
3A: Because of the reach of the spiked chain, he can 5ft step, and hit you with that same attack and then full attack the Wizard.
3B: His first attack is wasted, but he can still 5ft step and attack the Wizard with the iterative.
Situation 4:
4A: If you are still within line of sight, he retargets and shoots the Wizard.
4B: His arrow missed, and he can attack the Wizard with his second attack.
4C: "I agree with the argument in A in principle, but surely you have to admit that arrows have travel time, so you can teleport to dodge them as an immediate action." In this case, you have someone who is A on melee attacks, but has a time for dodge on ranged attacks.
Obviously, all of these are subject to the possibility that the Wizard can teleport 10ft to be behind a wall or something, thus preventing future attacks, in which case the Fighter can attack the Commoner
Situation 5:
5A: You get to retarget the Disintegrate on the Wizard, or if he goes behing a wall, on the Commoner. However, you still definitely cast Disintegrate.
5B: The disintegrate misses (and probably deletes a wall :smalltongue: ). The cast is wasted.
5C: "I think Disintegrate is like an arrow." You can dodge it as before.
5D: "Disintegrate and other rays are too fast, they are instantaneous like light, not like and arrow, so you can't dodge it."
Situation 6:
6A-D: the Wizard can't dodge it, he can teleport behind a wall to deprive line of effect, but that's it, and if he does that it can just be cast on the commoner.
For completeness sake, I will acknowledge positions E and F:
E: The can change what spell they cast if you teleport away.
F: You can dodge targeted spells "to the left" without breaking line of effect.
I think both of these are plainly false by the rules. There is definitely a time T where you have begun casting a spell, but have not completed, that's what all those concentration rules and AoO's are about.
As to dodging targeted spells.
Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.
I think the argument for an A like position with respect to targeted spells is pretty unassailable. As soon as you decide who it effects, it effects them.
So that is my comprehensive A-F listing of positions on immediate actions.
If anyone knows of any situations that aren't addressed by the above, so a Situation 7 or greater, please let me know, or alternatively, if you see a position not stated, that you think is defensible, position G if you will, please let me know.