Most pure and innocent d&d creature?

[KittenEV]

So, I'm making a big baddie boss that my players will face a couple levels from now. The terrible evil-doer wants to become a lich and since there is no written ritual for it, I was trying to come up with my own.

My question is: what is, in your opinion, the most good aligned/pure/innocent creature in d&d that would make anyone who sacrifices it a truly evil person?

Think like an iconic symbol of goodness type.

[Paeleus]

A unicorn. Though, there's the beginnings of a Nightmare in there.

[nickl_2000]

Most iconic innocent in fantasy is the unicorn. You could also use an Angel (you want to make them really bad, make it a young angel).

[Millstone85]

A unicorn. Though, there's the beginnings of a Nightmare in there.The MM only mentions "the torturous removal of a pegasus's wings", though I would make it work with cutting an unicorn's horn too.

Either way, making a boring corpse isn't a very lich thing to do, and the MM does list liches among typical Nightmare riders.

[Regitnui]

Baby flumphs from a unicorn's forest.

[NecroDancer]

Perhaps a kobold bard. He wants to gain the respect of an evil red dragon but he's just too naive and innocent, he's the worst evil minion.

He ties to be evil and cruel but his idea of evil is too give a childish insult (and then he apologizes later). His inspiration is pep talks and orange slices.

The trick is too Introduce him early into the campaign as a friendly NPC so the players can bond to him and when the BBEG strikes the players will be motivated beyond belief.

[Sigreid]

I'll go off template and say a nymph from so deep in the wilds that she is innocent enough to not even understand that good and evil are things. As a bonus it's a horrific crime against nature itself.

[tieren]

Restrain the unicorn then sacrifice babies by impaling them on the unicorn horn while it watched helpless to stop it.

[JNAProductions]

I like the kobold bard idea. Make it personal, you know?

[Asmotherion]

I know it's weird, but I was thinking about the Flumph...

Now, some kind of Divine Beast like the Pegasus would do the trick... maybe cutting it's wings to turn it into a Fiend too. Or like, drinking Unicorn Blood (I'm looking at you Voldy).

[Shining Wrath]

Celestials win by definition (unless fallen), but they've been done already. AFB but I think Ki-rin and Coatl are also Celestials.

Any creature with INT=1 and unaligned alignment doesn't understand evil and good and so is innocent from that viewpoint.

Of the non-Celestials, gold dragons come to mind as pretty much "good guys". Also, maybe a Treant.

For a twist, an Incubus / Succubus that fell in love with a mortal and "rose" to become a non-fiend, struggling to cast off their old ways and live a life of atonement and good deeds (while being totally HAWT) would likely provoke sympathy from your players.

[NecroDancer]

Maybe a soul of a loved one?

[Corsair14]

Fairy dragon or the chaste elf maiden that is allowed to ride the unicorn.

[Naanomi]

Ki-rin; metallic Dragon eggs... outside of published stuff... hollyphant?

[AuraTwilight]

The denizens of wherever the opposite of Ravenloft is (The Demiplane of Awe, named by not described in an old Dragon magazine somewhere).

[BiPolar]

Restrain the unicorn then sacrifice babies by impaling them on the unicorn horn while it watched helpless to stop it.

This is disturbing. You are disturbing.




I love it.

[DireSickFish]

Might be cliche, but a regular baby fits the bill. Might be hard to get the characters invested.

I'd go with a loved one, and introduce the loved one as a helpful NPC earlier int he adventure. Or a cool NPC, whatever you have to do to get your players to like them. That differs by group. Maybe take someone they already like and tie them to the Lich with some backstory.

Or just grab a handful of babies.

[Paeleus]

The MM only mentions "the torturous removal of a pegasus's wings", though I would make it work with cutting an unicorn's horn too.

Either way, making a boring corpse isn't a very lich thing to do, and the MM does list liches among typical Nightmare riders.

Right you are! Thanks for the catch.

What is the exact purpose of sacrificing [insert innocent/good being here]? To gain immense evil power?

How about sacrificing an entire town/city in one big ritual? A little Fullmetal, but still very evil.

[M Placeholder]

A unicorn.

No, just no. In the 2e FR splatbook The Moonsea, there is a part in the players guide in which the bard tells a story in which he met a nice female elf, they chatted, one thing led to another and in the morning, the eleven ladies unicorn ran off.

No creature that commits an act of slut-shaming like that can be called pure and innocent.

I second the flumph.

[Naanomi]

Newborn aasimar still in their caul

Of course it can be hard to get those, so the ritualist may need to start an breeding program of some kind in preparation

http://smbc-comics.com/comic/unicorns

[Honest Tiefling]

I like the kobold bard idea. Make it personal, you know?

This I agree with. Have the BBEG take a child who really wanted to play heroes and dragons, and insisted on mimicking one of the heroes. The kindly old woman who didn't have much of a reward for the party, but tried to give them some fresh bread because that was all she had to say thank you with. The retired adventurer tavern-owner who always gave them a free round in return for stories that reminded him of this glory days.


No, just no. In the 2e FR splatbook The Moonsea, there is a part in the players guide in which the bard tells a story in which he met a nice female elf, they chatted, one thing led to another and in the morning, the eleven ladies unicorn ran off.

No creature that commits an act of slut-shaming like that can be called pure and innocent.

Ah, good to know that I am not the only one who finds creatures who insist upon being rid upon by virgins mildly creepy as well. Maybe you slut-shaming fancy-pants horses NEED to die.

Uh...What exactly do Unicorns do again? It has occurred to me that most people they encounter are going to not have a lot of ways to find entertainment, so...Do they just heal children when adults are not nearby, okay, I've made it worse. Screw Unicorns.

[Regitnui]

Uh...What exactly do Unicorns do again? It has occurred to me that most people they encounter are going to not have a lot of ways to find entertainment, so...Do they just heal children when adults are not nearby, okay, I've made it worse. Screw Unicorns.

They were originally a metaphor for a man's *cough* lower horn. What else comes to comely maidens and lays its head in their lap, and is thereby tamed?

I like the idea of a cute, innocent flumph. Or a wild child raised by flumphs in a unicorn's forest who thinks the adventurers are awesome heroes and wants to play heroes and heroes all day because they don't know what monsters are.

[Idkwhatmyscreen]

Flumph's are almost too pure and innocent, like you would cause an overflow in the ritual or whatever.

[Millstone85]

Ah, good to know that I am not the only one who finds creatures who insist upon being rid upon by virgins mildly creepy as well. Maybe you slut-shaming fancy-pants horses NEED to die.

Uh...What exactly do Unicorns do again? It has occurred to me that most people they encounter are going to not have a lot of ways to find entertainment, so...Do they just heal children when adults are not nearby, okay, I've made it worse. Screw Unicorns.These days, unicorns are sent by deities, always good and usually of nature and the fey, to protect certain places, artifacts or creatures. They are typically found guarding an enchanted forest or serving as a paladin's mount. Nothing is said about virginity.

[Sigreid]

Right you are! Thanks for the catch.

What is the exact purpose of sacrificing [insert innocent/good being here]? To gain immense evil power?

How about sacrificing an entire town/city in one big ritual? A little Fullmetal, but still very evil.

I actually think the sacrifice is powerless. Orcus just thinks it's funny. Besides, what else are you going to do for entertainment on a slow Tuesday?

[Celestia]

Introduce a kind, friendly NPC who always tries her best to help the players. Over the course of several sessions, she eventually falls in love with one of the PCs, and they get married. She then gets pregnant and has a kid. Have the BBEG sacrifice that baby, preferably by mind controlling the NPC lady into doing it while the PCs watch.

[Maxilian]

Restrain the unicorn then sacrifice babies by impaling them on the unicorn horn while it watched helpless to stop it.

Kobolds are at least evil, so go with baby elf

[JellyPooga]

The party Paladin? Or any Good party member with aspirations of innocence/purity/sanctity. Bonus points if the character just completed some kind of (genuine) "quest of purity" that the would-be Lich sent him/her on...

[Arenabait]

How about sacrificing an entire town/city in one big ritual? A little Fullmetal, but still very evil.

I like this. Just... poof. A city gone, and a ritual circle around a crater where the city once was. Very evil IMO, and it wold certainly be great. After all, the power from one soul wouldn't be as great as that of one thousand, would it?

[Shining Wrath]

I like this. Just... poof. A city gone, and a ritual circle around a crater where the city once was. Very evil IMO, and it wold certainly be great. After all, the power from one soul wouldn't be as great as that of one thousand, would it?

"Killing one man is a murder. Killing a million is a statistic". - Stalin, I think.

By which I mean, killing one person with slow delight while savoring their pleas can be a lot more evil than casting Meteor Swarm on a village square.

[RazDelacroix]

Step One: Become A Benevolent King.

Step Two: As a Benevolent King, encourage progressive reforms across the land.

Step Three: As a Benevolent King, weed out the corrupt nobles and low-villains that object to the empowering of the common masses. Preferably by encouraging adventurers to help out as government-contracted-militia-errant-knights.

Step Four: As a Benevolent King, use those adventurers to help spread understanding and good will across the land. Even to goblins. Especially to kobolds.

Step Five: As a Benevolent King, pursue a public works program to build a series of monolithic towers in an arcane pattern across the land that will help keep the kingdom safe from foreign evils while inviting fair trade between nations.

Step Six: As a Malevolent Tyrant; on the day of your pure child-heir's birth, present the newborn to the adoring masses. As the innocent people cheer for long life to the ruling family, rip the child apart in your bare hands. Have this be the action that activates the TRUE purpose of those Arcane Towers across the land. The land shall heave and sunder as vile forces tear apart the people all over the kingdom. Their wails a chorus of despair as their souls are funneled to each tower before being used as fuel for your apotheosis.

In the end, there will only be two entities in the kingdom. The one alive, a goodly and innocent queen whom had once looked upon her husband with such adoration now turned to horror. The one undead... A new lich.

Step Seven: Profit.

[mephnick]

Step Six: As a Malevolent Tyrant; on the day of your pure child-heir's birth, present the newborn to the adoring masses. As the innocent people cheer for long life to the ruling family, rip the child apart in your bare hands. Have this be the action that activates the TRUE purpose of those Arcane Towers across the land. The land shall heave and sunder as vile forces tear apart the people all over the kingdom. Their wails a chorus of despair as their souls are funneled to each tower before being used as fuel for your apotheosis.

That read like something out of Malazan: Book of the Fallen. Good stuff.

[RazDelacroix]

That read like something out of Malazan: Book of the Fallen. Good stuff.

Thanks! Well, looks like I have to go to the library and find out what this Malazan thing is.

[Foxydono]

A solar or an archangel. Don't think they have made their way into 5e though, which is a bit odd.

This fits your description as well :
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Celestial_paragon

[Vae]

How to become a Lich in 5 easy steps:

1: Save an orphan child from dying.(Whether or not your the cause of said orphan's lack of family is entirely up to you.)

2: Raise the child as your own, becoming the center of their world and the reason for their existence. (No magical influence aloud.)

3: Convince the child that you're dying and that the only way you could survive if they preform a magical ritual in which they wont survive.(Again no magical influence aloud.)

4: Have the child willingly kill themselves in a ritualistic manner, their soul becoming the power source for the phylactery that you will bind your soul to in order to become a Lich.

5: Unleash your rein of terror and death upon the the land as an Immortal Incarnation of Death as you know you where always meant to be.

[Vogonjeltz]

So, I'm making a big baddie boss that my players will face a couple levels from now. The terrible evil-doer wants to become a lich and since there is no written ritual for it, I was trying to come up with my own.

The ritual is described in the MM on page 203.

First, create a phylactery inscribed in silver with the arcane sigils of naming, binding, immortality, and dark magic.
Second, drink a potion of transformation - poison mixed with the blood of a sentient creature whose soul is sacrificed to the phylactery (The first of many, no doubt).

Voila, you now have a Lich. Of course, as mentioned, the process is a secret in game and pretty much all those who know the secret demand fealty and service in return for the knowledge.

That being said, no actual ability to enforce that demand is made, so I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number of Liches to be just broke their word immediately after succeeding.


My question is: what is, in your opinion, the most good aligned/pure/innocent creature in d&d that would make anyone who sacrifices it a truly evil person?

Think like an iconic symbol of goodness type.

I'll defer to D&D here, from Volo's:

"Ki-rins are the embodiment of good" (Volo's 163)

In the MM Angels are servants of good deities, but they lack self-awareness to realize they can make mistakes; Couatls are the protectors created by good-aligned deities who no longer exist, and Unicorns are regional protectors of good-aligned deities.

Flumphs are nice enough, but that basically puts them in the same league as Pixies, Dragons, Faerie Dragons, and Pseudodragons...or your average other good-aligned creature.

Any of them would do for the ritual...but then so would any evil sentient.

[Naanomi]

I would guess that even if the ritual is that simple; that written copies might have all kinds of extra 'steps' that are unnecessary but added for a variety of reasons. Sure, you may not to eat your first born but... maybe you do? Do you risk it or just go along with it, and when the time comes you are teaching someone else then you teach it too... down the line it goes

[Honest Tiefling]

I would guess that even if the ritual is that simple; that written copies might have all kinds of extra 'steps' that are unnecessary but added for a variety of reasons. Sure, you may not to eat your first born but... maybe you do? Do you risk it or just go along with it, and when the time comes you are teaching someone else then you teach it too... down the line it goes

I feel like the people who become liches would probably add on extra steps just to be annoying to would-be replacements. Or add in fatal steps, just to avoid competition.

[Sigreid]

Oh, how about completely destroy and consume the essence of an immortal Guaridan Naga!?!

[GPS]

In the MM Angels are servants of good deities, but they lack self-awareness to realize they can make mistakes; Couatls are the protectors created by good-aligned deities who no longer exist, and Unicorns are regional protectors of good-aligned deities.

Flumphs are nice enough, but that basically puts them in the same league as Pixies, Dragons, Faerie Dragons, and Pseudodragons...or your average other good-aligned creature.

Any of them would do for the ritual...but then so would any evil sentient.

I agree with the point of celestials, but you my good man have leveled a grave insult against the flumphs! Flumphs are special simply because they are flumphs!

[McNinja]

Restrain the unicorn then sacrifice babies by impaling them on the unicorn horn while it watched helpless to stop it.Someone's been listening to too much infant annihilator.

Speaking of that band, their newest album actually depicts the heinous acts of an evil lich. You want some evil acts? Read the lyrics from their The Elysian Grandeval Galèriarch album.

[KittenEV]

The ritual is described in the MM on page 203.

First, create a phylactery inscribed in silver with the arcane sigils of naming, binding, immortality, and dark magic.
Second, drink a potion of transformation - poison mixed with the blood of a sentient creature whose soul is sacrificed to the phylactery (The first of many, no doubt).

Voila, you now have a Lich. Of course, as mentioned, the process is a secret in game and pretty much all those who know the secret demand fealty and service in return for the knowledge.

That being said, no actual ability to enforce that demand is made, so I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number of Liches to be just broke their word immediately after succeeding.

Yeah, I know about that in the monster manuel. I was going for the whole "so unspeakably evil it can not be written down thing" So I was trying to create one that suited that sort of description.

[McNinja]

Yeah, I know about that in the monster manuel. I was going for the whole "so unspeakably evil it can not be written down thing" So I was trying to create one that suited that sort of description.Unfortunately, those sorts of limitations only exist subjectively. Vecna authored the Book of Vile Darkness - do you think some rando commoner would be able to write even half of Venca's evil deeds or spells? No.

What you might have trouble writing (due to the extreme evil) I might have no problem writing down.

However, we can all come up with "the most evil, dark, and vile act you can think of." We just won't write it here on this forum, because we don't want temporary bans. That's why I said look at the lyrics for Infant Annihilator's latest album. You'll find everything you need.

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

I want to say seven adorable pet canaries that belong to a kindly old man, but that might actually lead to a slightly different scenario... :smallwink:

[Arkhios]

To the OP: An unborn child? :smallbiggrin:

[M Placeholder]

"Killing one man is a murder. Killing a million is a statistic". - Stalin, I think.

By which I mean, killing one person with slow delight while savoring their pleas can be a lot more evil than casting Meteor Swarm on a village square.

Its unclear if Joe ever actually said "One death is a tragedy. A million is a statistic". But whats more evil than both is gaslighting the village, slowly turning the people against each other, engineering the loss of productivity in the farmlands that nourish the village, and watching starving peasants killing each other one by one amid a rising tide of rancour.

[VoxRationis]

A lantern archon? It's a helpful little ball of light. It doesn't even have a body, so it isn't sullied by carnal matters, and it's too weak to be prideful.

[Toofey]

So... My next Lich baddie is 'sacrificing' a unicorn and riding the nightmare that results from the process as his mount

[Dr.Samurai]

Aren't unicorns fierce champions of good in D&D? I don't know that I'd consider that pure and innocent.

[Temperjoke]

I mean, any wizard can become a lich. The extra steps and particular sacrifices just expand the potency of your magic, and gets you VIP access to Orcus's night club.

You know, it might not be just one sacrifice of a single pure/innocent creature. What if there were several, each representing a different thing?

[Vogonjeltz]

I want to say seven adorable pet canaries that belong to a kindly old man, but that might actually lead to a slightly different scenario...

Hilariously, that disguise puts Bahamut at serious risk of being instantly (and unstoppably) killed by Power Word Kill.

[McNinja]

Hilariously, that disguise puts Bahamut at serious risk of being instantly (and unstoppably) killed by Power Word Kill. How? He's a greater diety. It doesn't matter what he looks like, he has more hit points than a tarrasque.

[Naanomi]

How? He's a greater diety. It doesn't matter what he looks like, he has more hit points than a tarrasque.
Plus even if it somehow worked, you'd just be left with seven angry birds and a greater deity back in his Domain with nothing keeping him from popping back over for a talk about your cute trick

[McNinja]

Plus even if it somehow worked, you'd just be left with seven angry ancient gold dragons and a greater deity back in his Domain with nothing keeping him from popping back over for a talk about your cute trickfixed that for you.

[Unoriginal]

In the Book of Vile Darkness, there was a magic item created by raping someone to death with an unicorn's horn


I now realize they never said the unicorn had to be dead for it.

[Naanomi]

fixed that for you.
I know what they really are, I just wanted to make an angry birds joke :smallbiggrin:

[Vogonjeltz]

How? He's a greater diety. It doesn't matter what he looks like, he has more hit points than a tarrasque.

Isn't it a polymorph spell? Those give you the creature hp in place of whatever yours is.

[FabulousFizban]

flumph obvs

[pwykersotz]

No, just no. In the 2e FR splatbook The Moonsea, there is a part in the players guide in which the bard tells a story in which he met a nice female elf, they chatted, one thing led to another and in the morning, the eleven lady's unicorn ran off.

No creature that commits an act of slut-shaming like that can be called pure and innocent.

I second the flumph.

Sure it can be. Those are literally synonyms for chastity. And extrapolating to whether it's good or not, it isn't doing anything non-good, it's just walking away. Now if it killed the elf maiden or cursed her, sure, I can see why it would be disqualified as pure, innocent, or good. But it doesn't do that, and I can't see anything else that would disqualify it offhand. It might make the unicorn a bad friend, but that's about it.

So if you're going for a classic sacrifice, a unicorn is a good choice. Sigreid's idea is also good. Twisting the nature of a being is generally pretty dark. And of course making the sacrifice a child lets you add your proficiency bonus to the ritual check. :smalltongue:

But in the interest of uniqueness, I too vote for the flumph. Baby flumphs. Which I shall call flumphuls.

[Stealth Marmot]

Is there a Monster Manual entry for corgis?

[Sigreid]

So this suggestion is just unspeakable evil being spoke. Orcus should get enough of a kick out of it to help you out with the lich thing.

Capture a peasant farmer and his family, including his cute little toddler daughter. Give the farmer a choice. He can brutally murder his wife in front of his daughter before raping and beating his daughter, or he can be forced to watch as you rape and murder both before maiming him and keeping him alive, and immortal prisoner trapped in a cell with the ghosts of his wife and daughter bound to play their last moments over and over again in front of him.

[pwykersotz]

So this suggestion is just unspeakable evil being spoke. Orcus should get enough of a kick out of it to help you out with the lich thing.

Capture a peasant farmer and his family, including his cute little toddler daughter. Give the farmer a choice. He can brutally murder his wife in front of his daughter before raping and beating his daughter, or he can be forced to watch as you rape and murder both before maiming him and keeping him alive, and immortal prisoner trapped in a cell with the ghosts of his wife and daughter bound to play their last moments over and over again in front of him.

Whelp, that's it. Done with the thread. Congrats Sigreid, that was too horrifying for words.

[RickAllison]

Whelp, that's it. Done with the thread. Congrats Sigreid, that was too horrifying for words.

Hooray, he wins! I just make a statue for Sigreid so he can always be reminded of his accomplishment!

[Shining Wrath]

The ritual is described in the MM on page 203.

First, create a phylactery inscribed in silver with the arcane sigils of naming, binding, immortality, and dark magic.
Second, drink a potion of transformation - poison mixed with the blood of a sentient creature whose soul is sacrificed to the phylactery (The first of many, no doubt).

Voila, you now have a Lich. Of course, as mentioned, the process is a secret in game and pretty much all those who know the secret demand fealty and service in return for the knowledge.

That being said, no actual ability to enforce that demand is made, so I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number of Liches to be just broke their word immediately after succeeding.



I'll defer to D&D here, from Volo's:

"Ki-rins are the embodiment of good" (Volo's 163)

In the MM Angels are servants of good deities, but they lack self-awareness to realize they can make mistakes; Couatls are the protectors created by good-aligned deities who no longer exist, and Unicorns are regional protectors of good-aligned deities.

Flumphs are nice enough, but that basically puts them in the same league as Pixies, Dragons, Faerie Dragons, and Pseudodragons...or your average other good-aligned creature.

Any of them would do for the ritual...but then so would any evil sentient.

The description on MM 203 starts out with "No wizard takes up the path to lichdom on a whim, and the process of becoming a lich is a well-guarded secret". What you describe about the phylactery and the potion is the part that is known. There are other parts which are secret, and you have to make a deal with someone like Orcus to learn them.

Pro tip: Orcus does not bargain with mortals on equal terms. And even a 20th level wizard is a mortal in the eyes of a Demon Prince.

My personal opinion is that each lich undergoes a different ritual, but with the same end result: that which is good within the wizard's soul must be expunged so that the lich may be born. My advice to OP would be to have the BBEG have a redeeming feature - perhaps he is kind to dogs - and tie the ritual sacrifice to that - he must kick 1,000 puppies to death.

[Finback]

This is disturbing. You are disturbing. I love it.

If people want a really dark, weird flavour of unicorn, Charles Stross wrote a story about them for his Laundry universe.

"Equoid" (http://www.tor.com/2013/09/24/equoid/)

[JumboWheat01]

Deekin is the most pure and innocent D&D creature, and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise.

I personally don't trust unicorns. There's bound to be an evil one hiding amongst the good ones, looking for the perfect opportunity to stab you with its horn.

[furby076]

Restrain the unicorn then sacrifice babies by impaling them on the unicorn horn while it watched helpless to stop it.

This, this is pure evil.

[Arkhios]

How? He's a greater diety. It doesn't matter what he looks like, he has more hit points than a tarrasque.

Actually... Bahamut is a lesser deity. And so is Tiamat.

[Naanomi]

Actually... Bahamut is a lesser deity. And so is Tiamat.
In traditional planescape Lore, they are both Greater Deities in the planar sense, but only lesser Deities in Faerun (things can work that way)

[Arkhios]

In traditional planescape Lore, they are both Greater Deities in the planar sense, but only lesser Deities in Faerun (things can work that way)

Huh. I didn't know that. Even so, difference between greater and lesser deities is mostly semantics anyway. It's the word 'deity' that should matter more, right? :smallwink:

[JackPhoenix]

Huh. I didn't know that. Even so, difference between greater and lesser deities is mostly semantics anyway. It's the word 'deity' that should matter more, right? :smallwink:

Not really once you kick Tiamat's cloaca in RoT :smallcool:

[Shining Wrath]

Of course, the real problem posed by the OP is "What creature, when sacrificed, would most offend and upset the party members?".

People being what they are, the answer is probably "their children / their parents / their siblings".

[Sigreid]

Is it too late to suggest clubbing baby harp seals?

[Scripten]

There's a lot of talk about making horrific scenes for the players to watch or which creature to pick for it, so I don't really feel like I can contribute to that discussion with anything that hasn't been said.

However, what I have only seen a few references to would be giving your players investment. I mean, sure, most good D&D players will bite any halfway-decent evil Lich doing evil things hook, but giving them personal investment will create a much greater sense of immersion than any scale of unspeakable acts. I second the use of a cute, friendly, and mechanically helpful NPC being developed over the course of a few sessions. Not a DMPC or anything of that sort, but a character that steps in and gives the party an advantage in combat as well as happy, heart-warming roleplay opportunities. Bonus points if the NPc doesn't do direct damage but instead buffs each of the party members in unique and equitable ways. As long as you avoid a Wesley Crusher, you should be alright.

Once you've done that, unceremoniously rip the party's communal pet away from them, preferably in the most brutal fashion you can think of. Generally, just killing the NPC will be enough, but if you steal them away right from under the party's nose and spend a little time breaking the cutie, you can end up with a tragic villain alongside a BBEG who's personally offended the characters AND the players. Bonus points if the ex-pet blames the party for all of the pain and torment they've gone through.

[JobsforFun]

If you don't wanna go with something like a Unicorn, Pegasus, Angle or something like that you gotta go with flumphs

[Garresh]

A new player who has not played D&D before.

Oh those sweet summer children.

[McNinja]

Not really once you kick Tiamat's cloaca in RoT :smallcool: Avatar of Tiamat. Not the actual deity.

[JackPhoenix]

Avatar of Tiamat. Not the actual deity.

Nope, adventure makes it pretty clear that it's the real thing. Being just an avatar is just the headcanon of some people who don't like that an actual goddess could be defeated by a bunch of level 15 mortals. (I agree with that, too)

[RickAllison]

Nope, adventure makes it pretty clear that it's the real thing. Being just an avatar is just the headcanon of some people who don't like that an actual goddess could be defeated by a bunch of level 15 mortals. (I agree with that, too)

But weakened (generally). I would not hesitate to say that the "full power" in RoT is not the power level you would expect if you were fighting her when she wasn't forcing herself through a divine barrier. Giver her some time to collect herself once she has recovered from the portal and you might have a very different beast on your hands. The CR 30 beast (already difficult enough...) is just the point where she is still beatable without Deus ex Machina.

[Phoenix042]

Step Six: As a Malevolent Tyrant; on the day of your pure child-heir's birth, present the newborn to the adoring masses. As the innocent people cheer for long life to the ruling family, rip the child apart in your bare hands. Have this be the action that activates the TRUE purpose of those Arcane Towers across the land. The land shall heave and sunder as vile forces tear apart the people all over the kingdom. Their wails a chorus of despair as their souls are funneled to each tower before being used as fuel for your apotheosis.
Step Seven: Profit.

Solid freaking gold.

I now want to do this as a campaign. Except the PCs survive somehow and now they can try to stop the lich if they want.

[Arenabait]

Step One: Become A Benevolent King.

Step Two: As a Benevolent King, encourage progressive reforms across the land.

Step Three: As a Benevolent King, weed out the corrupt nobles and low-villains that object to the empowering of the common masses. Preferably by encouraging adventurers to help out as government-contracted-militia-errant-knights.

Step Four: As a Benevolent King, use those adventurers to help spread understanding and good will across the land. Even to goblins. Especially to kobolds.

Step Five: As a Benevolent King, pursue a public works program to build a series of monolithic towers in an arcane pattern across the land that will help keep the kingdom safe from foreign evils while inviting fair trade between nations.

Step Six: As a Malevolent Tyrant; on the day of your pure child-heir's birth, present the newborn to the adoring masses. As the innocent people cheer for long life to the ruling family, rip the child apart in your bare hands. Have this be the action that activates the TRUE purpose of those Arcane Towers across the land. The land shall heave and sunder as vile forces tear apart the people all over the kingdom. Their wails a chorus of despair as their souls are funneled to each tower before being used as fuel for your apotheosis.

In the end, there will only be two entities in the kingdom. The one alive, a goodly and innocent queen whom had once looked upon her husband with such adoration now turned to horror. The one undead... A new lich.

Step Seven: Profit.

So... Basically 100% Fullmetal Alchemist?... Do it. Super cool, really awesome. Make sure to have hordes upon hordes of flesh golems at the end of the campaign. Also base all of the minibosses after the seven deadly sins.

[Vogonjeltz]

Huh. I didn't know that. Even so, difference between greater and lesser deities is mostly semantics anyway. It's the word 'deity' that should matter more, right?

No, the HP would be more important. But it doesn't matter, I checked and dragons Change shape keeps their HP, so they specifically would not be vulnerable to that particular ploy (using that ability anyway).


The description on MM 203 starts out with "No wizard takes up the path to lichdom on a whim, and the process of becoming a lich is a well-guarded secret". What you describe about the phylactery and the potion is the part that is known. There are other parts which are secret, and you have to make a deal with someone like Orcus to learn them.

Recheck it, that section is all about the secret, but it's there so a DM can know what it is. In game terms, that's all hidden knowledge.

[DragonSorcererX]

Most pure and innocent d&d creature?

A pure, innocent and kind protector aasimar favored soul princess = Purity Level 5/5.
Pure = +1 Purity.
Innocent = +1 Purity.
Kind = +1 Purity.
Protector Aasimar = +1 Purity.
Favored Soul = +1 Purity.

Why princess? Because dragons need someone to kidnap...

[Anderlith]

I'm gonna suggest a puppy. Everybody loves a puppy.

[Arkhios]

No, the HP would be more important. But it doesn't matter, I checked and dragons Change shape keeps their HP, so they specifically would not be vulnerable to that particular ploy (using that ability anyway).

Mechanically speaking, yes. HP matters more than whether she's a deity or not, but I wasn't really speaking mechanics-wise. Purely story-telling in mind. A deity is a deity, and should you take on one ill-prepared, you're most likely f**ked :smalltongue:

[M Placeholder]

Most pure and innocent d&d creature?

A pure, innocent and kind protector aasimar favored soul princess = Purity Level 5/5.
Pure = +1 Purity.
Innocent = +1 Purity.
Kind = +1 Purity.
Protector Aasimar = +1 Purity.
Favored Soul = +1 Purity.

Why princess? Because dragons need someone to kidnap...

Or have a beautiful fairytale wedding with. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_xFbyfaHFU)