Ideas for a new character 3.5 editions

[RangerRegis]

We are using Players Handbook 1 and 2, DMs Guide, Complete Arcana, Libris_Mortis and Monster Manual

I need to roll a new character, but Im a bit lost, I would love to play a roguish/outlawish type of character. Who would be chaotic neutral, but I dont know what to do. Any suggestions?

I rolled 17,16,13,12,10,9 for my attributes. I would prefer to play human/elf/dwarf. Maybe play Bard,Rogue,Sorcerer,Warlock maaaaaaaaaaaaybe barbarian/ranger so someone that can have a bit lower morals, because our party is made mostly of good characters, so I wanna screw with that a little ;D

So what would be the best power build in this case, because I need to be able to go against the party a little bit, so I have to be powerful enough so the party doesnt just ignore me.

Please knock yourself out :D

[Nupo]

Put the 17 and 16 on intelligence and strength, and make a 1/2 orc wizard. Use a great axe (1/2 orcs are proficient automatically) take the light armor proficiency as your feat, wear studded leather armor (only a 15% arcane spell failure chance) and bill yourself as a dumb barbarian to the other players. You would be pretty good in melee combat, but at that critical moment you cast a spell and surprise everyone.

[RangerRegis]

Put the 17 and 16 on intelligence and strength, and make a 1/2 orc wizard. Use a great axe (1/2 orcs are proficient automatically) take the light armor proficiency as your feat, wear studded leather armor (only a 15% arcane spell failure chance) and bill yourself as a dumb barbarian to the other players. You would be pretty good in melee combat, but at that critical moment you cast a spell and surprise everyone.

Good idea :D that would be a bit troll :D but I need to mess with the party moral standards, I need to be their goody 2 shoes counterweight :D because everyone in party is either lawful or neutral good

[Particle_Man]

If PHB 2 is allowed, I would suggest looking at the Beguiller. They have a fine selection of roguish skills and of illusion/enchantment spells. They also get light armour proficiency that can be used with their spells without penalty.

[RangerRegis]

If PHB 2 is allowed, I would suggest looking at the Beguiller. They have a fine selection of roguish skills and of illusion/enchantment spells. They also get light armour proficiency that can be used with their spells without penalty.

Sounds like a nice idea, will look into it more, any suggested build?

[GilesTheCleric]

So what would be the best power build in this case, because I need to be able to go against the party a little bit, so I have to be powerful enough so the party doesnt just ignore me.

You've talked to the other players and GM out-of-game that you're interested in this already, right?

[Gildedragon]

Necropolitan Human Sorcerer... maybe into Prestige Bard if it rocks your boat
17 Cha
16 Dex
13 Int
12 Str
10 Wis
- Con

Foppish, full of a joi d'vivre that means death was not an option for them, spend money on F-A-N-C-Y clothes and other comforts (wine, food, etc), use magic to keep oneself looking fresh... maybe let the undead immortal peek through every so often by being rather outmoded, win ya'll nights at the inn's best room by either enchanting the innkeep or charming them with song... or by cheating at card games... or by dominating a local nobleman
Don't do anything outright EVIL... just a bit of light coercion to get them to "lend" you (the party) something for cheap they can afford to give.

[Nupo]

that would be a bit troll :D
I'm not much up on the current lingo. I know of two kinds of trolls, one regenerates unless you apply fire or acid, the other causes trouble on internet forums. I don't get the impression you are referring to either of those. Any chance you could enlighten me in terms a grandfather will understand?

[MintyThe1st]

If you dont mind delving into the world of really shady things, try a Chaotic Neutral Warlock of (Insert Demon Prince Here)

you could be the "Gets the job done, no questions asked" type.

[Karl Aegis]

I'm not much up on the current lingo. I know of two kinds of trolls, one regenerates unless you apply fire or acid, the other causes trouble on internet forums. I don't get the impression you are referring to either of those. Any chance you could enlighten me in terms a grandfather will understand?

It's when you cast out some bait on your fishing line and slowly reel in the bait hoping some fish bite so you can reel them in. Metaphorically, you are trying to trick people as dumb as fish into taking your bait.

[ATHATH]

If PHB 2 is allowed, I would suggest looking at the Beguiller. They have a fine selection of roguish skills and of illusion/enchantment spells. They also get light armour proficiency that can be used with their spells without penalty.
+1. Take the Mother Cyst feat while you're at it; I'm sure that you can put it to good use. *devilish smile*

Here's a handbook for ya: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=363.0


You've talked to the other players and GM out-of-game that you're interested in this already, right?
I'm +1'ing this as well, because it's really important. You'll keep more friends/tablemates (even in other games- you don't want to be known as "the problem player") this way. At the bare minimum, get clearance from your DM- he might be able to weave your character's planned actions into his plot.

Also, I believe that the term that you're looking for to describe your character is a "foil".

[jdizzlean]

just go old school on them, make a rogue, and play it as one. One of my favorite chars ever was a rogue/Wolflord who eventually created a hypogriff cavalry unit. As a rogue, you should be ditching the party when they get in fights and go looking for loot. beef up sleight of hand so you can palm things from chests to keep for yourself.

one of the best encounters ever, the party was getting laid to waste by a veritable horde of orcs/gobbies and i slipped away, found some treasure, and sneaked back at the very last minute. fired one shot on my xbow, killed the last thing, and thus "proved" i was there for the fight. a couple members at the table were upset in their player knowledge that i had ditched them, and thought they could argue w/ the DM that in the middle of all that bedlam they saw me leave, and saw me come back. ho ho ho, not so when you roll high 20/30 on your hide and move silent checks suckers!@

or if you're dm will allow it, build a Kinder.....

[ATHATH]

just go old school on them, make a rogue, and play it as one. One of my favorite chars ever was a rogue/Wolflord who eventually created a hypogriff cavalry unit. As a rogue, you should be ditching the party when they get in fights and go looking for loot. beef up sleight of hand so you can palm things from chests to keep for yourself.

one of the best encounters ever, the party was getting laid to waste by a veritable horde of orcs/gobbies and i slipped away, found some treasure, and sneaked back at the very last minute. fired one shot on my xbow, killed the last thing, and thus "proved" i was there for the fight. a couple members at the table were upset in their player knowledge that i had ditched them, and thought they could argue w/ the DM that in the middle of all that bedlam they saw me leave, and saw me come back. ho ho ho, not so when you roll high 20/30 on your hide and move silent checks suckers!@

or if you're dm will allow it, build a Kinder.....
I vehemently disapprove of/disagree with all of the bolded parts. This is an example of how to piss your tablemates off, not how to play a good foil, which is what I think that the OP is trying to do.

[Gildedragon]

Protip:
Don't PvP (betray party, steal from party, ditch party, piss off players). It might seem fun and games until your character gets stabbed/ditched/npced and feelings get hurt.

If you wanna be a scamp: be one in service OF the party.
Solve problems the party hands you in... dubious means (what they don't know can't hurt them)

[Telonius]

Does the party have a Cleric yet? A Cloistered Cleric of a trickster god can be a load of fun to play. It's got enough skill points to be a half-skillmonkey, and everybody loves someone who can rain down holy vengeance one round, and buff the party the next.

[jdizzlean]

I vehemently disapprove of/disagree with all of the bolded parts. This is an example of how to piss your tablemates off, not how to play a good foil, which is what I think that the OP is trying to do.


Protip:
Don't PvP (betray party, steal from party, ditch party, piss off players). It might seem fun and games until your character gets stabbed/ditched/npced and feelings get hurt.

If you wanna be a scamp: be one in service OF the party.
Solve problems the party hands you in... dubious means (what they don't know can't hurt them)

to clarify, the only players that had an issue w/ it were the rookies, the hardcore RP's thought it was good playmanship, and we still laugh about it all these years later. To the DM's credit, they did eventually trap me in a situation of my own devising, which was hard to get out of, but that's all part of the game. part of table top gaming is playing your alignment, and playing your background, not just having 4-6 people that always agree and get along. if you build a snob, play the snob. if you build a white knight in shining armor, then go out and rescue everything you see.

Maybe thats just a difference in the dynamic of our group and yours.

[ATHATH]

to clarify, the only players that had an issue w/ it were the rookies, the hardcore RP's thought it was good playmanship, and we still laugh about it all these years later. To the DM's credit, they did eventually trap me in a situation of my own devising, which was hard to get out of, but that's all part of the game. part of table top gaming is playing your alignment, and playing your background, not just having 4-6 people that always agree and get along. if you build a snob, play the snob. if you build a white knight in shining armor, then go out and rescue everything you see.

Maybe thats just a difference in the dynamic of our group and yours.
See, that bolded part is what worries me. I'm worried that you think that having an alignment of [insert alignment here] means that you HAVE to act in the manner that you just described. If you had said "your character" or "your character's personality", then I would have felt more comfortable. Ah well, it's not like I can force you to play a certain way or anything. Carry on.

[RangerRegis]

Come on guys where is that famous creativity :D

[RangerRegis]

I'm not much up on the current lingo. I know of two kinds of trolls, one regenerates unless you apply fire or acid, the other causes trouble on internet forums. I don't get the impression you are referring to either of those. Any chance you could enlighten me in terms a grandfather will understand?

Troll as in internet one, which means I would be pulling the parties leg, messing with them ergo trolling them :D

[RangerRegis]

You've talked to the other players and GM out-of-game that you're interested in this already, right?

Of course not, where would be the fun in that :D Im a big fan of finding things out by playing the game, I rarely say stuff related to the game out of it

[RangerRegis]

Necropolitan Human Sorcerer... maybe into Prestige Bard if it rocks your boat
17 Cha
16 Dex
13 Int
12 Str
10 Wis
- Con

Foppish, full of a joi d'vivre that means death was not an option for them, spend money on F-A-N-C-Y clothes and other comforts (wine, food, etc), use magic to keep oneself looking fresh... maybe let the undead immortal peek through every so often by being rather outmoded, win ya'll nights at the inn's best room by either enchanting the innkeep or charming them with song... or by cheating at card games... or by dominating a local nobleman
Don't do anything outright EVIL... just a bit of light coercion to get them to "lend" you (the party) something for cheap they can afford to give.

Thats a great one, gonna put it up for the idea <3

[RangerRegis]

+1. Take the Mother Cyst feat while you're at it; I'm sure that you can put it to good use. *devilish smile*

Here's a handbook for ya: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=363.0


I'm +1'ing this as well, because it's really important. You'll keep more friends/tablemates (even in other games- you don't want to be known as "the problem player") this way. At the bare minimum, get clearance from your DM- he might be able to weave your character's planned actions into his plot.

Also, I believe that the term that you're looking for to describe your character is a "foil".

Nah we are all really good friends out of game, and they know I have a tendency to play this kind of character. So its all fine. But I want it to be a bit of a surprise to them.

[RangerRegis]

Does the party have a Cleric yet? A Cloistered Cleric of a trickster god can be a load of fun to play. It's got enough skill points to be a half-skillmonkey, and everybody loves someone who can rain down holy vengeance one round, and buff the party the next.

Unfortunately yes :/ We do have one, that did occur to me. Still thanks for the idea ^_^

[Nupo]

Troll as in internet one, which means I would be pulling the parties leg, messing with them ergo trolling them :D
OK, I get what you mean. I always thought of an internet troll as someone that messes with others in a hurtful way, where this would just be an innocent secret. And the cat would be out of the bag after you cast the first spell. You could still "troll" NPC's to you advantage with the deception indefinitely.

[Jarmen4u]

Of course not, where would be the fun in that :D Im a big fan of finding things out by playing the game, I rarely say stuff related to the game out of it

I was waiting to say anything until this was confirmed.

Everyone, you're helping a That Guy ruin a game by fulfilling their chaotic randumb fantasy and screwing over the rest of the players (and possibly GM) for their personal enjoyment. I'd recommend against anyone else giving this person advice in this thread. It's pretty obvious their fun comes at the expense of the party, and that's no way to play.

Regis, people like you are why most people don't trust public-run game sites like Roll20 to have quality players.

[Gruftzwerg]

How about a character with some predator stuff and who follows Malar? See my signature for inspiration. A monk/warlock gish relying on claws + pounce, further working with several layers of visual deceptions to avoid LoS and has good scouting abilities himself (e.g.Mindsight on later lvls).
At lvl 8 you can pounce every round and in almost any situation (Stagger gives Charge unlimited direction changes).

Imho a Malar follower would fit your situation very well.
Since you follow the rules of the wilderness, you will have a different opinion than your so called "good" teammates. Show em that they are the baddies, who should show more respect to mother nature , or face the consequences of Malar's Dogma

edit: imho the fluff is even better when you consider the alignment change involved into the Malar build. start as L-G or L-N and have your personality change to C-N over the course of the campaign. Sure the build and alignment change would need some talking to the DM (due to Drunken Master requirement to fight a Master before you may enter, needs to be weaved it into the adventure), but that should be worth it.

[RangerRegis]

I was waiting to say anything until this was confirmed.

Everyone, you're helping a That Guy ruin a game by fulfilling their chaotic randumb fantasy and screwing over the rest of the players (and possibly GM) for their personal enjoyment. I'd recommend against anyone else giving this person advice in this thread. It's pretty obvious their fun comes at the expense of the party, and that's no way to play.

Regis, people like you are why most people don't trust public-run game sites like Roll20 to have quality players.

Actually my friends like that very much :/ I run a chaotic character for the benefit of the party, and my role plays are usually really good. Also I put extra effort to interact and build actual relationships with my party members, such as in the last campaign I was playing a rogue, so in order for one of our class members to multiclass into rogue I was actually teaching him the tools of the trade so to say. I enjoy taking a mess out of characters, giving them personality and fleshing them out. Then making them better than everyone thought they could be, including myself. :/ You sir assumed a very wrong thing.

[Jarmen4u]

Actually my friends like that very much :/

If your friends enjoy you stabbing them in the back and stealing their things, etc, why don't you be upfront with them about your character design? Or at the very least, tell the GM, who should always be aware of your character's "quirks"? Maybe you think they enjoy it, but in reality they just put up with it because they're too nice to say anything.

[Gruftzwerg]

If your friends enjoy you stabbing them in the back and stealing their things, etc, why don't you be upfront with them about your character design? Or at the very least, tell the GM, who should always be aware of your character's "quirks"? Maybe you think they enjoy it, but in reality they just put up with it because they're too nice to say anything.

Would you pls so kind to stop assuming the worst? Especially after he told us/you that it isn't the chase as you think.
he said:

So what would be the best power build in this case, because I need to be able to go against the party a little bit, so I have to be powerful enough so the party doesnt just ignore me.


emphasis added. Imho he didn't said anything about stabbing his teammates of any kind.
Imho all he wants is to "not be ignored when he has a different opinion".

It's like a gang boss meeting and everybody else shows up with a gun. You need a gun too to be acknowledged on the table. And this is the same chase. If he can't back up his arguments with raw power, he will just get ignored by his party members.

Btw, I don't get where your anger comes. Did you had any bad experience of this kind?
My group also loves interaction between characters with codex (e.g. Paladin, Cleric) and characters that don't give much about moral (Rogue, Barb, Warlock).

And if you think it just troubles the group, imho a straightforward barbarian/dwarf/half-ork kind of character can be much more annoying in some situations. Try to explain a dedicated self called "Slayer"character that you don't wanna charge in:
- "Hey, lets not Char.."
- "For BLOOD & HONOR! CHAAAAAARRGGE!"

Imho the players should know what everybody is playing. Further if the "players" are nice to each other, the behavior of their characters to each other will always be portrayed as good roleplay and everybody will enjoy it.
But if the players are just competing against each other with their characters (like some/most people at work), it will always be stress for the party as soon as one of em want's to happen things the other way.

[Jarmen4u]

Would you pls so kind to stop assuming the worst? Especially after he told us/you that it isn't the chase as you think.
he said:


emphasis added. Imho he didn't said anything about stabbing his teammates of any kind.
Imho all he wants is to "not be ignored when he has a different opinion".

It's like a gang boss meeting and everybody else shows up with a gun. You need a gun too to be acknowledged on the table. And this is the same chase. If he can't back up his arguments with raw power, he will just get ignored by his party members.

Btw, I don't get where your anger comes. Did you had any bad experience of this kind?
My group also loves interaction between characters with codex (e.g. Paladin, Cleric) and characters that don't give much about moral (Rogue, Barb, Warlock).

And if you think it just troubles the group, imho a straightforward barbarian/dwarf/half-ork kind of character can be much more annoying in some situations. Try to explain a dedicated self called "Slayer"character that you don't wanna charge in:
- "Hey, lets not Char.."
- "For BLOOD & HONOR! CHAAAAAARRGGE!"

Imho the players should know what everybody is playing. Further if the "players" are nice to each other, the behavior of their characters to each other will always be portrayed as good roleplay and everybody will enjoy it.
But if the players are just competing against each other with their characters (like some/most people at work), it will always be stress for the party as soon as one of em want's to happen things the other way.

Maybe you don't play very often, or you are lucky with a singular group of mature friends. I envy your naiveté. But this entire thread is full of red flags.


I would love to play a roguish/outlawish type of character. Who would be chaotic neutral


someone that can have a bit lower morals, because our party is made mostly of good characters, so I wanna screw with that a little ;D


because I need to be able to go against the party a little bit, so I have to be powerful enough so the party doesnt just ignore me.


I need to mess with the party moral standards


I would be pulling the parties leg, messing with them ergo trolling them :D


I want it to be a bit of a surprise to them.

These are all big flashing signs that say "THAT GUY" and I'm sorry you can't see it. I wish the OP's party luck, since they'll most likely need it with whatever the OP ends up building.

[russdm]

Just have the character be the BBEG and work it out with DM...

[Gruftzwerg]

Maybe you don't play very often, or you are lucky with a singular group of mature friends. I envy your naiveté. But this entire thread is full of red flags.

These are all big flashing signs that say "THAT GUY" and I'm sorry you can't see it. I wish the OP's party luck, since they'll most likely need it with whatever the OP ends up building.
Imho possible red flags. All mentioned text just indicate that it could be a mad troll.
"With knowledge comes responsibility." All mentioned things can be used for "good" and "bad" things that he might do to his teammates.
If his groups really enjoys such interaction as my group, it will be fine. If not, than not. And we won't change anything in his intention with giving/denying him the info desired. Cause a troll, will still troll even with a bad build character.

But in this chase I don't see any real thread as you seem to see. Just a player asking for RAW power to backup his arguments that differ from the so called "good" characters in his group.

Btw, I was on both ends of the stick. And believe me, I can be hilarious to be the Paladin in this kind of scenario. Having somebody you have to discipline and yell at at every opportunity. Or being embarrassed just by his mere presence and the fact that you hang out with these kinds of people. "No, you are not a thief, I'll cut your hands off if I ever see you again stealing" - (other player rolls bluff) > futher interaction > everybody has fun.

Again, if your group plays like a company ( = pure focus on efficiency ), it won't work out. But if your intention is just to have fun with each other, the situation changes dramatically. I am in a group where the people tend to be more roleplayers as rollplayers (we still have lil optimization , just not the focus). And we have sometimes more fun arguing within the group(s problems) than pushing the plot.

[RangerRegis]

If your friends enjoy you stabbing them in the back and stealing their things, etc, why don't you be upfront with them about your character design? Or at the very least, tell the GM, who should always be aware of your character's "quirks"? Maybe you think they enjoy it, but in reality they just put up with it because they're too nice to say anything.


You assume very much :/ I plan to create a chaotic character in the middle of a lawful/neutral party, and so far we had many fun and good roleplays with that, where they either convert my character to be nice, or I turn them all into a bunch of rogues :D

[RangerRegis]

Would you pls so kind to stop assuming the worst? Especially after he told us/you that it isn't the chase as you think.
he said:


emphasis added. Imho he didn't said anything about stabbing his teammates of any kind.
Imho all he wants is to "not be ignored when he has a different opinion".

It's like a gang boss meeting and everybody else shows up with a gun. You need a gun too to be acknowledged on the table. And this is the same chase. If he can't back up his arguments with raw power, he will just get ignored by his party members.

Btw, I don't get where your anger comes. Did you had any bad experience of this kind?
My group also loves interaction between characters with codex (e.g. Paladin, Cleric) and characters that don't give much about moral (Rogue, Barb, Warlock).

And if you think it just troubles the group, imho a straightforward barbarian/dwarf/half-ork kind of character can be much more annoying in some situations. Try to explain a dedicated self called "Slayer"character that you don't wanna charge in:
- "Hey, lets not Char.."
- "For BLOOD & HONOR! CHAAAAAARRGGE!"

Imho the players should know what everybody is playing. Further if the "players" are nice to each other, the behavior of their characters to each other will always be portrayed as good roleplay and everybody will enjoy it.
But if the players are just competing against each other with their characters (like some/most people at work), it will always be stress for the party as soon as one of em want's to happen things the other way.

Thank you very much for sharing my view and for your nice idea build :D I will most likely "steal" it for future games <3

[RangerRegis]

Maybe you don't play very often, or you are lucky with a singular group of mature friends. I envy your naiveté. But this entire thread is full of red flags.

These are all big flashing signs that say "THAT GUY" and I'm sorry you can't see it. I wish the OP's party luck, since they'll most likely need it with whatever the OP ends up building.

You realize we are all friends who know each other to the core :P I always play a "naughty" character or a chaotic one in the least, its just my flavor, I needed some fresh ideas for this time, because I usually play a rogue,assassin,swashbuckler or spy..... I wanted to do something new. Just like my friend always plays a good to the bones cleric, who wont even attack an enemy from behind or when they are flat footed, basically he is playing cleric, with all the codes of behavior from the Knight class. Im sorry m8 that your friends and you dont get along well, but dont assume so for mine. Although I think I could have explained more precisely what I wanted to do instead of using words like troll and pull legs, but I did that to avoid having to write a mile long text :/
Also thanks for bringing this post to an end, because now its TLDR and no one will add anything else