Looking for suggestions on party water management

[Wuufwuuf]

Hi all,

Im a first time DM trying to buy our regular host some extra prep time, and I'd like to pick your brains a bit.

I randomly generated a world map to put the adventure in, and the most notable feature of the map is the nearly complete absence of surface water. I thought it'd make for an interesting time to have the party manage their water supply as a resource. My would be players are on board with the idea, I just have to iron out the specifics.

They'd be allowed to use it as currency, which would scale in value the farther they are from large water sources, but if they allow their characters to get dehydrated there would be consequences like disadvantage on rolls, not regenering as much hp during a rest, etc.

I'm a bit unsure of specifically how I'd like to handle that, so I thought I'd ask for some ideas from people with more experience running games (you guys!) Mostly I'm worried about how much I should say they need to drink (currently thinking 1/2gal per day for small characters, and double the amount of the previous size category for each step above), and what sort of consequences would be best. I have a group with mixed play experience, so I want to strike a balance of impactful, but not outright crippling (although I'm all for things getting worse the longer they're dehydrated.)

I also have a bit of a conundrum with Create/Destroy water. Obviously the ability to just make gallons of water from a single drop would completely undermine the point of managing their water in the first place, not to mention it would let them convert spell slots into GP in most areas of the map.

The easy solution would be to simply say it doesn't exist in this world, but if I can flavor it somehow that there's some sort of drawback or limitation that makes it too impractical or dangerous for frequent use I feel like it would open up some plot/role-play options down the line, which I think is preferable to just disallowing it's use. Perhaps the spell requires a sacrifice, or you have to perform a task for a powerful entity from another plane as payment, and be cursed until you've held up your end of the bargain.

I'd appreciate any input, be it balance advice, thoughts on flavor or mechanics, or even stories about how similar ideas panned out.

TL:DR Looking for thoughts on having players using water as a resource in a world where there is very little (value, effects of dehydration), and how to adjust Create or destroy water to not completely derail all of that.

Thanks in advance!

[Mith]

Perhaps there was an alignment of the Planes that brought the world closer to the Plane of Fire. This means that all Water or Cold related spells are treated as x levels higher in caster level, and that casting the spell requires a Concentration check to avoid spell failure. Spell failure has some sort of damage that requires a Restoration to recover from.

[NNescio]

Perhaps there was an alignment of the Planes that brought the world closer to the Plane of Fire. This means that all Water or Cold related spells are treated as x levels higher in caster level, and that casting the spell requires a Concentration check to avoid spell failure. Spell failure has some sort of damage that requires a Restoration to recover from.

AKA don't bother using those spells.

[Mith]

AKA don't bother using those spells.

Basically. THis was a bunch of ideas off the top of my head. I realize that it is likely too harsh. However a straight spell slot to GP mechanic probably wants to be somewhat mitigated by being a higher level spell. Just making the spells all so many levels higher could work. Even better, Destroy Water stays at the regular level. Moisture is slowly leaving the world, making it difficult to bring back.

[JellyPooga]

Introduce a costly material component for those spells that is consumed on casting...perhaps salt?

[pangoo209]

Slightly off topic, how did you go about making the map?

My recommendation would be to turn water from being a normal everyday thing into more of a trade good. Brewed drinks tend to be the norm. (Wine and ale are drank to stop people from growing dehydrated) and water is valuable in the world.

Add a way for the party to carry water in jugs. Measure it and add a section to whatever inventory the players use.

To solve the problem with magically creating water, you can solve it like this. A character with a water spell shouldn't feel cheated by world to the point where their spells are useless. I would rule that there is some anomaly between this world and the elemental plane of WATER, rather than Fire (A distance or block of some sort). Water in the world is rare and usually found underground because in whatever way it was created water was not given in excess. Magically created water only stays in the world for a short time, before it is magically taken back to the water plane.

This would allow for casters with create water to give water to their party, but not exactly sell it. This would also (potentially) allow for a higher leveled party to try to stop the blockage between your world and the Water plane.

[Wuufwuuf]

Wow, you guys are fast. I was expecting at least another hour before responses came in.


Basically. THis was a bunch of ideas off the top of my head. I realize that it is likely too harsh.

Actually, I feel like harsh is good. It saves me the effort of explaining why every town doesn't have a village water maker. "Because creating water is a great way to kill yourself, that's why." Harsh mechanics naturally fill that plot hole, while simultaneously discouraging the party from abusing said mechanics. My players would probably also like it. We all get really excited when big risks pay off.


Even better, Destroy Water stays at the regular level. Moisture is slowly leaving the world, making it difficult to bring back.

I absolutely love this distinction, and I probably never would have thought about it if you hadn't mentioned it. There's a lot of out of potential for out of the box thinking with destroy water, especially in a world where water is so important.


Introduce a costly material component for those spells that is consumed on casting...perhaps salt?

Material component is pretty good actually. Maybe some super rare gem that people in the world that adventurers are constantly in search of. It'd give me a loot option that isn't just more gear or gold. Maybe keep harsh consequences *unless* you consume this gem, in which case you automatically succeed.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts so far. It's given me some new avenues to consider

[Wuufwuuf]

Slightly off topic, how did you go about making the map?

My recommendation would be to turn water from being a normal everyday thing into more of a trade good. Brewed drinks tend to be the norm. (Wine and ale are drank to stop people from growing dehydrated) and water is valuable in the world.

Add a way for the party to carry water in jugs. Measure it and add a section to whatever inventory the players use.

To solve the problem with magically creating water, you can solve it like this. A character with a water spell shouldn't feel cheated by world to the point where their spells are useless. I would rule that there is some anomaly between this world and the elemental plane of WATER, rather than Fire (A distance or block of some sort). Water in the world is rare and usually found underground because in whatever way it was created water was not given in excess. Magically created water only stays in the world for a short time, before it is magically taken back to the water plane.

This would allow for casters with create water to give water to their party, but not exactly sell it. This would also (potentially) allow for a higher leveled party to try to stop the blockage between your world and the Water plane.

https: //donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/world/

I'm not allowed to post links yet, buy that url will take you to the world generator I used. It might take you a few tries to actually get it to generate something, but it's pretty impressive what it spits out.

I managed to work in a wagon for my group to carry their supply in, so rather than have them worry individually about a canteen, we can all assume each character will drink a given amount over the course of each day and they can math that into an estimate of how long their supplies will last.

The issue with water being an unusual beverage to drink is that most beverages require the use of water at some point in their creation, though perhaps things like cactus juice could work. Basically, if you need water to make it, then it isn't a good replacement.

I considered water disappearing before it could be sold, but that does remove the urgency from events like clearing hostile creatures from a well, or protecting your barrels in an encounter.

Luckily, nobody in the group has water spells yet, so I can make the conditions clear before they're​ stuck with that decision.

[Naanomi]

I'm picturing some sort of Water Gensai messiah

[Wuufwuuf]

I'm picturing some sort of Water Gensai messiah

That might become a quest/NPC now

[Mith]

If the map is mostly Desert, if you use the planar idea, how about Fire and Air have risen to ascendency, bringing about an Age of Desiccation. Make things cyclical, so that after the water returns to the world, you eventually have an Ice Age. Throw hints of this throughout your campaign. Perhaps the Water Messiah is being very, very literal when talking about a World of Water...


Thoughts on what beverages would be consumed, perhaps a neat alternative would take the cactus idea as a plant that filters the moisture from waste. Towns collect waste in sealed jars and use it as fertilizer and water source for the cacti. They extract the water, but fill it with poison to keep others from consuming it. For humanoids, this is a ready made combination between alcohol with some other effects.

While water can be boiled off from the cacti extract (thinking about maple trees here), the milk of the cacti can be distilled, and be useful. It is used as a pain killer, a sedative, or a poison depending on the dosage. Due to the association with human wastes, it is seen as a dirty craving. This puts a love-hate relationship between civilization and the cacti, as it is a reliable source of water that is also a source of many potential problems. Think of it like this world's equivalent to alcohol being a driving force of establishing civilization.

[Wuufwuuf]

Thoughts on what beverages would be consumed, perhaps a neat alternative would take the cactus idea as a plant that filters the moisture from waste. Towns collect waste in sealed jars and use it as fertilizer and water source for the cacti. They extract the water, but fill it with poison to keep others from consuming it. For humanoids, this is a ready made combination between alcohol with some other effects.

While water can be boiled off from the cacti extract (thinking about maple trees here), the milk of the cacti can be distilled, and be useful. It is used as a pain killer, a sedative, or a poison depending on the dosage. Due to the association with human wastes, it is seen as a dirty craving. This puts a love-hate relationship between civilization and the cacti, as it is a reliable source of water that is also a source of many potential problems. Think of it like this world's equivalent to alcohol being a driving force of establishing civilization.

That's a lot thought out. I was going to put an aquifer near or in most towns, but depending on recent weather conditions they may be running low, or even completely dry. I like the idea of some areas not having one and instead knowing this cactus trick. Throw the party a curve ball when they get into the routine of "we found a found new town, let's head to the well!" That will inevitably pop up. It would also be really entertaining to see them role-play a psychedelic cactus water event.

[Naanomi]

Waterbourn monsters will be rare but very threatening... an Aboleth is a big pain, an Aboleth in the only watersource for miles is a deadly threat

[Wuufwuuf]

Waterbourn monsters will be rare but very threatening... an Aboleth is a big pain, an Aboleth in the only watersource for miles is a deadly threat

Maybe sand flavored variants of sea creatures "swim" through the sands, storing up any moisture they can find for their own survival, and hunting them is the only thing keeping entire desert villages from disappearing. Now I'm picturing a desert themed Moby **** with sand skimmers and rock whales.

This is fun!

Edit: should have expected the chat filter to censor that book title...

[Mith]

That's a lot thought out. I was going to put an aquifer near or in most towns, but depending on recent weather conditions they may be running low, or even completely dry. I like the idea of some areas not having one and instead knowing this cactus trick. Throw the party a curve ball when they get into the routine of "we found a found new town, let's head to the well!" That will inevitably pop up. It would also be really entertaining to see them role-play a psychedelic cactus water event.

1) I will soon be graduating from Civil Engineering with a specialization in Water Resources. So this sort of thing is fairly easy to handwave something

2) In my own game as a player I started a project of a self sustaining city that has part of it using a compost reactor, oozes, and elements of alchemy already present in D&D or what the DM had already described as being in the setting in terms of knowledge to work as waste management and resource recycling, a bio reactor to provide the fuel for a desalinization plant that functions as a minor steam turbine. So I am used to fantasy engineering projects.

As for the aquifer, that can work for one region, but would not be all that interesting for every single town. Perhaps the towns deep in the desert does not have the luxury of a big aquifer to draw from. Maybe the Water Messiah is found in this region, as where water is at the greatest scarcity, such a being would have the greatest influence.

[Wuufwuuf]

1) I will soon be graduating from Civil Engineering with a specialization in Water Resources. So this sort of thing is fairly easy to handwave something

2) In my own game as a player I started a project of a self sustaining city that has part of it using a compost reactor, oozes, and elements of alchemy already present in D&D or what the DM had already described as being in the setting in terms of knowledge to work as waste management and resource recycling, a bio reactor to provide the fuel for a desalinization plant that functions as a minor steam turbine. So I am used to fantasy engineering projects.

As for the aquifer, that can work for one region, but would not be all that interesting for every single town. Perhaps the towns deep in the desert does not have the luxury of a big aquifer to draw from. Maybe the Water Messiah is found in this region, as where water is at the greatest scarcity, such a being would have the greatest influence.

That explains a lot. I'm really liking the water Messiah as a quest theme more than a single npc. Maybe the players will have to figure out a long forgotten ritual or something to bring them back to the world, and their mere presence changes the geography.

[Corsair14]

A couple things. Look up Dark Sun and how it manages water. While you are there, check out the Silt Sea. The world you are describing is essentially Athas, no need to reinvent the wheel if you can use one already extensively detailed.
Look up the Sea Of Sand in Greyhawk. Very interesting place as ruins appear and disappear and creatures do indeed swim through the sand.

Water is heavy. Any traveling the PCs do is going to require pack animals to carry the water. I know when we were in the desert in the summer, we were ordered to be drinking 2 liters of water an hour if we weren't active. More if we were wearing armor and moving around in gear. PCs travelling through a land you describe would be accumulating exhaustion for every hour they don't drink as much water as they should be drinking.

I haven't read the rules but off hand if this is already mentioned in the books but this finally sounds like a useful use of the exhaustion mechanic.

[RickAllison]

Maybe sand flavored variants of sea creatures "swim" through the sands, storing up any moisture they can find for their own survival, and hunting them is the only thing keeping entire desert villages from disappearing. Now I'm picturing a desert themed Moby **** with sand skimmers and rock whales.

This is fun!

Edit: should have expected the chat filter to censor that book title...

"We're whalers on Athas,
Our harpoons are sharpest.
But there ain't no whales
So we tell tall tales,
And sing this--- AHH my leg! The great white wyrm ate it!"

I dig it.

[Wuufwuuf]

A couple things. Look up Dark Sun and how it manages water. While you are there, check out the Silt Sea. The world you are describing is essentially Athas, no need to reinvent the wheel if you can use one already extensively detailed.
Look up the Sea Of Sand in Greyhawk. Very interesting place as ruins appear and disappear and creatures do indeed swim through the sand.

Water is heavy. Any traveling the PCs do is going to require pack animals to carry the water. I know when we were in the desert in the summer, we were ordered to be drinking 2 liters of water an hour if we weren't active. More if we were wearing armor and moving around in gear. PCs travelling through a land you describe would be accumulating exhaustion for every hour they don't drink as much water as they should be drinking.

I haven't read the rules but off hand if this is already mentioned in the books but this finally sounds like a useful use of the exhaustion mechanic.

Holy wow, I didn't realize there was already so much source material I could draw on. I know how I'm spending today's downtime now. Thanks for pointing these out.


"We're whalers on Athas,
Our harpoons are sharpest.
But there ain't no whales
So we tell tall tales,
And sing this--- AHH my leg! The great white wyrm ate it!"

This is the best sand shanty ever.

[Laserlight]

1)
As for the aquifer, that can work for one region, but would not be all that interesting for every single town. Perhaps the towns deep in the desert does not have the luxury of a big aquifer to draw from.

Or not a reliable aquifer.
My dad is running a hospital in Zambia; one of his problems is that the local wells dry up, whereupon people get water from the river. And then they tend to get dysentery and die.

[NNescio]

Or not a reliable aquifer.
My dad is running a hospital in Zambia; one of his problems is that the local wells dry up, whereupon people get water from the river. And then they tend to get dysentery and die.

And guinea worm.

(Heard that eradication efforts are going well though, and there weren't any cases last year.)

[Wuufwuuf]

Or not a reliable aquifer.
My dad is running a hospital in Zambia; one of his problems is that the local wells dry up, whereupon people get water from the river. And then they tend to get dysentery and die.


And guinea worm.

(Heard that eradication efforts are going well though, and there weren't any cases last year.)

I like the idea of contaminated water as a story thread. Maybe a whodunnit where someone's been poisoning the well and essentially holding the entire town hoatage. I'd have to sort out the details but it's a good starting point.

[RickAllison]

I like the idea of contaminated water as a story thread. Maybe a whodunnit where someone's been poisoning the well and essentially holding the entire town hoatage. I'd have to sort out the details but it's a good starting point.

"Someone's POIsoned the water hole!" Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[Wuufwuuf]

"Someone's POIsoned the water hole!" Sorry, couldn't help myself.

The quest will be given by a man with a snake in his boot