A Sporting Grapple

[Afgncaap5]

Due to events currently going on in a 3.5 Eberron campaign, I thought I'd ask folks here: how would you build and/or play a character who was a nonmagical grappler?

Magic solves a variety of problems, and creates many more delightful ones, but in this instance the sport of wrestling is stacked up higher than the results. Sure, anyone can win if they happen to be Kord-incarnate and blessed with his divine expertise, and further boosted by the dark secrets of the Wrestlekin sorcerers from Hulkmaniberg, but this is specifically, as Fezzik might put it, "skill against skill alone."

So with no magical gear, no spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities, no divine intervention or other effectively-magical answers to scenarios, and just a thirst for the visceral thrill of sporting combat against your fellow humanoids, how would you build yourself up? What strategies would you use?

I can see the larger races having a pretty big edge here. Theoretically, focusing on Escape Artist might help a bit, though that feels like a "last resort" situation. Still, I'm open to anything.

[Crake]

Powerful build, jotunbrud and improved grapple give you an overall benefit of +12, crushing weight of the mountain stance gives you constrict, bear totem barbarian gives you improved grab on ANY attack (not just natural weapons), besides that, high str and bab i guess?

Oh, and multigrab/improved multigrab would be useful as well, so you can grab people with just your hand without actually being considered grappled yourself, at no penalty.

I actually had a build idea for this not too long ago, since barbarian's improved grab triggers on any weapon attack, the idea was to dual wield whips and snare people up in the whips, holding them down and constricting them each round while you continue to kick people left and right

[SirNibbles]

My way: Get non-magical poison immunity and cover yourself in non-magical contact poison(s). The enemy grapples you and is exposed to the poison(s).

My way is not very sportsmanlike.

[Crake]

My way: Get non-magical poison immunity and cover yourself in non-magical contact poison(s). The enemy grapples you and is exposed to the poison(s).

My way is not very sportsmanlike.

Grappling with whips doesn't expose you to contact poison :smalltongue:

[SirNibbles]

Grappling with whips doesn't expose you to contact poison :smalltongue:

You can start a grapple with Improved Grab after hitting with whips but it doesn't say you can use your weapon for the grapple.

"Improved Grab (Ex): If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required. Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent."

Unless your whip is part of your body, you're out of luck. I seem to remember a spell like that existing.

[Venger]

just use scorpion's grasp

[Afgncaap5]

Whips are a delightful idea, and one that completely fits the stipulations of my original post! However, I should add now that weapons apart from natural ones really aren't permitted by the judges. As Fezzik and the man in black both agreed, this is a contest where one puts down their rock and the other their sword to kill each other in a sportsmanlike manner. The judges would clearly see the whips, and ask you to set them aside before the contest can truly commence.

Moving on, ignoring the possibility of a Detect Poison effect being employed, contact poison is a great suggestion, albeit an unsportsmanlike one! Don't let the judges find out, or they may deduct heavily from the final score! Apart from that, though, contact poison has the issue of fortitude saves. Limiting myself to the (admittedly limited) limitations of the poisons in the DMG, poisons that cost less than a thousand gold and that have a save that a raging barbarian might fail to even with a decent roll are, alas, limited. Better ramp up that Escape Artist check if you're going this route!

Having said that, remind me to keep this in mind for future Eberron games. I think "Signature Poison: Immunity to a particular kind of poison" is a fantastic trait for anyone who wants to pull a Dread Pirate Roberts, or for anyone who wants to be a poison user without jumping through the hoops of securing the Poison Immunity feature.

And I wondered how long it would be before Scorpion's Grasp came up! The feat that more or less gives you Improved Grab without the benefit of allowing you to take other feats that have Improved Grab as a prerequisite. It's not exactly a candidate for just grabbing due to its prerequisites, but someone who wants to be a wrestler likely already has the required feats anyway!

[Eladrinblade]

Well, an orc half-ogre bear totem barbarian with reaping mauler and martial stance (crushing weight of the mountain), the earth's embrace feat, and hell, multiclass to fighter for the weapon spec line with grapple. If you're trying to kill people, get armor spikes. If you could get a level of monk in there for increased unarmed damage, that'd be nice. Theres some monk feats from the oriental book that increase your unarmed damage as well (empty hand, i think). Superior unarmed strike too.

[Hiro Quester]

If you could get a level of monk in there for increased unarmed damage, that'd be nice. Theres some monk feats from the oriental book that increase your unarmed damage as well (empty hand, i think). Superior unarmed strike too.

Plus a level of monk gets you Improved Grapple (as well as Improved Unarmed Strike) as bonus feats.

[Afgncaap5]

Very solid suggestions! I don't see myself ever following that build for a campaign, but for the purposes of just a single wrestling thought-experiment these are great ways to go.

Also, the judges of this thought experiment won't be permitting spiked armor. However, stepping outside of the thought experiment, that reminds me of the situation in the game: one of the competitors is going to be a strange eladrin from one of the feyspires who deals cold damage as a rider effect on top of all of her attacks, and magical dispelling doesn't seem to cancel out what is clearly a supernatural advantage. I haven't said so in-game yet, but I'm planning on using the magic of GM-hand-waving to introduce a handicapping device that'll dampen, but not eliminate, that edge: basically, a fluctuating energy generator that produces fire damage that can cancel out the ice damage on a point for point basis. So instead of contact with the eladrin dealing 1d6 cold damage, it'll instead deal |1d6-1d6| hot or cold damage (depending on which, if any, is stronger.)

However, about half an hour ago I also realized that I'd already described one of the competitors as a "porcuperson from Droaam", and given the nature of porcupeople I'm guessing she'll be able to deal extra piercing damage both when grappling and while grappled (though likely not while pinned.)