PDA

View Full Version : Optimization Multiclass Everything - Optimized



McNinja
2017-03-29, 04:56 AM
I found a thread on the D&D subreddit asking how effective a character with two levels in everything would be, and the repeated answer was "not very."

So, I want to figure out the best, most useful character with the most multiclasses (UA included except new classes), using the point buy system. Including the human +1 to everything, you'd wind up with 14/14/11/14/14/14, just enough for multiclassing :)

5 Battlemaster Fighter, Archery style (Riposte, Precision, Trip maneuvers)
4 Lore Bard
- Cantrips - minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Vicious Mockery
- 1st level - Bane, Healing Word, Faerie Fire, Tasha's Hideous Laughter
- 2nd level - Suggestion, Silence, Phantasmal Force
3 Assassin Rogue
4 Hexblade Warlock Pact of the Blade (Agonizing Blast, Cursebringer)
- Cantrips - Eldritch Blast, Booming blade, Green Flame Blade
- 1st level - Armor of Agathys, Hex
- 2nd level - Mirror Image, Invisibility, Hold Person
4 Hunter Revised Ranger, Defense Style, Colossus Slayer
- 1st level - Absorb Elements, Hunter's Mark, and Cure Wounds.

4 levels of each so the character doesn't miss out on the ability score improvements. Put the first increase in cha, since 3 of these classes need it. Seems decent. Deciding what spell to concentrate on would give you pause, since Bane, Hex, and Hunter's Mark all require concentration. You have some fantastic skills though. Also, I don't think I'd take the levels in this order - might do 5 fighter then go hexblade.

Alternatively, take 2 levels in everything and roleplay as the most indecisive person of all time.

JellyPooga
2017-03-29, 06:27 AM
6 EK Fighter / 3 Hunter Ranger / 2 Rogue / 2 Barbarian / 3 Lore Bard / 2 Land Druid / 2 Warlock

Drawbacks
- You'd need 13's in Str, Dex, Wis and Cha
- You'd only have two ASI/Feats
- "Full Caster" level only 8

Advantages
- Extra Attack + Hordebreaker = 3 Attacks
- "Full Caster" level 8 (sitting vaguely in between a third and a half caster progression)
- Up to 13 Skill profs (including Background but not Race)
- Lot's of options for Bonus Actions
- Wild Shape for utility stealth
- 4 Expertise skills
- Natural Recovery
- 2 Invocations
- Butt-ton of Cantrips

It might struggle a little to contribute effectively in combat, but wouldn't be awful. Outside of combat, though, it could truly excel.

7 Classes.

Citan
2017-03-29, 09:16 AM
I found a thread on the D&D subreddit asking how effective a character with two levels in everything would be, and the repeated answer was "not very."

So, I want to figure out the best, most useful character with the most multiclasses (UA included except new classes), using the point buy system. Including the human +1 to everything, you'd wind up with 14/14/11/14/14/14, just enough for multiclassing :)

Alternatively, take 2 levels in everything and roleplay as the most indecisive person of all time.
In fact, 2 levels in nearly each class has still much potent to bring to the party. Just a different one.
Things to tackle:
- AC: no Unarmored Defense feature will really help, so you will have to go with Medium Armor or Heavy with loss of speed.
- Attack: you will never get Multiattack so you will have to rely on weapon cantrips and the like.
- Defense: you will never get important defensive features nor feats so you will have to cope with spells and tactics.

Considering all this you have several ways to go at this.
Balanced magic weapon user
Barbarian 1 / Bard 2 / Life Cleric 1 / Moon Druid 2 / Fighter 2 / Monk 1 / Devotion Paladin 3 / Ranger 2 / Rogue 2 / Draconic Sorcerer 1 / Undying Light Warlock 1 / Bladesinger Wizard 2
You know what?
YOU ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD.

First, you are a 10th level caster with 1 short-rest slot for Warlock. So for all your 1st level spells, many of which being upcastable, you can fuel them all day which means you are a reliable buffer (especially by starting Fighter so Concentration save).

Second, you have several ways to help surviving: Rage for physical resistance, bonus action Wild Shape to get THP and extra mobility when you have to withdraw, base AC 13+DEX which can net a 15 AC if you squeeze some 13 in stats, to which you can add Bladesong benefit so you end with 17 AC, pretty respectable. And you can top it off with Shield of Faith when needed, or Mariner Fighting Style since UA is allowed (+1 AC).
You also get great mobility and good hiding capability thanks to Cunning Action from Rogue.

Third, you get pretty decent attack: with Devotion's Sacred Weapon on your quarterstaff/shortsword, you get nearly as good to hit as a normal character with maxed stat. Thanks to Undying Light Warlock, you get pretty good damage on GreenFlameBlade and a decent to good ranged attack with Eldricht Blast.
You can boost your stats (and allies) with Bless as needed, and damage with divine smite.
And you can either take the TWF style to go dual-wield (one more chance of Divine Smite), or Close Quarter Shooters which (IIRC) also affects ranged spell attacks. Or both (since you have 3 Fighting Styles total: Fighter, Ranger, Paladin).

Fourth, you are the great utility guy: although you don't get the most interesting rituals, you still knows around a dozen cantrips, which means once you took the usual offensive ones (BB, GFB, Shocking Grasp, Eldricht Blast, Thorn Whips) you can rack on utilities (Message, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Produce Flame, Mage Hand, Mold Earth etc).

Fifth, you are a great help in skills: between your starting skills (background + Fighter) + Bard extra skill + Ranger extra skill + Rogue extra skill + Jack of All Trades + Rogue Expertise, you are one everyone can turn to in spite of your lower stats.

Basically, the things that really save such a stupid theorycraft build are...
- spellcasting slots cumulating.
- cantrips scale with character level, not class level.
- some features are as great as level 20 as they are at level 2 (Cunning Action, Action Surge, Divine Smite).
- great balance of choice of actions and bonus action so you always have a good thing to do with both.
- many short-rest features that help with attack or defense or both.

Alternatives could be to drop Paladin additional levels and instead go Te Warlock 3 so you get more short-rest slots, more rituals and nice CHA-dependant cantrips.

But as long as you try to get 2 levels in as many different classes as possible, it's really tricky to do better than that.

The only real drop here is Monk (Unarmored is basically wasted, and you can get TWF so attacking with your weapon is better than Martial Arts, so everything is wasted), so you may want to drop Paladin's 3rd level to squeeze Monk 2 to get a nifty +10 speed and 2 Ki dedicated to Dodge bonus action.
Only other options I see is going Shadow Sorcerer instead of Draconic (you have to blow one slot on Mage Armor, but you get free chance to avoid dropping to 0) and/or going Warlock 2 to get a slightly better ranged attack (Agonizing Blast).
Beyond that I don't see how you could make a character much better...

For a build when only 1 level is the minimum required, it would be much easier. ;)

Vaz
2017-03-29, 09:41 AM
Do everything build;

VHUMAN (Skilled) Rogue 11/Lore Bard 3/Monster Hunter Fighter 3/Warlock 2/Knowledge Cleric 1

Can swap Rogue Levels (taken to get Reliable Talent) for either more Lore Bard or Fighter Levels.

But if you go Rogue, you are auto making any non proficient, stat penalty check with a DC of 15 or lower, and any one of your 8 Expertised Skills with a minimal DC of like 26. Either use Sneak Attack, Party Face, Intelligence Skills, or drop SA for Fighter Abilities.

Vorpalchicken
2017-03-29, 09:54 AM
Doesn't win the most classes award but I think it's cool.
Rogue 2, Knowledge Cleric 1, Coast Druid 4, Eldritch Knight 6, Monk 4, Hunter Ranger 3
Could focus on Dex and Wis and even take variant human. 4 ASIs. May go open hand monk or maybe laser monk would be fun. If Sharpshooter was selected (not for Sun monk) then battle master could be better than EK. Coast Druid is for mirror image and misty step.
Edit: Ok, now that I look at it sun soul would be pretty bad. Open Hand or Drunken Master would be better.

Matrix_Walker
2017-03-29, 10:42 AM
Winged Tiefling

Rogue (Scout) 3 / Bard (Lore) 3 / Cleric (Life) 1 / Ranger 1 /

is a nice base... Take the skilled feat at level 9 to have every skill, 8 with expertise, and you are the ultimate skill monkey with half a build to go.

Then take a few warlock levels for death from above eldritch blast, and maybe finish with some sorcerer for metamagic.

Specter
2017-03-29, 11:01 AM
Do everything build;

VHUMAN (Skilled) Rogue 11/Lore Bard 3/Monster Hunter Fighter 3/Warlock 2/Knowledge Cleric 1

Can swap Rogue Levels (taken to get Reliable Talent) for either more Lore Bard or Fighter Levels.

But if you go Rogue, you are auto making any non proficient, stat penalty check with a DC of 15 or lower, and any one of your 8 Expertised Skills with a minimal DC of like 26. Either use Sneak Attack, Party Face, Intelligence Skills, or drop SA for Fighter Abilities.

This is as good as it gets for skillmonkeys. If you want another class, get Ranger in there for another skill.

Using point buy, this is how you make a decent martial with 7 classes:

Half-Elf
ST8, DX20, CO14, IN8, WI14, CH14
Eldritch Knight 6/Arcane Trickster 5/War Cleric 1/Fiend Warlock 1/Desert Druid 3/Ranger 2/Bard 2

Start Fighter. First ASI goes towards making DEX18, the other one towards Tough or War Caster (if you want to use a shield). Rogue ASI towards maxing DEX.
Final caster level is 11th, so you can use them on scalable spells or just spam Shield/Absorb Elements/Blur/Divine Favor (timelessly good).
Other goodies: 152HP at level 20 (or 192 with Tough), 2 fighting styles, action surge, 3d6 sneak attack, uncanny dodge, 9 skills, 2 expertised skills, 2 extra attacks per long rest, 3HP back when you kill dudes, Wild Shape, Natural Recovery, Ranger's wilderness bonuses, 2 bardic inspirations and adding half proficiency to all unproficient checks.

McNinja
2017-03-29, 11:08 AM
The only real drop here is Monk (Unarmored is basically wasted, and you can get TWF so attacking with your weapon is better than Martial Arts, so everything is wasted), so you may want to drop Paladin's 3rd level to squeeze Monk 2 to get a nifty +10 speed and 2 Ki dedicated to Dodge bonus action.
Only other options I see is going Shadow Sorcerer instead of Draconic (you have to blow one slot on Mage Armor, but you get free chance to avoid dropping to 0) and/or going Warlock 2 to get a slightly better ranged attack (Agonizing Blast).
Beyond that I don't see how you could make a character much better...

For a build when only 1 level is the minimum required, it would be much easier. ;)
I noticed the monk really didn't add much to the equation when I was theorycrafting this morning. Ki is nice, but outside of specific monk abilities it's not incredibly useful, although flurry of blows could be good if you put hunter's mark or hex on an enemy.

But it is very cool how you could take 2 levels of every class and not be completely useless.

Citan
2017-03-29, 12:24 PM
I noticed the monk really didn't add much to the equation when I was theorycrafting this morning. Ki is nice, but outside of specific monk abilities it's not incredibly useful, although flurry of blows could be good if you put hunter's mark or hex on an enemy.

But it is very cool how you could take 2 levels of every class and not be completely useless.
As I tried to demonstrate, you would be in fact a pretty good character (provided you achieve that lvl 20). Of course, you would pale on the pure "world-changing" power scale compared to a pure caster, and you would feel weak compared to a pure martial such as Fighter or Barbarian. But you can still be a great asset to any party, even at level 20, because you can take care of all the mundane chores through rituals and all usual buffs through upcast and slots, be the one to tackle anything related to skills which are not the one particular forte of someone else, while still handling yourself good enough on the battlefield offense/defense wise.

As for the particular case of the Monk...
Well, the Monk is hard to multiclass with because of all the requirements: WIS and DEX, no armor, exclusive resource etc...

But if you drop the all class requirement or at least tone it down to "1 level only", then you could actually so some nice things.
Let's take 1 level everywhere first, you still have 8 levels to play with.
Taking again your idea of normal human with 14 everywhere for the sake of simplicity.
The classes that can be "good enough" at level 1 are the following: Cleric (cantrips, spells, Domain), Fighter (proficiencies, Fighting Style), Druid (spells, cantrips, "scout" Wild Shape), Rogue (Sneak Attack, Expertise), Sorcerer (Draconic/Shadow benefits, cantrips, spells), Warlock (short-rest slot, cantrips, spells) and Wizard (cantrips, spells).

On the contrary, Paladin and Ranger provide little before lvl 2 where they get their Fighting Style and spells. But at the same time, those providing the stronger benefits at level 2 are imo...
Rogue (hands down, Cunning Action), Warlock (Invocations), Fighter (Action Surge).
Along with particular cases (Paladin for Smite if you have many slots, Bladesinger Wizard if you have decent INT, Barbarian if you want to risk it all on offense etc).

Monk really is worth investment imo when you get your Way, so lvl 3. Meaning you still have 6 levels left.

So beyond that, you have several ways to go at it.
Either go plain Monk 9, meaning you grab 2 ASI to bump your primary stat.
Or top it at lvl 5-6 so you get a decent amount of Ki, Extra Attack, Stunning Strike, while enabling a particular combo by grabbing a few levels in other classes. For example...

Night Owl: Shadow Monk with another Rogue level for Cunning Action, another Warlock level for Devil's Sight, using Darkness and bonus action Hide to sneak and stun.
(So Everything else 1 / Rogue 2 / Warlock 2 / Shadow Monk 5-7)

Field Tactician: Open Hand Monk with 2 more Fighter levels for Action Surge and Battlemaster, and one more level in Ranger for the spellless variant which grants Manoeuvers instead. On the battlefield, you cast Bless on yourself and allies and spend your time pushing (Shove attacks, Flurry) / pulling (Thorn Whips) / stunning (Stunning Fist).
(So Everything else 1 / Battlemaster Fighter 3 / Ranger 2 / Open Hand Monk 5-6)

Fiery Monk: 4 Elements Monk with more levels in Wizard to get Bladesong and Haste (Monk 4 / Wizard 5): run around the battlefield like hell while dishing out attacks from 15 feet away, or run through enemy lines to try and stun one big dangerous guy before backing away, maybe using a Ki on Disengage/Dodge bonus action if it feels useful. Not necessarily the most powerful (although having such a good reach certainly makes you more efficient in the first place), but certainly funny. XD
(So Everything else 1 / 4 Elements Monk 5 / Bladesinger Wizard 5)
Well, provided the DM waives the requirement about racial elven origin for Bladesinger. Otherwise go Shadow Sorcerer 6: with your pet, you are actually pretty decent at debuffing if you want to do so. You still get Haste).

Commandeer: Long Death Monk 6 / Thief Rogue 3: In addition to all the useful spells you can concentrate on, spend your time between frightening all your enemies with your level 6 action thanks to a welcome WIS bump (could seem underwhelming at first, until you realize how bad being frightened is XD)....
And helping allies around by stealing weapons from enemies, pouring healing potions into allies's dying mouth or carry/pull them out of enemy reach (thanks to everything you can do with "extended" Cunning Action).
Fun fact: you could even cast Sanctuary on yourself and still be able to use your fear ability: by RAW, Sanctuary breaks "if you make an attack or cast a spell that affects an enemy creature". Hour of Reaping is neither. XD

EDIT: Note that for this kind of specialized build, you could maybe forego the "14 everywhere" to try and grab a starting 16 in DEX or WIS, at the price of Constitution.

For a point-buy though, really not much choice XD

But I had a chance to play a character with high stats roll, I would definitely try this kind of stupid character. XD