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View Full Version : Pathfinder Threnodic Doiminate Person vs. Control Undead



Segev
2017-03-29, 01:47 PM
Granted, it takes a metamagic feat and +2 spell levels (though you could invest in a metamagic rod, most likely), but does it strike anybody else as weird that threnodic dominate person will generally work better for a necromancer seeking to control intelligent undead minions than control undead? They both use a 7th level spell slot (again, unless you use a metamagic rod for Threnodic Spell, in which case it's a 5th level slot for dominate person), but threnodic dominate person not only gives you telepathic control (rather than voice control, albeit without language barrier), but threnodic dominate person lasts for 1 day per level, rather than control undead's 1 min./level.

Now, control undead does allow you to control multiple undead, basing its limits on HD rather than on single-target, but still, it's so much shorter duration that it's only really useful as a bullying tactic or a tactical spell.



...could you order undead affected by control undead to fail a save against command undead? At least that provides day/level "friendliness" with the creatures. They'll expressly construe your having used control undead on them in the best light possible.

Still, weird that dominate grants so much firmer control than control undead. For a lower level, too, if you're not using Threnodic Spell to catch undead with it.

Necroticplague
2017-03-29, 02:31 PM
Threnodic Spell doesn't make Dominate Person work on undead. Threnodic lets you ignore their immunity to mind effecting, not the fact they aren't valid targets for Dominate person.

Segev
2017-03-29, 02:34 PM
Good catch, and good point. That does make me a bit happier, since dominate monster (as a 9th level spell) is well out of reach of a +2 metamagic (barring a greater metamagic rod).

Geddy2112
2017-03-29, 03:47 PM
A sorcerer with the undead bloodline can use dominate person on undead, so long as they were humanoids in life and are corporeal.

Segev
2017-03-29, 05:25 PM
Huh. Looks like it's something you could dip for, too, if you wanted. Would let you skimp on command undead and use its effects from level 1.

Psyren
2017-03-29, 11:56 PM
Even if this worked, Control Undead has several advantages. There's no "actions against its nature" reroll, you can give it self-destructive orders, and most importantly, a level 1 spell can't instantly suppress your control. (There's also no Sense Motive DC to determine the undead is acting funny, though that's minor.)

Bucky
2017-03-29, 11:59 PM
and most importantly, a level 1 spell can't instantly suppress your control.

Why wouldn't that level 1 spell work against Control Undead?

Psyren
2017-03-30, 09:48 AM
Why wouldn't that level 1 spell work against Control Undead?

Because Control Undead is neither a [charm] nor [compulsion].