Domain Spontaneity vs. Spontaneous Domains (3.5)

[Chester]

Two Feats:

Domain Spontaneity (Complete Divine, p. 80)
Spontaneous Domains (Complete Champion, p. 62)

Seems to me that Domain Spontaneity is better.

What do you think?

[GilesTheCleric]

Domain Spontaneity is best if you have a domain with a whole lot of spells you expect to cast frequently. Spontaneous Domains is useful if you have more than two domains with good niche spells.

Essentially, these two feats place a different focus on which list your workhorse spells are in. Yes, Spontaneous Domains has a higher cost to use, but there are good domain-only spells that it's worth using them with. Clerics by mid levels have enough spells prepped that losing a few slots shouldn't make a difference on most days.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Giles already got most of it, but i'll mention that you can replace Domain Spontaneity with a Domain Icon (FoE, 10000gp) which is probably easier to spend than a feat.
There's also Domain Staffs (CC, 36000gp), but they're strictly worse unless the god you worship doesn't have the domain you want (icons are deity-specific, so if you get an extra domain somewhere that's not on your deities list you'll need a staff).

Spontaneous Domains is useful if you've picked up a lot of extra domains.
Cloistered Cleric, Church Inquisitor, Divine Oracle, Contemplative, Sovereign Speaker... some builds can end up with 5 or more domains pretty easily, and taking Domain Spontaneity for all of them just isn't realistic.
If some of them have spells that you'll need regularly or more than once/day get a Domain Icon for those, then use your domain slots for all the rest spontaneously.

Not to mention that Domain Spontaneity costs Turn Undead uses, which you'll probably want to conserve for DMM or other divine feats. Or at least i would.

[Gullintanni]

Spontaneous Domain Casting is also a variant from PHB2. You lose your spontaneous Cure/Inflicts, but...lower cost IMHO than paying a feat for it.

Even if you only get to pick one Domain.

I'm a big fan of the Magic Domain for spontaneous Dispel Magic - especially when paired with Divine Defiance and the Inquisition Domain. CL +4 Immediate Action Counterspelling for as long as you have turn attempts and spell slots.

[ATHATH]

Does any of this stuff work with Religious Adepts?

[Fizban]

Adepts can't take Cleric ACFs and don't have turning to fuel the feat, so no.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Spontaneous Domain Casting is also a variant from PHB2. You lose your spontaneous Cure/Inflicts, but...lower cost IMHO than paying a feat for it.

Even if you only get to pick one Domain.

I'm a big fan of the Magic Domain for spontaneous Dispel Magic - especially when paired with Divine Defiance and the Inquisition Domain. CL +4 Immediate Action Counterspelling for as long as you have turn attempts and spell slots.
Losing spontaneous cure spells would usually be a no-brainer, but it also means losing spontaneous Sanctified spells which hurts a lot more, so i'm not sure it's cheaper than a feat.
It's something to keep in mind at least.

Also Dispel Magic is only third level, so a Pearl of Power or two are pretty affordable. It depends on how often counterspelling actually comes up for you.
Or you could just be a Dweomerkeeper and pick Dispel Magic for your Mantle of Spells at DwK 1.

[Gullintanni]

Losing spontaneous cure spells would usually be a no-brainer, but it also means losing spontaneous Sanctified spells which hurts a lot more, so i'm not sure it's cheaper than a feat.
It's something to keep in mind at least.

Also Dispel Magic is only third level, so a Pearl of Power or two are pretty affordable. It depends on how often counterspelling actually comes up for you.
Or you could just be a Dweomerkeeper and pick Dispel Magic for your Mantle of Spells at DwK 1.

Don't sanctified spells require feat investment and an exalted character? Am I the only one who things good aligned Clerics are boring?

Regardless...it's not about how often it comes up, rather, it's about how important it is when it comes up. Being able to hard counter enemy spellcasters can turn a battle from TPK to decisive victory.

Plus dispelling also means taking out buffs and surpressing magic items. Those items actually come up fairly often for me.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Don't sanctified spells require feat investment and an exalted character? Am I the only one who things good aligned Clerics are boring?

Regardless...it's not about how often it comes up, rather, it's about how important it is when it comes up. Being able to hard counter enemy spellcasters can turn a battle from TPK to decisive victory.

Plus dispelling also means taking out buffs and surpressing magic items. Those items actually come up fairly often for me.

No, that's exalted spells i think.
Any non-evil caster who prepares spells can prepare sanctified spells in his slots. Anyone who casts cure spells spontaneously can also cast sanctified spells spontaneously. And seeing how some of them are pretty good that's a rather nice benefit.

And it's not like you can't prepare Dispel Magic normally. Casting it spontaneously is useful, no doubt about that, but i think i'd rather keep the versatility of sanctified spells and spend a feat on it if i feel the need.

[Gullintanni]

No, that's exalted spells i think.
Any non-evil caster who prepares spells can prepare sanctified spells in his slots. Anyone who casts cure spells spontaneously can also cast sanctified spells spontaneously. And seeing how some of them are pretty good that's a rather nice benefit.

And it's not like you can't prepare Dispel Magic normally. Casting it spontaneously is useful, no doubt about that, but i think i'd rather keep the versatility of sanctified spells and spend a feat on it if i feel the need.

Im AFB but...im pretty sure sanctified and exalted spells refer to the same thing. Could be wrong.

Either way - having "Stick up your butt" as a class feature is no fun. Ive played three Clerics and when I learned I had to adopt a code of conduct to cast sanctified//exalted spells, I closed the book on that kind of magic and never looked back.

As for Dispel Magic is one of those situational spells that I never want to prepare, but I'm thrilled to have on speed dial. When you need it, you really need it, the rest of the time, it's a wasted slot.

[Buufreak]

Two Feats:

Domain Spontaneity (Complete Divine, p. 80)
Spontaneous Domains (Complete Champion, p. 62)

Seems to me that Domain Spontaneity is better.

What do you think?

Giles already got most of it, but i'll mention that you can replace Domain Spontaneity with a Domain Icon (FoE, 10000gp) which is probably easier to spend than a feat.
There's also Domain Staffs (CC, 36000gp), but they're strictly worse unless the god you worship doesn't have the domain you want (icons are deity-specific, so if you get an extra domain somewhere that's not on your deities list you'll need a staff).

Spontaneous Domains is useful if you've picked up a lot of extra domains.
Cloistered Cleric, Church Inquisitor, Divine Oracle, Contemplative, Sovereign Speaker... some builds can end up with 5 or more domains pretty easily, and taking Domain Spontaneity for all of them just isn't realistic.
If some of them have spells that you'll need regularly or more than once/day get a Domain Icon for those, then use your domain slots for all the rest spontaneously.

Not to mention that Domain Spontaneity costs Turn Undead uses, which you'll probably want to conserve for DMM or other divine feats. Or at least i would.

Now I'm generally curious after the last villain comp, how would these feats and items interact with Heretic of the Faith?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Im AFB but...im pretty sure sanctified and exalted spells refer to the same thing. Could be wrong.

Either way - having "Stick up your butt" as a class feature is no fun. Ive played three Clerics and when I learned I had to adopt a code of conduct to cast sanctified//exalted spells, I closed the book on that kind of magic and never looked back.

As for Dispel Magic is one of those situational spells that I never want to prepare, but I'm thrilled to have on speed dial. When you need it, you really need it, the rest of the time, it's a wasted slot.

Every prepared caster can cast sanctified spells, as long as he's not evil. You don't need to adopt a code of conduct beyond "don't be evil". You don't even need to be good, neutral works too.

The other kind was celestial spells, not exalted. My mistake. They need you to be a good outsider, sometimes a specific kind (Archon, Eladrin, etc.) or a Celestial Mystic. But they have nothing to do with sanctified spells beyond being in the same book.

As for Dispel Magic it's not like you can't trade it for a spontanous heal or sanctified spell if you don't need it. Preparing it normally doesn't hurt anything.
I'd rather have a big selection of spontaneous spells available than only a single domains worth, with only one i'd ever use with any regularity (because aside from dispel none of the Magic domain is stuff where i'd say "i need this spontaneously").

[Gullintanni]

Every prepared caster can cast sanctified spells, as long as he's not evil. You don't need to adopt a code of conduct beyond "don't be evil". You don't even need to be good, neutral works too.

The other kind was celestial spells, not exalted. My mistake. They need you to be a good outsider, sometimes a specific kind (Archon, Eladrin, etc.) or a Celestial Mystic. But they have nothing to do with sanctified spells beyond being in the same book.

As for Dispel Magic it's not like you can't trade it for a spontanous heal or sanctified spell if you don't need it. Preparing it normally doesn't hurt anything.
I'd rather have a big selection of spontaneous spells available than only a single domains worth, with only one i'd ever use with any regularity (because aside from dispel none of the Magic domain is stuff where i'd say "i need this spontaneously").

Fair enough I suppose. Ive never chosen positive energy channeling as an option for my Clerics...so spontaneous converting to sancitifed as never been an option for me anyway.