Making crafting magic items in 5e with feats

[Rotsu]

A player wants to make an artifacer, great! I'm all for it! I just want to offer them some more options, for flavor, instead of feats, i was thinking about
Weaponsmithing tree,
1st "feat"
you pick a weapon type (sword, polearm, axe, hammer) you begin unlocking secrets of how to make them more powerful, you can make +1 (weapon) with enough time and money.
2nd "feat"
You continue down your chosen tree, or you can take a divergent path, making special weapons
+2 if continue down normal,
Flametongues for swords or about there equivalents for other weapons.
3rd feat
either get +2 weapon, special enchantments, or +3 weapons. depending. If you take two Specail enchantments in a row you become specialized in that enchantment. You can make it better, so instead of flametongues you make sunblades. etc.
4th feat/5th feat
If you take up to +3 and get two specialty feats, present your player with a weapon along the lines of holy avenger, the pinnacle of weapon crafting of their type. Elves may get Moonblades, Dwarves may get axes of dwarvish lords. Roll for flaws and whatnot as per magic item tables in dmg.
If they stop at one specialty feat and +3 swords and go into another tree, they get really good weapons, maybe a +3 flametongues or the like.
Staves and rods should fit in here somewhere. Wands too.

Armor Tree.
Same as weapon tree, but instead of dealing more damage they can put resistance then immunity to the damage type, idk. Dwarvish plate should fit in here, along with mage robes and stuff. IDK where.

Wonderous item tree.
1st feat
Common/uncommon things that arent weapons/armor can be made here. Sending stones is an example
2nd feat.
Rare items that arent weapons/armor like rings of resistance can be made here.
3rd feat
Very rare items could be made here. Belt of Stone Giant Strength could be made here.
4th feat
Legendary items. Elemental command rings, Belt of Storm Giant strength etc can be made here.
5th feat.
I was imagining something like a signature item here. a stronger version of something that exists or an artifact, that the player custom makes. They only get one though.

Obviously there would be more than "oh you got to your fifth feat, heres a holy avenger!" it would require time money tasks and all kinds of other stuff. I was thinking of when the players get to taking the feat they find someone who gives them a quest, the quest, if completed, gives them the items required to make something in the tier they allow. They return and the person who gave them the quest would then show them how to make the item. The more powerful the item the more deadly the quest. You want a sunblade? You can have one, but it will take you killing a beholder and harvesting its eye stalks. It must be a beholder who has an eye stalk that replicates a certain spell. So it might take awhile to find the stuff to make the item. A few of these. So you could theoretically make a campaign around just this. Thoughts?
I just sat down and dropped this in like an hour. I haven't even proofread it. I would really like peoples opinions on this. What they would change and why. If they like it, hate it, why.
Thanks
Rotsu

[Phoenix042]

Magic item creation honestly shouldn't be handled with feats. ASI's are valuable things, and they're meant to allow you to flesh out a character concept mechanically. Thing is, feats that let you make magic items don't directly benefit any one of the three pillars of D&D gameplay: exploration, social interaction, and combat.

They may sound fun and thematic, but think about what any other character concept is required to invest into his chosen area; If you want to be REALLY good at hitting things hard with your greatsword, you need to invest exactly ONE feat into it. Even if your concept is more complicated, you usually need a maximum of two feats to realize your builds full potential. You're asking this artificer to invest possibly 5 feats into "getting some extra treasure." Extra treasure doesn't seem like the sort of ultimate result that a feat investment should net your character.

Magic item creation should be allowed by default without investing build resources into it, should take a very, very long time in the game world, and should require some quests to be undertaken to get various rare materials to work with. If you want to homebrew options for an artificer, I'd suggest something as simple as adding a new tool proficiency to the game for making different broad categories of magic items. Since tool proficiencies can be picked up during downtime, that allows a character to invest time into learning the trade, without requiring the player to burn character building resources on it.

[Rotsu]

The player came to me with this idea, I thought it sounded fun. Basically the player asked me to make this system. Also we agreed that he would get three from being an artificer already, instead of more attunement slots. I already do attunement slots differently. This is just in case the player so happens to chose forge cleirc, which he might. This was just a check to see if others thought this wouldn't be game breaking. Also my world is more rare magic items too. Like magic item shops just don't exist. you might get a +1 sword from a big city if you are lucky. The player asked if he could get magic item making feats instead of feats. So i made something. I get that making it a new tool proficiency would be good, but I also do feats a little different. If you have a large enough amount of time and do a quest for a person they might teach you a feat, on top of your normal ASI feats. Players cannot teach players feats.
I digress.
The player wanted a system for magic items. Not ASIs.
I quote
"ive been thinking about some changes to the artifacer class, and wanted to bounce them off you and see if you like them. the bonus attunement slots they get seem a little redundant in your world, what with anyone with decent charisma getting more. so what if we replaced them with a bonus feet that must be taken from the magic crafting tree? thats a total of 3 bonus feats taken at level 20, and if they wanna spent more feats (from the lvl 4,8,12 etc...) then it gives them more access to magic crafting than anyone else without being over the top early game"
Thanks
Rotsu

[Pex]

Magic item creation honestly shouldn't be handled with feats. ASI's are valuable things, and they're meant to allow you to flesh out a character concept mechanically. Thing is, feats that let you make magic items don't directly benefit any one of the three pillars of D&D gameplay: exploration, social interaction, and combat.

They may sound fun and thematic, but think about what any other character concept is required to invest into his chosen area; If you want to be REALLY good at hitting things hard with your greatsword, you need to invest exactly ONE feat into it. Even if your concept is more complicated, you usually need a maximum of two feats to realize your builds full potential. You're asking this artificer to invest possibly 5 feats into "getting some extra treasure." Extra treasure doesn't seem like the sort of ultimate result that a feat investment should net your character.

Magic item creation should be allowed by default without investing build resources into it, should take a very, very long time in the game world, and should require some quests to be undertaken to get various rare materials to work with. If you want to homebrew options for an artificer, I'd suggest something as simple as adding a new tool proficiency to the game for making different broad categories of magic items. Since tool proficiencies can be picked up during downtime, that allows a character to invest time into learning the trade, without requiring the player to burn character building resources on it.

While I agree magic item creation shouldn't be encompassed via feats, magic item creation "should" only take as long and as hard as the DM wants for his particular campaign with potentially some input from the player(s) who are interested in such a thing. However, I would be ok with a DM requiring a cost of one feat for the privilege of creating magic items. Maybe have a prerequisite of being able to do Ritual Casting, so wizards and clerics just need that one feat but if a fighter player really wants to craft his own magic weapon and armor he can do it by taking the Ritual Caster feat in addition. A two feat investment is quite high, but it is a counterweight to another warrior who spent two feats on Great Weapon Master and Polearm Master or Polearm Master and Sentinel.

I'm very much aware what the official 5E rules are about it. I find them a passive aggressive way of saying "We don't want PCs to ever create magic items, but we're not brave enough to outright forbid it so here's a technicality of allowing magic item creation."

[Joe the Rat]

Guidelines for required level for item creation already exist in the DMG. It's the process of how you get there that's the question.

For our home game, I have required a relevant craft proficiency (alchemy for potions, smithy for weapons, etc.), Arcana proficiency, and being a spellcaster to make magic items. Note that these are the necessary elements; they are not necessary for one person (so a blacksmith, sage, and cleric could team up, for example). You still need to find the formulae/instructions/process, and will take a little "research" (as with spells - time and money) to fine-tune your methods.

Now, if you wanted to have an item crafting feat, it should be something that will be useful for anyone, and will either provide all you need, or grow with the character. Look at Ritual Caster - you take this feat, and you can add more spells to your ritual book as you advance. RC is probably a good starting model.

If I were buildign from ground up, I'd suggest:

Proficiency in a crafting tool (so they will have at least one).
The ability to make magic items - following whatever scheme you want to use - with no other requirements. If you take this as a non-caster, you are still capable of making magic pants or whatever.
Reduced development costs ("research" time/expense halved).

I don't know if you could get away with this as a half-feat (with a +1 to an attribute), but that might be an angle to make it more attractive.

[Mellack]

I also don't think that feats really is the best way to run making magic items. An ASI could give you a +1 modifier to your stat of choice. For a fighter type raising strength that could be +1 to hit, damage, a save and athletics. For dexterity that can be +1 to hit, damage, a save, AC, init, skills. Instead they get a feat that lets them make a weapon that gives +1 to hit and damage? Doesn't seem a good trade.

Edit: Joe above has a fairly decent idea of how to work it as a feat. Just one feat, not a feat chain.

[Rotsu]

Sounds good guys! I just told him that if he wanted, he could take the feats and get +1 to a stat of his choice and find the blueprints for the item, he still needs to quest for more rare materials but it should be a nice in-between. Otherwise I'll just follow what Joe said
Thanks Everyone!
Rotsu.