Help with Multiclassing Ideas for Rogue

[Matwal1]

Hey, I am doing a new 5e campaign and right now am a Drow Rogue LvL 3 going into the Assassin Archetype. Im thinking of going up to level 8 or 10 then taking three levels of Fighter to get Champion Archetype so that I can take the multi attack and then going up to 17 Assassin. Does this sound ideal? My character is a Neutral character who is working for Drow house to scout the surface and learn the ways/find places worth hitting. Im trying to figure out the path I want to take. My stats so far are 12 Str, 17 Dex, 13 Con, 15 Int, 13 Wis, 16 Cha. I like to sneak and backstab or get the sneak with my hand crossbow. I also like the ability to manipulate or talk my way out of things. Im also trying to decide if at level 4 should I get Dex to 18 and Con to 14 or take the Alert Feat because I know there will be a lot of hidden enemies up ahead soon. Any tips or ideas are grateful!

[lunaticfringe]

You might check out Swashbuckler if you have access Sword Coast Adventure's Guide. It synergizes well with Facey high Cha Rogues. Also I have played all official Rogue Archetypes Assassin is on the meh end of the Rogue Scale for me though pulling off Surprise rounds is deeply satisfying. I would probably go battle master for my fighter levels for more dirty tricks.

You can grab a feat at 4 with no prob.

[joaber]

I would go for Dex 18 + Con 14, easily. Or get crossbow expert + sharpshooter. Archer fighting style is a must have in that case, but you will care less for sneak attack with the -5 +10, you'll want more attacks.
If I multiclassed as fighter (it is a good option), I would be battlemaster, the 19 roll is too situational. And definetly would stay until lvl 5, at least for extra attack.
assassin lvl 17 feature is a trap

[bid]

Action surge is a must for assassin, without it it's weak.
Champion is pointless for assassin, you already auto-crit on surprise. BM offers much more (precision attack works great with SS, and riposte can give you a second SA).
You won't get extra attack until fighter 5, but it's worth it because you won't need TWF anymore.

I second going swashbuckler if you are mostly melee.

Monk, PHB/hunter or bladelock are other choices for extra attack, each with its own flavor.
If you have access to UA, I would also look at fighter/scout (classic revisited) or ranger / deep stalker conclave (revised ranger).

[Matwal1]

Ill have to ask about other books for now Ill assume I cant use the others. So IF I do BM and Assassin what level should I pause or stop at assassin and start getting BM?

[lunaticfringe]

Rogue 4 is a good break point. If you are going to go Fighter 5 or 6 for Extra Attack (or Xtra attack + 3 Feats/Asi) I would start in on fighter right away so as not to delay Extra Attack any further, your Dex is fine and your feats/asi will be great by character level 10

[Talionis]

Consider Shadow Monk. It's great help for stealth and can get you the extra attack.

[bid]

Ill have to ask about other books for now Ill assume I cant use the others. So IF I do BM and Assassin what level should I pause or stop at assassin and start getting BM?
You want BM 5 for extra attack. Beyond that, rogue has better features.

If you ever reach level 20, fighter 6 is better than rogue 15, since you can grab resilient (Wis) earlier and end up the same way.
Maybe BM 7 for 5d10 SD instead of 4d8 SD, but you lose blindsense for that.

My 2 waypoints would be rogue 3 / fighter 2, then rogue 7 / fighter 5 because uncanny dodge / expertise / evasion are too valuable. By then you're level 12 and should have a good feel for the value of SD.
Then rogue 8-10-12 are ASI, you don't need fighter 6. I prefer SA dice to better SD, but it's too close to pick.


SCAG is official, but the unearthed arcana are experimental. Your DM might find them acceptable though.


EDIT: lunaticfringe is another good way, rogue 4 would fix Dex/Con. No point in getting SS before archery style.

[Matwal1]

The only reason he may say no is because it is a lot of new players and I think he is sort of new at DM so might want less books to have to look through. But okay just so I can map this out. Would it be ok to go Rogue 4 and get Alert Feat and then get Fighter to 5 then do rest into Rogue? And if I do that when I hit Fighter 4 should I get another feat or should I raise my stats? I was wanting to get the alert feat so that I could get that first hit in on every fight and I know my DM likes to have things hide behind doors as we enter and things like that and I am usually one of the first through. I looked into doing Shadow Monk but it seemed like a lot of his Features would be wasted on me because I would be using Weapons and Armor. But Idk if I was reading the stuff correctly.

[bid]

I was wanting to get the alert feat so that I could get that first hit in on every fight and I know my DM likes to have things hide behind doors as we enter and things like that and I am usually one of the first through. I looked into doing Shadow Monk but it seemed like a lot of his Features would be wasted on me because I would be using Weapons and Armor.
Yeah, you don't even have Wis14 to match studded armor, but shortsword is perfect rogue/monk.

Alert is... overrated IMO. You're likely enough to go first with Dex18.
Alert doesn't help to gain surprise and your DM won't give it often when you have to open a door. Enough to spice it up, but not to overshadow the others. You should see how your DM handles it before you reach level 4 and pick your ASi/feat.

[Matwal1]

What is ASI btw? and you don't think the +5 Initiative bonus would be worth with Assassinate so that I can have advantage on attack rolls against a creature that hasn't take a turn yet? Would you just recommend going straight into the 5 Fighter then? Or should I do the 4 Rogue get my Dex to 18 and maybe Con or Wis to 14 and then go into either fighter or monk at that point? Cause 14 Wis would be enough for 15 AC with Unarmored Defense in Monk.

[Matwal1]

Also I talked to DM and he said I can use Swashbuckler or any of those extra classes. So my ideal character would be one that can hold his own and dish out a lot of damage and also be able to be stealthy and get out of sticky situations easier than others. So what would be the ideal class or classes for that? My DM said I could reroll my character since I just started the campaign at level 3 with everyone else. I would Love to stay a Drow at least just because I've liked Dark Elves in every universe or game I play. I just want something that can be the forward scout or assassin of the group and disarm traps with the ability to smooth talk or deceive. But the talking or deceiving isnt that important if I cant get it to work.

[lunaticfringe]

Ability Score Increase, technically Feats are an optional rule in 5e. You get an Ability Score Increase at Rogue 4 and with Feats in play you trade that ASI for a Feat instead.

Alert would synergize with Assassinate BUT you are spending a limited resources to make Yourself Super Awesome at what? The first round of Combat. Most rounds of combat aren't a Surprise or Round 1. Mobile, Observant, Lucky, Dungeon Delver, Skulker are all great for scouting Rogues. Shield Master is Amazing for sword & board Rogue/Fighters but that would be better after Extra Attack and grabbing Expertise in Athletics Attack>Knock Prone>Sneak Attack (if you are Proficient in Athletics, if not disregard).

[Matwal1]

Alright so should I go 4 rogue and increase Dex? And then take 3 Fighter?

[Arkhios]

Alright so should I go 4 rogue and increase Dex? And then take 3 5 Fighter?

That's how I would do it if I were you. Also, fixed that for you because you said you wanted "multiattack" which (pedantic as I may be) is monster ability, while Extra Attack is the class feature you want from fighter along with BM maneuvers. But Extra Attack doesn't come until 5th Fighter level.

[Specter]

Your three best bets are:

Fighter 6 - fighting style, second wind to last longer, action surge to make the most out of your surprise, extta attack and an extra ASI.
The archetype will depend on what you want. Champion is moot with autocrit, but outside of surprise it's still good. Battlemaster helps to hit more, and some other things too.
Eldritch Knight makes you more defensive, and can give you nice tools like Find Familiar.

Ranger 5 - another skill, nature bonuses, favored enemy, fighting style, damaging spells (hunter's mark is a staple), extra attack and the almighty Pass Without Trace for a +10 bonus to stealth.
The archetype is up to preference. Hunter can give you an extra d8 of damage every turn, or another attack two adjacent foes. Beastmaster gives you a pet (which will suck unless you're a Revised Ranger).

Bard 6 - Bardic inspiration, social and exploration spells, jack of all trades and more expertise.
The college will define you. Valor for extra attack and better weapons, and lore for magical secrets (pick a SCAG cantrip for more damage).

[Matwal1]

What about Shadow Monk 6? How would 4 Rogue and then raise Wis, Dex by 1 and go up to Monk 6 for Shadow Monk abilities plus the Extra Attack Feat. Or would fighter just be the way to go?

[Matwal1]

Oh and for the ranger subclass I heard there was a good one in one of the other books. Which one is that? I think it's martial or something

[joaber]

If you will use ranged weapons, warlock could be nice too. You can use the bonus cha from drow, get devil's sight+darkness combo, pact of blade for extra ttack. And if youcan use UA invocations, there is a nice convert spellslot in damage with longbow.

[Matwal1]

I prefer melee most of time but I will use range every now and then. I'm wanting a class that can sneak well and be ok I'm fights if he ever gets in a 1v1 or something.

[joaber]

I prefer melee most of time but I will use range every now and then. I'm wanting a class that can sneak well and be ok I'm fights if he ever gets in a 1v1 or something.
I would for fighter than. You couls pick mobile feat for attack get out and hide. Or ripose from battlemaster, sneak attack with reaction can increase your damage a lot.

But rogue/shadow monk is a really nice build too.

[Arkhios]

with the parameters being melee, and good at sneaking, there are a few great options for you.

Shadow Monk 6+ would get you Extra Attack and two sub-class features which are quite useful for a rogue of any kind. (If you want to take it to the best possible combination (in my opinion), Monk 14/Rogue 6 would be my suggestion: 4 x skills with expertise, and proficiency with ALL saving throws.)

Ranger 6 (Revised); anything but Beast Master if only 6 levels would be good too. +4 extra damage for a bunch of different creature types, advantage on initiative, pretty alright spells up to 2nd level, a fighting style (defense, dueling, or maybe even two-weapon fighting, depending on the style you prefer); unless, of course, if you don't want spells and your DM is okay with combining the latest revised ranger with one of the earlier Unearthed Arcana options for a no-spell ranger (as far as I know, it doesn't have a real name), it does get the combat superiority and an ability to create potion-like poultices to be used for healing, instead of spellcasting.

Fighter (I'd say at least 6 levels for extra attack and the one additional Ability Score Increase you get from Fighter 6); just because you're a fighter doesn't mean you couldn't remain a sneaky fighter. Battle Master maneuvers benefit from either your strength or dexterity (your choice). And you'd get a fighting style from the very first level, which is pretty nice.

Bard (Valor) 6 is also quite good for a rogue. Let's say an even split: rogue 10/bard 10, and you would get 8 skills with expertise, 5th level spells, extra attack, and two spells of your choice up to 5th level could be from any list. You could pretty much tailor your spell list the way you would benefit the most. This is especially good for you since you have amazing charisma already. Also, jack of all trades would mean that your other skills wouldn't be bad either, because you would add half your proficiency bonus on ability checks you're not proficient with. And this includes initiative check which is a dexterity check!

[Specter]

What about Shadow Monk 6? How would 4 Rogue and then raise Wis, Dex by 1 and go up to Monk 6 for Shadow Monk abilities plus the Extra Attack Feat. Or would fighter just be the way to go?

Eh, I don't like the fact that your nicest ability relies on the lighting of the place. But sure, it could work.


Oh and for the ranger subclass I heard there was a good one in one of the other books. Which one is that? I think it's martial or something

Deep Stalker? It's good for an Assassin.

[bid]

Also I talked to DM and he said I can use Swashbuckler or any of those extra classes. So my ideal character would be one that can hold his own and dish out a lot of damage and also be able to be stealthy and get out of sticky situations easier than others. So what would be the ideal class or classes for that? My DM said I could reroll my character since I just started the campaign at level 3 with everyone else. I would Love to stay a Drow at least just because I've liked Dark Elves in every universe or game I play. I just want something that can be the forward scout or assassin of the group and disarm traps with the ability to smooth talk or deceive. But the talking or deceiving isnt that important if I cant get it to work.
Now, there are too many possible choices. You have to pick a flavor, an roleplaying concept. As of now, you want a Drow scout.

Swashbuckler has great mobility, can SA without advantage, and you'd get a +6 to initiative. Easy to get out of hairy situations. Uncanny dodge at rogue 5 is important.

Since you start as rogue 3, you won't get extra attack until level 8, maybe 10 if you need uncanny dodge early. That can be far in the future, you should pick something that is fun now, even if it means staying rogue all the way.


From a pure flavor POV, you want ranger for the natural explorer feature and scouting spells. Your low Wis has little impact. If your DM allows UA RevisedRanger, deep stalker is more tasty.

Battlemaster trades this for maneuvers, you want riposte for out-of-turn SA. Precision attack can help when you use a bow, paired with sharpshooter, but you may prefer crossbow expert. Not a lot of flavor here.

Bard is just as flashy as swashbuckler. It's also a full caster. Bardic inspiration is nice but you get extra attack one level later at bard 6.

Bladelock only adds extra attack in melee and SA won't work with cantrips. But invocations such as mask of many faces might interest you.

Monk AC is too low with your Wis. Otherwise it'd be a good fit.


I would go swashbuckler 14 / deep stalker 6, or hunter 6 if it doesn't work. That seems the best fit with your concept. If you stop at level 10, you'd be rogue 5 / ranger 5 which is fun. This assumes I interpreted your interests correctly, you should check the other choices.

[Matwal1]

Alright so Ive been reading up on it all closer and thank you everyone for your help btw! Im liking the idea of Swashbuckler and Deepstalker. The only thing is how would I explain I am a Swashbuckler from the Underdark? I want it to make sense from a RP stand point also. If that doesn't work I can just stick to Assassin and Deepstalker or go with Assassin/Fighter. But Ive narrowed it down to these options. I think the Monk wouldnt be able to fit for me just because of how monks backgrounds are. I'll figure something out with the Swashbuckler and deepstalker I read into them both a bit more.

So if I do Swashbuckler and Deepstalker which should I level up first? I can reroll my whole character so what would you recommend me getting levels/stats/skills in first?

[bid]

So if I do Swashbuckler and Deepstalker which should I level up first? I can reroll my whole character so what would you recommend me getting levels/stats/skills in first?
What do you want to be, how do you want to grow?
You seem to be saying swashbuckler is not a good fit for what you were and should be how you will change over time. That's the kind of narrative you want to build.

Starting ranger 3 is good enough. Str save is less useful than Int save and you'll end up with 7 skill proficiencies instead of 8. If you want to get the most, start rogue 1 then ranger 2 but it's no big loss.

Remember that you can pick and choose from any backgrounds, they are just samples to help you define your character. For instance, you might prefer to adjust the ideal / bond / flaw from acolyte to represent the faction for whom your spy / scout.

You should also find the background feature that matches your concept:
- false identity from charlatan,
- contacts from criminal or its spy variant,
- wanderer from outlander.
Those 3 can work as scout features.

Same thing for skill / tools / languages. You have 6 skills (1 racial, 2 background, 3 ranger). That's deception, investigation, perception, stealth and survival with a last one for flavor. Natural explorer doubles up your Int/Wis skills. You'll get a 7th skill when you MC into rogue, delay athletics until then and give it expertise to shove enemies.

You must choose 2 tools or languages beyond racial elvish and rogue's thieve's tools. Pick a musical instrument or gaming set for flavor and maybe a disguise kit proficiency. You could also start with thieve's tools, when you MC rogue you'll be able to pick another tool proficiency since you already have it.


Now go destroy this canvas with your creativity!:smallsmile: