Do you think its appropriate to use modern swears in DND?

[TheCrowing1432]

This is always something that ive wondered about from a roleplaying perspective. In the Medieval Fantasy setting that DND generally takes place in, does it make sense to have a character say "F off, F you" or to even throw up a middle finger.


Some swears such as *B*tard* refer to ones birth status and arent really a swear.

What do you guys think?

[Regitnui]

In universe: Translation Convention. Obviously the character's saying a word of equal vehemence or a gesture of equal obscenity, like the word for "cheese" in Common can't be "cheese".

Out of universe: Depends on the table. My players swear an awful lot, especially right after the recurring enemies show up with more minions and more HP.

[Ninja_Prawn]

In universe: Translation Convention. Obviously the character's saying a word of equal vehemence or a gesture of equal obscenity, like the word for "cheese" in Common can't be "cheese".

Out of universe: Depends on the table. My players swear an awful lot, especially right after the recurring enemies show up with more minions and more HP.

This is a good way to approach it. However, the context you're playing in might change your priorities. For example, I do a lot of play-by-post on this forum, where modern swears obviously aren't allowed and you also have more time to compose posts. Therefore I try to use slightly more authentic-sounding language.

[NNescio]

This is always something that ive wondered about from a roleplaying perspective. In the Medieval Fantasy setting that DND generally takes place in, does it make sense to have a character say "F off, F you" or to even throw up a middle finger.


Some swears such as *B*tard* refer to ones birth status and arent really a swear.

What do you guys think?

It would be used as an insult against actual bastards, or people who are 'suspected' of being bastards (even if it's mere 'unacceptable' behavior), because of the connotations of low birth.

The F-word (bah, GitP word censor) had vulgar connotations even far back then, 'though it was significantly more taboo and wasn't as 'creatively'-used in modern speech (where it can be often used in situations with zero sexual connotation). One of the earliest written use of the word (as a derogatory nickname with heavily implied sexual connotation) can be found in the name of an Englishman called Roger Fuc*ebythenavele (cited in English court records in the early 14th century).

The middle finger was used as a as a rude gesture of contempt (and as a phallic gesture) even by the Ancient Greeks. This was extensively 'documented' in Ancient Greek plays and historical records/philosophical records such as the Discourses of Epictetus.

'though really, all of this is moot to some extent, as the translation convention is assumed to be in play when players are speaking in current Modern English. When a player curses in Modern English, it is assumed his character is using the cultural equivalent in Common or whichever language is character happens to be speaking. Because really, nearly nobody (baring some dedicated English majors) can speak in Middle English after all (heck, Common isn't even English or any known Earth language), which sounds more similar to German than to English.

It's the same reason why King Arthur (let us ignore Arthurian legends are also rather anachronistic for a moment here) in most fictional portrayals speaks mostly Modern English (or whichever local language the work of fiction is in), not Latin or Old English or Middle English. You're not a dedicated language major, you can't speak that language, and even if you can, most of the table can't understand you anyway.

I mean, sure, you can attempt to mix in some Early Modern English/Shakespearean/King James Bible English for that 'olde-time feel', but strictly speaking this is anachronistic (for a Medieval period) and most people tend to very bad at Early Modern English grammar (most common mistake is by adding -eth -th -st to first-person verbs, where they don't belong), so eh, just speak Modern English normally.

(Unless the character is supposed to be speaking in a more archaic variety of Common compared to his peers. Inserting some Early Modern English phrases and grammatical constructions here would then make sense -- the translation convention conveys the character is speaking in a more archaic version of the language spoken by the use of more archaic English phrases and grammar in the translation.)

[War_lord]

The first recorded use of a certain "F" word was in 1310, as part of a criminal's nickname. A certain vulgar word for female private parts dates back to before 1230, in fact it was a technical term for hundreds of years before it picked up the status of being considered super offensive. Bastard, as you pointed out, is a swear word not because of the word itself, but because in the past accusing a man of being born out of wedlock was a serious charge against both him and his mother. Various terms for the male genitals are as old as language itself.

The only swear words that I think would qualify as anachronistic are a certain derivative of the "F" word involving mothers, which comes from African-American slang. And any swear derived from "Ass", as using ass as a word for buttocks is an Americanism.

Overall though, I don't think modern swears in D&D is inappropriate, unless you're at a table of people who find swearing inappropriate socially. I mean, if we want to get technical, speaking English in D&D is "inappropriate" since D&D's Common probably sounds totally different. Just apply translation convention.

The thing I do hate is when DM's use Acronyms. Don't call your setting's alliance between Elves and Dwarves the AFPP (Alliance for Peace and Prosperity) call it the "Greensilver pact" or the "Treaty of Stonebarrow". Acronyms used in that fashion are a super modern thing.

I mean, you could do the Dark Souls thing and have characters who are notably old or old fashioned use faux "ye olde English", but I wouldn't see it as mandatory.

[Blacky the Blackball]

I know that some people find using modern language (including modern swear words) jarring, but to be honest I find the flowery faux-Shakespearean that many people use when they try to talk "like their character would" to be far more jarring and artificial.

Yes, we talk in modern English and our characters don't. Just relax and accept it, and take it as read that the characters are expressing the same sentiments in their own vernacular that we are expressing in ours.

[Dappershire]

I don't think there is anything wrong with swearing. Especially if they are otherwise true to character.
If you are feeling nitpicky, you can always make up a fantasy based reason why certain swear words exist in world, and pepper these history lessons through your campaign.

"Archmage Alexander Phu** had much skill in the spells of cloning. He had spent many of the past years working on ways to live forever. Long, lonely years. Long story short, his apprentice walked in on his master at the wrong time, with the wrong clone."

[nickl_2000]

Appropriateness aside, I think it's a waste to use modern swear words in a D&D campaign. There are so many better and more color options from Shakespearean times.

"Vile Cur"
"Come, come, you froward and unable worms!"
“Poisonous bunch-backed toad! “
“Thine face is not worth sunburning.”
“Thou art a boil, a plague sore”

And so, so many others that are out there.

[Dappershire]

Appropriateness aside, I think it's a waste to use modern swear words in a D&D campaign. There are so many better and more color options from Shakespearean times.

"Vile Cur"
"Come, come, you froward and unable worms!"
“Poisonous bunch-backed toad! “
“Thine face is not worth sunburning.”
“Thou art a boil, a plague sore”

And so, so many others that are out there.


True, but its a pet peeve of mine to watch players play outside their Stats. I don't need to see someone following it religiously, but if you dump wisdom, you shouldn't be remembering those poet's lines. If you dumped intelligence, you should be able to make a biting remark. But a high enough Charisma, and even a simple "I F'ed your mum" can get a Dragon frothing.

Although I have found in certain settings, they have their own rude hand gestures. In FR, its touching the thumb and pinky together.

As far as words go, I've always been fond of "Troglodyte"...if you're gonna be rude, might as well be racist too, right?

[Cybren]

The first recorded use of a certain "F" word was in 1310, as part of a criminal's nickname. A certain vulgar word for female private parts dates back to before 1230, in fact it was a technical term for hundreds of years before it picked up the status of being considered super offensive. Bastard, as you pointed out, is a swear word not because of the word itself, but because in the past accusing a man of being born out of wedlock was a serious charge against both him and his mother. Various terms for the male genitals are as old as language itself.

The only swear words that I think would qualify as anachronistic are a certain derivative of the "F" word involving mothers, which comes from African-American slang. And any swear derived from "Ass", as using ass as a word for buttocks is an Americanism.

Overall though, I don't think modern swears in D&D is inappropriate, unless you're at a table of people who find swearing inappropriate socially. I mean, if we want to get technical, speaking English in D&D is "inappropriate" since D&D's Common probably sounds totally different. Just apply translation convention.

The thing I do hate is when DM's use Acronyms. Don't call your setting's alliance between Elves and Dwarves the AFPP (Alliance for Peace and Prosperity) call it the "Greensilver pact" or the "Treaty of Stonebarrow". Acronyms used in that fashion are a super modern thing.

I mean, you could do the Dark Souls thing and have characters who are notably old or old fashioned use faux "ye olde English", but I wouldn't see it as mandatory.
I feel some of this, sometimes overly contemporary speech takes me out of games, but this is more of a tonal thing. Modern informal english might be appropriate in a game meant to evoke movies like The Fast and the Furious in tone, despite having different subject matter, while using semi-archaic formal english might give the setting the feel of a prestige drama. Though, since we're being nitpcikers, that's an abbreviation, not an acronym. Acronyms are abbreviations that you pronounce as if they were a word, not just any initialism.

[nickl_2000]

True, but its a pet peeve of mine to watch players play outside their Stats. I don't need to see someone following it religiously, but if you dump wisdom, you shouldn't be remembering those poet's lines. If you dumped intelligence, you should be able to make a biting remark. But a high enough Charisma, and even a simple "I F'ed your mum" can get a Dragon frothing.

Although I have found in certain settings, they have their own rude hand gestures. In FR, its touching the thumb and pinky together.

As far as words go, I've always been fond of "Troglodyte"...if you're gonna be rude, might as well be racist too, right?

Very true, then you need to roleplay it to the best of your characters ability. If you are not intelligent you drop an insult that doesn't make a lot of sense, and then get a very proud look on your face while the enemy looks onto you in confusion

[NecroDancer]

World like our good friend the "F-word" are canonical conisidered "ancient Teifling jargon" as well as any word like "tubular", "zany", "televions", "radio", etc.

[Joe the Rat]

Of course it's inappropriate! Players have to swear in Quendi or Westron or Kuduk, since that's all we speak when we play.

Snark aside, I think you have an interesting topic, but a poor read. You asked about modern swears - new terms, or of particularly variant modern usage. And that's where it gets interesting.

Troll. Nerd. Jock. Asshat. Hipster. Colorful uses of adult entertainment terminology. Political derogation of choice. These are the things you should be thinking about. Not just as "are neologisms appropriate?" but "is there a setting appropriate read or alternative?"

[Simetra Irertne]

Swearing out of character, just out of anger when rocks fall, is perfectly fine. What are you going to do about it anyway. Swearing at someone, specifically in character, should be done in an appropriate tone for the game. Insults, especially, should be dependent on the receiving creature. I think the way your character reacts to stress or surprise could be another way to express his/her personality. For example, a dwarf might speak common among others, but swear in dwarven.

[War_lord]

I feel some of this, sometimes overly contemporary speech takes me out of games, but this is more of a tonal thing. Modern informal english might be appropriate in a game meant to evoke movies like The Fast and the Furious in tone, despite having different subject matter, while using semi-archaic formal english might give the setting the feel of a prestige drama.

But most of our swear words actually date to the Middle Ages. People back then swore and used slang just as much as people nowadays do. The idea that people in the Middle Ages were all stuffy and formal is an artifact of Victorian Romanticism,not reality.

[Cybren]

But most of our swear words actually date to the Middle Ages. People back then swore and used slang just as much as people nowadays do. The idea that people in the Middle Ages were all stuffy and formal is an artifact of Victorian Romanticism,not reality.

Tone isn't about accuracy, and the average medieval peasant wouldn't be the main character in a prestige drama

[War_lord]

Tone isn't about accuracy, and the average medieval peasant wouldn't be the main character in a prestige drama

Unless your "tone" is a comedy, everyone talking like its a Ren Fair is just counterproductive. People back then, even Nobles, swore all time.

[Stan]

I'm fine with it. It's the translational equivalent. I don't pretend that my worlds are the middle ages with feudalism and knights but which happen to have super powerful magic - they are an entirely different world with some aspects of their tech on par with the middle ages or renaissance. Swearing is nigh universal and is at least thousands of years old so a world with humans should have swearing. Unless you're hardcore and expect everyone at the table to speak old French, there's no need to make them use archaic terms for swearing.

Forsooth, do you grok my jive, me hearties?

[Cybren]

Unless your "tone" is a comedy, everyone talking like its a Ren Fair is just counterproductive. People back then, even Nobles, swore all time.

You appear to be missing my point, and also unaware of how audience expectation and cultural shorthands work in storytelling

[Sigreid]

It's been said but I think it's fair to assume there would be equivalent vulgar language and there's really no need to invent them. Unless your group wants to for fun.

[Beleriphon]

Of course it's inappropriate! Players have to swear in Quendi or Westron or Kuduk, since that's all we speak when we play.

Snark aside, I think you have an interesting topic, but a poor read. You asked about modern swears - new terms, or of particularly variant modern usage. And that's where it gets interesting.

Troll. Nerd. Jock. Asshat. Hipster. Colorful uses of adult entertainment terminology. Political derogation of choice. These are the things you should be thinking about. Not just as "are neologisms appropriate?" but "is there a setting appropriate read or alternative?"

I tend to operate on the same level as The Witcher. There is a great deal of naught language in the game, ranging from ploughing to using the F-word to achieve the same meaning.

You have to remember that a tremendous amount of modern bad language is the same stuff ancient cultures said in their own languages. The ruins of Pompeii still have graffiti on them. Here's a link to the known list:
Grafitti tagged Rome (http://www.pompeiana.org/Resources/Ancient/Graffiti%20from%20Pompeii.htm)

So, people are using naughty language for the same things since well there's been language and naughty things to say. The specific words aren't important so much as the intent.


I mean, you could do the Dark Souls thing and have characters who are notably old or old fashioned use faux "ye olde English", but I wouldn't see it as mandatory.

Marvel does the same thing with Thor. Thor even gets his (her still?) own font, to emphasize the fact that Thor speaks in an archaic and weird manner. Marvel 1602 goes even farther and has Thor's dialogue being a Norse rune like font, and even more archaic speak patterns than the Elizabethan play style of normal Thor.

[Draco4472]

If you've seen anything of the Witcher fantasy universe, which is more of a medieval setting with some fantasy elements as opposed to a magical world with medieval society or flavoring, f*** and a** are thrown about all the time.

But this would solely depend on the DM or whoever created the setting whether people use swears like these.

[2D8HP]

I think in-character swearing is the very essence of role-playing (or at least as close to real role-playing as I get)!

Some examples:


In oD&D Clerics had to have either Law or Chaos as their alignment, never "Neutrality", most chose Law.
How did this actually play out? To illustrate; The scene:
A dank almost crypt like basement/garage during the waning years of the Carter Administration, two pre-teens and some teenagers surround a ping pong table, that has books, papers, dice, pizza and sodas on it
The characters:
Swingy McStabbySword - Fighter,
Sparky McBigBooms - Magic User,
and
Turny McUndeadaway - Cleric:
The scene within a scene: Private room at village Inn "The Inn":
Sparky: Time to pay our tavern tab methinks (authentically like medieval style dialogue)
Swingy: Aw dude that sucks, I won't have enough left to get that awesome plate armor forsooth (again real authentically medieval speachifyin' that's just how we rolled),
Sparky: Hey lets just sneak out and bail on the tab methinks in truth.
Swingy: Ye spake most awesomely, that would be badass!
Turny:Hark! If you do that I can't hang with you dudes!
Swingy: Verily it sucketh to be ye then!
Sparky: Don't let the door hit ye!
Swingy: Hey! How will we survive the Dungeon without Turny, hark ye etc.?
Sparky: Dude! We will loot the village instead! That will be way safer methinks!
Swingy: Awesome! Um.. thou spake most badass!.....

Swingy and Sparky went on to live happily until they got smoked by pitchfork wielding villagers. Turny got help in building her chapel from the villagers, and lived happily until going to lay some smackdown on some Ghouls.:frown:
So what did we learn?
1) Fighters really like Plate Mail armor.
2) Magic Users can be jerks!
3) Sometimes Clerics must travel a lonely road.


In the waning months of the Clinton administration, when I started as an apprentice plumber, the foreman told me,, "Kid, you don't curse enough", "We're going to teach you to curse".
They did!

More recently, after stealing some ideas from being inspired by some other playgrounders, I've used blasphemy:

by Lolth's bright blue panties I hope to never see this swamp again!



Oh by Corellon Larethian's running mascara, I wanted to be a lover not a fighter! Here we go again

*muttering*
Oh by Elmister's ever wandering genitals, these kids will be the death of me!

*shouting*
Oh by Silvanus's sweaty sack where an I now!?

Sorry that I didn't properly introduce the gang to you Scales, but I'm a little more concerned with why I've blacked out exactly how I came to be wearing blue pajamas, when I haven't had a proper pint since I was defrosted, and just what in the name of Pelor's pectoral muscles is going on!


Captain Haddock from the Tintin comics has been inspiring:

Ouch! Billions-of-blue-blistering-boiled-and-barbecued-barnacles-in-a'thundering-typhoon! I'll-make-boots-out-of-you-guano-gatherering-gibbering-gallows-fodder-gangsters!

Damn you to the Abyss you two-timing Troglodytes!


As has Thundar the Barbarian from early 80's Saturday morning cartoons:

Demon dogs!

Sometimes context can make something seem like cussing:

(To a Medusa)
Hey bad hair day! You turn people into stone to keep them from fleeing your foul odor?!
Why don't you pick on someone closer to your age, you wrinkled, withered old crone!


(To fate)
So by fighting alongside them the reward is to be poisoned with magic?
Yet another tyrant.
No such thing as a good King!
Better to die a man than a...
*spits*
magician!

To truly role-play well it helps to study the work of such master-thespians as...
Charleton Heston:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWphqA1Slrw

[NePb]

I'm going to ignore the actual conversation here and throw in my two coppers.

I swear all the time as a player and DM. It is how I speak. Infact, it makes it really easy to play angry people. it can also add much levity to a situation. Depends on the table, all the guys I play with are grown men and do not care one iota about profanity. Rule is though, if said out loud, said in game so caution is required.

[Malifice]

Why are we applying real-world english linguistic history to a fantasy world?

It's like saying when they play Dungeons & Dragons in Scotland everyone talks like dwarfs.

Your characters aren't speaking English, they're speaking common. Each one of them almost certainly with different regional accents. When you use the F word, your character is using the equivalent for that word in common (or Elvish or dwarvish or draconic or whatever language he happens to be speaking at the time).

What a bizarre thread.

[Provo]

I like to mix normal insults with made-up/archaic ones. The normal insults help the language feel natural. The made up ones help you feel like part of the setting.

Also, one or two syllables make for a believable swear word (So Trog instead of troglodyte)

[Coidzor]

Depends on where you're playing and who you're playing around.

Also, how much you're married to trying to Speake Ye Olde Englishe.

[Tetrasodium]

In universe: Translation Convention. Obviously the character's saying a word of equal vehemence or a gesture of equal obscenity, like the word for "cheese" in Common can't be "cheese".

Out of universe: Depends on the table. My players swear an awful lot, especially right after the recurring enemies show up with more minions and more HP.

This yes. Take the Japanese word Kisama, It's regularly translated as you [appropriate slur and/or expletive]. The literal meaning is a very formal way of saying "you". The implied meaning is a very rude one you would say to your worst enemy or perhaps someone who has badly wronged you.

Unless you have a bunch of medieval literature/culture professors at your table, trying to use those expletives would be too confusing

Plus there is the fact that the eff word goes back to the 15th century & meant to push/thrust in middle dutch https://tinyurl.com/ypu8pl

[Spore]

In character? No, it's not appropriate. As a player? Absolute-****ing-lutely.