Are there any character races that you find OP from Elemental Evil/UA/Volo's Guide

[JMAP94]

Im a new DM, and i don't have that much experience with 5e, but i love the system's simplicity. That being said i'm a little anal about balance especially because we have new people who are joining in who have no idea how to min/max and i kind of want them to pick who they want to be without worrying too much about min/max. I was wondering, are there any races that you find particularly OP or UP from the supplemental materials such as Elemental Evil, Unearthed Arcana, and Volo's Guide based on your experiences? I'm particularly worried about some of the monstorous races, especially bugbear with a polearm.

[Foxhound438]

kobold is the only one, really, and only if you're never fighting outside during the day.

Bugbear with 15' reach is absolutely not op, if you want to ban something over having too much reach it's going to have to be ranged weapons.

[KorvinStarmast]

Nothing to like about any of the monster PCs in Volo's.. I have a particular distaste for trying to make a gnoll a PC. (I do like some of the additions to the gnoll as monster in Volo's, decent effort there).

I think we could make the orc and hobgoblin monster PC work in our group, but nobody wanted one.

Not sure if Volo style Aasimar took the DMG idea a step too far. Since we are not going to play them in our group (DM veto) I guess we won't find out.

Goliath: Being that big but not Large breaks verisimilitude for me. It's a valiant effort, but IMO not one worth making.

Firbolg: a bit too many features, out of balance with PHB races IMO.

The SCAG variants on Half Elf we talked about, but nobody was keen enough to play any of them. Meh, but not a bad try.

We liked Genesai. Hope they make it into a book at some point.

[JMAP94]

I believe there are genesai in elemental evil

[Garresh]

kobold is the only one, really, and only if you're never fighting outside during the day.

Bugbear with 15' reach is absolutely not op, if you want to ban something over having too much reach it's going to have to be ranged weapons.

Respectfully disagree on kobolds. They are strong, but hardly overpowered. You're also missing the massively OP yuan ti pureblood. It's not so OP that it necessarily warrants a ban, but it definitely outclasses any other race, and should be kept an eye on.

Yuan Ti Purebloods get poison immunity, suggestion as a racial spell, darkvision, AND advantage on *all* saving throws against magic. That last one is a 7th level paladin feature, and they get it as a racial. Basically they're nigh unkillable as far as spells are concerned. Seriously powerful.

On the bright side, they're also not as cooo as the more balanced races like Lizardfolk, Goblins, and Tabaxi.

Oh while I'm at it, Tabaxi aren't overpowered, but they do have one trick that you should know about just so you're not caught off guard. They get a sort of a free "dash" built into their movement. When they use it their speed doubles for 1 turn, no action required. Unlike other abilities, it recharges after one turn spent not moving. This makes them extremely hard to pin down. Again, not overpowered, but certainly different enough you should be aware of it when designing encounters.

[Crusher]

Respectfully disagree on kobolds. They are strong, but hardly overpowered. You're also missing the massively OP yuan ti pureblood. It's not so OP that it necessarily warrants a ban, but it definitely outclasses any other race, and should be kept an eye on.

Yuan Ti Purebloods get poison immunity, suggestion as a racial spell, darkvision, AND advantage on *all* saving throws against magic. That last one is a 7th level paladin feature, and they get it as a racial. Basically they're nigh unkillable as far as spells are concerned. Seriously powerful.

On the bright side, they're also not as cooo as the more balanced races like Lizardfolk, Goblins, and Tabaxi.

Oh while I'm at it, Tabaxi aren't overpowered, but they do have one trick that you should know about just so you're not caught off guard. They get a sort of a free "dash" built into their movement. When they use it their speed doubles for 1 turn, no action required. Unlike other abilities, it recharges after one turn spent not moving. This makes them extremely hard to pin down. Again, not overpowered, but certainly different enough you should be aware of it when designing encounters.

Doesn't their suggestion only work on Snakes, though?

[mgshamster]

There are only two that could be an issue:

Aarokocra from Elemental Evil Players Guide and the Winged Tiefling variant from SCAG.

Those are only an issue if you don't want to have flying PCs at level 1. Flight is typically not available to a PC until level 5. There are a lot of low level challenges that can be trivialized with flight.

However, if flight isn't an issue for you and you don't want to incorporate the types of challenges that can be easily solved with flight, then those two races won't be a problem.

The rest of the races are fairly well balanced.

[Breashios]

Im a new DM, and i don't have that much experience with 5e, but i love the system's simplicity. That being said i'm a little anal about balance especially because we have new people who are joining in who have no idea how to min/max and i kind of want them to pick who they want to be without worrying too much about min/max. I was wondering, are there any races that you find particularly OP or UP from the supplemental materials such as Elemental Evil, Unearthed Arcana, and Volo's Guide based on your experiences?...

This is going to be a difficult question for you. As you are new to 5e and seem to be indicating that some players would be very new, I would recommend doing something similar to what is done for AL.

Talk with any of your veteran players and see if together you can come to a consensus of just one or two (or even three sources, if necessary) of material in addition to the basic PHB. By sticking to that initially it will make your job easier.

Limiting options does not mean limiting fun. If you get a good agreement in your session 0, you can always loosen up as the campaign progresses or after a short campaign start another with options the players want to try.

Going the opposite way is more problematic. If you find a certain PC race (or size) does not fit with the political reality or feel you are trying to build, it will be harder to shoehorn that player's character into the story and get the full effect. You are kind of stuck with the options you allow for the most part until you start a new campaign.

The main thing is to talk with your players and find out what they are interested in. Although most of the players in our group are roleplaying veterans, our group is playing entirely with the races and classes in the PHB. I've sprinkled in some spells from PotA giving unique access to particular characters and we are having a ball. No one has expressed that they feel they've missed out on anything else so far.

You've got a lot to be responsible for - story, pacing, encounter balance, interesting challenges, character rewards... Let the players know your concerns and see what they think would be best given your own group.

[Ursus the Grim]

Doesn't their suggestion only work on Snakes, though?

No. They also get Poison Spray and Animal Friendship at will. The latter is the one that only works on snakes. Suggestion has no such limitation (though it isn't at-will).

[Waar]

Im a new DM, and i don't have that much experience with 5e, but i love the system's simplicity. That being said i'm a little anal about balance especially because we have new people who are joining in who have no idea how to min/max and i kind of want them to pick who they want to be without worrying too much about min/max. I was wondering, are there any races that you find particularly OP or UP from the supplemental materials such as Elemental Evil, Unearthed Arcana, and Volo's Guide based on your experiences? I'm particularly worried about some of the monstorous races, especially bugbear with a polearm.

The winged tiefling variant from the sword coast adventurer's guide, and the aarakocra from Ekemental evil can be too powerful.

I don't think any other has close to the same potential, but in general the monstrous ones in volo's have a large internal variance (bugbear is a lot better than orc, imo) but I think the better ones are not too crazy (bugbears and yuan-ti have very good abilities, but their ability score increases aren't quite as good as some others in most cases)

[MrFahrenheit]

Im a new DM, and i don't have that much experience with 5e, but i love the system's simplicity. That being said i'm a little anal about balance especially because we have new people who are joining in who have no idea how to min/max and i kind of want them to pick who they want to be without worrying too much about min/max. I was wondering, are there any races that you find particularly OP or UP from the supplemental materials such as Elemental Evil, Unearthed Arcana, and Volo's Guide based on your experiences? I'm particularly worried about some of the monstorous races, especially bugbear with a polearm.

Volo: I find the races al balanced. Most are done so by either having a feature redundant with the most obvious class choice, or a feature leading the player in one direction, but ability boosts leading in another. Don't worry about bugbear - I have one in my campaign. Unless your party somehow is always popping off surprise rounds after long rests...meh. And the extra reach isn't as powerful as you think, since it's only on the player's turn (doesn't apply to reactions). They're just as balanced as the rest, IMO.

EE: I haven't really used it all too much beyond the spells. IMO the races look fine. They may have taken a "page out of the aarakocra book" when they balanced volo - flight and talons seem to compete for class preference, deep gnome feat is a double edged sword (makes the character powerful, but also pretty much requires). YMMV.

UA: Dear heaven, no! Races are either OP or weak. In general, my subjective opinion is that UA is unbalanced and all over the place - heck, WOTC pretty much says so in the introduction to each one!

TL;DR: go with published material (and their official companion pdfs), but avoid UA.

[jaappleton]

My table doesn't allow any races with innate, at-will Flight.

No Yuan-Ti.

No Lore Wizard.

No Theurge Wizard.

Everything else is allowed, and nothing has been in the realm of "Whoa, this is too much." I played a Tempest Theurge for a bit, and I retired it myself after a few sessions. It was just too much.

[joaber]

I don't see nothing OP, but some combinayions of races+classes or specific campaings set can be OP. But many of those use UA classes or/and multiclass.

Like yuan-ti is great, but the non sinergy of cha+int gives him some balance. But with hexblade that use only cha for attack, this start the unbalance.
I'll DM a dungeon that has a poisonous gas that make characters avoid any rest, making they go in and out the faster they can. I don't know if a yuan ti would be OP in that dungeon, because the rest of the party suffer the poisonous effect. But an entire yuan-ti party wouldn't work. I could change the poison for acid too.

[Arkhios]

I believe there are genesai in elemental evil

Yeah, genasi are as official as the core races are, because the Elemental Evil Player's Companion is official supplement. Although, it would still be nice if those races would get into a book at some point. I have a bookshelf, and I'd like to fill it with ... you know, books. PDFs are kinda unhelpful in that regard. :smallbiggrin:

[rhouck]

Yuan Ti Purebloods get poison immunity, suggestion as a racial spell, darkvision, AND advantage on *all* saving throws against magic. That last one is a 7th level paladin feature, and they get it as a racial. Basically they're nigh unkillable as far as spells are concerned. Seriously powerful.


It is not the same as the Oath of Ancients feature. The paladin feature is resistance to spell DAMAGE, and it's also an aura that benefits allies.

The Yuan-Ti is as you started: advantage on spell saving throws. It's the equivalent of having the Mantle of Spell Resistance (which is an attunenent slot item).

Still very powerful and a great ability, but not quite the same.

[DanyBallon]

To OP:
Since you all seems new to 5e, I'd stick to core for this first campaign, so you all get the feel and see the power level of the game. Even when limiting to core, you have plenty of options to try.

After a few games/campaigns/level you may decide to open up material from other sources.

[Tetrasodium]

Im a new DM, and i don't have that much experience with 5e, but i love the system's simplicity. That being said i'm a little anal about balance especially because we have new people who are joining in who have no idea how to min/max and i kind of want them to pick who they want to be without worrying too much about min/max. I was wondering, are there any races that you find particularly OP or UP from the supplemental materials such as Elemental Evil, Unearthed Arcana, and Volo's Guide based on your experiences? I'm particularly worried about some of the monstorous races, especially bugbear with a polearm.

Not really no. There are some great races in volos, but none of them are of the 3.5 style "well if you want to be class X, you take race Y or maybe Z because of..." For example, someone mentioned kobold... Pack tactics is great & all, but all it takes to negate it is bright light. a druid can wildshape to avoid the light problem... but the stat adjustment for kobold is not particularly meaningful when it comes to casting (+2 dex/-2 str) & wildshape only gets extra attacks if the particular creature has more than one attack

[DragonSorcererX]

Only the Yuan-ti, the rest was okay... and these Firbolgs are stupid, they look nothing like the 3.X Badass Firbolgs, these guys look like a bunch of "Hodors", and I don't think a "Hodor" could kill a Titan like that Firbolg guy did in Forgotten Realms...

Also, Volo's Aasimar is the second most cool race (Dragonborn is the coolest because they are motherfluffing dragons)!

[Theodoxus]

It is not the same as the Oath of Ancients feature. The paladin feature is resistance to spell DAMAGE, and it's also an aura that benefits allies.

The Yuan-Ti is as you started: advantage on spell saving throws. It's the equivalent of having the Mantle of Spell Resistance (which is an attunenent slot item).

Still very powerful and a great ability, but not quite the same.

It's twice as powerful as the Gnome Cunning trait...

However, a Pureblood Yuan-ti Ancients Paladin would be quite amazingly powerful against casters... grab Mage Slayer for more fun... Advantage on all saves; half damage (1/4 damage on anything you save against) and reactions against spellcasters in your face...

[Specter]

Any race that can fly is immediately OP. I mean, some people were discussing Misty Step 1/short rest as OP, but flying without casting a spell and without concentration? No way.

[jaappleton]

Only the Yuan-ti, the rest was okay... and these Firbolgs are stupid, they look nothing like the 3.X Badass Firbolgs, these guys look like a bunch of "Hodors", and I don't think a "Hodor" could kill a Titan like that Firbolg guy did in Forgotten Realms...

Also, Volo's Aasimar is the second most cool race (Dragonborn is the coolest because they are motherfluffing dragons)!

Dragonborn need Darkvision, though. Its a damn crime they don't have it innately.

[Tetrasodium]

It's twice as powerful as the Gnome Cunning trait...

However, a Pureblood Yuan-ti Ancients Paladin would be quite amazingly powerful against casters... grab Mage Slayer for more fun... Advantage on all saves; half damage (1/4 damage on anything you save against) and reactions against spellcasters in your face...



It's not that simple. gnomes are int+2 & con or dex+1 with some other stuff & int+con/dex are useful to any int based class (ie wizards)/ yaunti are cha+2 int+1, a combination no class particularly evolves around. Yes they have a nice benefit, but +1 to a meaningful stat you even out from an odd for free & some other stuff is also a nice benefit. That says nothing about not potentially getting shot coming up to a town either.

[mgshamster]

To be fair, whether or not something is OP can depend heavily on the campaign.

For example, races that can fly at level 1 would not be OP in a game of biplanes vs dragons. :)

[DragonSorcererX]

Dragonborn need Darkvision, though. Its a damn crime they don't have it innately.

I agree, but they didn't had it in 3.5 and 4e... well, in my games they always have it anyways...

[Geodude6]

Yuan-Ti Pureblood from Volo's and Revenant from UA:TOBM. Yuan-Ti is resistant to magic and completely immune to poison, and Revenant gets the level 18 Champion class feature for free and also can't die.

[DragonSorcererX]

Yuan-Ti Pureblood from Volo's and Revenant from UA:TOBM. Yuan-Ti is resistant to magic and completely immune to poison, and Revenant gets the level 18 Champion class feature for free and also can't die.

Try to convince a DM to let you play that...

[War_lord]

Aarakocra from EE get inherent flight speed. Yuan-ti Purebloods are crazy powerful, but that's probably somewhat balanced out by being almost impossible for a player to justify taking outside of an evil campaign.

[Waazraath]

Disregarding UA, only the 2 races with flying might be OP (depending on the campaign). In an aquatic campaign, races like triton and water genasi are much stronger than other races (though instead of OP, it more is a reason to play one of these). Even with Volo and SCAG, people still play mostly PHB classes in my experience.

[Naanomi]

I'll echo what was said above mostly: at-will flight is problematic in many (but not all) campaigns; and yuan-ti purebloods are on the stronger end of races (but not in my opinion 'OP'). And UA stuff isn't a factor largely at my table l, but should be taken with the same caution of all playtest and homebrew material

My bar is usually 'variant Human', which in most campaigns are the 'default' race (setting wise), so as long as a race isn't clearly and extremely superior in some class choice or other role to V Human I'm ok with it

[Beelzebubba]

Another thing I'd consider beyond all the great advice above;

I'd limit the sources to the PHB plus ONE other source. Ideally for the entire group, but if you're permissive, allow them per character, but that character sticks to those sources forever.

The worst power abuses in 3/3.5E came from people combining abilities and feats from various sources that had unanticipated synergy.

[Naanomi]

Another thing I'd consider beyond all the great advice above;

I'd limit the sources to the PHB plus ONE other source. Ideally for the entire group, but if you're permissive, allow them per character, but that character sticks to those sources forever.

The worst power abuses in 3/3.5E came from people combining abilities and feats from various sources that had unanticipated synergy.
Although I haven't seen anything super-synergistic in this way yet in the (admittedly small pool of) resources available

[RickAllison]

Although I haven't seen anything super-synergistic in this way yet in the (admittedly small pool of) resources available

Indeed, though there are nice combos that are available that aren't OP but are different than with just the PHB. For example, a Bugbear Rogue using Booming Blade so enemies can't get really close without taking extra damage. Now you can do that anyway with Cunning Action Disengage, or Mobile, or Swashbuckler. All of those are available with just SCAG, but the Volo's race allows for putting the onus on the racials instead of feats or actions. Not OP, just different.

I think flying is seriously overestimated. Yes, a variant tiefling with Spell Sniper and Eldritch Spear is going to be able to tear apart anyone on the surface without means of reprisal except with siege weapons or dedicated armaments. But a demon flying a quarter of a mile into the air and unleashing a laser light show is VERY conspicuous. That is the kind of thing that makes superstitious locals tell tales throughout the markets of larger cities of demons raining fire upon the earth. That is how you get swathes of crusaders and hunters dedicated to taking them out...

[Naanomi]

Flying isn't generally as bad as it might seem, but is stronger than other racial options and can cause problems in making the 'exploration' pillar functional at low levels... and an entirely flying party makes a mess of exploration at higher levels as well.

Anyways, it can make enough of a problem that it is on *caution* status at the very least

[RickAllison]

Flying isn't generally as bad as it might seem, but is stronger than other racial options and can cause problems in making the 'exploration' pillar functional at low levels... and an entirely flying party makes a mess of exploration at higher levels as well.

Anyways, it can make enough of a problem that it is on *caution* status at the very least

Certainly. I think Tiefling variant may be a problem as the aarakocra at least trade everything for its flight. Nothing but flight, really (an unarmed attack that is mostly flavor, and decent ability choices). If anything, I would preclude the variant demon-child and change the aarakocra to have the barbarian eagle "flight" until level 5. At that point, Fly is available for those times when it would break puzzles and you start having access to magic items that do the same. The always-on of an aarakocra would still be powerful at that point, but anything that would break under flight already breaks at that level.

[Coidzor]

Another thing I'd consider beyond all the great advice above;

I'd limit the sources to the PHB plus ONE other source. Ideally for the entire group, but if you're permissive, allow them per character, but that character sticks to those sources forever.

The worst power abuses in 3/3.5E came from people combining abilities and feats from various sources that had unanticipated synergy.

That's not a factor yet, so currently doing so for that reason is more paranoia than constructive.

Now, doing it for the reason of gradually increasing the amount of material to have familiarity with makes a bit more sense, but, to be honest, that's really not as necessary in 5e as it was in 3e. Not even close, really.

Things are fairly straightforward except for weird edge cases and places where the rules conflict with how most people rationalize or conceive of things, and those are largely just in the base rules.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Yuan-Ti purebloods are strong but not broken, primarily because their attribute set up is inferior to the vast majority of PC races. If I was going to fix them, it's not the Magic Resistance I'd drop, it'd be the Suggestion.

Flying, though. If you're not careful that can wreck a campaign. It's not an insurmountable issue, but it definitely requires more work than other races to accommodate for the DM and can limit your options.

[The Shadowdove]

I find that it there are few situations where racial abilities could be so much of a problem that a DM should be concerned about balance. Especially given that DMs are given so much power to adjust things to suit the situation.

I understand banning flight at low levels and for ease of running a game or module that would otherwise be broken. Some DMs just cannot cope with the extra bit of complexity to combat and obstacles, and it is a huge advantage.

However, AL legality should speak for itself. If it's considered balanced enough to be in a setting so rule and balance specific it shouldn't be so worrisome that it merit being removed from a game altogether.

The direct opposite of the more obscure/monster race fanboys are those who cringe at the thought of anything that goes against their view of what should exist in a world. The same way people read the same book and get a different impression of a character or event, some people have a specific place in their world for certain races and themes. Then there are those who are indifferent or find the enjoyable aspect there within. Either way, it is up to the dm what suits their world or theme.

Personally, I'd allow anything AL legal at a homebrew table even with my limited AL experience. I prefer to give players the option to express themselves and attempt to delve into the complexities of playing races that will face certain prejudices or cultural aversion. If it inspires them I allow it.

However, I don't allow much in the way of mechanical fluff or homebrew. As it normally is means to opening a door to players wanting more buffs with little penalty and few justifications.

[Addaran]

Another thing I'd consider beyond all the great advice above;

I'd limit the sources to the PHB plus ONE other source. Ideally for the entire group, but if you're permissive, allow them per character, but that character sticks to those sources forever.

The worst power abuses in 3/3.5E came from people combining abilities and feats from various sources that had unanticipated synergy.

I really wouldn't put it for the entire group. It's very probable that the players would want different sources. If someone wants to play a genasi, the other player can't pick a volo's race and the sorcerer can't be a storm one.

[Luccan]

If you're going to limit it to one outside source, definitely allow players to pick their own. I'd also consider allowing EE for everyone since it's so short and adds some fun options, in addition to the PHB and their other source (UA, Volo, or SCAG).

[Dracul3S]

The worst power abuses in 3/3.5E came from people combining abilities and feats from various sources that had unanticipated synergy.

Not true. The worst abuse in actual games (not theorycrafting) came from people realising what core wizards, clerics and druids could do.

[Naanomi]

Not true. The worst abuse in actual games (not theorycrafting) came from people realising what core wizards, clerics and druids could do.
Meh sort of... in the 'unbalance between classes' sense, yes it was there (and as strong as ever) from stage one. In the larger sense, no one is ending an entire plane or getting every ability in every book on round 4 or their existence without multiple sourcebooks.

[Maxilian]

If you're going to limit it to one outside source, definitely allow players to pick their own. I'd also consider allowing EE for everyone since it's so short and adds some fun options, in addition to the PHB and their other source (UA, Volo, or SCAG).

I was thinking the same (mainly for the Spells given in EE as some class would have a big let down if they just can't acess them)

Note: Also guys the most OP races are in Volo's, we all know those are the Kobolds and Goblins...

Why? Just look at this

https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0357/39/1414246554293.png

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/dd/49/06/dd490609a751389b01ff0af119b91f9b.jpg

They are so CUTE!