Good 3 level Dip for unarmed build?

[khaldorgas]

Hello!

One of the campaigns i'm playing now, is in a nordic setting, and my char thinks he is Son of Thor! (maybe it can be true hehe)

Actually i'm at 5th level (playing since lvl 1), and we allow to use stuff from 3.5 and pathfinder.

I want to take 2 prestige classes, but i can enter only at 9th (bear Warrior), and other at 10th (Warshaper), and i dont know what i build between 6 and 8 :frown:



My build until now is:
Monk master of many styles 2 (dragon style and jabbing style) : Fuse styles
Brawler 2: Feats and damage progression
Barbarian 1 Spirit Totem Lion Variant (from CC 3.5): Pounce and Rage

Feats i have:
Jotunbrud
Superior Unarmed Strike
Improved Natural Attack:Unarmed Strike
Dragon Style
Dragon Ferocity
Jabbing Style.

Traits i have:
Heavy Hitter: +1 at unarmed damage
Reactionary: +2 Initiave

Status i have (i get some bonus in game)
STR: 23
DEX:16
CON: 18
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 14


This way i can full attack at charge dealing: Attack +9 / Dmg 4d6 +13 and +9/4d6+10 without rage
Next level i think to take Snap Kick feat


But i really dont know what can i do between 6 and 8 lvl.



I saw fist of the forest, but my lore isnt compatible. My DM said that if I made a new lore for class fist of the forest, that it made sense (both for the class to be powerful and for making sense of my character) I could take it without problems, but I have no ideas for such.

Do you recommend me some class/multiclass to dip or maybe ideas for another compatible concept of fist of the forest?


Thank you so much!

[ATHATH]

You could be a changeling and get into MoMF really early.

[Venger]

the handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?105525-3-5e-Being-Bane-Eldariel-s-Guide-to-Barbarians) might give you some ideas for prcs.

why isn't fist of the forest compatible with your guy? if your gm will let you refluff, it sounds like the best fit for your concept. let us know why you don't feel it's right and we can help refluff it


You could be a changeling and get into MoMF really early.

he's already level 5, human, and momf requires wild shape

[Gruftzwerg]

I would suggest swordbladesage unarmed variant to get some nice maneuvers.

Or if you have feats to spare: 3 lvls warlock + Eldritch Claws + Beast Strike to double your unarmed dmg (+ eldritch blast damage).

edit: another option would be Barb 1 with ACF Pounce and Drunken Master 2 for Stagger. Now you can charge in almost any situation due to unlimited direction changes while charging/pouncing.
edit2: since you already have Barb 1 with Pounce, add 1 lvl Swordsage to the 2 Drunken Master lvl instead to get some maneuvers and a stance.


edit3: corrected swordblade to swordsage, sry I seem to sleep again here^^

[Venger]

I would suggest swordblade unarmed variant to get some nice maneuvers.

Or if you have feats to spare: 3 lvls warlock + Eldritch Claws + Beast Strike to double your unarmed dmg (+ eldritch blast damage).

swordsage.

eldritch claws and beast strike are both dragon magazine. is that allowed in your campaign, khaldorgas?

[Grod_The_Giant]

I suggest flavoring the Fist of the Forest levels as being, basically, Bear Warrior apprentice levels. Both are all about being in touch with nature and channeling primal power when you rage and such; it's pretty easy to see "I get angry and grow fangs" as Bear Form lite.

Otherwise, more Barbarian isn't bad (nab Improved Trip via Wolf Totem Barbarian ACF, and maybe Trapkiller for some secondary utility), and a level of Scout never hurt a make-lots-of-attacks character.

[Venger]

I suggest flavoring the Fist of the Forest levels as being, basically, Bear Warrior apprentice levels. Both are all about being in touch with nature and channeling primal power when you rage and such; it's pretty easy to see "I get angry and grow fangs" as Bear Form lite.

Otherwise, more Barbarian isn't bad (nab Improved Trip via Wolf Totem Barbarian ACF, and maybe Trapkiller for some secondary utility), and a level of Scout never hurt a make-lots-of-attacks character.

That's a fine idea.

I'd advise a level or two of fighter over scout to keep his ba up, and this build is very feat-intensive

[Pugwampy]

Youre a monk why is your wisdom so stinky I was going to say cleric...

How about a sorcerer dip ? Mage armour will last you forever . :smallsmile:

Fighters is not bad for hp and attack bonus and feat.

[ATHATH]

the handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?105525-3-5e-Being-Bane-Eldariel-s-Guide-to-Barbarians) might give you some ideas for prcs.

why isn't fist of the forest compatible with your guy? if your gm will let you refluff, it sounds like the best fit for your concept. let us know why you don't feel it's right and we can help refluff it



he's already level 5, human, and momf requires wild shape
Whoops, sorry, wrong early-entry trick. 1 level of Totem Druid is the standard early-entry method for MoMF, as it gets a limited form of Wildshape at 1st level.

[Venger]

Whoops, sorry, wrong early-entry trick. 1 level of Totem Druid is the standard early-entry method for MoMF, as it gets a limited form of Wildshape at 1st level.

sure, again assuming dragon magazine is allowed. if wild shape ranger isn't quick enough, divine minion is the most popular choice.

[khaldorgas]

You could be a changeling and get into MoMF really early.

MoMF doesnt use my strengh, right?
Would not I be wasting a lot of my potential this way?


the handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?105525-3-5e-Being-Bane-Eldariel-s-Guide-to-Barbarians) might give you some ideas for prcs.
why isn't fist of the forest compatible with your guy? if your gm will let you refluff, it sounds like the best fit for your concept. let us know why you don't feel it's right and we can help refluff it

he's already level 5, human, and momf requires wild shape

Thanks Venger! This handbook has really nice ideas for prcs, but it seems that the best are fists of the forest, and bear warrior (lol) :smallbiggrin:

Let me tell my lore!
Udyr (my char) is the son of a woman who was considered the most beautiful in his village. She became pregnant, but there was no one to take on her son with her. She said that Thor had come, and that they fell in love. People in the village think she got involved with a jarl who already had a wife, and he did not want to take her. Udyr grows up by hearing stories about Thor and all the Gods, especially Thor. His mother had made him believe that his father was Thor, and that he had a destiny to tread, but he had to prepare himself. Before he was old enough to know the mission his father had imbued him, he would learn all the secrets of agriculture, harvest, and farm (Thor is God of Thunder, Strength, and Farms).

Now at 18, her mother says her next mission is to master the force, becoming the greatest warrior of her age. (Strength in the case is understood not only as physical strength, but courage, honor and such).

She gives him an amulet and dies next. (As if the amulet was the only thing that kept her alive all this time.)

The game begins with the Jarl calling all warriors and allied of the village, and telling them that other villages at north are being attacked by trolls and giants. Those able to fight should go to the front line, and a small group should infiltrate enemy territory to find out more about what was happening. (my party)

In fact, during the game, Udyr always carried a shovel and a hoe to teach farming techniques to all those who needed it.


But how does this story fit into the concept of a sacred forest champion? The difficult thing to do a new lore, is to find something that restrains me in the same way that the sacred fist restricts.


I am totally open to ideas, I would be very grateful if we found something that makes sense!


I would suggest swordbladesage unarmed variant to get some nice maneuvers.

Or if you have feats to spare: 3 lvls warlock + Eldritch Claws + Beast Strike to double your unarmed dmg (+ eldritch blast damage).

edit: another option would be Barb 1 with ACF Pounce and Drunken Master 2 for Stagger. Now you can charge in almost any situation due to unlimited direction changes while charging/pouncing.
edit2: since you already have Barb 1 with Pounce, add 1 lvl Swordsage to the 2 Drunken Master lvl instead to get some maneuvers and a stance.


edit3: corrected swordblade to swordsage, sry I seem to sleep again here^^
Eldritch Claws + Beast Strike is very nice, but a monk may not use eldritch claws as part of her flurry of blows, and i use brawler, by the houserule here, brawlers furry = Flurry of blows for effects and feats of 3.5 :smallsigh:

Swordsage seems a solid choice! (even if i dont take at 6th, will be good after)


swordsage.

eldritch claws and beast strike are both dragon magazine. is that allowed in your campaign, khaldorgas?

Yes Venger, its allowed!! :smallbiggrin:


I suggest flavoring the Fist of the Forest levels as being, basically, Bear Warrior apprentice levels. Both are all about being in touch with nature and channeling primal power when you rage and such; it's pretty easy to see "I get angry and grow fangs" as Bear Form lite.

Otherwise, more Barbarian isn't bad (nab Improved Trip via Wolf Totem Barbarian ACF, and maybe Trapkiller for some secondary utility), and a level of Scout never hurt a make-lots-of-attacks character.
I really liked your idea Grod! Please, see my lore above in this thread, and if you think something, let me know! :smallbiggrin:
The biggest problem, is the restriction, otherway, i will have a forest fist, stronger than the original forest fist :/



Youre a monk why is your wisdom so stinky I was going to say cleric...

How about a sorcerer dip ? Mage armour will last you forever . :smallsmile:

Fighters is not bad for hp and attack bonus and feat.


You got me with this question. I thought a lot, and I remembered, that originally I was going to do a bloodrager. I probably did not change the status when I wanted to change the class.

I'll talk to my DM about it!

My party has an alchemist, that always give me mage armour and some other potions! xD

Really, fighter would help with feats, I do not even have a weapon focus yet


sure, again assuming dragon magazine is allowed. if wild shape ranger isn't quick enough, divine minion is the most popular choice.

Divine minion is a class? I didnt found it :smallfrown:

[ATHATH]

Divine Minion is a template, actually.

[Dagroth]

Fist of the Forest = Fist of Nature. Gaining power from the land... from life itself. You prefer to sleep outdoors to watch over the land... to feel the ground beneath your feet. You want to show how farming can work with nature, rather than against it.

[Venger]

MoMF doesnt use my strengh, right?
Would not I be wasting a lot of my potential this way?
No, for momf, you use the str of whatever form you take. it would allow you to dump str entirely (assuming you're starting at the mid-levels which it doesn't sound like you are) and prioritize wis. since it sounds like you're stuck with the 5 levels you've taken, you might not want to do it (but it is still always a good choice)

I really don't see any conflict with your backstory and fist of the forest. your dm sounds cooperative, so you're probably fine.

if you wanted to do sacred fist, you could always say you eschewed weapons not out of pacifistic means, but out of machismo, a kind of "I don't need a weapon to beat my enemies, just my hands like a real man" kind of thing to make it fit more with your guy.
You got me with this question. I thought a lot, and I remembered, that originally I was going to do a bloodrager. I probably did not change the status when I wanted to change the class.


Divine minion is a class? I didnt found it :smallfrown:


Divine Minion is a template, actually.
link is here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) it's the preferred way to qualify for momf, and will also take care of qualification for warshaper, providing an always-on source of wild shape if your uses of rage run out since warshaper's class features only apply when you're morphed.

[Gruftzwerg]

But how does this story fit into the concept of a sacred forest champion? The difficult thing to do a new lore, is to find something that restrains me in the same way that the sacred fist restricts.


I am totally open to ideas, I would be very grateful if we found something that makes sense!


Eldritch Claws + Beast Strike is very nice, but a monk may not use eldritch claws as part of her flurry of blows, and i use brawler, by the houserule here, brawlers furry = Flurry of blows for effects and feats of 3.5 :smallsigh:

Swordsage seems a solid choice! (even if i dont take at 6th, will be good after)


ehem, first the interaction between Eldritch Claws + Beast Strike + Flurry:

Eldritch Claws (claw dmg) = Unarmed dmg + Eldritch Blast dmg

Beast Strike (unarmed dmg) = Claw dmg + Unarmed dmg
= (Unarmed dmg)x2 + Eldritch Blast dmg

Beast Strike is "unarmed strike" dmg and not a regular Claw Attack anymore. So you can use it for your flurry. But you can't use Beast Strike to get the regular 2 claw natural attacks
at max BaB bonus, claws normally receive. That is only possible for Eldritch Claws.

end: you can flurry with Beast Strike and yeah it's really that cheesy good ;)

regarding your background issues with Fist of the Forest:
why not just change the deity? I mean how does Thor fit into an unarmed build?
And I know you want it xD, to change to the dark side!^^
Choose Malar as deity and everything will be fine. Pray Malar and his Dogma under your prey! (btw, have a look at my Malar follower build for some build/background inspiration)

[khaldorgas]

ehem, first the interaction between Eldritch Claws + Beast Strike + Flurry:

Eldritch Claws (claw dmg) = Unarmed dmg + Eldritch Blast dmg

Beast Strike (unarmed dmg) = Claw dmg + Unarmed dmg
= (Unarmed dmg)x2 + Eldritch Blast dmg

Beast Strike is "unarmed strike" dmg and not a regular Claw Attack anymore. So you can use it for your flurry. But you can't use Beast Strike to get the regular 2 claw natural attacks
at max BaB bonus, claws normally receive. That is only possible for Eldritch Claws.

end: you can flurry with Beast Strike and yeah it's really that cheesy good ;)

regarding your background issues with Fist of the Forest:
why not just change the deity? I mean how does Thor fit into an unarmed build?
And I know you want it xD, to change to the dark side!^^
Choose Malar as deity and everything will be fine. Pray Malar and his Dogma under your prey! (btw, have a look at my Malar follower build for some build/background inspiration)

Sorry for the delay. I understood your combo only now. This is f****ng amazing! Thanks!

Now i'm going to lvl 7, but i think i go warlock!!! :smallbiggrin:

[Vaern]

A second level of monk will give you evasion and an extra +1 to all of your saves. Whenever I see anyone dip into monk, even if it's just as a base for an unarmed build, they take two levels for just that reason.

[khaldorgas]

A second level of monk will give you evasion and an extra +1 to all of your saves. Whenever I see anyone dip into monk, even if it's just as a base for an unarmed build, they take two levels for just that reason.


Yeah! On final i changed i lvl of monk by one of brawler. I will edit on the top

[Dread_Head]

Frostrager is a pretty decent choice for an unarmed barbarian type character. It's in Frostburn but also available online here http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040911a&page=3

Two levels gets you boosted natural armour during rage and an extra attack when using unarmed strikes. Five would get you more natural armour, heal from cold damage and a pretty brutal rend if you hit twice in a round.

You should check with your dm before using though because by RAW it sets your unarmed strike damage to 1d6 even if it was larger before hand. Most people would let you keep your higher damage or treat it as a size increase in damage but if your dm is a stickler then avoid this as it actively nerds your character.

You'd have to retrain some feats and/or dip fighter to qualify. I'd say it's on a par with Fist of the Forest (maybe not quite as good) but the Frostrage stacks with Bear Warrior so you could turn into an ice covered bear which is pretty cool.

[Gruftzwerg]

You should check with your dm before using though because by RAW it sets your unarmed strike damage to 1d6 even if it was larger before hand. Most people would let you keep your higher damage or treat it as a size increase in damage but if your dm is a stickler then avoid this as it actively nerds your character.

No DM fiat needed here:

Remember that the monks US already is a specific rule to the general US rule.
The order how you have to apply the rules for monks unarmed strike & frostragers unarmed strike ain't set. Thus leaving you open in which order you want to apply the rules.

>> you declare your frostragers US as general (or first) and monks US as specific (or second) = 0 problem + max benefit.