A peculiar ranger combination: No-spell variant + Conclave with bonus spells.

[Arkhios]

Let's say I had a reason to enforce a no-spell variant from the old Unearthed Arcana for Rangers by default, but still allowed a conclave that gave you bonus spells, because magic isn't completely nonexistent, just really rare.

How would you rule it?

My initial idea would be to let them have the bonus spells, but they'd be able to cast them only 1/long rest each, and only at their minimum spell levels?

Any opinions or maybe other ideas?

[jaappleton]

Since the spell-less Ranger lacks the Spellcasting feature, they can't cast the spells.

Other archetypes can cast spells without Spellcasting. Monster Slayer Fighter from the Gothic Heroes UA, for example. Totem Barbarian can cast a couple spells as Rituals.

But those are specific in how they're cast, given their lack of the ability to normally cast spells.

[Arkhios]

Yeah, but since the bonus spells are a actual sub-class feature, it would be pretty sad if they would get the spells but couldn't cast them just because they lack the general spellcasting ability. I guess I could just rewrite the bonus spells ability so that they could be cast in the same way as the Monster Hunter fighter does, maybe.

[DivisibleByZero]

Let's say I had a reason to enforce a no-spell variant from the old Unearthed Arcana for Rangers by default, but still allowed a conclave that gave you bonus spells, because magic isn't completely nonexistent, just really rare.

How would you rule it?

My initial idea would be to let them have the bonus spells, but they'd be able to cast them only 1/long rest each, and only at their minimum spell levels?

Any opinions or maybe other ideas?

Personally, I see little reason to force the spell-less variety, even in a game with extremely rare magic.
I would just limit the spell list, and refluff the ranger spells as non-magical.

Examples, from the 1st level Ranger spell list:
Alarm - sets snares and bells and stuff around the camp site
Animal Friendship - speaks soothing words and offers food
Cure Wounds - creates a poultice or bandages
Detect Magic - removed from list
Detect Poison and Disease - studies the victim closely, looking for sickness
Ensnaring Strike - casting time becomes 1 minute as you set traps and wires and whatnot, lasts 1 hour but sits dormant until activated via bonus action, follows normal rules otherwise
Fog Cloud - smoke from burning fresh greenery
Goodberry - removed from list --or-- refluffed as nonmagical and casting time changed to one hour of scavanging
Hail of Thorns - refluffed as more arrows
Hunter’s Mark - refluffed as extreme focus
Jump - removed from list or refluffed
Longstrider - refluffed and only allowed in favored terrains
Speak with Animals - removed or refluffed

That's the entire 1st level list, save for Conclave spells.
There are very few spells on the ranger list that can't be easily explained as being possible without magic. All that really needs to change is the fluff and potentially some "casting" times, and only a few items really need to be removed.

[Arkhios]

Personally, I see little reason to force the spell-less variety, even in a game with extremely rare magic.
I would just limit the spell list, and refluff the ranger spells as non-magical.

Examples, from the 1st level Ranger spell list:
Alarm - sets snares and bells and stuff around the camp site
Animal Friendship - speaks soothing words and offers food
Cure Wounds - creates a poultice or bandages
Detect Magic - removed from list
Detect Poison and Disease - studies the victim closely, looking for sickness
Ensnaring Strike - casting time becomes 1 minute as you set traps and wires and whatnot, lasts 1 hour but sits dormant until activated via bonus action, follows normal rules otherwise
Fog Cloud - smoke from burning fresh greenery
Goodberry - removed from list --or-- refluffed as nonmagical and casting time changed to one hour of scavanging
Hail of Thorns - refluffed as more arrows
Hunter’s Mark - refluffed as extreme focus
Jump - removed from list or refluffed
Longstrider - refluffed and only allowed in favored terrains
Speak with Animals - removed or refluffed

That's the entire 1st level list, save for Conclave spells.
There are very few spells on the ranger list that can't be easily explained as being possible without magic. All that really needs to change is the fluff and potentially some "casting" times, and only a few items really need to be removed.

True, and I did plan to do that first, but I found I was too lazy for that :D

[djreynolds]

Let's say I had a reason to enforce a no-spell variant from the old Unearthed Arcana for Rangers by default, but still allowed a conclave that gave you bonus spells, because magic isn't completely nonexistent, just really rare.

How would you rule it?

My initial idea would be to let them have the bonus spells, but they'd be able to cast them only 1/long rest each, and only at their minimum spell levels?

Any opinions or maybe other ideas?

I think you would have to hombrew it, but since the archetype get spells the "could" just cast those once as you suggest.

So once a day a deep stalker, spell less ranger could use greater invisibility at the appropriate level and IMO if this ranger took levels in cleric he could use those slots to cast spells of appropriate or below level like rope trick

[Arkhios]

So once a day a deep stalker, spell less ranger could use greater invisibility at the appropriate level and IMO if this ranger took levels in cleric he could use those slots to cast spells of appropriate or below level like rope trick

Perhaps so, at least in theory.

[djreynolds]

Well Sage Advice will just say these UA classes are designed for multiclass, but still deep stalker does come with domain spells

Its not like you are an arcane cleric with shillelagh and getting +10 a whack from your wisdom modifier while you spam BB/GFB

[Arkhios]

It largely depends on the wording, but in case you could become a cleric (note, if magic is rare, there's only a slim chance that clerics would even exist), I suppose they could be cast as any other spells, but at the very least I wouldn't count spell-less ranger levels towards a total spellcasting level.

[djreynolds]

True but you can just make these long rest powers, like an eladrin would get with misty step

These powers are like the eldritch knights arcane strike, basically misty step once or twice a short rest or the charm ability of a frenzied berserker or swashbuckler

[Arkhios]

True but you can just make these long rest powers, like an eladrin would get with misty step

These powers are like the eldritch knights arcane strike, basically misty step once or twice a short rest or the charm ability of a frenzied berserker or swashbuckler

I see what you mean, but Fey Step is usable 1/short rest.

Since Unearthed Arcana is really almost equal with homebrewing, making minor adjustments to them isn't going to be an issue, if you're allowing them anyway.

I believe I'll go with the idea that as a member of a conclave that grants bonus spells, you really know these spells like you would anyway, but unless you have spell slots, you can cast each spell only once per long rest at their minimum level, using your Wisdom modifier as your spellcasting ability for them as normal.

Like always, if you know a spell from one of your classes (which Magic Initiate doesn't do, unless you chose the feat and spells for one of your classes), you can expend spell slots to upcast the spell.

[Spiritchaser]

I have to admit, at first I thought this was a subtle April fools joke but you posted yesterday.

I'd say the bonus spells are a feature of the subclass and therefore have playbalance weight as well as enhance the flavor of that subclass. One should try and find a way to add them.

As a starting point, I'd be inclined to allow spell points sufficient to cast the highest level spell that character can cast once per long rest, and if that character wanted to cast a couple of lower level spells with those points, so be it.

[Arkhios]

I have to admit, at first I thought this was a subtle April fools joke but you posted yesterday.

I'd say the bonus spells are a feature of the subclass and therefore have playbalance weight as well as enhance the flavor of that subclass. One should try and find a way to add them.

As a starting point, I'd be inclined to allow spell points sufficient to cast the highest level spell that character can cast once per long rest, and if that character wanted to cast a couple of lower level spells with those points, so be it.

Heh, it would've certainly been a good april fools. Damn the missed opportunity!

I agree, Conclaves which grant bonus spells depend on those spells to fulfill a certain aspect of the archetype. They're not just ribbons one would just handwave and forget.

Anyhow, spell points - while not being used otherwise - could make those conclaves different and interesting in a good way :)
I like the idea. Especially if spell points being used would be unique to rangers of those few conclaves, in the case of multiclassing they would behave much like spellcasting and pact magic do; they'd be partially incompatible.

So, let's see:

3rd level: 2 points
5th level: 3 points
9th level: 5 points
13th level: 6 points
17th level: 7 points


Certainly not too much. Very good. Thanks!