Making a "renaissance (goat)man" - Bard/Paladin

[solidork]

So, we have a one shot coming up set in Sigil. I've been wanting to play a fey character who is associated with a fey court and I've ALSO been wanting to play a College of Glamour Bard, so this seems like a good opportunity to do both.

These things are certain:
- Starting at level 11
- At least 6 levels of College of Glamour. I want Mantle of Majesty something fierce.
- Homebrew Satyr race. +1 Cha, +1 Dex, +1 Any. 35ft walking speed. Advantage vs Fear and Charm. Pseudo-Subtle Spell 1/long rest. Innate Spellcasting Druidcraft/Charm Person/Suggestion.

Stats: 16 15 13 12 11 11 (Kinda perfect for a Half Elf, RIP.)

The concept that I'm working with at the moment is a particularly hedonistic/self indulgent take on the "warrior poet" trope. More than one society in history has desired that warriors among the upper class be skilled in art, etiquette and diplomacy as well as arms. If we're willfully ignoring the existence of the Valor Bard (and we are) we need to look to a second class to get our melee capability. So far I have only really considered Paladin, and my DM has said he will allow me to multiclass into it with my Dex.

Oaths(Assuming I take at least 3 levels of paladin, I might not depending on what people think):
Ancients - It's not an accident that this works really well for a fey knight.
Redemption - This is super tempting, since I love the idea that he doesn't have to change out of his swanky clothes to fight.(I like it enough that I am strongly considering Magic Initiate: Sorcerer for Mage Armor) The persuasion channel divinity is also basically perfect. Unfortunately, I don't really like the tenets of the oath at all.

So, the way I see it my options are
6 Bard/5 Paladin (The most martial build. I probably wouldn't need to get a melee cantrip if I went this way. I also get Find Steed, which could be cool.)
8 Bard/3 Paladin (I'd get a 5th level slot, but not a spell known. Magic initiate is doubly attractive, to get me a melee cantrip.)
9 Bard/2 Paladin (Similar to 8/3. I suspect that this is the most optimized option.)

Things I'm not so sure about: Resilient(Con)? I'm not even sure how casting spells would work if I didn't take Warcaster.(Most musical instruments take two hands. Do I just use a tambourine?)

If you're curious about fluff, I am blatantly stealing from Changeling 2e and he's going to be from a court that is based on 1001 Nights. It's a mishmash of north Africa, the middle east and India. The Sultan of the Waste lies dreaming, and his wife Scheherazade must whisper a new story to him each night, lest he awaken and spread a desert across the Feywild. I'm trying to do enough research so that my character wont just be a racist caricature.

[Specter]

You need at least 13 CHA for this multi.

[Galadhrim]

So, we have a one shot coming up set in Sigil. I've been wanting to play a fey character who is associated with a fey court and I've ALSO been wanting to play a College of Glamour Bard, so this seems like a good opportunity to do both.

These things are certain:
- Starting at level 11
- At least 6 levels of College of Glamour. I want Mantle of Majesty something fierce.
- Homebrew Satyr race. +1 Cha, +1 Dex, +1 Any. 35ft walking speed. Advantage vs Fear and Charm. Pseudo-Subtle Spell 1/long rest. Innate Spellcasting Druidcraft/Charm Person/Suggestion.

Stats: 16 15 13 12 11 11 (Kinda perfect for a Half Elf, RIP.)

The concept that I'm working with at the moment is a particularly hedonistic/self indulgent take on the "warrior poet" trope. More than one society in history has desired that warriors among the upper class be skilled in art, etiquette and diplomacy as well as arms. If we're willfully ignoring the existence of the Valor Bard (and we are) we need to look to a second class to get our melee capability. So far I have only really considered Paladin, and my DM has said he will allow me to multiclass into it with my Dex.

So, the way I see it my options are
6 Bard/5 Paladin (The most martial build. I probably wouldn't need to get a melee cantrip if I went this way. I also get Find Steed, which could be cool.)
8 Bard/3 Paladin (I'd get a 5th level slot, but not a spell known. Magic initiate is doubly attractive, to get me a melee cantrip.)
9 Bard/2 Paladin (Similar to 8/3. I suspect that this is the most optimized option.)

Things I'm not so sure about: Resilient(Con)? I'm not even sure how casting spells would work if I didn't take Warcaster.(Most musical instruments take two hands. Do I just use a tambourine?)


I'm not the best at this, but I'll take a swing at it. Something is better than nothing right?
First, I love the idea of the character. It sounds like a ton of fun to play. I'm assuming those stats you gave are what you rolled and not the order you have them on the character sheet.

Given your description of the character, Dex based warrior poet that uses his fey nature to charm and trick his way through, I agree with your thoughts of going either 8/3 or 9/2. So that means it comes down to what you want more, channel divinity options and level 2 paladin spells or level 5 bard spells. To me, the bard 5 list is made for this character. Awaken seems really cool for this character. then you have Dominate person, Dream, Mislead, modify memory, seeming.

As to ASI, if you are making a "warrior poet" with dex based, that seems like shield and rapier to me. That being said, I think you are correct that you will need War Caster. At level 11, I think War Caster and Resilient Con are about equal as far as concentration saves anyway.

If you really want a melee cantrip, you have to fit in magic initiate, so...

If you take your stats and race, that would leave
11 16 14 11 12 17
War Caster
Actor (+1 Cha)

or

12 16 14 11 12 16
War Caster
Magic Initiate (Wizard): Booming Blade, Minor Illusion, Find Familiar.

[JAL_1138]

Break points for Palabard are generally either Paladin 6/ Lore Bard X or Paladin 2 /Valor Bard X. Depends on whether you want to

(1) Be more of a melee/frontliner Smite-factory Paladin with extra skills, some cantrips, the ritual caster feature for Bard spells you know, more Smite slots, Cutting Words, and improved spellcasting compared to single-classed paladins, including eventually a 9th-level spell slot to upcast spells from, at the cost of a little HP, Improved Divine Smite, the level 7 paladin feature (although if you go Oath of the Ancients, take the 7th level of Paladin, because the level 7 aura Ancients paladins get is too good to pass up if you've already gone that far into paladin); or

(2) Be a Valor Bard who learns 9th level spells eventually, with a 2-level delay in Valor Bard progression in exchange for significantly improved melee capacity when needed via Divine Smite, a fighting style (I suggest Dueling for +2 to damage with one-handed weapons if you aren't dual-wielding, or Defense for +1 to AC), and heavy armor proficiency (which won't benefit a Dex-focused build).

Either is quite good. My take on it is that Paladin 6/Lore Bard 14 (or Ancients 7 /Lore 13) is the far better pick for someone who will be primarily on the front line in melee, and because of the auras will likely be more appreciated by the party. The aura feature is seriously fantastic; unless you're just going for a two-level dip, do not leave Paladin without picking up the level 6 aura. Paladin 2/ Valor Bard X on the other hand is the better pick for a spellcaster who can definitely step into melee if necessary and do quite respectably at it, but is a spellcaster first. It's my personal preference, because higher-level spells are fun and you get to them faster (and get to them at all, for 8th and 9th level spells)--but it doesn't get the aura (or channel divinity).


I'm not the best at this, but I'll take a swing at it. Something is better than nothing right?
First, I love the idea of the character. It sounds like a ton of fun to play. I'm assuming those stats you gave are what you rolled and not the order you have them on the character sheet.

Given your description of the character, Dex based warrior poet that uses his fey nature to charm and trick his way through, I agree with your thoughts of going either 8/3 or 9/2. So that means it comes down to what you want more, channel divinity options and level 2 paladin spells or level 5 bard spells. To me, the bard 5 list is made for this character. Awaken seems really cool for this character. then you have Dominate person, Dream, Mislead, modify memory, seeming.

As to ASI, if you are making a "warrior poet" with dex based, that seems like shield and rapier to me. That being said, I think you are correct that you will need War Caster. At level 11, I think War Caster and Resilient Con are about equal as far as concentration saves anyway.

If you really want a melee cantrip, you have to fit in magic initiate, so...

If you take your stats and race, that would leave
11 16 14 11 12 17
War Caster
Actor (+1 Cha)

or

12 16 14 11 12 16
War Caster
Magic Initiate (Wizard): Booming Blade, Minor Illusion, Find Familiar.

Magic Initiate isn't needed--just wait a level and pick it up as a Magical Secret. Giving up one Secret is somewhat less painful than spending an ASI or feat on it. If OP goes Paladin 2/ Valor Bard X, it's also the better option, since Battle Magic (Valor 14 feature; grants a melee attack as a bonus action after casting a bard spell or cantrip) only works with Bard spells (Magical Secrets count as bard spells, Magic Initiate spells don't).

[Galadhrim]

Magic Initiate isn't needed--just wait a level and pick it up as a Magical Secret. Giving up one Secret is somewhat less painful than spending an ASI or feat on it. If OP goes Paladin 2/ Valor Bard X, it's also the better option, since Battle Magic (Valor 14 feature; grants a melee attack as a bonus action after casting a bard spell or cantrip) only works with Bard spells (Magical Secrets count as bard spells, Magic Initiate spells don't).

Well he said at the top he didn't want to go Valor, he wanted to go college of glamour. He also said this is a one shot so I assumed there wouldn't be leveling up but I could be wrong about that.

[JAL_1138]

Well he said at the top he didn't want to go Valor, he wanted to go college of glamour. He also said this is a one shot so I assumed there wouldn't be leveling up but I could be wrong about that.

Fair enough; looks like I didn't read the first post closely enough. My bad.

[solidork]

Fair enough; looks like I didn't read the first post closely enough. My bad.

To be fair, it was kinda super long. :D

Thanks for your suggestions guys! I think I am going to go with Bard 8/Redemption Paladin 3. Since I don't need to use a shield, I can hold a lyre in the crook of one arm and then pluck it with the same hand that is holding my weapon. Warcaster would let me do something similar but I actually kinda want to actually use an instrument. I am going to end up still taking Magic Initiate for a melee cantrip, so I'm not sure what to pick as my 1st level spell. I don't really want to be That Guy and pick Warlock for Hex+EB even though it actually sort of makes sense for this character concept.