[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

[Serafina]

That's probably an oversight, but right now you can still get a net-gain from this if you choose the Drawback and Expanded Training.
Expanded Training gives you two packages, thus rendering Moving Target functional. And you've invested the same amount of talents, but gained one extra package, than if you had just picked Moving Target as a talent normally. It's also a way to essentially get Moving Target for free if you'd have bought all packages anyway, since you'd take Expanded Training twice either way.

Still ought to be fixed of course.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

That's probably an oversight, but right now you can still get a net-gain from this if you choose the Drawback and Expanded Training.
Expanded Training gives you two packages, thus rendering Moving Target functional. And you've invested the same amount of talents, but gained one extra package, than if you had just picked Moving Target as a talent normally. It's also a way to essentially get Moving Target for free if you'd have bought all packages anyway, since you'd take Expanded Training twice either way.

Still ought to be fixed of course.
Huh, so there's really no reason not to take Limited Athleticism then, is there? It's actually a net gain, unlike every other drawback

[Serafina]

Huh, so there's really no reason not to take Limited Athleticism then, is there? It's actually a net gain, unlike every other drawbackDepends entirely on what you want to do with the Athletics-sphere.
If you just want one package, and don't care about Moving Target, then obviously you'll not take the drawback because it'd be a net-loss.
If you want three packages, and don't care about Moving Target, then it's also one talent cheaper without the drawback.
But yes - if you want all four packages, it's basically a free talent - good even if you only rarely use it. If you want to have Moving Target, it's a free package (you either have two or four, as opposed to one or three). If you want all four packages and Moving Target, it's one talent cheaper.

[Ualaa]

Now I may be missing something, but do any of the spheres do anything for a character using Natural Weapons?

I specifically asked this during the first playtest, as I had a player interested in using Might with a Synthesist Summoner build, and Stack's response was that Natural Weapons are an oddity in the rules of the game. Basically, they're either too good (if you build for it), or not nearly good enough.

He essentially said that Might was intentionally built to work around weapons/unarmed strikes that function as weapons and to not work with natural attacks.

He did point me to the monster section of that playtest document and suggest using the information there.

[NomGarret]

There’s a fair amount that works for natural weapon wielders. Unarmed Training is the gateway talent for most of it. The thing is it doesn’t work the way we usually think of natural attack builds. A cat folk striker can use her claws in lieu of punches, and is otherwise like any other striker. SoM does not do a lot for claw/claw/bite/wing buffet/tail slap/tentacle/tentacle routines.

[torrasque666]

Do natural weapons count as light weapons for the purpose of the striker's Favored Weapon striker art? Additionally, can they be enchanted with the Dragon's Tattoos feat with/without the Unarmed Training Talent?

[NomGarret]

I'm inclined to say yes, though the relevant passages were part of late edits and maybe not as clear as they should be. It hinges on how encompassing the phrase "and interactions with abilities which require an unarmed strike" in Unarmed Training is meant to be.

[stack]

Regarding the limited athleticism issue, the drawback used to state that for any talent referring to movement mode from a package you possess, you instead had to choose one movement mode (so you pick ground speed for a normal human, for example). It also stated that you could not gain any packages.

Seems the necessary language was lost at some point.

[Hal0Badger]

Smashing Counter (deflect)

Whenever an attack misses a creature benefiting from your active defense, you may make a shield bash attack against the attacking creature as a free action that can be taken even when it’s not your turn.

Regarding that talent in Shield Sphere, does this extra attack with shield carry any penalties like two weapon fighting or half strength bonus?

[stack]

If an effect would apply a bonus or penalty to all attacks made until your next turn (combat expertise, power attack), those would apply also. Basically, treat it like an AOO.

[Hal0Badger]

If an effect would apply a bonus or penalty to all attacks made until your next turn (combat expertise, power attack), those would apply also. Basically, treat it like an AOO.

Sorry but I am a bit confused because of the bolded part. I mean, does it mean that attack has TWF penalties and gets any other penalties (like power attack) onto top of that?

I am asking because, in PF, as far as I can tell, shield bash is always an "off-hand" attack. First rule of that off-hand attack is that it gets half STR.

However, my confusion starts at this point: Off-hand term is used in TWF rules, and TWF rules only, with the penalties at that table. (correct me if I am wrong, my PF knowledge is not that high).

But that attack is an AoO, not a TWF attack nor a dual-wielding attack. Would there be still penalties of TWF on those? For example, if I am using a heavy shield, when I use my Active Defense ability with Smashing Counter, will be getting a -10 to that attack if I lack TWF? Or is it something else?

Might be a silly question but if you can make it a bit more clearer I would really appreciate it.

[stack]

Typed that one early and on my phone, 'also' was extraneous. TWF penalties would not apply in my understanding.

As for shield bashes always being off-hand, I recall discussions of that coming up in the past. I believe shield bash attacks can be made as a 'normal' weapon, but I do not have the relevant citations at my fingertips.

[Rungo]

At the moment, it is mentioned both ways; off-hand in weapon description (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/shield-heavy-or-light/) but just one-handed in the armour description (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/armor/shield-heavy-wooden-or-steel/). According to the internet (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/47915/are-there-any-rules-against-wielding-a-heavy-shield-two-handed) the latter is supposed to be the correct one, with the off-hand stuff being removed by errata to the books. I can't find that exact errata though, so no promises.

In any case, the Shield and Equipment spheres make 'dual-shielding' (one for defence, one for bashing) an interesting option. A bit too talent-intensive to be entirely practical, but a fun mental image either way. Bonus points if you do it with two Tower Shields for massive damage and pretend to be one of these jerks (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/42038661/images/1440314417088.png).

[RegalKain]

I apologize, I tried to search the thread, perhaps I didn't use the proper keywords, so again, I apologize if this was asked before.

If I am a Blacksmith who has access to Thunderous Blows, as well as having the Snipe Sphere and Shattering Shot Talent, does that mean I can then make a Deadly Shot (Apply it's damage bonus to the Sunder attempt) as well as Thunder Blows? Or would I simply not get the Deadly Shot bonus damage? (Or would Thunder Blows not apply to it despite it being a Sunder attempt.) I'm just a bit curious, as it seems with Barrage, Sniper, Shattering Shot, Breaking Blast and Blacksmith you could rather quickly just break everything forever. Thanks ahead of time for the answers.

[NomGarret]

Aside from Barrage and Deadly Shot not stacking as they are both special attack actions, I’m pretty sure that all works.

[EldritchWeaver]

Looking over the Dual Blade description I noticed one lack of information: If you don't split the weapon, what are its stats?

Edit: I've seen the table. Is that maybe the normal damage?

[Ssalarn]

Aside from Barrage and Deadly Shot not stacking as they are both special attack actions, I’m pretty sure that all works.

^^ This.
Deadly Shot and Barrage are a one or the other thing, but two of our playtest blacksmiths actually used Thunderous Blows at range as their primary attack method, one with pistols and one with a heavy crossbow.

[RegalKain]

^^ This.
Deadly Shot and Barrage are a one or the other thing, but two of our playtest blacksmiths actually used Thunderous Blows at range as their primary attack method, one with pistols and one with a heavy crossbow.


Aside from Barrage and Deadly Shot not stacking as they are both special attack actions, I’m pretty sure that all works.


Thanks for the info! Kinda spaced on the both being special actions thing. I absolutely love the Blacksmith class and our party needs a ranged person. So I wasn't sure if it synergized like I was thinking or not. Good to know though. :)

[N. Jolly]

Looking over the Dual Blade description I noticed one lack of information: If you don't split the weapon, what are its stats?

Edit: I've seen the table. Is that maybe the normal damage?

Yeah, it normally does 2d6 damage for medium characters if you don't split it.

[kkplx]

1. Can Unarmored Training stack with the Symbiat's Battlefield Sense increase in AC?


2. What does and what does not constitute "the AC bonus class feature of the monk or similar abilities."

[Sam C.]

1. Can Unarmored Training stack with the Symbiat's Battlefield Sense increase in AC?


2. What does and what does not constitute "the AC bonus class feature of the monk or similar abilities."

As far as I understand it, Unarmored Training does not stack with any class feature that adds one of your other ability score modifiers in addition to your Dexterity modifier to your AC. So Unarmored Training would not stack with Battlefield Sense.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Is there a range or time limit on the Bloodmonger feat?

[ChrisAsmadi]

Does the Scout sphere Heightened Awareness talent let you find (and thus, disable?) magical traps? I'm trying to make a Canny Scoundrel Unchained Rogue while still being able to fulfil the rogue niche (ie, being able to disarm traps).

[Halinn]

Does the Scout sphere Heightened Awareness talent let you find (and thus, disable?) magical traps? I'm trying to make a Canny Scoundrel Unchained Rogue while still being able to fulfil the rogue niche (ie, being able to disarm traps).

Everybody can find magical traps, it's disabling them that requires trapfinding. I think your best bet is to get your GM to allow you the Trap Finder campaign trait from Mummy's Mask, or the Trapfinding Slayer Talent.

[EldritchWeaver]

Everybody can find magical traps, it's disabling them that requires trapfinding. I think your best bet is to get your GM to allow you the Trap Finder campaign trait from Mummy's Mask, or the Trapfinding Slayer Talent.

Which reminds me, I never got an answer to my question during playtest (can't remember the exact channel), if the Trap sphere should give that ability as well. Personally, I would say yes, even if that breaks the last bastion for trapfinding exclusivity. It doesn't make sense, if you are blocked on that front.

[Halinn]

Which reminds me, I never got an answer to my question during playtest (can't remember the exact channel), if the Trap sphere should give that ability as well. Personally, I would say yes, even if that breaks the last bastion for trapfinding exclusivity. It doesn't make sense, if you are blocked on that front.

That'd make for a nice talent, I think. Exclusivity is already broken in a ton of ways anyways, from archetypes, to the Trap Finder campaign trait (Mummy's Mask), and the Aram Zey's Focus spell (from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide)

"You can disarm magic traps, and you gain 5 ranks in the Disable Device skill, plus 5 ranks per additional talent spent in the Trap sphere (maximum ranks equal to your total Hit Dice). If you already have ranks in the Disable Device skill you may immediately retrain them, but you do not get to retrain when only temporarily gaining talents, such as through the Armiger’s customized weapons class feature."

This way, at least people with the actual Trapfinding feature would still have an advantage in their perception/disable device checks, since they get ½ level to those checks. I guess it's a better talent than the Scout sphere's Great Senses, but I figure that's easily made up for by the fact that Perception is a better skill.

[Ruvain]

I feel like I might be missing an important line somewhere that explicitly answers this but. . . . .

A player presented a build idea to me for his attack rotation.
-Brutal Pummeler Brawler archetype-

1. Make an attack action
2. Make bonus attack via brawler's pummel
3. Sweeping Kick (open hand) the same target
4. Greater Trip (Combat Feat) for attack of opportunity
5. Spinning Heel Kick (open hand) an adjacent enemy

Would this work? How many things can you tack onto an attack action?

[Galacktic]

I feel like I might be missing an important line somewhere that explicitly answers this but. . . . .

A player presented a build idea to me for his attack rotation.
-Brutal Pummeler Brawler archetype-

1. Make an attack action
2. Make bonus attack via brawler's pummel
3. Sweeping Kick (open hand) the same target
4. Greater Trip (Combat Feat) for attack of opportunity
5. Spinning Heel Kick (open hand) an adjacent enemy

Would this work? How many things can you tack onto an attack action?

Infinite, so long as they explicitly call out the action they use. Most things don't work with free actions (so check that) but if you don't run out of swifts, immediates, or AOOs then you're pretty good to stack things absurdly.

[Ssalarn]

I feel like I might be missing an important line somewhere that explicitly answers this but. . . . .

A player presented a build idea to me for his attack rotation.
-Brutal Pummeler Brawler archetype-

1. Make an attack action
2. Make bonus attack via brawler's pummel
3. Sweeping Kick (open hand) the same target
4. Greater Trip (Combat Feat) for attack of opportunity
5. Spinning Heel Kick (open hand) an adjacent enemy

Would this work? How many things can you tack onto an attack action?

Those all work because they're different action types or non-actions, though the normal limitations like one action only being able to trigger one attack of opportunity still apply to sphere talents.

[EldritchWeaver]

Does the Armiger's customized weaponry extend to shields due to shield bash? If yes, it seems sensible that Quick and Lightning Change work with that as well. Basically, you could use Lightning Change when being attacked to grab your shield and increase your AC. Until you use the shield in shield bash at least.

[digiman619]

Dumb question: If I use the Kick-Off talent, do I have to go the entire distance? Because I worry about a 20th level full BAB guy having to move 30 feet and ending off being knocked off a cliff.

[Ualaa]

In spheres of power, you can cast at a lower caster level if you want a weaker effect.

It would be hard to imagine, not being able to kick with less force, than your maximum. I could easily choose to toss a rock a shorter distance than my maximum throw. I could not do the reverse and throw it further than my farthest toss. I'd think the relevant talent sets the maximum distance or power or whatever, but that we could choose to go at less than that maximum.

[stack]

Does the Armiger's customized weaponry extend to shields due to shield bash? If yes, it seems sensible that Quick and Lightning Change work with that as well. Basically, you could use Lightning Change when being attacked to grab your shield and increase your AC. Until you use the shield in shield bash at least.

You would need a quickdraw shield. I believe that drawing and donning shields are two separate actions (normally each a move until other abilities are applied). The base rules aren't abundantly clear from what I can see though.

Dumb question: If I use the Kick-Off talent, do I have to go the entire distance? Because I worry about a 20th level full BAB guy having to move 30 feet and ending off being knocked off a cliff.

The scaling additional 5 ft. is 'may move', so absolutely optional. The base 10 ft. is not written that way, but you ought to be allowed to willingly reduce that. I cannot give a definitive answer on intent for that part though.

[decamonos]

So this might be a bit obtuse but for the Improved Alchemist's Fire of the Alchemy Sphere, why is it always a full round action to extinguish, and why has the bonus from stopping, dropping, and rolling been reduced to a +2 from a +4 from all other instances in Pathfinder of being set on fire?

It seems like with no duration, no reflex to avoid being initially set on fire (even and especially in the splash radius), and requiring a full round action regardless of what you're doing (other than drenching yourself) that the alchemists fire is inherently a bit stronger than just about anything else in that sphere, and a little over powered in general.

[calyst]

How does the DC work for Death of a Thousand Cuts, Conscript Duelist Specialization work with variable bleed, from say Open Vein?

[Ssalarn]

So this might be a bit obtuse but for the Improved Alchemist's Fire of the Alchemy Sphere, why is it always a full round action to extinguish, and why has the bonus from stopping, dropping, and rolling been reduced to a +2 from a +4 from all other instances in Pathfinder of being set on fire?

I'm not actually sure what happened there, since originally the catching fire rules were a direct copy/paste included for the sole purpose of making it so that you don't need to look up the catching on fire rules in the CRB. I'm unclear when/why that was changed so I'll need to double-check with the team and see if it's logged in our update files.



It seems like with no duration, no reflex to avoid being initially set on fire (even and especially in the splash radius), and requiring a full round action regardless of what you're doing (other than drenching yourself) that the alchemists fire is inherently a bit stronger than just about anything else in that sphere, and a little over powered in general.

Even with the nerf to the save bonus, it's 1d6 fire damage each round if you're caught on fire. Any creature with fire resistance or immunity simply won't care, and many other creatures will simply be able to ignore the miniscule amount of damage until combat is over and they're either dead or have time to properly extinguish the flames. The catch on fire effect is largely a small bonus that's nice when it kicks in since it can provide that small tilt in the party's favor during a drawn out fight and makes for some entertaining visuals, but is unlikely to have any significant impact after the first two or three levels of play. Compared to the higher base damage and less resisted effects of Improved Bottled Lightning, the blindness imposed by Improved Flash Powder, or even the recurring effect from Improved Acid Flask (which can't be avoided, scales much higher, and is generally less resisted than fire) it's pretty equitable, maybe even a tad weaker.


How does the DC work for Death of a Thousand Cuts, Conscript Duelist Specialization work with variable bleed, from say Open Vein?

Death by a Thousand Cuts is determined by the amount of bleed damage the target is currently taking. So if you're a +4 BAB Duelist using Open Vein, you dealt 2d4+2 bleed damage. Assuming you had an average roll, that means the target needs to make a DC 17 save to avoid becoming fatigued (2.5+2.5+2).

[Quarian Rex]

I'm not actually sure what happened there, since originally the catching fire rules were a direct copy/paste included for the sole purpose of making it so that you don't need to look up the catching on fire rules in the CRB. I'm unclear when/why that was changed so I'll need to double-check with the team and see if it's logged in our update files.



Even with the nerf to the save bonus, it's 1d6 fire damage each round if you're caught on fire. Any creature with fire resistance or immunity simply won't care, and many other creatures will simply be able to ignore the miniscule amount of damage until combat is over and they're either dead or have time to properly extinguish the flames. The catch on fire effect is largely a small bonus that's nice when it kicks in since it can provide that small tilt in the party's favor during a drawn out fight and makes for some entertaining visuals, but is unlikely to have any significant impact after the first two or three levels of play. Compared to the higher base damage and less resisted effects of Improved Bottled Lightning, the blindness imposed by Improved Flash Powder, or even the recurring effect from Improved Acid Flask (which can't be avoided, scales much higher, and is generally less resisted than fire) it's pretty equitable, maybe even a tad weaker.


I though that you answered your own query here. The burning effect is inherently weak so the action required to remove was increased while the bonus to save was decreased to better reflect something a little more akin to napalm. It's balancing like that (not necessarily increasing power but making sure that it sticks) that I really appreciate. Please don't consider errata-ing that away.

[Ssalarn]

I though that you answered your own query here. The burning effect is inherently weak so the action required to remove was increased while the bonus to save was decreased to better reflect something a little more akin to napalm. It's balancing like that (not necessarily increasing power but making sure that it sticks) that I really appreciate. Please don't consider errata-ing that away.

Yeah, sorry if I gave you a scare there. On researching the change that's exactly what happened. The burning effect was actually on the weaker end of the effects for improved alchemical items, so we made the fire a little more "sticky" than it normally would be as a way of making it a worthwhile effect compared to the other improved alchemical items.

[decamonos]

Questions regarding the Sage's Ki Clone ability:

1. If multi-classing, do Ki Clone's possess their own resources for other class features, such as daily uses of an ability, or spell points? If not, are you able to give them these as you would Ki points?

2. Do Ki Clones also possess all the items you do? If so, how does this interact with consumable items, or items with charges? Also if so, do the magic items function normally for other creatures if stolen?

3. What happens if I fuse with a Ki Clone using alteration once the ki clone duration is up? Would doing a permanent fusion change this?

4. Can I activate the ability over multiple rounds to get multiple clones?

[Ssalarn]

Questions regarding the Sage's Ki Clone ability:

1. If multi-classing, do Ki Clone's possess their own resources for other class features, such as daily uses of an ability, or spell points? If not, are you able to give them these as you would Ki points?

The clone doesn't have any such resources of its own, but can be invested with them just like with the ki points. I'll see if we can get that updated to be specifically stated in the ability.



2. Do Ki Clones also possess all the items you do? If so, how does this interact with consumable items, or items with charges? Also if so, do the magic items function normally for other creatures if stolen?

The Ki Clone has any static benefits of magic items the sage is wearing since it shares his abilities and statistics, but does not have any actual magic items of its own.



3. What happens if I fuse with a Ki Clone using alteration once the ki clone duration is up? Would doing a permanent fusion change this?

The ki clone ceases to exist once the duration ends, so the fusion effect would immediately end, even if it would otherwise be permanent.



4. Can I activate the ability over multiple rounds to get multiple clones?

Yes, though the ruling that "each additional ki clone after the first costs 2 ki points instead of 1" still applies.

[EldritchWeaver]

You would need a quickdraw shield. I believe that drawing and donning shields are two separate actions (normally each a move until other abilities are applied). The base rules aren't abundantly clear from what I can see though.

I'm not sure how I managed to miss this, but Armiger rules state:


The armiger must be proficient with the weapon to customize it and may not customize siege weapons. If the armiger possesses proficiency with shields, she may customize a shield with one of her weapon customization sets, either as a single weapon or as part of a pair of weapons. The enhancement bonus from enhanced customization only applies to using the shield as a weapon.

So does this still require Quickdraw Shields?

Also, does the Shielding Ward allow a ward to count as a shield in a general sense? For example, conscripts have a Shield sphere specialization, The prestige class Student of War (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/student-of-war/) changes Dex to Int, if you wield a shield. On the other hand, Armiger (as quoted above) might not work

[CrystalMists]

So I noticed something today.

Specifically Guns in Spheres of Might.

So; there are ways to get gun profiency in Spheres of Might, Most notable is taking one of the traditions that give it through the equipment Sphere.
Getting Gunsmithing Feat with it.
No Guns.
and: Unless specifically noted otherwise, a character can only gain a single martial tradition, and can only select one as a 1st level character;

So pretty much any gun based Tradition is sorta..teasingly useless until you got the gold to get a gun (assuming your not using the rich trait)

So, is this on purpose or an oversight?

[stack]

I'm not sure how I managed to miss this, but Armiger rules state:



So does this still require Quickdraw Shields?

Also, does the Shielding Ward allow a ward to count as a shield in a general sense? For example, conscripts have a Shield sphere specialization, The prestige class Student of War (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/student-of-war/) changes Dex to Int, if you wield a shield. On the other hand, Armiger (as quoted above) might not work

Shields being both 'armor' and weapons runs into some gray areas in the rules. An armiger can quick-draw a customized shield and use it as a weapon, but would need to spend the additional action to strap it on to gain the AC benefits unless using a quickdraw shield. Feel free to houserule this away though. Some option to turn other shields into quickdraw shields would probably be a good idea.

For shield ward, it acts as a shield "for the purposes of Shield sphere abilities and for making shield bash attacks". The conscript's 3rd level ability doesn't really apply, beyond counting the 'heavy shield' at CL10 as a light weapon. The 8th level ability works fine with shield ward (it modifies active defense and the second portion just says 'shield bonus'). 20th wouldn't really apply since it isn't actually an equipped shield.

I can't check student of war at the moment. If it requires a shield, it doesn't work, if it requires a shield bonus, it should work.

[decamonos]

Yes, though the ruling that "each additional ki clone after the first costs 2 ki points instead of 1" still applies.

Does the limit on how much you can spend still apply then as well? Effectively limiting the number you can have out at once, or is that limit only per casting?

Additional and unrelated question: If I am a technician with the electrical insight, and I make one of my independent inventions with the robot sub-type, can it act on its own, or does it require that the Electric Controls improvement be taken twice regardless of if it has an int score?

[Quarian Rex]

Additional and unrelated question: If I am a technician with the electrical insight, and I make one of my independent inventions with the robot sub-type, can it act on its own, or does it require that the Electric Controls improvement be taken twice regardless of if it has an int score?

It seems to need electric controls. Without that you get something like JARVIS in an Ironman suit. Helpful chatter, can take mental actions/make perception checks, etc.

[Lucas Yew]

I have three new questions, though the last one is mainly about SoP.

----

1. For spheres with two related skills (Fencing/Scout), what is the maximum bonus rank for the skills when you only have the base sphere and the second skill talents for each (Read Foe/Great Senses)? To sum up, is it 10/05, or 10/10? I'd really like if it was the latter; even better if the final draft before printing clarifies this!

2. Shouldn't the thread name be changed to omit the "open playtest" part by now? The campaign was successful and the PDFs are out, so why not clean up into something like <[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might General Thread>?

3. Do you (DDS) have any plans in errata-ing the Incanter's +1 caster level bonus to work like the Conscript's BAB +1 treatment bonus? The poor class deserves to be treated as it's own thing, not a mere dip material!

[EldritchWeaver]

Shields being both 'armor' and weapons runs into some gray areas in the rules. An armiger can quick-draw a customized shield and use it as a weapon, but would need to spend the additional action to strap it on to gain the AC benefits unless using a quickdraw shield. Feel free to houserule this away though. Some option to turn other shields into quickdraw shields would probably be a good idea.

For shield ward, it acts as a shield "for the purposes of Shield sphere abilities and for making shield bash attacks". The conscript's 3rd level ability doesn't really apply, beyond counting the 'heavy shield' at CL10 as a light weapon. The 8th level ability works fine with shield ward (it modifies active defense and the second portion just says 'shield bonus'). 20th wouldn't really apply since it isn't actually an equipped shield.

I can't check student of war at the moment. If it requires a shield, it doesn't work, if it requires a shield bonus, it should work.

So would a feat for this work?


Quickdon Shield

Prerequites: Quickdraw.

Benefit: You can also don your shield as a part of drawing it, granting the AC bonus, instead of using the shield for a bash attack.

Normal: Donning a shield takes an action as described by the item rules.


For shield ward, it acts as a shield "for the purposes of Shield sphere abilities and for making shield bash attacks". The conscript's 3rd level ability doesn't really apply, beyond counting the 'heavy shield' at CL10 as a light weapon. The 8th level ability works fine with shield ward (it modifies active defense and the second portion just says 'shield bonus'). 20th wouldn't really apply since it isn't actually an equipped shield.

I can't check student of war at the moment. If it requires a shield, it doesn't work, if it requires a shield bonus, it should work.

Student of War requires shield.


I have three new questions, though the last one is mainly about SoP.

----

1. For spheres with two related skills (Fencing/Scout), what is the maximum bonus rank for the skills when you only have the base sphere and the second skill talents for each (Read Foe/Great Senses)? To sum up, is it 10/05, or 10/10? I'd really like if it was the latter; even better if the final draft before printing clarifies this!

It should be 10/10, because the base sphere is an additional talent of the Scout sphere. Also it would be strange if those skills didn't follow the same formula as the rest (cap = number of talents in sphere * 5).

[CrystalMists]

Maybe you guys can help me.

So I'm looking at making basically a Multiclassed SOP/SOM character. (Gestalt in reality)

Is there any way I can mold Guns and Destruction Sphere together?

or even any suggestions how I could make something like that work at all? (ranged attacks, would love guns) tied with magic ability

[meemaas]

Maybe you guys can help me.

So I'm looking at making basically a Multiclassed SOP/SOM character. (Gestalt in reality)

Is there any way I can mold Guns and Destruction Sphere together?

or even any suggestions how I could make something like that work at all? (ranged attacks, would love guns) tied with magic ability

Blaster archetype Armorist is effectively this in a nutshell. Making a gun that uses destructive blasts instead of bullets. Otherwise some combination of Energy Blade and Spell Attack should let you add Destructive Blasts to your attack actions, but isn't innately compatible with special attack actions like (OTOH) barrage and snipe

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Maybe you guys can help me.

So I'm looking at making basically a Multiclassed SOP/SOM character. (Gestalt in reality)

Is there any way I can mold Guns and Destruction Sphere together?

or even any suggestions how I could make something like that work at all? (ranged attacks, would love guns) tied with magic ability

Dip a level of Spellslinger Wizard the go into that ranged Armorist archetype (for more gun) or Elementalist (for more blast). Gets you a gun and lets you add your gun’s enhancement bonus to spells.

[Zsaber0]

Due to Dragoon Leap stating you take no damage from the height jumped, does this mean it doesn't function with Diving Strike because of the line


"If you are subject to an ability or effect that negates or reduces falling damage (other than the normal Acrobatics check to reduce fall height), such as the feather fall spell or the boots of the cat, your bonus damage dice from this talent are also negated or reduced in a similar fashion."

[AlienFromBeyond]

Blaster archetype Armorist is effectively this in a nutshell. Making a gun that uses destructive blasts instead of bullets. Otherwise some combination of Energy Blade and Spell Attack should let you add Destructive Blasts to your attack actions, but isn't innately compatible with special attack actions like (OTOH) barrage and snipe
To expand upon this, if you're looking to use a special attack action like barrage or sniping sphere abilities while using destructive blast, you could dip 2 levels of Magus with the Mystic or Runic Knight archetypes. They let you cast a touch spell, deliver it through a weapon attack (including ranged), and have it be treated as an attack action (but not a special attack action). You also don't require Energy Blade or Spell Attack this way!

There is also a new Incanter specialization called Black Powder Mage in the Gear of Power playtest, lets you spellstrike with a gun adding its enhancement bonus to the ability you use through it like a staff. Also lets you do mini-Magus Arcane Pool stuff.

[khadgar567]

besides magus you can pop level in prodigy and get same result anyway.

[digiman619]

On the kickstarter, you guys mentioned that you believed that the print run should be ready in Late January. How close are we to seeing it in print?

[RedMop]

Alchemist 10 with Max ranks in Craft Alchemy making Improved Acid Flask (with +10 DC) and an Int of 24 (+7) and using a +3 launching crossbow.

Assuming the DC is made, the Flask should do 6d6 damage by itself.
What damage adds are there?

Does Int (+7) add to the central damage, and thus, 1/2 to the middle ring?
How about the +3 from the launching crossbow adding to the central and middle ring?
Do the damage adds add to the outer ring?

[N. Jolly]

So I noticed something today.

Specifically Guns in Spheres of Might.

So; there are ways to get gun profiency in Spheres of Might, Most notable is taking one of the traditions that give it through the equipment Sphere.
Getting Gunsmithing Feat with it.
No Guns.
and: Unless specifically noted otherwise, a character can only gain a single martial tradition, and can only select one as a 1st level character;

So pretty much any gun based Tradition is sorta..teasingly useless until you got the gold to get a gun (assuming your not using the rich trait)

So, is this on purpose or an oversight?

Let me state that I think gun pricing is garbage. As an author, I'm going to say that this tradition lets you pick up a gunslinger style gun for free with all the caveats, and that gun pricing is jank.

[Hunter Noventa]

Let me state that I think gun pricing is garbage. As an author, I'm going to say that this tradition lets you pick up a gunslinger style gun for free with all the caveats, and that gun pricing is jank.

Gun pricing is so out of order that it would be cheaper to build a contraption to fling goats at your enemies than to use a gun with bullets.

[khadgar567]

Gun pricing is so out of order that it would be cheaper to build a contraption to fling goats at your enemies than to use a gun with bullets.
I wanna say can i sign this but i am not sure this worth to be signed.

[Omnificer]

Alchemist 10 with Max ranks in Craft Alchemy making Improved Acid Flask (with +10 DC) and an Int of 24 (+7) and using a +3 launching crossbow.

Assuming the DC is made, the Flask should do 6d6 damage by itself.
What damage adds are there?

Does Int (+7) add to the central damage, and thus, 1/2 to the middle ring?
How about the +3 from the launching crossbow adding to the central and middle ring?
Do the damage adds add to the outer ring?



1) I believe you should factor the +Int mod to damage after calculating the actual splash weapon damage. So, for a 2d6 Improved Acid Flash you would have your 2d6 damage to target, half of that total damage to the middle ring, and then 2 damage to the third ring. Then you add your +7 to each ring. This would be internally consistent and consistent with how Throw Anything interacts with regular splash weapons and Alchemist bombs, including bombs altered with the Explosive Bombs discovery (which has three rings itself.)

Otherwise you would effectively get +7 damage to the target, +3.5 damage to the middle ring, and then +7 again to the third ring that is explicitly called splash damage. That does not read to me as internally consistent or consistent with any application of Throw Anything outside of Spheres of Might.

2 and 3) The launching crossbow is an odd duck. The RAW consensus I have seen is that the +3 Launching Crossbow would add +3 to your ranged touch attack roll but not add any enhancement bonus to damage as the Launching Crossbow itself does not have any damage dice. I have no idea what the RAI should begin to be. It's hard to say exactly how it should work without Paizo releasing a FAQ or errata response.
Regardless you would still get your +Int mod to damage, since Throw Anything applies to any use of splash weapon, regardless if it is actually thrown or not.

[Sho]

This has probably been asked, so if anyone wants to tackle this small question, then feel free.

Q1: Do Brutal Strike and Vital Strike stack?

Q2: Does anyone else think that the Secondary Sphere Specialization that takes away some Bonus Talents is not worth it?

[Omnificer]

This has probably been asked, so if anyone wants to tackle this small question, then feel free.

Q: Do Brutal Strike and Vital Strike stack?

Yes, they stack. Brutal Strike is a special attack action and those explicitly can be augmented by feats (such as Vital Strike) and talents as if they were any other attack action. You simply cannot perform more than one special attack action at the same time, so if you had Barrage and and Sniper, you could not perform a barrage and a deadly shot simultaneously.

[Hunter Noventa]

I wanna say can i sign this but i am not sure this worth to be signed.

If you want to, I don't care. One of the people I play with did the math and that led to him and our GM doing historical research to get the pricing of guns and bullets more in line with what they should be.

[khadgar567]

If you want to, I don't care. One of the people I play with did the math and that led to him and our GM doing historical research to get the pricing of guns and bullets more in line with what they should be.
care to share the proper numbers my friend?

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I realize there's not going to be any official cross-product support, but how would you rule Path of War strikes counting as Attack actions for Sphere abilities? Do they, considering they're mostly standard actions to make an attack?

[EldritchWeaver]

I realize there's not going to be any official cross-product support, but how would you rule Path of War strikes counting as Attack actions for Sphere abilities? Do they, considering they're mostly standard actions to make an attack?

Standard action aren't attack actions.

[Hunter Noventa]

care to share the proper numbers my friend?

If I had them, I would. That campaign was quite a few years ago. I just remember that bullets ought to cost less than a goat.

[CrystalMists]

Attack actions are standard actions. To my understanding if its an use that can go onto a standard action. your good to go.

Example: broken blade manuver flurry strike.
Uses a standard action

Now lets say your flanking.

This meets fencings fatal thrust requirements for use. so add 1d6 presicion damage.

Just gotta be careful the actions match and aren't thier own actions.

[Ssalarn]

I realize there's not going to be any official cross-product support, but how would you rule Path of War strikes counting as Attack actions for Sphere abilities? Do they, considering they're mostly standard actions to make an attack?

No. An attack action is a specific type of standard action (the default action you take when making an attack as a standard action) and strikes are their own, specific type of standard action. In the same way that you generally can't Vital Strike with a strike from a martial discipline (last I checked), you can't combine a strike and an attack action.

[NomGarret]

Attack actions are a specific type of standard action. Maneuvers are typically standard actions but not explicitly attack actions and therefore most talents will not stack.

[AlienFromBeyond]

I realize there's not going to be any official cross-product support, but how would you rule Path of War strikes counting as Attack actions for Sphere abilities? Do they, considering they're mostly standard actions to make an attack?

They explicitly are not, the "initiate a maneuver action" is a totally separate one from the "attack action". An attack that uses a standard action does not make it an attack action, else Cleave would count as one (but it doesn't, that's why there's a talent to replicate it within the SoM system).

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Alright, so they’re more like “martial spells,” discrete actions with their own effects? Makes sense, just wanted to check.

[mrguymiah]

No. An attack action is a specific type of standard action (the default action you take when making an attack as a standard action) and strikes are their own, specific type of standard action. In the same way that you generally can't Vital Strike with a strike from a martial discipline (last I checked), you can't combine a strike and an attack action.

Hey, Ssalarn, I asked this in the Spheres of Power AMA, but don't seem to be getting any response. It's similar to the question you answered, so I'm gonna go ahead and repost it here;


Q430: Would it be reasonable to consider Telekinesis' Bludgeon as an "Attack Action" for the purpose of working with Spheres of Might? I understand that SoP obviously came out first and couldn't have predicted its followup martial counterpart, but it's a weird situation where base Paizo combat feats, such as Power Attack, are specifically called out as functioning with it if you have Dancing Weapon and Flair. I personally think that if you're invested enough into TK to have a good 5 talents or so to be able to reasonably use weapons with it, that you shouldn't be unable to combine Might's techniques with it. Hell, maybe make another talent to specifically allow that if it's a balance issue to piggyback SoM usage with the existing set of talents?

As an addendum; Mobile Bludgeon allows you to make a full attack action. To me, it seems entirely reasonable for Telekinesis to have a way to work with Spheres of Might when so much work has gone into letting it work with Paizo feats.

I have copied it verbatim to avoid any confusion. If you are unfamiliar with certain aspects of TK, I'll be glad to explain.

[ComaVision]

Is it possible to build a character with SoM similar to the Bloodstorm Blade prestige class?

For those that aren't familiar, the class lets you throw melee weapons at respectable distances and have the weapon bounce back to you. You can do full attacks at range, or even mix melee and ranged attacks.

[Omnificer]

Is it possible to build a character with SoM similar to the Bloodstorm Blade prestige class?

For those that aren't familiar, the class lets you throw melee weapons at respectable distances and have the weapon bounce back to you. You can do full attacks at range, or even mix melee and ranged attacks.

The Throwing Mastery talent from the Equipment sphere lets the weapon bounce back after every attack.

Crushing Thrower talent lets you treat your thrown attacks as melee attacks, for the purpose of feats, melee attack bonus, 1 and 1/2 bonus from using two hands, etc which is useful for the kind of classes that might take Bloodstorm Blade.

I'm not sure if there are talents that let you throw melee weapons without the penalties.

Edit: I just checked the Book of Nine Swords. I think Throwing Mastery is as good as Lightning Ricochet, Crushing Thrower is worded almost exactly the same as Thunderous Throw, And Pathfinder's Throw Anything feat is pretty similar to the Throw Anything feat on the sidebar of the Bloodstorm Blade. I think all you need are the Startoss Style feats to get most everything from Bloodstorm Blade except for Blade Storm.

[Ssalarn]

Hey, Ssalarn, I asked this in the Spheres of Power AMA, but don't seem to be getting any response. It's similar to the question you answered, so I'm gonna go ahead and repost it here;



I have copied it verbatim to avoid any confusion. If you are unfamiliar with certain aspects of TK, I'll be glad to explain.

So, here's my understanding: Adam is very aware of this question and has been discussing whether or not it's something that should simply be backported via errata, or it if it's powerful enough to justify putting it behind a feat or talent gate. I'll let you know when I have more information.

[AlienFromBeyond]

Crushing Thrower talent lets you treat your thrown attacks as melee attacks, for the purpose of feats, melee attack bonus, 1 and 1/2 bonus from using two hands, etc which is useful for the kind of classes that might take Bloodstorm Blade.
It only counts as a melee attack for the specific purpose of determining your attack bonus, that's why it has additional text for 2-handing and Power Attack (but nothing for other feats).

[digiman619]

We have blown past the projected physical release of the books. Any update on that?

[Zsaber0]

Due to Dragoon Leap stating you take no damage from the height jumped, does this mean it doesn't function with Diving Strike

Anyone know got any info about this?

[Quarian Rex]

Anyone know got any info about this?

Since Diving Strike says, "the attack deals damage as normal and also adds the appropriate amount of falling damage", and , "After the attack is resolved, you land in an unoccupied square of your choosing adjacent to the target, and you take falling damage as if you had fallen 10 fewer ft", it appears that the damage done and the damage you might receive due to the attack are completely independent, so the combo should work fine (to a max damage of 20d6 and so long as you have enough room to achieve the distance required for the damage).

[Zsaber0]

Since Diving Strike says, "the attack deals damage as normal and also adds the appropriate amount of falling damage", and , "After the attack is resolved, you land in an unoccupied square of your choosing adjacent to the target, and you take falling damage as if you had fallen 10 fewer ft", it appears that the damage done and the damage you might receive due to the attack are completely independent, so the combo should work fine (to a max damage of 20d6 and so long as you have enough room to achieve the distance required for the damage).

Diving strike says


If you are subject to an ability or effect that negates or reduces falling damage (other than the normal Acrobatics check to reduce fall height), such as the feather fall spell or the boots of the cat, your bonus damage dice from this talent are also negated or reduced in a similar fashion.

So at first brush it looks like it doesn't work or is an oversight in the sphere.

[Quarian Rex]

Diving strike says



So at first brush it looks like it doesn't work or is an oversight in the sphere.

Well, slap me sideways. For some reason my eyes just slid completely over that. Serves me right for looking something up in a rush.

[Cyrocloud]

I have a few questions about the Sage. Does the ki blast work with dual wielding and also Triangle slash (I realize you can not get triangle slash without mulitclassing with a min 1 conscript)? I enjoy the concept of shooting 18-21 laser beams a round.

Are ki blasts affected by other destruction talents like extended range, focused blast, and energy admixture (I realize you would have to take the destruction talent to grab any of these first)?

If multiple effects that stack on to an ability are used, does a ring of ki mastery reduce the total cost by one, or each effect by one to a min of one?

Do staffs increase the CL of a sage?

[EldritchWeaver]

Do staffs increase the CL of a sage?

A sage does not have a caster level per se, so I would say no.

[AlienFromBeyond]

A sage does not have a caster level per se, so I would say no.
Come again?

Sages who gain magic talents are treated as High-Casters when determining their caster level
They get a CAM, and can even gain a casting tradition. The only thing they don't get is the actual casting class feature (and thus the 2 free talents) but neither does a character with Advanced Magical Training and they sure can use a SoP staff.

[EldritchWeaver]

Come again?

They get a CAM, and can even gain a casting tradition. The only thing they don't get is the actual casting class feature (and thus the 2 free talents) but neither does a character with Advanced Magical Training and they sure can use a SoP staff.

Rereading the sage, it seems I confused Ki Blaster with the casting part. Ki Blaster can't be augmented by staves.

[Ualaa]

We have blown past the projected physical release of the books. Any update on that?

December 19th, on Kickstarter, was the last update as far as I can tell.
Adam said, we should have the books by the end of January, but obviously we don't have them yet.

[khadgar567]

December 19th, on Kickstarter, was the last update as far as I can tell.
Adam said, we should have the books by the end of January, but obviously we don't have them yet.
January what 2019 is my guess and we still have lot of time for that.

[Geigan]

How does Vital Strike interact with the splash weapons from the Alchemy sphere? As I understand it you can use it with these weapons, but only the initial list dice would be considered base damage dice and any additional dice from higher craft alchemy would be considered a "damage bonus" for the purpose of the feat. Do I have that right or am I completely off base?

Bumping this question, because I don't believe I ever got an answer. Our resident alchemy user is getting close-ish to the point where they'd decide on using Vital Strike or not, so I'm not sure whether to recommend or not.

[AlienFromBeyond]

Bumping this question, because I don't believe I ever got an answer. Our resident alchemy user is getting close-ish to the point where they'd decide on using Vital Strike or not, so I'm not sure whether to recommend or not.
Vital Strike doesn't interact with formulae, as you can't use them as an attack action, but must use the Throw Splash Weapon action like any other alchemical item.

[Geigan]

Vital Strike doesn't interact with formulae, as you can't use them as an attack action, but must use the Throw Splash Weapon action like any other alchemical item.

I see. Would that be the same if attacking with a flask thrower?

[decamonos]

What does the Dual Wielding Talent "Paired Proficiency" actually do?


Each combat feat, class feature, or combat talent which would apply to your main hand weapon also applies to your off-hand weapon, unless it would be an illegal choice (such as applying a talent to a melee attack that only may be used with ranged attacks or applying a feat that requires a specific type of weapon on a weapon that does not meet these prerequisites).

At +10 base attack bonus, combat feats, class features, or combat talents which would apply to your off-hand weapon also applies to your main hand weapon, unless they would also be an illegal choice. The only exception to this is special attack actions, such as brutal strikes, barrages, and deadly shots, which are not applied to the off-hand weapon.

Does this mean that it qualifies to be effected by combat talents, feats, etc. even if they specify an attack action? If not, is there an example of the usage, especially the benefit granted at BAB +10?

[AlienFromBeyond]

I see. Would that be the same if attacking with a flask thrower?
Yes, all a Flask Thrower does is give you better range.

What does the Dual Wielding Talent "Paired Proficiency" actually do?



Does this mean that it qualifies to be effected by combat talents, feats, etc. even if they specify an attack action? If not, is there an example of the usage, especially the benefit granted at BAB +10?
For example, if you are wielding a scimitar and a dagger, Weapon Focus (scimitar) would apply to both weapons. It's an incredibly niche talent because most normal people just use two of the same weapon to avoid needing something like this in the first place, and it doesn't even allow "illegal" combinations that would have made it interesting, like Power Attack with a ranged off-hand, or a feat that specifies use of a specific weapon (let's say scimitar again) with a totally different off-hand (like the aforementioned dagger).

[Lucas Yew]

I found out that a Feb 05 version was updated on DTRPG, and found out that while the mysterious size compression was good, the bookmarks are somehow messed up. Plus, although I have absolutely no problem that the cover was moved to the back, the front cover takes up a useless bit of 2nd page in the 239th one. Can this be fixed as fast as you can?

[Zsaber0]

Vital Strike doesn't interact with formulae, as you can't use them as an attack action, but must use the Throw Splash Weapon action like any other alchemical item.

What exactly is the "Throw Splash Weapon action" as I can only find reference to "Prepare to throw splash weapon" as the only thing needing it's own specific action, and the consensus seems to be that that is referring to a single item which is Oil? In addition, would vital strike work with Improved Bottled Lightning since that isn't a splash weapon?

[RedMop]

What exactly is the "Throw Splash Weapon action" as I can only find reference to "Prepare to throw splash weapon" as the only thing needing it's own specific action, and the consensus seems to be that that is referring to a single item which is Oil? In addition, would vital strike work with Improved Bottled Lightning since that isn't a splash weapon?

Splash weapons are just an attack. http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9rrc


Splash Weapons: Does the "prepare to throw splash weapon" full-round action (page 183) apply to using all splash weapons?
No. Throwing a splash weapon is an attack, and most splash weapons don't need any preparation before use, as they explode or activate on impact (all you need to do is retrieve it from where you have it stored, then throw it, spending the appropriate actions to do so).

The "prepare to throw splash weapon" entry in the table only refers to preparing a flask of oil for use as a splash weapon. The oil equipment description says:

Oil: A pint of oil burns for 6 hours in a lantern or lamp. You can also use a flask of oil as a splash weapon. Use the rules for alchemist's fire (see Special Substances and Items on Table 6–9), except that it takes a full-round action to prepare a flask with a fuse. Once it is thrown, there is a 50% chance of the flask igniting successfully.

Therefore, the full-round action listed in the table is the action required to apply a fuse to a flask of oil and light it so you can use it as a splash weapon. ("Preparing" the flask does not include throwing it, which is a separate action to attack.)

[Galacktic]

Question, with the Sage class and specifically its Enhancer ability can it gain Sphere-Specific Drawbacks for its Enhancement talents/Enhance abilities? It can gain a casting tradition with its abilities so I don't think gaining Sphere-Specific Drawbacks is out of the question but I'd figure throw it out here.

[Geigan]

Splash weapons are just an attack. http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9rrc

So looping back around to my original question, how do these formulae interact with vital strike? Regardless of the disagreement over how splash weapons work, the point about bottled lightning stands. Nothing seems to render the two mutually exclusive, so what's considered to be the base damage for purposes of the feat?

[Eldaran]

So looping back around to my original question, how do these formulae interact with vital strike? Regardless of the disagreement over how splash weapons work, the point about bottled lightning stands. Nothing seems to render the two mutually exclusive, so what's considered to be the base damage for purposes of the feat?

Bottled Lightning definitely doesn't work "You can open the bottle as a standard action, unleashing a small bolt of lightning toward an enemy within 20 feet of you. This is a ranged touch attack" not an attack action. Acid and Fire should probably work though by RAW, there's no listed action to use them, so you should be able to do it as an attack action. RAI it might be better to treat it as an Alchemist's bomb where the damage beyond 1d6 is bonus damage that doesn't get multiplied.

[RedMop]

Bottled Lightning definitely doesn't work "You can open the bottle as a standard action, unleashing a small bolt of lightning toward an enemy within 20 feet of you. This is a ranged touch attack" not an attack action. Acid and Fire should probably work though by RAW, there's no listed action to use them, so you should be able to do it as an attack action. RAI it might be better to treat it as an Alchemist's bomb where the damage beyond 1d6 is bonus damage that doesn't get multiplied.

Slightly ninjaed. The improved versions do nothing to change that.

[Zsaber0]

All Improved Formula say they are ranged touch attacks. You definitely can use an attack action to use a weapon that uses a ranged touch attack, and Improved bottled lightning leaves out the "As a standard action" language.

[Zsaber0]

If you apply Improved Fuse Grenade to the Trap Sphere Dart, does the bomb go off 1d3 rounds after setting the trap or 1d3 rounds after the trap is set off?

[torrasque666]

Do the talents that give proficiency with weapons like bastard swords, where the weapon is simultaneously a martial weapon and exotic weapon, give only the martial proficiency or the full exotic proficiency?

And regarding the Duelist's bleed, when it says that it stacks with any other bleed you're capable of dealing, does that mean that it stacks with itself? So if I hit a creature twice with a BAB +4 practitioner they're now taking 4 points per turn correct? And this isn't triggered by a full attack right?

[stack]

If you apply Improved Fuse Grenade to the Trap Sphere Dart, does the bomb go off 1d3 rounds after setting the trap or 1d3 rounds after the trap is set off?

Unless another dev disagrees, I would count triggering the trap as starting the countdown. Which could lead to interesting scenarios.

[Geigan]

Bottled Lightning definitely doesn't work "You can open the bottle as a standard action, unleashing a small bolt of lightning toward an enemy within 20 feet of you. This is a ranged touch attack" not an attack action. Acid and Fire should probably work though by RAW, there's no listed action to use them, so you should be able to do it as an attack action. RAI it might be better to treat it as an Alchemist's bomb where the damage beyond 1d6 is bonus damage that doesn't get multiplied.Sorry, I didn't reiterate since I was talking about the point Zsaber0 raised, but I was talking about the "Improved" version not regular bottled lightning.

Slightly ninjaed. The improved versions do nothing to change that.
Really? You sure about that?

Improved Bottled Lightning (formulae)
Craft DC: 25

Improved bottled lightning unleashes a small bolt of lightning toward an enemy within 20 ft. of you. This is a ranged touch attack that deals 1d8 points of electricity damage, plus 1d8 per 2 Craft (alchemy) ranks you possess. Any creature in a line between you and the target (including the target) takes 1 point of sonic damage plus 1 point per rank in Craft (alchemy) you possess from the terrific clap of thunder the bolt generates.

You can increase the Craft DC for this weapon in increments of 10; each time you do so, the range increases by 10 ft. and the sonic damage dealt to creatures in the line of effect increases by 1d6.I don't see standard action in there, so you'll forgive me if I'm still confused as to what's preventing use with vital strike exactly unless we're meant to assume the improved versions work the same way as the normal versions in terms of actions to use. Is that the case?

[ElFi]

This is a question that's been driving me crazy forever but I keep forgetting to ask. How do the Conscript's Finesse Training and the Finesse Fighting talent interact? If you take the latter twice, can you add half your BAB to damage and substitute Dex for Strength on damage, or is it one or the other?

Also, what exactly is the "alchemist's crafting kit" referred to by the Alchemy sphere? I couldn't find it anywhere on the SoP wiki- does it refer to the Alchemy Crafting Kit from Ultimate Equipment, or something else that I'm missing somehow?

[RedMop]

Sorry, I didn't reiterate since I was talking about the point Zsaber0 raised, but I was talking about the "Improved" version not regular bottled lightning.

Really? You sure about that?
I don't see standard action in there, so you'll forgive me if I'm still confused as to what's preventing use with vital strike exactly unless we're meant to assume the improved versions work the same way as the normal versions in terms of actions to use. Is that the case?

I'll let a dev weigh in. Usually, when the Improved/Greater something changes something, it specifically calls it out. The Improved Alchemy talents to not make any sort of call. That is how I came to my conclusion.

[stack]

The bonus from taking finesse training twice requires that you use strength for damage. If you get DEX to damage from conscript (or another source), you don't need finesse training.

[Galacktic]

Question, with the Sage class and specifically its Enhancer ability can it gain Sphere-Specific Drawbacks for its Enhancement talents/Enhance abilities? It can gain a casting tradition with its abilities so I don't think gaining Sphere-Specific Drawbacks is out of the question but I'd figure throw it out here.

Reposting this for a hopeful answer!

[Eldaran]

Reposting this for a hopeful answer!

You're not actually gaining access to a sphere, so I doubt it. You're just gaining certain talents from the sphere. You could spend a talent to gain access to the Enhancement sphere and then gain sphere specific drawbacks. Which would also let you use the enhance talents normally.

[AlienFromBeyond]

You're not actually gaining access to a sphere, so I doubt it. You're just gaining certain talents from the sphere. You could spend a talent to gain access to the Enhancement sphere and then gain sphere specific drawbacks. Which would also let you use the enhance talents normally.
Sphere-specific drawbacks are actually technically part of your casting tradition, just look at the example ones in the core Spheres of Power book such as Flame-Blooded or Druidic.

[Eldaran]

Sphere-specific drawbacks are actually technically part of your casting tradition, just look at the example ones in the core Spheres of Power book such as Flame-Blooded or Druidic.

From the book "General drawbacks must be selected as soon as the caster gains her first level in any spellcasting class. Sphere-Specific Drawbacks must be chosen as soon as the caster gains the drawback’s prerequisite sphere."

[EldritchWeaver]

Regarding the Scholar's healing ability: Is there any restriction in regards of the type of the creature I'm missing? Or can I heal undead and constructs, too? If not, how do I get that possibility?

[AlienFromBeyond]

From the book "General drawbacks must be selected as soon as the caster gains her first level in any spellcasting class. Sphere-Specific Drawbacks must be chosen as soon as the caster gains the drawback’s prerequisite sphere."
Well there you go, a contradictory answer within the book itself.

[Quarian Rex]

Well there you go, a contradictory answer within the book itself.

How is that contradictory? Drawbacks come into play when the thing they are affecting comes into play. I see no contradiction. The tradition examples lay a roadmap, they don't dictate how you spend your talents.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Well there you go, a contradictory answer within the book itself.
All that says is that you choose the drawbacks when you gain access to the thing they affect. General (spell point/boon granting) drawbacks don't come in until you have a spell pool from a casting class. Sphere-specific drawbacks are picked when you gain access to their sphere

[digiman619]

Dumb question, but to talents gained via drawbacks with the Brute, Boxing, Open Hand or Wrestling spheres count separately for improving unarmed damage? For example, if at first level I took the Defensive Pugilist drawback to get Tight Guard and I have two unarmed spheres/talents talents, does that qualify as having 4 talents and thus doing 1d6 damage w/unarmed strikes?

[EldritchWeaver]

Dumb question, but to talents gained via drawbacks with the Brute, Boxing, Open Hand or Wrestling spheres count separately for improving unarmed damage? For example, if at first level I took the Defensive Pugilist drawback to get Tight Guard and I have two unarmed spheres/talents talents, does that qualify as having 4 talents and thus doing 1d6 damage w/unarmed strikes?

There is no rule which changes the effect of talents depending on the source of the talent, with only one exception: If you gain a talent only temporarily, it doesn't provide the instant retraining it otherwise does.

[Kaouse]

The Opportunist talent from Trap Wielder allows you to take an attack of opportunity with a ranged weapon if somebody takes damage from your dart trap or fails their save against your snare trap. Does this ranged weapon allowance include splash weapons, or class-based weapons like Alchemist Bombs or Scholar Flashbangs?

[QuadraticGish]

Question about the railgun improvement.The firearm is powered by electricity and magnetism instead of blackpowder. The firearm no longer requires gunpower or blackpowder, meaning it can fire underwater or in other wet environments that would normally stop a firearm from functioning. Additionally, the firearm has its range increment multiplied by 3. This stacks with the multiplier from the improved rifling improvement.
If it no long requires gunpowder or blackpowder, does the firearm still require ammo and reloading?

[khadgar567]

Question about the railgun improvement.The firearm is powered by electricity and magnetism instead of blackpowder. The firearm no longer requires gunpower or blackpowder, meaning it can fire underwater or in other wet environments that would normally stop a firearm from functioning. Additionally, the firearm has its range increment multiplied by 3. This stacks with the multiplier from the improved rifling improvement.
If it no long requires gunpowder or blackpowder, does the firearm still require ammo and reloading?
Common sense says yep. You still need to reload the rail gun and need ammo for it

[CasualViking]

Do the talents that give proficiency with weapons like bastard swords, where the weapon is simultaneously a martial weapon and exotic weapon, give only the martial proficiency or the full exotic proficiency?

Proficiency with a weapon is proficiency, not "partial proficiency". (official rulings on clerics and tengu confirm this).

[Kaouse]

The Opportunist talent from Trap Wielder allows you to take an attack of opportunity with a ranged weapon if somebody takes damage from your dart trap or fails their save against your snare trap. Does this ranged weapon allowance include splash weapons, or class-based weapons like Alchemist Bombs or Scholar Flashbangs?

Looking into this further, while Alchemist bombs are specifically called out to be equivalent in all ways to a ranged weapon, Scholar Flashbangs are never stated to actually be a weapon, just a ranged touch attack. Does this mean that flashbangs can never make use of stuff like Precise Shot/the Sniper Sphere?

[Ssalarn]

Looking into this further, while Alchemist bombs are specifically called out to be equivalent in all ways to a ranged weapon, Scholar Flashbangs are never stated to actually be a weapon, just a ranged touch attack. Does this mean that flashbangs can never make use of stuff like Precise Shot/the Sniper Sphere?

You need to take the Trick Arrows knack to use a flashbang in conjunction with abilities like the Sniper sphere. There used to be text that specifically called them out as being an alchemical weapon and following all the related rules, but it's gone and I don't recall us removing it, so I'm doing a bit of research into when/why that happened.

[Ualaa]

Regarding the physical books.

From the kickstarter page, Adam has said they didn't get enough orders of the physical books for Spheres of Might or Champion of the Spheres for a full print run, like they did with Spheres of Power.

So they were looking into Print on Demand options, for the best possible quality on more limited print runs. They decided on one, and gave the proofs to them about a week ago. The update said that that company would be ready to print in 1-3 weeks after receiving the proofs, so I'm estimating that print books begin during or before the first week of March.

Not sure when that means we'll receive them, but they're coming.

[Kaouse]

You need to take the Trick Arrows knack to use a flashbang in conjunction with abilities like the Sniper sphere. There used to be text that specifically called them out as being an alchemical weapon and following all the related rules, but it's gone and I don't recall us removing it, so I'm doing a bit of research into when/why that happened.

Hmm...it seems like the Scholar gets the short end of the stick in a lot of corner cases. Like how they can't make effective use out of Unarmored Training since they don't have Acrobatics as a class skill, and are barred from selecting the Equipment Sphere with Martial Study. I can understand the reasoning, but it still kinda sucks that you have to expend more resources to reach parity with other classes. Though I suppose every class has to deal with that at some extent.

At any rate, what of Alchemist Bombs? Can they be used with the Opportunist talent from the Trap Sphere?

[stack]

If I recall, bombs are a standard action (or a full attack with fast bombs) so no.

[Triskavanski]

Scoundrel sphere seems to be heavily based around Dirty Trick and Steal combat maneuvers, but for whatever reason, still continues to provoke AoO. Was this intentional?

[CreepyShutIn]

Got a couple of questions here that I need to clear up for a character I'm building:

First, does Extra Combat Talent function even if you're not considered a practitioner? I assume so, since there's no prerequisite, but I'd like to confirm.

Second, reach. Large characters, and certain classes like the Hekatonkheires Symbiat, get a higher natural reach. How does that interact with the whip's unique reach ability (where you can attack anything within your reach) and the Whip Fiend talent from the Equipment sphere?

Yes, I do want to see what I can get with a Whip Fiend Hekatonkheires. Maybe with chakrams as well, for really long range. Dancer Training gives both weapons.

[Ssalarn]

Scoundrel sphere seems to be heavily based around Dirty Trick and Steal combat maneuvers, but for whatever reason, still continues to provoke AoO. Was this intentional?

I'll ping Ehn to confirm, but yes, that's intentional. The Scoundrel sphere grants the Marked Target ability which inflicts the battered condition. Battered is the condition many spheres use to prevent their maneuvers from provoking AoOs.

[torrasque666]

Got a couple of questions here that I need to clear up for a character I'm building:

First, does Extra Combat Talent function even if you're not considered a practitioner? I assume so, since there's no prerequisite, but I'd like to confirm.





Quick question due to me viewing it on the wiki and not during the playtest, but can the Extra Combat Talent feat be used to gain access to spheres without being a sphere using class?

Yes. The word "extra" does throw people off, but the feat has no prerequisites.

Yup.#10chars

[Triskavanski]

I'll ping Ehn to confirm, but yes, that's intentional. The Scoundrel sphere grants the Marked Target ability which inflicts the battered condition. Battered is the condition many spheres use to prevent their maneuvers from provoking AoOs.

I see.. Is there any rules or provisions for when something like a particular martial archetype has a feat talent that a class or race might get automatically. Like for example The Cunning Warleader has the Quick Feint talent.

[Ssalarn]

I see.. Is there any rules or provisions for when something like a particular martial archetype has a feat talent that a class or race might get automatically. Like for example The Cunning Warleader has the Quick Feint talent.

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but feinting does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Every sphere that keys off a maneuver which provokes an attack of opportunity offers some way to prevent provoking attacks of opportunity, whether that be by inflicting the battered condition or some other debuff.

There is a general rule in the introduction for SoM that states when ever you would gain a talent you already possess, ou instead gain a talent of your choice from that sphere. The associated feat rules allow you to choose a talent that has said associated feat in place of the feat whenever you would gain it, so combined with the rules on allowing you to gain another talent from the same sphere if you already have it, you should be covered in most instances of overlap. For example, if you would gain the Improved Feint feat from an archetype, you could instead take the Fast Feint talent, and if you already have Fast Feint, you could instead take any other Fencing talent you qualify for.

[Triskavanski]

Ah yeah, that second part is what I was talking about there.

[EldritchWeaver]

Hmm...it seems like the Scholar gets the short end of the stick in a lot of corner cases. Like how they can't make effective use out of Unarmored Training since they don't have Acrobatics as a class skill, and are barred from selecting the Equipment Sphere with Martial Study.

Unarmored Training keys of skill ranks and in PF you can buy them normally, so the scholar isn't impacted there, compared to every other class and build.

[digiman619]

Unarmored Training keys of skill ranks and in PF you can buy them normally, so the scholar isn't impacted there, compared to every other class and build.

Technically it only does that if you have Acrobatics as a class skill, but there are tons of ways to get it.

[Kaouse]

Technically it only does that if you have Acrobatics as a class skill, but there are tons of ways to get it.

Namely through the spending of traits, hence my comment of "spending resources to reach parity." That said, there are a few races that can make it a class skill via an alternate racial trait, a la "Fey Thoughts," so there's that at least.

[RedMop]

it seems like the Scholar gets the short end of the stick in a lot of corner cases.

If every class could be good at every thing, why have more than 1 class?

[Kaouse]

If every class could be good at every thing, why have more than 1 class?

That's kind of a straw man of my post, where I also said:


Though I suppose every class has to deal with that at some extent.

I'm not arguing for the class to be god tier at everything, just pointing out that there are some cases where the rules of the game do not favor it.

Flashbangs not being considered a weapon means that there are a lot of system elements that don't work with them, like Precise Shot from the Sniper Sphere or Point Blank Shot from the Barrage Sphere, which call out "weapons" specifically.

Considering the fact that these two are basically the cornerstone of every ranged build ever, it's a pretty glaring omission that doesn't exist in base Pathfinder, where Rays and Alchemist Bombs are properly classified as weapons.

And just as a final point, know that such a line of thinking can just as easily be used as justification to never improve terrible classes like the Core Fighter or Rogue or Monk, because, hey, if every class could be good at every thing, why have more than 1 class?

[Kaouse]

On a semi-unrelated note, let's talk more about Traps from the Trap Sphere.

1. Do traps take a penalty for firing into melee? If so, do they benefit from stuff like Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Deadly Shot, Barrage, et al?

2. If somebody takes the Expert Eye talent, and are able to use their skill in Craft (traps) in place of Perception against traps and Disable Device against traps, do they need to use Thieves Tools, or would a Trap Bag suffice? If they had Masterwork Thieves Tools, would they receive the +2 bonus?

EDIT: On a completely unrelated note, When creating poison from the Alchemy Sphere's Poison Package, is there ever a benefit to using an injury poison over a contact poison?

[Zsaber0]

On a semi-unrelated note, let's talk more about Traps from the Trap Sphere.

1. Do traps take a penalty for firing into melee? If so, do they benefit from stuff like Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Deadly Shot, Barrage, et al?

2. If somebody takes the Expert Eye talent, and are able to use their skill in Craft (traps) in place of Perception against traps and Disable Device against traps, do they need to use Thieves Tools, or would a Trap Bag suffice? If they had Masterwork Thieves Tools, would they receive the +2 bonus?

EDIT: On a completely unrelated note, When creating poison from the Alchemy Sphere's Poison Package, is there ever a benefit to using an injury poison over a contact poison?

In addition to this, is there a way to get Trapfinding in Sphere of Might?

[EldritchWeaver]

In addition to this, is there a way to get Trapfinding in Sphere of Might?

Not in the book, but I happened to ask Adam this question, too. He likes the following Trap talent:


Device Expert

You gain 5 ranks in the Disable Device skill, plus 5 ranks per additional talent spent in the Trap sphere (maximum ranks equal to your total Hit Dice). If you already have ranks in the Disable Device skill you may immediately retrain them, but you do not get to retrain when only temporarily gaining talents, such as through the armiger’s customized weapons class feature.

In addition you may disable magical traps like a rogue.

[Eldaran]

Is there any news on a talent or something to utilize haste effects with Spheres of Might?

[Triskavanski]

does spheres have anything for being able to move around in heavier armor?

[Hunter Noventa]

Not in the book, but I happened to ask Adam this question, too. He likes the following Trap talent:

The Technician class gets Trapfinding as well.


A technician adds 1/2 his level on Perception checks to locate traps and on all Disable Device checks (minimum +1). A technician can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.

[EldritchWeaver]

I suppose the correct formulation would be: "There is no class independent way to gain trapfinding in the book." I don't think that someone would dip into a class to get rogue's trapfinding since you lose out the class dependent bonus.

[digiman619]

does spheres have anything for being able to move around in heavier armor?

The Conscript's Armor Training will let you move at full speed in medium armor, but you can't take it until 3rd level. At 8th you get it with heavy armor.

[decamonos]

The Prodigy ability "Destructive Edge" mentions it does not stack with "the corrosive, flaming, frost, or shock special abilities or similar abilities that add damage of the same type."

Is the intent that it only not stack with the same kind of energy damage, or any effects that add energy damage? Or is 'similar abilities' meant to denote something more specific?

[digiman619]

The Prodigy ability "Destructive Edge" mentions it does not stack with "the corrosive, flaming, frost, or shock special abilities or similar abilities that add damage of the same type."

Is the intent that it only not stack with the same kind of energy damage, or any effects that add energy damage? Or is 'similar abilities' meant to denote something more specific?

I'm pretty sure they mean the flaming burst, shocking burst et al.

[QuadraticGish]

For the Technician's Mad Scientist (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/mad-scientist) archetype, what are Unethical Inventions treated as for purposes of applying improvements on? What Improvements can you apply to them?

[Kaouse]

On a semi-unrelated note, let's talk more about Traps from the Trap Sphere.

1. Do traps take a penalty for firing into melee? If so, do they benefit from stuff like Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Deadly Shot, Barrage, et al?

2. If somebody takes the Expert Eye talent, and are able to use their skill in Craft (traps) in place of Perception against traps and Disable Device against traps, do they need to use Thieves Tools, or would a Trap Bag suffice? If they had Masterwork Thieves Tools, would they receive the +2 bonus?

EDIT: On a completely unrelated note, When creating poison from the Alchemy Sphere's Poison Package, is there ever a benefit to using an injury poison over a contact poison?

Bumping this. Concerning the earlier point on Flashbangs, it seems as though the penalty for firing into melee only applies to ranged weapons. For Flashbangs and Traps, if they don't count as weapons, they theoretically wouldn't take the penalty either.

Oh the perils of linguistic legalese.

[Wartex1]

Still waiting for an official guide on converting Spellcasters to practitioners when said Spellcasters has a class feature that affects Spellcasting such as Skald's Spell Kenning.

Or just, well, a Skald Archetype for SoM.

[Aipaca]

Still waiting for an official guide on converting Spellcasters to practitioners when said Spellcasters has a class feature that affects Spellcasting such as Skald's Spell Kenning.

Or just, well, a Skald Archetype for SoM.

I feel like any generalised guide would be insufficient, as "class feature that alters spellcasting" is such a broad umbrella that it would be impossible to give any meaningful guidance. Either homebrew or waiting for specific archetypes is going to be your best bet.

[digiman619]

Still waiting for an official guide on converting Spellcasters to practitioners when said Spellcasters has a class feature that affects Spellcasting such as Skald's Spell Kenning.

Or just, well, a Skald Archetype for SoM.

Well, and this is just me spitballing, I'd say that a Sphere Skald would likely me a Midcaster/Adept class with the Berserker and War spheres, and if I had make a ruling on Spell Kenning, I'd let them have a free talent that they can reallocate 1-3/day.

But I'm not a dev and I'm just throwing ideas out.

[stack]

1. Do traps take a penalty for firing into melee? If so, do they benefit from stuff like Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Deadly Shot, Barrage, et al?

2. If somebody takes the Expert Eye talent, and are able to use their skill in Craft (traps) in place of Perception against traps and Disable Device against traps, do they need to use Thieves Tools, or would a Trap Bag suffice? If they had Masterwork Thieves Tools, would they receive the +2 bonus?

Looking at the exact wording in the combat section of the CRB, it says:

If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll.

It would make this a bit clearer if it said a ranged attack roll, but oh well. I suppose the simplest thing is probably to just treat it as a ranged weapon attack for the penalties and such, but then you get the question of if the trap provokes an AOO. Treating a set trap differently from a wielded (via Trap Wielder) trap would have advantages, but is injecting extra complexity into the discussion. Tentative ruling is that darts don't take penalties for firing into melee (the dart really doesn't care who it hits :smallbiggrin:), so PBS, Precise Shot, etc. don't apply or aren't required. Trap wielder does specify that darts provoke as a ranged attack when using it, however.

As for tools, I would say that thieves tools would grant their bonus to craft (trap) when used in place of disable device. I would probably allow the trap bag to substitute since ultimately mundane equipment like that is a trivial cost so I can't see the difference mattering after the lowest levels.

[Kaouse]

Thanks for answering my question, stack.


Looking at the exact wording in the combat section of the CRB, it says:


It would make this a bit clearer if it said a ranged attack roll, but oh well. I suppose the simplest thing is probably to just treat it as a ranged weapon attack for the penalties and such, but then you get the question of if the trap provokes an AOO. Treating a set trap differently from a wielded (via Trap Wielder) trap would have advantages, but is injecting extra complexity into the discussion. Tentative ruling is that darts don't take penalties for firing into melee (the dart really doesn't care who it hits :smallbiggrin:), so PBS, Precise Shot, etc. don't apply or aren't required. Trap wielder does specify that darts provoke as a ranged attack when using it, however.

As for tools, I would say that thieves tools would grant their bonus to craft (trap) when used in place of disable device. I would probably allow the trap bag to substitute since ultimately mundane equipment like that is a trivial cost so I can't see the difference mattering after the lowest levels.

So since Scholar Flashbangs aren't considered weapons either, do they also not take the penalty for firing into melee, nor gain the benefit from PBS and Precise Shot?

[kkplx]

Q 400?

Can you use a feat to gain exotic proficiency via equipment sphere's Custom Training, then trade in that proficiency to gain a martial tradition?

[EldritchWeaver]

Q 400?

Can you use a feat to gain exotic proficiency via equipment sphere's Custom Training, then trade in that proficiency to gain a martial tradition?

A400?: This assumes that gaining a feat is happening before you can choose a martial tradition.


Some classes grant a martial tradition as part of their proficiencies, but characters who do not may choose to trade their starting proficiencies (other than simple weapons, light armor, and bucklers, if applicable) for a martial tradition at 1st level, as long as their normal starting proficiencies include proficiency with all martial weapons or at least one exotic weapon (this does not include clerics whose deity’s favored weapon is an exotic weapon or similar features that modify starting proficiencies based on other character choices). Some classes who do not gain proficiency with all martial weapons but whose class description implies a strong martial background may trade their starting proficiencies for a martial tradition with GM approval.

Since taking a feat definitively contradicts the bolded part, the asnwer is no.

[stack]

Q 400?

Can you use a feat to gain exotic proficiency via equipment sphere's Custom Training, then trade in that proficiency to gain a martial tradition?

From the text on trading in traditions:
Some classes grant a martial tradition as part of their proficiencies, but characters who do not may choose to trade their starting proficiencies (other than simple weapons, light armor, and bucklers, if applicable) for a martial tradition at 1st level, as long as their normal starting proficiencies include proficiency with all martial weapons or at least one exotic weapon (this does not include clerics whose deity’s favored weapon is an exotic weapon or similar features that modify starting proficiencies based on other character choices). Some classes who do not gain proficiency with all martial weapons but whose class description implies a strong martial background may trade their starting proficiencies for a martial tradition with GM approval.

Believe feats would fall under modified proficiency based on player choice.

Edit - beat me to it.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Q401: Since the dart trap from the Trap Sphere requires you to make ranged attack rolls when it's triggered, would a Rogue get sneak attack damage on that attack if applicable (such as if the target hit is flat-footed)?

Q402: Is there any way to apply two (Trick) talents to a single Steal or Dirty Trick maneuver? I'm trying to figure out a way to combine Broke and Broken with Ranged Trickery to Steal from a distance.

[ICN]

A Wrestling sphere question and a bunch of Sage questions; I apologize if these have come up before. I couldn't find anything when searching.

Q 402: For the Wrestling sphere talent Ground Game (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/wrestling#toc5) and similar abilities, am I missing something? You can't take attacks of opportunities with the grappled condition, and nothing I can see in the Wrestling sphere changes that.

Q 403: Is there any way to apply an enhancement bonus to the Sage's chi gong (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sage#toc3) attack? It kind of gets murdered by DR otherwise.

Q 404: Chi gong counts as a light weapon, which means it's eligible for use with the energy blade (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/destruction#toc25) talent; is that intentional?

Q 405: Does an Enhancer Sage (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sage#toc7) get any bonus if they take the lingering enhancement (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/enhancement#toc6) talent?

Q 406: Do the bonus dice provided by the meditation (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sage#toc11) ability have an action cost?

Q 407: Can the Sage manipulate items in any way within the reach of the Rubber Ki (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sage#toc43) ability?

Q 408: For the infuser combat maneuver replacement thingy (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sage#toc8), should any penalties carried by the combat maneuver attempt carry over to the reflex save dc? e.g. the open hand sphere allows an unarmed trip attempt as a move action, but at a -2 penalty. If the Sage replaces that trip attempt with the infuser ability, should the reflex save DC be reduced by two?

Q 409: Do Sage magic talents count as ki abilities for the purposes of the ring of ki mastery (http://archivesofnethys.com/MagicRingsDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Ring%20of%20Ki%20 Mastery)?

[Kaouse]

Is it intended for SOM archtypes that change proficiency to be incompatible with existing archtypes that also change proficiency? I remember the issue being raised before, but I don't see any wording that would allow them to be compatible.

[Kaouse]

Is it intended for SOM archtypes that change proficiency to be incompatible with existing archtypes that also change proficiency? I remember the issue being raised before, but I don't see any wording that would allow them to be compatible.

While I wait for this minefield to be navigated, I had another question about the Trap Sphere. Specifically the Razor wire snare talent, which says:


Razor Wire
When you place the tripwire snare, you may choose to have it deal 1d6 slashing damage + 1d6 at 3 ranks in Craft (traps) and every 2 ranks thereafter to the triggering creature. Alchemical items cannot be added to this snare. A razor wire snare otherwise functions as a tripwire snare.

Emphasis mine. My question really boils down to this: do poisons count as alchemical items? The Trap Sphere does seem to draw a distinction between the two, but I just wanted to be sure.

[stack]

While I wait for this minefield to be navigated, I had another question about the Trap Sphere. Specifically the Razor wire snare talent, which says:



Emphasis mine. My question really boils down to this: do poisons count as alchemical items? The Trap Sphere does seem to draw a distinction between the two, but I just wanted to be sure.

I think allowing poisons is probably fine. I think things in the alchemy sphere weren't entirely solidified when I put that wording in.

[Kaouse]

I think allowing poisons is probably fine. I think things in the alchemy sphere weren't entirely solidified when I put that wording in.

Thanks for the quick answer, here are some more questions while I wait for information regarding proficiencies and archetypes.

Can you take 10 on Craft Alchemy checks to craft an alchemical Formulae talent from the Alchemy Sphere? Can the Scholar take 10 on Heal checks using their Medical Training class features?

As you can see, I'm a little bit iffy on the take 10 rules. When can and can't you take 10?

[EldritchWeaver]

Can you take 10 on Craft Alchemy checks to craft an alchemical Formulae talent from the Alchemy Sphere? Can the Scholar take 10 on Heal checks using their Medical Training class features?

As you can see, I'm a little bit iffy on the take 10 rules. When can and can't you take 10?

Strictly speaking not in combat. Which is a bit of a problem for the Heal stuff. If you don't optimize at low levels, you have a chance to fail the DC and then lose also a chance to apply a heal. IMO, it would have been better to allow take 10. Especially since it reduces the healing variance. Basically you could have said "I always take 10" and you would know how much hp you heal automatically.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Q401: Since the dart trap from the Trap Sphere requires you to make ranged attack rolls when it's triggered, would a Rogue get sneak attack damage on that attack if applicable (such as if the target hit is flat-footed)?

Q402: Is there any way to apply two (Trick) talents to a single Steal or Dirty Trick maneuver? I'm trying to figure out a way to combine Broke and Broken with Ranged Trickery to Steal from a distance.

Just want to make sure this is seen while we’re talking about traps and trickery

[ICN]

Another question:
Q 412: As written, if a creature is affected by the Bind Weapon (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/duelist#toc3) talent from the Duelist sphere, they cannot move, but can still use their weapon or natural attack. Is that intentional?

[Triskavanski]

Q 413: Barroom Sphere - is this suppose to count as Throw Anything/Catch off Guard for the purposes of feats?

Cause there is the Grenade Expert feat that requires Throw Anything, but Throw anything is redundant with Barroom Sphere

[stack]

Another question:
Q 412: As written, if a creature is affected by the Bind Weapon (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/duelist#toc3) talent from the Duelist sphere, they cannot move, but can still use their weapon or natural attack. Is that intentional?

The language explicitly preventing the use of the bound weapon must have been lost at some point. You are not supposed to be able to use a bound weapon.

[ICN]

The language explicitly preventing the use of the bound weapon must have been lost at some point. You are not supposed to be able to use a bound weapon.

Just to be perfectly clear, the creature that uses the bind weapon talent cannot; I'm referring to the creature affected by it, in case that didn't come through.

[stack]

Just to be perfectly clear, the creature that uses the bind weapon talent cannot; I'm referring to the creature affected by it, in case that didn't come through.

Neither the weapon used to bind nor the weapon that is bound can be used during the bind.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Just to be perfectly clear, the creature that uses the bind weapon talent cannot; I'm referring to the creature affected by it, in case that didn't come through.

Pretty sure stack means that language preventing the affected creature from doing so as well is supposed to exist

[BlackDragonKing]

Quick question on order of operations for certain combinations of talents:

Let's say I'm playing a conscript who specialized in the Brute sphere. When I successfully drag, bull rush, reposition, or overrun an enemy while I have martial focus, I can make a trip or grapple attempt against them as an attack of opportunity. Down the line, I take the Drop (Manhandle) talent, which lets me trip an enemy as a free action when I successfully drag, bull rush, reposition, or overrun them.

Would I be able to choose the order these triggers go off in, letting me do something like bull rush > grapple as an AoO > apply Drop to trip, activating talents like Rollercoaster?

As a side note, with Drop it notes that if you also have the hammer talent you can damage your enemy with the trip as though the ground was a wall. Am I correct to assume this only applies to trips made as a manhandle, not any trip a character who possesses both the Drop and Hammer talents performs?

[Triskavanski]

Q 413: Barroom Sphere - is this suppose to count as Throw Anything/Catch off Guard for the purposes of feats?

Cause there is the Grenade Expert feat that requires Throw Anything, but Throw anything is redundant with Barroom Sphere

I've still got this one.

Also does SoM have Herolab files?

[digiman619]

I've still got this one.

Also does SoM have Herolab files?

I know they're working on it (it was part of the stretch goals that was made), but I've no word on if it's out yet, though I do plan on buying it when it does. Which reminds me:

So did you guys get the prints back yet? You said that it'd take a week or three to get a final print run on them, and as soon as you did, you could begin sending physical copies to your backers. That was a month ago. Any news on when we can expect them?

[QuadraticGish]

Q 414 What does a Mad Scientist (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/mad-scientist)'s unethical science inventions count as for applying improvements?

[EldritchWeaver]

Also does SoM have Herolab files?

The guy responsible is working on them, but this may take awhile. Not before summer is my expectation.

[ICN]

A Wrestling sphere question and a bunch of Sage questions; I apologize if these have come up before. I couldn't find anything when searching.

Q 402: For the Wrestling sphere talent Ground Game (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/wrestling#toc5) and similar abilities, am I missing something? You can't take attacks of opportunities with the grappled condition, and nothing I can see in the Wrestling sphere changes that.

Q 403: Is there any way to apply an enhancement bonus to the Sage's chi gong (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sage#toc3) attack? It kind of gets murdered by DR otherwise.

Q 404: Chi gong counts as a light weapon, which means it's eligible for use with the energy blade (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/destruction#toc25) talent; is that intentional?

Q 405: Does an Enhancer Sage (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sage#toc7) get any bonus if they take the lingering enhancement (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/enhancement#toc6) talent?

Q 406: Do the bonus dice provided by the meditation (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sage#toc11) ability have an action cost?

Q 407: Can the Sage manipulate items in any way within the reach of the Rubber Ki (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sage#toc43) ability?

Q 408: For the infuser combat maneuver replacement thingy (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sage#toc8), should any penalties carried by the combat maneuver attempt carry over to the reflex save dc? e.g. the open hand sphere allows an unarmed trip attempt as a move action, but at a -2 penalty. If the Sage replaces that trip attempt with the infuser ability, should the reflex save DC be reduced by two?

Q 409: Do Sage magic talents count as ki abilities for the purposes of the ring of ki mastery (http://archivesofnethys.com/MagicRingsDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Ring%20of%20Ki%20 Mastery)?

Bumping for visibility

[Ualaa]

I've still got this one.

Also does SoM have Herolab files?

The Hero Lab files are not out yet.

According to the guy who's working on them, progress is being made.
It's the same guy who made the Spheres of Power files, and the files for the related handbooks as well.

He has a thread for Spheres of Power, which gets the odd Spheres of Might question, on the Wolflair Hero Lab forum.

[Scowling Dragon]

What does sphere specialization do when your Sphere is Skill based?

[ChrisAsmadi]

Is intentional that using the default option to trade proficiencies out for a martial tradition causes a character to lose any special class proficiencies (eg, Soulknives would lose their Mindblade proficiency)?

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Is intentional that using the default option to trade proficiencies out for a martial tradition causes a character to lose any special class proficiencies (eg, Soulknives would lose their Mindblade proficiency)?

It shouldn’t, since you only trade out your “All martial” or “One or more exotic” proficiencies

[torrasque666]

Can attacks that deal non-lethal damage inflict Bleed through the Duelist sphere?

[ChrisAsmadi]

It shouldn’t, since you only trade out your “All martial” or “One or more exotic” proficiencies


but characters who do not may choose to trade their starting proficiencies (other than simple weapons, light armor, and bucklers, if applicable) for a martial tradition at 1st level,

The way I read it makes it seem like since special ones aren't on the keep list, you lose 'em.

e: Is it intentional that Runic Knight adapts Spellstrike so that it works with ranged weapons but doesn't change Spell Combat (beyond getting it late) so you can use it with ranged weapons?

[torrasque666]

Regarding a Battlefield Tinkerer using a Dual Blade: You don't have to sheathe the weapon to change modes, so what happens if a Battlefield Tinkerer splits his Dual Blade and then wants to change the mode to a different weapon?

[Galacktic]

Question! Does the Battle Companion archetype for animal companions allow them to take a Martial Tradition or no?

[kkplx]

Same question for the archetype for conjuration companions - do they gain a tradition? Or only the progression and if natuiral attacks are given up 1 instance of battle creature?

[stack]

Same question for the archetype for conjuration companions - do they gain a tradition? Or only the progression and if natuiral attacks are given up 1 instance of battle creature?

They do not gain a tradition.

[RedMop]

Anything for Armor Spikes?

[N. Jolly]

A Wrestling sphere question and a bunch of Sage questions; I apologize if these have come up before. I couldn't find anything when searching.

Q 402: For the Wrestling sphere talent Ground Game (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/wrestling#toc5) and similar abilities, am I missing something? You can't take attacks of opportunities with the grappled condition, and nothing I can see in the Wrestling sphere changes that.

A 402: This is intended to allow you to break the normal rules for grappling, falling under the specific (the ability allowing you to make an AoO) trumping the general (no AoOs allowed during grapple).

I hate to say that you probably won't get sage answers because Michael's busy with other projects, and he was the designer of that class unless someone else on SoM/CotS wants to chip in with answers about it.

[Nyaa]

Can martial shifter (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/martial-shifter) get combat training for non-spheres of might classes (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/using-spheres-of-might#toc4)?

[Ssalarn]

Q 403: Is there any way to apply an enhancement bonus to the Sage's chi gong attack? It kind of gets murdered by DR otherwise.

No, though since it can be applied as a rider on unarmed strikes or natural attacks, scales up to 10d6, and is normally a touch attack when not used as a rider its damage curve is pretty solid.



Q 404: Chi gong counts as a light weapon, which means it's eligible for use with the energy blade talent; is that intentional?
Yes, though there has since been some talk of errata that might affect this in the future. Currently that is a perfectly viable option.


Q 405: Does an Enhancer Sage get any bonus if they take the lingering enhancement talent?
It would extend the duration of any (enhance) talents he gained, but it would not extend non-talent class features.


Q 406: Do the bonus dice provided by the meditation ability have an action cost?
No. The dice are added as part of the same action used for the check they modify, or as a non-action when used to enhance CMD.


Q 407: Can the Sage manipulate items in any way within the reach of the Rubber Ki ability?
Only insofar as it would allow him to attempt an unarmed strike or melee touch attack against the items. It's not a delicate enough ability for fine manipulation of objects.


Q 408: For the infuser combat maneuver replacement thingy, should any penalties carried by the combat maneuver attempt carry over to the reflex save dc? e.g. the open hand sphere allows an unarmed trip attempt as a move action, but at a -2 penalty. If the Sage replaces that trip attempt with the infuser ability, should the reflex save DC be reduced by two?

Yes.



Q 409: Do Sage magic talents count as ki abilities for the purposes of the ring of ki mastery?


Yes, though the "minimum 1 ki point" cost still applies.

[Galacktic]

Regarding the Sage again, can their Chi Gong dice get multiplied on a crit? They're not precision damage - they're piercing - so I could see arguments either way.

[RedMop]

Armiger Workflow Check

Armiger 6
Prowess:

Line Breaker

Talents:

Barrage (Base, Mobile Focus)
Sniper (Base)
Equipment (Huntsman, Splitshot, Shortbow Mastery)

Feats:

Great Focus
Vital Strike

Weapon: Shortbow
Customized Weapon: 3 different groups of 50 arrows
Stats: 10/20/10/10/10/10
Default attack: +14/+9 = +6 (BAB) +5 (Dex) +2 (+1 from bow, +1 from Enhanced Customization) +1 (Point Blank from Barrage)

Stating with both foci

Start with Barrage Expending Focus using group 1 arrows

+8 (14-4-2 w/ Vital Strike @ target 1) / +8 (14-4-2 Splitshot @ target 2 w/o Vital Strike) / +10 (14-4 First Extra Barrage Attack @ target 1 w/o Vital Strike) / +10 (14-4 Second Extra Barrage Attack @ target 1 w/o Vital Strike)
+9 (14-5 Shortbow Mastery @ target 1 w/o Vital Strike)

If any of those hit, Expend Focus and switch to group 2 arrows

Move between 10 ft and 1/2 move to regain a focus with Mobile Focus w/p provoking from target 1 with Linebreaker
+12 (14-2 Rapid Assault w/o Vital Strike)

If any of those crit, spend immediate action to switch to any other group of arrows and recover focus.

Likely end with 1 Focus, so I can do all of this again if I can recover 1 focus during the barrage.

I can also start off with Sniper's Deadly shot in the first block to

+12 (12-2 w/ Vital Strike and Deadly Shot Damage @ target 1) / +12 (14-2) Splitshot @ target 2 w/o Vital Strike
+9 (14-5 Shortbow Mastery @ target 1 w/o Vital Strike)

[ICN]

Answers

Answers

Answers

Thank you all very much for the answers!

[stack]

Redmop - you cannot regain focus more than once per round.

[RedMop]

Redmop - you cannot regain focus more than once per round.

I knew, I just didn't type.

The rest look all good?

[Kaouse]

Is it intended for SOM archtypes that change proficiency to be incompatible with existing archtypes that also change proficiency? I remember the issue being raised before, but I don't see any wording that would allow them to be compatible.

Just bumping this, since it's been a while.

[Quarian Rex]

Hey, Ssalarn, I asked this in the Spheres of Power AMA, but don't seem to be getting any response. It's similar to the question you answered, so I'm gonna go ahead and repost it here;



Q430: Would it be reasonable to consider Telekinesis' Bludgeon as an "Attack Action" for the purpose of working with Spheres of Might? I understand that SoP obviously came out first and couldn't have predicted its followup martial counterpart, but it's a weird situation where base Paizo combat feats, such as Power Attack, are specifically called out as functioning with it if you have Dancing Weapon and Flair. I personally think that if you're invested enough into TK to have a good 5 talents or so to be able to reasonably use weapons with it, that you shouldn't be unable to combine Might's techniques with it. Hell, maybe make another talent to specifically allow that if it's a balance issue to piggyback SoM usage with the existing set of talents?

As an addendum; Mobile Bludgeon allows you to make a full attack action. To me, it seems entirely reasonable for Telekinesis to have a way to work with Spheres of Might when so much work has gone into letting it work with Paizo feats.


I have copied it verbatim to avoid any confusion. If you are unfamiliar with certain aspects of TK, I'll be glad to explain.

So, here's my understanding: Adam is very aware of this question and has been discussing whether or not it's something that should simply be backported via errata, or it if it's powerful enough to justify putting it behind a feat or talent gate. I'll let you know when I have more information.

I was just going through Telekinesis with an eye for combining the two Spheres product lines and searched to see if this was resolved. Looks like not so much yet. I think that a good rule of thumb would be that anything that lets an effect be used as a normal attack in virtually all ways (standard attack, full attack, can use associated feats with it, counts as a weapon or natural/unarmed attack, etc.) should allow it to be used fully in SoM.

For Telekinesis that would be the Dancing Weapon (counts as a weapon and allows melee feats w/Flair), Flair (allows ranged feats), and Mobile Bludgeon (allows full attacks) talents (possibly adding Divided Mind if you wanted to wield more than one weapon at a time). That would be a total talent cost of 4 (or 5 w/Divided Mind) if you count the cost of the Telekinesis base sphere. There would be absolutely no need for any other feat/talent tax to get this done. Perhaps shaving a couple of those off as requirements would be ideal.

Most of this was heavily implied in the clarifications in Ch 7 of the Telekinetics Handbook but I think that this sort of thing needs to be spelled out a bit so we know what's already on the table.

Thoughts?

[Doc_Maynot]

Regarding the Sage again, can their Chi Gong dice get multiplied on a crit? They're not precision damage - they're piercing - so I could see arguments either way.

Only flat non precision damage, base weapon damage, and damage that calls itself an exception to the previous gets multiplied on a crit.

So it would seem that the Chi Gong gets multiplied, only when as its own strike. Not when adding it to your unarmed damage or similar.


Can martial shifter (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/martial-shifter) get combat training for non-spheres of might classes (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/using-spheres-of-might#toc4)?

To quote Champions of the Spheres: "A class or archetype that gains Blended Training counts as possessing the Combat Training class feature for all purposes." So no, they could not.

[Zsaber0]

Q 415

If you have the Fencing and Dual Wielding spheres, and you execute a Dual Attack, do both the main hand and offhand get Fatal Thrust damage, or just the main hand?

[NomGarret]

I would say no, as only the main attack counts as an attack action.

[RedMop]

I would say no, as only the main attack counts as an attack action.

Agreed. It follows the pattern of everything else.

[Manyasone]

Agreed. It follows the pattern of everything else.

What? Do all the special attacks stack on top of each other?

[master4sword]

What? Do all the special attacks stack on top of each other?

Pretty much every attack action that gives multiple attacks (such as dual attack) states that only the first attack counts as an attack action, so things like fatal thrust (which requires an attack action) don't trigger on the second attack.

[Manyasone]

Pretty much every attack action that gives multiple attacks (such as dual attack) states that only the first attack counts as an attack action, so things like fatal thrust (which requires an attack action) don't trigger on the second attack.

So Bleeding attack stacks with dual attack stacks with fatal thrust etc etc? I would really like a developer perspective on that

[EldritchWeaver]

So Bleeding attack stacks with dual attack stacks with fatal thrust etc etc? I would really like a developer perspective on that

Every attack action effect can be stacked. But only one these effects can be triggered by a special attack action.


Special Attack Action A special attack action represents a unique method of making an attack. These special attack actions are granted by certain spheres and talents, and whenever a creature makes an attack action, they may choose to perform a special attack action they know, assuming they meet that special attack action’s requirements. A special attack action can be augmented by feats and talents just as if it were any other attack action, but a creature cannot perform more than one special attack action at a time. (Thus, if a character trained in both the Barrage sphere and the Sniper sphere makes an attack action, they may choose to perform a barrage or a deadly shot, but not both.)

[Zsaber0]

So because dual attack specifically says only the main hand attack counts as an attack action, fatal thrust only affects that one attack. But because barrage doesn't say anything of the sort every barrage attack can deliver fatal thrust damage if the target is within 30 and flatfooted?

Unless I am blind and just can't find the part in barrage where it says it can't.

[ICN]

So because dual attack specifically says only the main hand attack counts as an attack action, fatal thrust only affects that one attack. But because barrage doesn't say anything of the sort every barrage attack can deliver fatal thrust damage if the target is within 30 and flatfooted?

Unless I am blind and just can't find the part in barrage where it says it can't.

The text was lost in an update somewhere, but only the first attack is supposed to count as an attack action.

[exelsisxax]

I thought anesthetic dosage was cool at first read, but I can't figure out how to make it anything other than hot garbage. The duration is 1 minute that doesn't scale, and as a poison it can't be prepped before combat. It's a move action to make one dose, because the poison package doesn't share the ability to make multiple items at once that formula allows. You need a standard action to use it, because it's ingested only. On top of all that, it only provides benefits up to once an hour.

Am i missing something, or does it really suck this much?

[meemaas]

There are talents that work well with it, Delayed poison works if you know when combat will be, while Ingested Application can be used to add it to food and have it hold for between a day and a week. While certainly not optimal it is still a reasonable way to use it. Or let your allies use it.

[exelsisxax]

There are talents that work well with it, Delayed poison works if you know when combat will be, while Ingested Application can be used to add it to food and have it hold for between a day and a week. While certainly not optimal it is still a reasonable way to use it. Or let your allies use it.

The wording on that confused me: it says it extends the duration by one day to 48 hours - meaning the poison lasts 24 hours normally. And I went and found my PDF rather than using the wiki, and poisons work exactly like formulae. Was there a stealth nerf errata i missed?

[meemaas]

The wording on that confused me: it says it extends the duration by one day to 48 hours - meaning the poison lasts 24 hours normally. And I went and found my PDF rather than using the wiki, and poisons work exactly like formulae. Was there a stealth nerf errata i missed?

The pdf was updated within a month of release that changed it. The version on the wiki is accurate. But I think the talent may have gotten missed when they changed the poison mechanics.

You should probably redownload your spheres of might pdf to get the accurate version.

[exelsisxax]

The pdf was updated within a month of release that changed it. The version on the wiki is accurate. But I think the talent may have gotten missed when they changed the poison mechanics.

You should probably redownload your spheres of might pdf to get the accurate version.

Indeed it is, and that's super lame.

stack, N. Jolly, Ssalarn I summon thee to fix this. Can it have a reserve supply or something at eh very least?

[Kaouse]

Actually, Ingested Application is a really good way of buffing up any potions and other potables your team regularly relies on. I forget though, is there a limit to how much poison you can have active at a time? I know a limit for Formulae exist, but otherwise, I would like to know if I could go wild with poisoning everything.

[dude123nice]

Doesn't Barroom sphere have talents to drink things faster?

[exelsisxax]

Doesn't Barroom sphere have talents to drink things faster?

I do not believe that poisons count as alcoholic beverages.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I do not believe that poisons count as alcoholic beverages.

Ingested Application to poison a six pack of beers? Alternately, Brewkeeper lets you blend alchemy and alcohol

[Lirya]

If you are using Barroom Sphere to drink faster, then I think Go Limp (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/barroom#toc28) and Miracle Drink (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/barroom#toc20) are better talents than the poison ones.

I personally think Poison is a waste of talents unless you play a support role with your practitioner modifier as your main stat.

[exelsisxax]

If you are using Barroom Sphere to drink faster, then I think Go Limp (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/barroom#toc28) and Miracle Drink (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/barroom#toc20) are better talents than the poison ones.

I personally think Poison is a waste of talents unless you play a support role with your practitioner modifier as your main stat.

It's a damn shame that DDS thinks go limp should be a legendary talent.

Still, anesthetic dosage doesn't even work without at least one other talent.

[N. Jolly]

I thought anesthetic dosage was cool at first read, but I can't figure out how to make it anything other than hot garbage. The duration is 1 minute that doesn't scale, and as a poison it can't be prepped before combat. It's a move action to make one dose, because the poison package doesn't share the ability to make multiple items at once that formula allows. You need a standard action to use it, because it's ingested only. On top of all that, it only provides benefits up to once an hour.

Am i missing something, or does it really suck this much?

I can say that I was probably overly cautious on this one, and that the no contact/inhaled was probably too much of a restriction. I'd probably let people play it as a contact poison myself, and if we ever jump back into the book for edits, that will be one that I make.

[exelsisxax]

I can say that I was probably overly cautious on this one, and that the no contact/inhaled was probably too much of a restriction. I'd probably let people play it as a contact poison myself, and if we ever jump back into the book for edits, that will be one that I make.

That's still awful. A full-round action that provokes to give a short-ranged short-duration buff to yourself or one ally that is useful only in combat(or moments before intentional long falls?) but doesn't increase offensive power or keep people conscious. It's worse in every way than temp HP while active, with the added stipulation that you can't reactivate it. The only benefit it provides to anyone that isn't an invulnerable rager is to increase your death threshold and make healing slightly more efficient. Neither is anywhere large enough to be worth it, especially since the alchemy sphere can already produce extreme free healing, restricted only by per-creature use caps.

A per-round effect, bonuses against attacks that are already nonlethal, and immunity or immense bonuses against pain effects seems like a bare minimum to me.

I really wish I had been paying more attention during the playtest.

edit: doesn't even help invulnerable ragers, actually.

[dude123nice]

I do not believe that poisons count as alcoholic beverages.

Doesn't Double Chug specify that you can drink one magical and one non magical drink as a move action? Or are they referring to magical alcoholic drinks?

[EldritchWeaver]

I really wish I had been paying more attention during the playtest.

Poison was liked in the first version, then got nerfed in the second round, which people complained about. As reaction (or complaints were ignored) poisons were nerfed again, and even feat taxes which were promised aren't included. Which means that from the promise, that poisons are made worth it, is nothing left. They are even worse than the Paizo ones. Not sure what could have been done instead.

[N. Jolly]

Poison was liked in the first version, then got nerfed in the second round, which people complained about. As reaction (or complaints were ignored) poisons were nerfed again, and even feat taxes which were promised aren't included. Which means that from the promise, that poisons are made worth it, is nothing left. They are even worse than the Paizo ones. Not sure what could have been done instead.

Let me talk about Poisons here; they're hard to make a a primary thing for the following reason: If they're good to include, they're CRAZY easy to add into anything else. If poisons could be made/applied as free actions, there's literally no reason why not to dip into them and make them just bonus damage/status/etc. And if we'd done that, we'd have gotten more complains about SoM pushing poison as the one true playstyle/powercreep/etc. In situations like this, we have to err towards the weaker side of things, because either we have weaker poisons that aren't as general use (which feels like what a lot of people wanted), or we spoil the entire product with something that becomes new optimization fodder ("Yeah, got SoM, just toss a poison onto all attacks, takes like 2 talents and the whole sphere is busted").

As I said, we went conservative with poisons, and it doesn't seem like everyone enjoys them in their current state, but as the author, I stand by the decisions made here. If we have them weaker here, it gives us somewhere to go with other books to help push them up to the level that others want them to be, more likely with poison themed archetypes so we can keep the power level of poisons contained into these archetypes rather than giving a super large power boost to everyone else who wants bonus damage/status/etc.

I'm not here to tell anyone they're wrong, but at the end of the day, I'd rather poisons be too weak and make half a sphere not as appealing than to taint the product with something that'd get people saying "Oh, you mean that book with busted poison rules?" Let me clarify that I think SoM Poisons are fine, I just don't think they're an easy dip, and that while anesthetic poison may not be great, the subsphere as a whole is something I very much like.

[exelsisxax]

Let me talk about Poisons here; they're hard to make a a primary thing for the following reason: If they're good to include, they're CRAZY easy to add into anything else. If poisons could be made/applied as free actions, there's literally no reason why not to dip into them and make them just bonus damage/status/etc. And if we'd done that, we'd have gotten more complains about SoM pushing poison as the one true playstyle/powercreep/etc. In situations like this, we have to err towards the weaker side of things, because either we have weaker poisons that aren't as general use (which feels like what a lot of people wanted), or we spoil the entire product with something that becomes new optimization fodder ("Yeah, got SoM, just toss a poison onto all attacks, takes like 2 talents and the whole sphere is busted").

As I said, we went conservative with poisons, and it doesn't seem like everyone enjoys them in their current state, but as the author, I stand by the decisions made here. If we have them weaker here, it gives us somewhere to go with other books to help push them up to the level that others want them to be, more likely with poison themed archetypes so we can keep the power level of poisons contained into these archetypes rather than giving a super large power boost to everyone else who wants bonus damage/status/etc.

I'm not here to tell anyone they're wrong, but at the end of the day, I'd rather poisons be too weak and make half a sphere not as appealing than to taint the product with something that'd get people saying "Oh, you mean that book with busted poison rules?"

You can snap+cluster toss 3 4d6 damage grenades at level 1. With anything approaching common sense and some sleight of hand you can just blow the hell out of everything. Who was complaining about poisons being too good?

[Sam C.]

You can snap+cluster toss 3 4d6 damage grenades at level 1. With anything approaching common sense and some sleight of hand you can just blow the hell out of everything.

Snap toss and cluster toss both cost martial focus, so you can't use both at the same time till at least 6th level. Also, what sort of "common sense" and "sleight of hand" does it take to get enemies (every enemy of every variety, by your estimation) to wait the 1d3 rounds for the grenades to explode?

[exelsisxax]

Snap toss and cluster toss both cost martial focus, so you can't use both at the same time till at least 6th level. Also, what sort of "common sense" and "sleight of hand" does it take to get enemies (every enemy of every variety, by your estimation) to wait the 1d3 rounds for the grenades to explode?

Missed that for cluster toss, you'd need focusing formula to do it at level 1 which most classes can't do unless you're a human.

I mean: a lit fuse doesn't make loud noises or emit tons of light so unless you're getting surprised you should be surreptitiously placing them immediately before combat to massacre everything. That's before considering just having grenades and handing them out to your party for surprise round instawins, and demolishing buildings at-will.

[Lirya]

Combat talents generally have 3 factors that balance/mitigate their power.
1) You have a limited amount of talents known, this creates an opportunity cost to any talent as there might be a better talent elsewhere.
2) The action cost of the talent in question (including costs like "can only be used with a Brutal Strike" or "can only be used with a Deadly Shot").
3) Possible Martial Focus cost (either requiring you expend it, or that you have focus).

For the most part the effect of any one talent is clearly related to the above costs.

Now having strong/effective poisons that you can apply unlimited amounts of as a free action, meaning they can stack with a full attack (using TWF in melee or Rapid Shot for ranged) would clearly be (very) problematic. I can agree to that. However having weak and action intensive poisons, that only work once per round and need to be reapplied every round would (similarly) be just a waste of space.

As I think I hinted towards in my earlier post, the only characters/builds where I think spending any talents into poison is worth it would be for a Scholar (with SAD Int like a caster), or a Conscript using a mental stat as your main stat (and preferably with Studied Target). The only attack poison that is actually good (that I would rate Green, if I ever get around to writing my conscript guide) is Mind Venom (because Confusion is actually quite nasty). Everything else is as far as I can see done cheaper, easier, or better in other spheres. (The utility venom (anesthetic etc.), as well as frightening, nerve, and painful are not terrible).

For some comparisons. With Brute Sphere, Berserker Sphere, and Heavy Swing you have the same action cost as a weapon based poison (move to set up + attack action), except you get to move half your speed as part of the move action. Now the effect is Staggered for 1 round on a successful save, or Dazed 1 round and Staggered for 1 round/4 BaB if they fail. Dazed is take no actions and thus clearly much more powerful than anything you can do with poison. While Brutal Strike may be a special attack action, almost all the other melee options stack with that (you can easily use Blooded Strike + Dual Wielding + Fatal Thrust with it) making the real limit your total sphere talents. The closest poison effect is probably Nerve Toxin which requires (Alchemy [poison], Nerve Toxin, and preferably Lasting Application) and 2 consecutive failed saving throws over 2 different rounds before the target is nauseated.

Similarly Athletics Sphere and Dizzying Tumble can force a Will save vs. nauseated as part of a move, or Trap Sphere, Skunk Smoke, and Trap Wielder allows you to essentially apply a Stinking Cloud to the battlefield once you reach 10 ranks in craft:traps. Or Improved Flash Powder for a Fortitude Save vs. Blind for that matter.

Duelist Sphere and Debilitating Injuries works with any attack action (at no action cost) and is clearly a stronger debuff (and fairly competitive damage) compared to [poison package] and Painful Venin.

If you allow Legendary Talents (you should), then Gladiator Sphere + Aura of Fear gives you a short ranged aura as a free action that only affects enemies and causes Will Save vs. Shaken (you can escalate this reliably with Intimidate investment and two other Gladiator talents). It strikes me as immediately obvious that this is a much better effect compared to [poison package] and Mind Venom.

Spheres of Might suffered from some last minute changes that I think came as a surprise for many of us, however in my opinion almost all of those changes where for the better and hopefully the problems poison still has will get errata and be removed once DDS gets around to writing a handbook for it.

My suggestion (which I tend to try to make fairly conservative) would be to make them work slightly more like Paizo poisons in that a single dosage of poison forces a saving throw 1/round until they save once or 3 rounds have passed so one application can escalate into the major effects (painful triggers before each saving throw). In addition, I would add to Ingested Application that it increases the "severity" of poisons by one step (so Drowsy starts at a save vs. Exhaustion, and Nerve starts at a save vs. Nauseated, Painful triggers twice before the first save). This is to make poisoning the king's wine/ale for the guardhouse an effective and fun thing to do. The buff poisons are fine as long as you have a reason to be in the poison package in the first place.

[Sam C.]

I mean: a lit fuse doesn't make loud noises or emit tons of light so unless you're getting surprised you should be surreptitiously placing them immediately before combat to massacre everything. That's before considering just having grenades and handing them out to your party for surprise round instawins, and demolishing buildings at-will.

A lit fuse might go undetected, but the adventurer lighting the fuse will have quite a bit more trouble in that regard. I can see too many potential points of failure for your proposed uses of the fuse grenade for it to be the cure-all for low-level adventuring woes you seem to suggest it is, from unfavorable terrain preventing stealth, to intelligent/perceptive enemies, to rolling 3s on the detonation time when you need 1s. It is certainly a powerful option to have, but not one that can necessarily be used in even a majority of circumstances.

[exelsisxax]

A lit fuse might go undetected, but the adventurer lighting the fuse will have quite a bit more trouble in that regard. I can see too many potential points of failure for your proposed uses of the fuse grenade for it to be the cure-all for low-level adventuring woes you seem to suggest it is, from unfavorable terrain preventing stealth, to intelligent/perceptive enemies, to rolling 3s on the detonation time when you need 1s. It is certainly a powerful option to have, but not one that can necessarily be used in even a majority of circumstances.

Yes, but my point is that it's a tactic within the same sphere as anesthetic dosage, which is never a powerful option to have and is never a good idea to invest in regardless of the circumstances. That's the sign of failure in design: it's an unmitigated trap option.

[kkplx]

Questions:

A Technician with the suit pilot archetype in their suit is currently sickened (or any other non-STR based debuff), but their suit is immune to the condition. Does the suit still suffer the -2 to hit?
What about the -2 to AC, saves, skill checks?


At what point during a grapple with a suit pilot (not using total cover for this case) can you affect the pilot at all?

[Sho]

Is the intention with Warleader the same as what was done with Poisons in the Alchemy Sphere?

Was the design team too afraid to make the Shouts good on their own? Even in combination with Tactics, Shouts feel, in my opinion, to be a weak option save for a couple exceptions.

Firstly, Shouts require a Standard action. This is not actually a part that contends with me. However, since Standard actions are their own precious resource:

• Shouts could use a buff to their scaling.
• Fierce Shout could apply to all attacks for its duration.
• Call Attention is rather niche and requires that a good deal of the party invest in Stealth to benefit from it. Why not a scaling bonus to their Stealth checks?
• Cry of Confrontation requires expending martial focus, a failed save, and scales poorly. Removing the martial focus expenditure and/or upping the scaling could be nice.
• Rousing Claxon requires expending martial focus for very few temporary hit points gained. Definitely could remove the expending martial focus, because spamming this would not stack temporary hit points anyways, and the scaling could be increased.

[freduncio]

The Poison feature in the Alchemy sphere is a little poorly explained.
It refers to vanilla poison rules, but they offer no info abou this poison. No Frequency, or number os saves for Cure. Only "(...) make a successful Fortitude save against it (...) or become fatigued for 1 minute."
For the base sphere that's ok, I guess. Apply the poison to the target. He makes a Fort save. If he passes, he's... no longer poisoned?. If don't, he's fatigued for 1 minute.

But if you take some talents, like Drowsy Venom... it becames very unclear.
Drowsy states that if the target "fail two consecutive saving throws against your poison are exhausted instead of fatigued". But how long is the frequency of the poison?

Edit: I suppose that the base poison would function like a Oil of Taggit:

Alchemy Poison
Type poison (injury, contact, inhaled or ingested); Save Fortitude DC variable (see text)
Effect fatigued for 1 minute; Cure 1 save

[kkplx]

Do I understand correctly that both the Duelist and the Fencing sphere allow a creature to perform any attack action, benefit from both fatal thrust and blooded strike, including a rider effect on both? On top of, say, an impale attempt with an impale rider effect?

[digiman619]

Not to sound impatient, but how long do you think getting all the books shipped to those who ordered them will take? Because you said that shipping was starting a month ago and I've yet to get word on the shipment, Admittedly, I was on the late side in ordering, but I'd have expected something by mow.

[EldritchWeaver]

Do I understand correctly that both the Duelist and the Fencing sphere allow a creature to perform any attack action, benefit from both fatal thrust and blooded strike, including a rider effect on both? On top of, say, an impale attempt with an impale rider effect?

You can stack everything which requires an attack action. But only one can be a special attack action.


Not to sound impatient, but how long do you think getting all the books shipped to those who ordered them will take? Because you said that shipping was starting a month ago and I've yet to get word on the shipment, Admittedly, I was on the late side in ordering, but I'd have expected something by mow.

I got the request to pay for international shipping, which I did. Two of the four books have been printed by now. If you are missing the PayPal notice, maybe check your spam folder? Otherwise I don't know, if Adam thought of the domestic shippers yet.

[digiman619]

Huh. Well, it's not there and I did get notices when Champions came out, so I guess I'll just wait a bit longer.

[Kaouse]

Can a Ring of Force Shield be used with the Shield Sphere?

[Ualaa]

I'd lean towards needing to have a Shield, to use things from the Shield sphere.
Having a shield bonus is not the same thing as having a shield.

[dude123nice]

The Shielding Ward Champion feat allows you to use a magical effect that grants you a shield bonus to AC to count as having a light shield for the purpose of the Shield sphere, but i think it is mainly designed for using with spells and I don't know if it woks with a ring.

[stack]

Can a Ring of Force Shield be used with the Shield Sphere?

The ring says it can be wielded as a heavy shield, so it works with the shield sphere. Its a lot of gold to spend for a weightless 0 ASF shield. The hardness 30 and 180 HP (per wall of force) make it an attractive option for using Sacrificial Shield. I expect most DMs would let you enchant it as a shield to keep up the bonus. Watch out for disintegrate.

[Arcueid]

Hey just kinda wondering if this was an oversight as i don't see anything about this on my initial searches.

Is troubadour not supposed to have a practitioner modifier? It has a casting modifier but they lack the blended training which grants the modifier to both combat and magic spheres, and the combat training section doesn't mention it.
By the rules this would mean its wisdom for their combat spheres, but considering they're charisma for everything else i was curious of this was on purpose.

[Kaouse]

If you select Bashing Shield, which allows you to make shield bashes with Bucklers, are you also allowed to enhance the Buckler as a weapon, like you can for Light and Heavy Shields?

[stack]

If you select Bashing Shield, which allows you to make shield bashes with Bucklers, are you also allowed to enhance the Buckler as a weapon, like you can for Light and Heavy Shields?

Yes, that should be allowed.

[SangoProduction]

I was looking at the Mirrored Soul archetype for Summoner, and came across this.


Starting at 2nd level, the mirrored soul counts as possessing martial focus as long as his soul eidolon possesses martial focus and may spend his soul eidolon’s martial focus when activating his own abilities. The soul eidolon likewise may benefit from and expend the mirrored soul’s martial focus.

This replaces bond senses.

So does that mean that they can infinitely expend their martial focus by simply spending the 'fake' martial focus granted by the eidolon having one?

[stack]

I was looking at the Mirrored Soul archetype for Summoner, and came across this.



So does that mean that they can infinitely expend their martial focus by simply spending the 'fake' martial focus granted by the eidolon having one?

If your eidolon has focus, you count as having focus (some abilities require having focus, not expending it). Also, you may expend your eidolon's focus in place of your own. If you do, the eidolon is no longer focused.

The eidolon may also expend your focus, causing you to lose it.

[Sho]

Is there a way to finesse with katana within the Spheres of Might supplement?

[digiman619]

Is there a way to finesse with katana within the Spheres of Might supplement?
Not that I'm seeing, but you can theoretically make a Nodachi one with Spear Dancer as it's part of the Spear weapon group. There's also nothing inherently wrong with letting you borrow the Diasho Expert (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/feats/daisho-expertise-combat/) feat from Path of War.

EDIT: It's worth noting that if you do use the feat, SoM doesn't have 'partial proficiencies'; if you are proficient with a weapon, you're proficient with it in all forms and techniques, so you don't have to worry about how you hold it getting in the way (as the base feat cares if you are proficient with it as an exotic weapon or as a martial one).

[RedMop]

Effortless lace