Rapid Shot or Manyshot?

[Nintendogeek01]

I am doing the Sable Company Marine archetype for Curse of the Crimson Throne, so I picked up Monstrous Mount as my first combat style feat, but that means at level 6 I can take my pick of feats and as far as I can tell it's down to Rapid Shot or Manyshot.

Now I'll get whichever one I don't pick now at a later level, but I thought I'd ask, which one is the better standalone feat? Rapid Shot, or Manyshot?

[Elricaltovilla]

Between the two, I think manyshot is the better choice. Each effectively add an extra attack, but manyshot's "extra attack" doesn't need a separate attack roll, nor does it apply a penalty to your further attack rolls. If you have precision damage from somewhere, Rapid Shot may be the better choice instead.

[theasl]

I think I'd take Rapid Shot, actually. Manyshot forces you to use both attacks on the same target, while Rapid Shot doesn't - it's basically TWF for archers.

[Malroth]

course if you're confident in your To hit modifier you could eventually grab both

[Sayt]

Are you talking about the Sky Stalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo-ranger-archetypes/sky-stalker/) from Inner Sea Combat, or the Sable Company Marine archetype (http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/classes/base-classes/ranger/sable-company-marine) from the Paizo Blog? I'm presuming you mean Sky Stalker, because of the Monstrous Mount feat.


It's worth nothing that without the Monstrous Mount Mastery Feat you won't be able to ride a flying hippogriff, because Monstrous mount is.... a little conservative for my tastes, so you'd do well to pick it up at level 5 in your bonus feat slot. That being said, on a ranged build, I'd pick up Rapid and Manyshot with my normal advancemenant feats and grab improved precise shot at 11, getting MM Mastery at 6th.

For preference I'd be a Sable COmpany Marine, rather than a Sky Stalker, but Sky Stalker is more recent and SCM may be banned as an obsolete archetype.

[Stealth Marmot]

Edit: Nevermind this is Pathfinder, where Manyshot is amazeballs. If you qualify for it, take it instead.

Rapid shot. Smaller penalty overall, and when you are using a bow you are more likely to be able to sit with a full attack. If you have Base attack bonus 6, which is what you need for manyshot, you get 3 attacks, not 2, and the first 2 attacks will be at +2 verse a manyshot, and an extra attack besides.

Manyshot has the advantage of being able to be used with a standard action instead of a move action so you can move and shoot, but to be honest unless you are using a scout with skirmish it really doesn't pay off. 2 shots at -4 are not that much better in the long run than 1 shot at full bonus, depending on the AC of your opponent. The higher the AC, the worse Manyshot is. Ignoring precision based damage (which only 1 shot of a manyshot could do so that actually works against it since the rest of the shots are even less valuable) if you need a 13 or higher to hit an opponent, the advantage of manyshot is entirely lost in the average, as firing a single shot will have the same average damage as 2 shots at -4, and you don't waste an arrow. If you need an 11 or higher to hit, the supposed average, the manyshot will only average 20% more damage per standard action spent this way. (also costing the extra arrow if you care). Also of note, the actual difference AGAIN does not rule in Manyshot's favor since even if you get a natural 20 critical hit with your manyshot, it only applies to the first arrow.

Rapid shot on the other hand, an extra attack, only a -2 to each attack, can be taken earlier, and each arrow has its own chance to crit. It sucks that you cant use it and move, but manyshot is not that much better that just taking the standard shot, and the great part of a ranged weapon with a 100 foot range is you pretty likely don't have to move.

[Elricaltovilla]

I think I'd take Rapid Shot, actually. Manyshot forces you to use both attacks on the same target, while Rapid Shot doesn't - it's basically TWF for archers.

Archery's damage comes from machinegunning arrows at a target, if you want to hit the DPS marks that can be set by that combat style all your arrows will be going to the same target, meaning that Manyshot's accuracy is better for damage dealing purposes.

[Hish]

I may be mistaken, but isn't rapid shot a prereq for manyshot?

[theasl]

Archery's damage comes from machinegunning arrows at a target, if you want to hit the DPS marks that can be set by that combat style all your arrows will be going to the same target, meaning that Manyshot's accuracy is better for damage dealing purposes.

I'd take flexibility over pure damage any day.


I may be mistaken, but isn't rapid shot a prereq for manyshot?

Ranger lets you take bonus combat style feats without meeting the prerequisites.

[Firechanter]

Hmm, if you only have room for one, but get to ignore prereqs, I'd take Manyshot.
Recently I played an Archer Slayer with the works - Rapid Shot, Manyshot and Deadly Aim. Damage output at level 6 was, in one word, pornographic. :smallbiggrin:

If you manage to get by without Rapid Shot, you could jump straight to Improved Rapid Shot later -- best of both worlds, without having "wasted" a slot for a prereq.
Ofc the same kinda applies to Precise and Improved Precise Shot, but outside of a Switch Hitter I can't really see an Archer getting through the first 10 levels without PS.