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Hurnn
2017-04-01, 07:06 PM
I have been running an E6 campaign for a while now, and I have begun to struggle a bit. It has gotten hard to make challenging encounters that are not just overkill. Lower threat creatures used in groups are starting to feel like a waste of time more than anything else, and even adding them in with a CR appropriate "boss" still doesn't seem to do much either. While CR 9+ things still have one shot capabilities.I know I could just have multiple CR 6 or 7 things, but I don't want every meaningful encounter to basically be fighting a different adventuring group. Any thoughts or suggestions? As always thank you in advance for your advice.

Crake
2017-04-01, 07:17 PM
One of the staples of an E6 game is an incredibly overwhelming encounter, like a CR10-12 dragon or the like, which cannot simply be overcome by going in, using good tactics, and some good ol' fashioned luck. It will require strategic planning, consolidation of their resources and contacts, working smartly, luring the dragon into some sort of trap and unloading everything they've got on it. Think smaug in the hobbit, he wasn't something they could just charge at and beat in a straight up fight.

Seerow
2017-04-01, 08:20 PM
When we played high end e6 we started giving characters bonus hit dice every so many feats (think we used one per five), which helped reduce that one shot capability, giving the characters more hp and better saves.

flappeercraft
2017-04-01, 08:28 PM
When we played high end e6 we started giving characters bonus hit dice every so many feats (think we used one per five), which helped reduce that one shot capability, giving the characters more hp and better saves.

Isn't the point of E6 exactly the opposite of that?

Mendicant
2017-04-01, 09:09 PM
As someone who loves E6 and runs almost nothing else, I'm going to be brutally honest: the game will inevitably tend towards tactical sameness the longer you spend at 6+, even with piles of feats. You're basically dealing with a logistic power curve here.

There are a few things you can do:
First: if you're not doing gestalt, adding that in will let your PC's expand laterally to both cover more weaknesses and inject something new for them to do.

Second: Strip out monster abilities that are beyond an e6 party's ability, or create counters that can be quested for. My experience is that the monster abilities that are really hard to deal with organically aren't the rocket-tag kill abilities, they're movement modes. Pumping saves and touch AC are a lot easier for e6 players to do on their own than answering at-will teleportation.

Third: Check out the mob and unit homebrew posted here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=143.0). These are a way to make groups of low-level characters into single monsters. I modified this for my own purposes fairly heavily, but as a base it works pretty well. You get a new monster type to put in encounters, and what's even more fun is the led mob/units can be "piloted" almost like vehicles. That means you can plug your players into a couple of these, pit them against a few rival units or mobs, and you've got a mass battle that still more-or-less uses regular D&D tactical combat rules.

Fourth: You can wrap up your campaign. E6 in my opinion doesn't benefit from getting to "epic" and then living there for awhile. If RP and story reasons for continuing dry up, the game half won't carry it. If your players got good arcs out of their characters, let em ride off into the sunset.

Seerow
2017-04-02, 09:14 AM
Isn't the point of E6 exactly the opposite of that?

Not really. The point of E6 is setting an effective stopping point in terms of raw power growth, and keeping the game more grounded, letting the characters be awesome but cutting them off before the point of becoming literal superheroes and gods. The cutoff removes most high level features and access to spells beyond third level, which is the most important part of what makes E6. The progression we used made it so that by the time you had earned enough experience to be effectively level 10, you have a 7th hit die. By time time you have enough experience to hit level 12 you get your 8th hit die. But you still don't have the high level class features, you just have some extra HP, skill ranks, and base saves. And of course ridiculous amounts of feats. All of it ultimately means less than just leveling up to 9 (which would have provided 2 extra whole spell levels), but does allow the characters to better survive against CR9-10 opponents without just getting blown away. (Still have to be careful of certain abilities that characters just won't have access to defenses for regardless of HD, but stuff like standard full attacks and such become less of a problem).

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2017-04-02, 01:38 PM
Give opponents hit points consistent with the PCs' hit points. If the PCs are getting average per hd for every level (d6=3.5, d8=4.5, d10=5.5, d12=6.5) then the printed monster hp is appropriate. If the PCs rolled their hit points, then roll the monsters' hp. If the PCs have max hp per level, give the monsters max hp per hd.

Use tricky encounters. For example....

Simple:
An Umber Hulk and a Drider, just go with the typical Sorcerer spells known. Buff both with Mage Armor, distract the party with Silent Image (an open treasure chest overflowing with coins should be easy enough) then throw a Web on them and spam Lightning Bolt. The Umber Hulk can stand nearby and engage anyone who gets free and comes after the Drider, and use its confusing gaze on everyone stuck in the web. Switch the Umber Hulk's feats to Multiattack, Combat Reflexes, and Ability Focus: Gaze, and the Drider's feats to probably Improved Initiative, Ability Focus: Poison, and Improved Toughness. Remember he gets Faerie Fire as a spell-like ability.


Advanced:
The PCs have to go across a very sturdy, well maintained rope bridge over a vast chasm in their underground adventure. It still swings a bit and they can't go too fast. As they're making their way across two or three Gauth Beholders dart out of recesses in the ceiling and attack them.

Note that a gaze attack can be manually activated with a standard action, and the target must save vs the gaze even if they're not looking or already looked and made the save that round. Note that stun causes you to drop anything you're holding, which can be bad on a rope bridge (I'd say any light weapon falls through 75%, one-handed weapon or light shield/crossbow falls through 50%, and two-handed weapon or heavy shield/crossbow falls through 25%). If the PCs are using flaws give them Ability Focus: Stunning Gaze and Ability Focus: Eye Rays, so everything is a DC 16, otherwise replace their Iron Will and Improved Initiative feats with those.

Tactics: Gauths dart out and get a surprise round, they make no noise but if the PCs have light sources anyone with low-light vision or Darkvision gets a Spot check, to act in the surprise round. They standard-action target their gaze on anyone who didn't get stunned by looking. Preferred targets are anyone with a spell component pouch, then anyone with a bow or net or harpoon, then anyone with any other ranged weapons. Note they don't all go at once, so if the first tries to stun someone with a spell component pouch and they make the save, the next one tries on that same target.

Two eye rays can target a given 90 degree arc, so they can use two eyes against the front half of the party and two against the back half. There doesn't need to be any consistency on which particular eye ray targets what area, only that any two per gauth targets a given 90 degree arc. All three will use their Sleep ray on someone in heavy armor, their Paralysis ray on someone in light/no armor, Exhaustion on someone with ranged weapons who isn't exhausted or paralyzed, and either Dispel Magic on anyone with spell a component pouch or divine focus or Scorching Ray on the weakest looking target that's not disabled. This is all during the surprise round, gauths fly silently and if the PCs are distracted crossing the bridge then there's little chance that they're spotted.

First and subsequent rounds: Flyby Attack allows them to (eye rays) move (eye rays) stunning gaze (eye rays) move (eye rays), so the limit of two eye rays per 90 degree arc is a bit irrelevant as those two eyes per arc can change each time they move. They'll all use every eye ray at their disposal every round unless they're prevented from moving. Continue gaze-stunning anyone who's not already stunned, asleep, or paralyzed. Keep dispelling anything magic, summoned creatures are recognizable without Spellcraft ranks because they appear out of nowhere. Keep using paralysis and sleep until everyone has failed vs both, then keep using it. They'll all three concentrate their Inflict Moderate Wounds and Scorching Ray on a single unparalyzed awake target until it goes down, then switch to focusing a different unparalyzed awake target.

If one is reduced below half health it will retreat back to its alcove in the ceiling, if a second is reduced to below half health the rest will also retreat. They have about a dozen Cure Light Wounds potions on a ledge in their alcove from adventurers they've killed, they'll use two or three on each gauth that's below half health and then they'll all three come out shooting again two rounds after retreating. Repeat retreat tactics if it comes to it, if they run out of cure potions they'll just not reengage that group.


Expert:
There's one or more Harpy Vampires preying on a coastal community. They use their song to lure a villager to a cliff overlooking the sea, then pick them up and carry them out over the water before they stop singing and start draining blood. Most of their victims are drained to within an inch of death, and dropped into the water where they'll have no hope of swimming to shore in their weakened state. The bitten bodies wash up on the beach and get caught in fishing nets, and the locals talk about the song of death that haunts the night.

The Harpy Vampires make their lair in a cave on the cliffside overlooking the sea. They always enter in gaseous form, to avoid disturbing the Tucker's Kobolds that make their home in the first few dozen chambers of the cavern (of no return). Note that Kobolds have slight build which means they can squeeze down tunnels that the PCs will never be able to fit through. Throw in some Adept 1's with the Draconic Rite of Passage (RotD) for Magic Missile or Wall of Smoke, along with Earth Devotion (CC).

Include a hall with an inclined floor that the kobolds can bypass with their tiny tunnels. At the bottom of the incline there's a deadfall with two paths going left and right, extremely narrow so they'll have to press against the wall to traverse them. The incline should be slick with pitch, which the kobolds will set alight once everyone's on it, and the deadfall should have sharpened/diseased stakes and rat swarms at the bottom. Keep in mind the rules on catching on fire, and equipment being damaged/destroyed due to that.

Include another room with a deadfall filled with danger, and a narrow walkway going through the middle. The walls on either side and ceiling should have arrow slits and murder holes, they can drop alchemist's fire and explosives and shoot at the PCs. Once the PCs are halfway across a kobold releases the catwalk so it spins, dumping them into the pit, with the only way out being to climb back up despite the attacks.

Kobolds are mean, especially when defending their home. Their greatest guardians are never-dying Dragonwrought Kobold Dracoliches (Draconomicon), who have levels in Warblade and/or Swordsage with a focus on Tiger Claw, and use their claw/claw/bite routine with the paralyzing touch and paralyzing gaze attacks. Every time an invader gets paralyzed, a Kobold Warrior 1 with a heavy pick will pop out of a hole and scurry over to CDG them on its next turn, so the PCs will need to urgently focus attacks on them to avoid the death of their teammates. A given fight can include a single Kobold Dracolich (CR 7 with six levels in PC classes) and tons of extra Warrior 1-3s and Adept 1-4s.

Note that there could/should be hundreds or even thousands of kobolds in this clan, so there's no lack of combatants and they'll gladly give their insignificant lives in defense of their ancient community. Their homes should be in the deepest chambers, where they grow fungi and have a series of nets set up at an inlet from the sea that traps hundreds of fish every time the tide washes in. Chances are the PCs will never even see that, since the only way to reach it is through their rodent-sized tunnels and it's guarded by their strongest Dracolich warriors. Their chief should be a spellcaster (Spirit Shaman or Sorcerer) who's able to foresee events to come and takes steps to protect his people, bringing them to this promised home and helping any who were born Dragonwrought to become powerful dracolich warriors.

The PCs should only have to go through a few levels of the Tucker's Kobolds before they reach the vampire lair, but the creatures are tricky and will likely use gaseous form to flee through more of the narrow tunnels. The PCs will probably have to chase them around the caverns, suffering kobold resistance the whole time....


Master:
The party has been tasked with eliminating a necromancer who's fortified himself in an old ruin. He's been around for a very long time, moving frequently, and the churches have managed to finally track him down. The necromancer himself is a Hellbred (FC2) Necropolitan (LM) Dread Necromancer (HoH) 6. Hellbred are individuals condemned to the lower planes who found redemption just prior to their death, and were given a second chance at life. This one managed to trick the higher planes into thinking he found redemption, only to return to his wicked ways and worst of all became a Necropolitan so he could potentially live forever and avoid the punishment his soul is due. There needs to be a Dread Necromancer capstone feat for E6, pretty much every other class's capstone feat gives them an 8th level ability so make it give Undead Mastery.

He was made a Necropolitan by another Dread Necromancer with the same feats and effects that he gives to undead he creates: Undead Mastery (+2 hp/hd), Fell Energy Desecrate with an evil altar (+6 hp/hd), Corpsecrafter (+2hp/hd, +4 Str and Dex), Nimble Bones (+4 initiative, +10 ft. land speed), Hardened Flesh (+2 natural armor), Bolster Resistance (+4 turn resistance), Destruction Retribution (explodes when killed, dealing negative energy damage), Deadly Chill (+1d6 cold damage on natural attacks). That means he gets 1d12+10 hp/level in case you lost count, as do any undead he created.

Optional, Deadly: He's used an Incantation to emulate a Planar Binding spell and called a Whisper Demon (MMIV) which has Mindsight instead of Alertness. It will hide within a solid obstacle near the entrance to the lair and simply follows any living creatures that enter, remaining within a solid obstacle and using its maddening whispers abili to hinder and defeat them as they try to progress through. Killing the necromancer will free it to return to its home plane, where it must resume its prior obligations. It has probably already accumulated some Allips (it can have up to nine), which will follow suit in using their babble ability from within solid obstacles (sound can permeate the gaps between the stones, but it does not permit a straight shot to hit them with attacks or provide line of effect for spells) as they follow their intended victims through the lair.

Optional, Extremely Hindering: The entire lair is covered in an Unhallow spell (created by an Incantation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm)) that imposes a Silence effect on anyone who doesn't worship his patron god of the undead. Such creatures automatically produce no sound, but can still hear sound produced by unattended objects, environments, and evil creatures, and are still subject to sonic effects such as the Allips' babble. This prevents them from casting any spells with verbal components, unless they use Silent Spell, and they cannot communicate with each other verbally (enforce this regarding players' discussing what to do).

Include a pit trap with a (advanced) Gelatinous Cube at the bottom. Anyone who falls into the pit trap will be automatically engulfed by the cube, and the walls of the pit will be slick from it constantly reaching out with a pseudopod in search of food. Perhaps some of the Allips begin harassing from the walls and position themselves on the opposite side of the pit, enticing the party to charge toward them and fall into the trap. This is when the Greater Shadow springs on them, it has Lifesense (LM) instead of Alertness and was created in the Fell Energy Desecrate near an evil alter (+54 hp). It will spring attack from the walls as the party is fighting the (trivial) Allips and trying to rescue their comrades from the Gelatinous Cube. It can peek out between the stones of the wall and will not spring out near anyone who has an action readied to attack. Once the party has overcome all the other immediate obstacles it will cease its attacks and seek out the necromancer, who uses his negative energy touch to heal it up. It then tracks the party down and resumes its spring attacks for a few rounds, then hides until they start moving forward again, then spring attacks a few more times, etc. Once they get close to the necromancer's chamber it goes to warn him and get healed up again if needed before the final battle.

The Dread Necromancer has Arcane Disciple for the Death and Evil domains, which give him Desecrate and Animate Dead (3rd). Desecrate allows him to create 24 HD worth of undead every time he casts Animate Dead. His Advanced Learning spell is Kelgore's Grave Mist, he has Metamagic School Focus: Necromancy, Fell Frighten Spell, Versatile Spellcaster, Invisible Spell, Lifesense, Obtain Familiar*, and all of the above Corpsecrafter feats. *His familiar is a Ghostly Visage (LM), which is available to a Dread Necromancer as a familiar per their 7th level ability, and it's fitting for such an old villain to have been able to find one. It should always be possessing him and it will manifest over his face in combat to use its paralyzing gaze, and it can use its action to focus its gaze on someone to force them to save again. He has Gloves of the Starry Sky, Goggles of the Golden Sun with a +2 Enhancement bonus to Cha added (MIC p234),

There are various traps and even more encounters with shadows throughout the ruins, which they'll need to get passed before reaching the boss, so it should take them a bit of time. They'll find a stair up to what's left of a tower which gets them outside of the Unhallow/Silence effect so they can cast healing and buffing spells if needed.

There should be a long, fairly wide corridor into the main chamber, the ceiling is missing and down both walls of the corridor the floor is littered with tall heaps of fallen leaves from the trees overhead. The necromancer is on a raised platform at the back of the main chamber behind a very large altar, out of view when the party enters. He has a mirror positioned so he can see them come in, and he throws a lever to drop a portcullis behind them. This signals his Crocodile Zombies to come out from under the leaves surrounding them, and his Dire Bat Zombies to swoop in overhead and land among them to start the battle. There's at least one Giant Crocodile Zombie in the middle of the main chamber that comes out to block them from approaching. The necromancer starts out by casting Invisible Fell Frighten Kelgore's Grave Mist on them, which causes anyone damaged to become Shaken for ten rounds (duration starts over every time they're damaged by it). He'll then cast either another of those if there are many opponents, or a Fell Frighten Magic Missile that hits three targets, anyone who's already shaken and would become shaken again is Frightened until every fear effect that contributed to it ends. He'll follow up with another Fell Frighten Magic Missile, trying to make as many of them as possible Frightened or Panicked. He'll then spam Fireballs, taking care to not hit the giant crocodile, and the other zombies' destruction retribution will hopefully finish them off.

There's a secret trap door behind the altar with a ladder going down quite a long way, but he'll jump the distance into the deep water that's flooded the underground passage. It's a bit of a long swim down and to the tunnel's outlet, much longer than any living creature would be able to hold their breath.