First time playing a Revenant Necromancer

[Arzul]

Trying to figure out how to play this with using favored soul/sorcerer 2nd level and 3rd level bard/cleric into a necromancer prestige class using the Revenant template bringing back an old character from an old campaign as this character so looking for help with magic items non armor and weapon besides necromancy spells and arcane familiar.

Btw this is a Gestalt Campaign if anyone is confused i messed up with my old character by accidentally killing 2 of my groups characters and killing one too many goblins then running for the hills. So my DM gave me 2 options go with my idea or half orc barbarian/monk but i choose my classes going into necromancer and this is my first time playing an undead.

sorry about the miss information i couldn't remember the name of the actual template i thought it was remnant but it is revenant so clearing that up now.

[Coidzor]

What kind of necromancer PrC is this?

What are your sources available?

[Venger]

Trying to figure out how to play this with using favored soul/sorcerer 2nd level and 3rd level bard/cleric into a necromancer prestige class using the Remnant template bringing back an old character from an old campaign as this character so looking for help with magic items non armor and weapon besides necromancy spells and arcane familiar.

Btw this is a Gestalt Campaign if anyone is confused i messed up with my old character by accidentally killing 2 of my groups characters and killing one too many goblins then running for the hills. So my DM gave me 2 options go with my idea or half orc barbarian/monk but i choose my classes going into necromancer and this is my first time playing an undead

There is no such template in 3.5.

Are you playing pathfinder? are you playing as a revenant? are you perhaps using this? (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Revenant_(3.5e_Template))


What kind of necromancer PrC is this?

What are your sources available?
this would be helpful information.

[Arzul]

There is no such template in 3.5.

Are you playing pathfinder? are you playing as a revenant? are you perhaps using this? (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Revenant_(3.5e_Template))


this would be helpful information.

Yeah that's the template the revenant is new to me basically using my old cleric/bard that died at the hands of a goblin protecting a princess and no we are in a homebrew campaign in 3.5 but i am guessing my DM is using multiple sources for items and other things

[Arzul]

What kind of necromancer PrC is this?

What are your sources available?

Since its a Gestalt Campaign i am pretty sure like taking two classes and taking the best of both i have to for my PrC as well so i was looking at combining True Necromancer and Pale Master together

[ATHATH]

First off, here are some handbooks:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5584

You are not going to play a True Necromancer!
A lot of people love the True Necromancer, even though it’s a completely crippled class. Even a Mystic Theurge is better, and that’s saying quite a bit because that class is a dog with fleas. You’re 5 real caster levels behind the curve. If you just took Leadership, and then your cohort took Leadership, both of the cohorts would have better casting than you (being 2 levels behind and 4 levels behind respectively). You can provide the party better and more powerful Necromancy as a single classed Fighter that happens to have Leadership than you would if you were a “True” Necromancer.

Top Ten Reasons True Necromancers Are Bad

1. At 14th level, you are five caster levels behind in both classes, so if the party Fighter took Leadership, and his cohort got Leadership, he’d actually be bringing more Necromancy to the table than you. As a fighter.
2. You have to take the Death Domain as a Necromancer Cleric, which is a waste of a Domain Slot when you are trying to be good at Necromancy.
3. In the early levels, you postpone your access to Animate Dead by 4 levels.
4. At 8th level a True Necromancer can create, but not control Ghouls. A Cleric at that level can control but not create Ghouls. Guess which is better? At 11th level, the True Necromancer gets the ability to control Ghouls, and the Cleric gets the ability to create them, so there’s no point at which this is advantageous.
5. The only unique ability of the True Necromancer class is unimpressive. Desecrate is a great spell, but it’s also a second level spell.
6. True Necromancers eventually get a bonus to Rebuking – at 17th level they have a +1 bonus to their Rebuking level. But at 7th level they have a 3 level penalty to their Rebuking level. So at low levels when rebuking is good they can’t use it, and at high levels when Rebuking doesn’t matter they don’t care.
7. True Necromancers are always going to have underwhelming Save DCs. Between MAD and the fact that they are often forced to use spells that are 3 spell levels lower than what the single-classed casters can use, they’re going to be out enough Save DC that it shows. A lot.
8. As a True Necromancer you have all the disadvantages of both a Cleric (the gods can take away all your spellcasting at any time), and a Wizard (you have Arcane Spell Failure, preventing you from wearing good armor). Also, your BAB and HPs stink when compared to a Cleric.
9. Control pools from Animate Dead actually don’t accumulate between your two classes. It’ right in the spell, if you cast the spell it considers all undead you control from all castings of Animate Dead, not just your Arcane or just your Divine castings of the spell. Some people say differently, and some even quote CustServ, but when was the last time you won an argument with your DM using the line "some guy on a board said that CustServ told him....."?
10. There is almost no synergy between Cleric and Wizard Necromancy. Any synergy you desperately want to find could be replicated by just taking the Apprentice feat at first level and having some Use Magic Device. Get yourself a couple of Wizard Scrolls or something. It’s a better buy than setting 5 caster levels on fire. Smart cookies can even get the right spell effects off monsters for free, no less.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?214212-Reanimated-Dread-Necromancer-Handbook

I'd recommend being a Dread Necromancer//Bard instead of just taking a bunch of random spellcasting classes. Take the Requiem feat, invest in some Inspire Courage optimization (make sure to take Dragonfire Inspiration!), and buff your undead into competence. Before battle, pop an Inspire Courage for a round, then a Dragonfire Inspiration (for another round), then head in to fight. Their effects will last for a few round after you stop playing, so you can cast spells instead of concentrating on keeping them up.

Some good advice for Gestalt is that you want to have an "active" class (which tends to use actions to activate/power their abilities; usually a spellcaster) and a "passive" class (which has some good effects that are "always on" or don't use actions to activate). Having too many "active" classes will mean that you won't have enough actions to use all of your (good) abilities in combat, and having no "active" classes will mean that you'll have nothing (good) to spend your actions on in combat. Usually, primary spellcasters are "active" classes.

[Arzul]

First off, here are some handbooks:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5584

You are not going to play a True Necromancer!
A lot of people love the True Necromancer, even though it’s a completely crippled class. Even a Mystic Theurge is better, and that’s saying quite a bit because that class is a dog with fleas. You’re 5 real caster levels behind the curve. If you just took Leadership, and then your cohort took Leadership, both of the cohorts would have better casting than you (being 2 levels behind and 4 levels behind respectively). You can provide the party better and more powerful Necromancy as a single classed Fighter that happens to have Leadership than you would if you were a “True” Necromancer.

Top Ten Reasons True Necromancers Are Bad

1. At 14th level, you are five caster levels behind in both classes, so if the party Fighter took Leadership, and his cohort got Leadership, he’d actually be bringing more Necromancy to the table than you. As a fighter.
2. You have to take the Death Domain as a Necromancer Cleric, which is a waste of a Domain Slot when you are trying to be good at Necromancy.
3. In the early levels, you postpone your access to Animate Dead by 4 levels.
4. At 8th level a True Necromancer can create, but not control Ghouls. A Cleric at that level can control but not create Ghouls. Guess which is better? At 11th level, the True Necromancer gets the ability to control Ghouls, and the Cleric gets the ability to create them, so there’s no point at which this is advantageous.
5. The only unique ability of the True Necromancer class is unimpressive. Desecrate is a great spell, but it’s also a second level spell.
6. True Necromancers eventually get a bonus to Rebuking – at 17th level they have a +1 bonus to their Rebuking level. But at 7th level they have a 3 level penalty to their Rebuking level. So at low levels when rebuking is good they can’t use it, and at high levels when Rebuking doesn’t matter they don’t care.
7. True Necromancers are always going to have underwhelming Save DCs. Between MAD and the fact that they are often forced to use spells that are 3 spell levels lower than what the single-classed casters can use, they’re going to be out enough Save DC that it shows. A lot.
8. As a True Necromancer you have all the disadvantages of both a Cleric (the gods can take away all your spellcasting at any time), and a Wizard (you have Arcane Spell Failure, preventing you from wearing good armor). Also, your BAB and HPs stink when compared to a Cleric.
9. Control pools from Animate Dead actually don’t accumulate between your two classes. It’ right in the spell, if you cast the spell it considers all undead you control from all castings of Animate Dead, not just your Arcane or just your Divine castings of the spell. Some people say differently, and some even quote CustServ, but when was the last time you won an argument with your DM using the line "some guy on a board said that CustServ told him....."?
10. There is almost no synergy between Cleric and Wizard Necromancy. Any synergy you desperately want to find could be replicated by just taking the Apprentice feat at first level and having some Use Magic Device. Get yourself a couple of Wizard Scrolls or something. It’s a better buy than setting 5 caster levels on fire. Smart cookies can even get the right spell effects off monsters for free, no less.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?214212-Reanimated-Dread-Necromancer-Handbook

I'd recommend being a Dread Necromancer//Bard instead of just taking a bunch of random spellcasting classes. Take the Requiem feat, invest in some Inspire Courage optimization (make sure to take Dragonfire Inspiration!), and buff your undead into competence. Before battle, pop an Inspire Courage for a round, then a Dragonfire Inspiration (for another round), then head in to fight. Their effects will last for a few round after you stop playing, so you can cast spells instead of concentrating on keeping them up.

Some good advice for Gestalt is that you want to have an "active" class (which tends to use actions to activate/power their abilities; usually a spellcaster) and a "passive" class (which has some good effects that are "always on" or don't use actions to activate). Having too many "active" classes will mean that you won't have enough actions to use all of your (good) abilities in combat, and having no "active" classes will mean that you'll have nothing (good) to spend your actions on in combat. Usually, primary spellcasters are "active" classes.

I thought dread necromancer was a PrC ? i have never really read through the heroes of horror book except for the inspire fear feat.somethings this class gives you would be mute since my character is already undead

[Arzul]

Well so far i found an item to make it so my revenant character is in a continual unhollow spell effect the darkskull wondrous item still trying to figure out other items and weapons besides which medium armor to use since my DM is allowing me to have that armor made of mithral

[ATHATH]

Well so far i found an item to make it so my revenant character is in a continual unhollow spell effect the darkskull wondrous item still trying to figure out other items and weapons besides which medium armor to use since my DM is allowing me to have that armor made of mithral
I recommend checking out the Corpsecrafter line of feats, along with the other good feats that are mentioned in the necromancer and Dread Necromancer handbooks.

Oh, and speaking of handbooks, here's another one that lists all of the undead that you (as a non-spawn producing undead PC) can create: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=181.0


I thought dread necromancer was a PrC ? i have never really read through the heroes of horror book except for the inspire fear feat.somethings this class gives you would be mute since my character is already undead
Nope, it's a base class. Check it out, it's quite interesting (especially for its spellcasting mechanic, which is unique to it, the Warmage, and the Beguiler). And you should PrC out for one (caster) level so that your Advanced Learning class feature gets you spells that are one level higher, which means that your inability to obtain the lich capstone is a moot point. I recommend a dip into Paragnostic Apostle so that you can get an effective turning level that's one higher than the one that you'd have if you just went Dread Necromancer 20. I suppose that Death Master 2 might be an option, but that delays your effective turning level progression by two (levels).

[Arzul]

I recommend checking out the Corpsecrafter line of feats, along with the other good feats that are mentioned in the necromancer and Dread Necromancer handbooks.

Oh, and speaking of handbooks, here's another one that lists all of the undead that you (as a non-spawn producing undead PC) can create: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=181.0


Nope, it's a base class. Check it out, it's quite interesting (especially for its spellcasting mechanic, which is unique to it, the Warmage, and the Beguiler). And you should PrC out for one (caster) level so that your Advanced Learning class feature gets you spells that are one level higher, which means that your inability to obtain the lich capstone is a moot point. I recommend a dip into Paragnostic Apostle so that you can get an effective turning level that's one higher than the one that you'd have if you just went Dread Necromancer 20. I suppose that Death Master 2 might be an option, but that delays your effective turning level progression by two (levels).

well i already switched to dread necromancer/bard three levels so far i am behind my allies since my last PC had an alignment shift from CN to CE but maybe since i am already undead the lich might be done a different way though idk this characters alignment is LN cause of being a revenant

[Arzul]

well since i have changed classes to dread necromancer/bard i need help with the rest of the magic Items and a weapon for this character

[Coidzor]

Double check (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=7851952&postcount=40) these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=7847733&postcount=20) items (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=7848943&postcount=23) for compatibility with Rebuke Undead.

As for a weapon, I recommend either a Crystal Echoblade for making your bardic music last long after you stop singing or a standard bow to use from range while your undead minions take care of tanking.

[Arzul]

Double check (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=7851952&postcount=40) these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=7847733&postcount=20) items (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=7848943&postcount=23) for compatibility with Rebuke Undead.

As for a weapon, I recommend either a Crystal Echoblade for making your bardic music last long after you stop singing or a standard bow to use from range while your undead minions take care of tanking.

most all expect for the moonfriend ring and the scepter are positive energy which would hurt my character. well the ring is a mute item it only works for turn undead

[ATHATH]

most all expect for the moonfriend ring and the scepter are positive energy which would hurt my character. well the ring is a mute item it only works for turn undead
Do keep in mind that Rebuke Undead counts as Turn Undead for most things (but not vice versa). Check the necromancer handbook that I linked to you for details.

[Arzul]

Do keep in mind that Rebuke Undead counts as Turn Undead for most things (but not vice versa). Check the necromancer handbook that I linked to you for details.

I have looked at them i am just trying to figure out items for cha and ac besides other useful items

[Arzul]

I have looked at them i am just trying to figure out items for cha and ac besides other useful items

Ok got my character down pat so far though i haven't figured out about a wand of summon monster to be able to summon in multiple tombstone golem . i am not sure of the level for summon monster for it or if it should be summon golem from phb 2 ?

[Arzul]

Double check (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=7851952&postcount=40) these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=7847733&postcount=20) items (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=7848943&postcount=23) for compatibility with Rebuke Undead.

As for a weapon, I recommend either a Crystal Echoblade for making your bardic music last long after you stop singing or a standard bow to use from range while your undead minions take care of tanking.

I took that echoblade thanks for that idea and i am still looking at a bow i took a blowgun for poisoned darts so far

[Coidzor]

I took that echoblade thanks for that idea and i am still looking at a bow i took a blowgun for poisoned darts so far

Remember that you are a spellcaster, so keep in mind spells like Kelgore's Gravemist which are neutral towards many undead or an active boon for Skeletons.

Also, make sure you're not overstretching yourself on weapon proficiencies.


Ok got my character down pat so far though i haven't figured out about a wand of summon monster to be able to summon in multiple tombstone golem . i am not sure of the level for summon monster for it or if it should be summon golem from phb 2 ?

As far as I know, there's no spell that will summon a Tombstone Golem. Summon Golem is too high of a level, so you'd need some serious shenanigans in order to make a wand that can cast that spell.

I'm not a fan of wands of Summon Monster at any level, though.