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Rfkannen
2017-04-02, 09:58 AM
What support characters function the best for a party of 6-9? I imagine that some supports don't work as well with that many players.

Odessa333
2017-04-02, 10:10 AM
That's very vague, but generally bards and clerics are safe bets. Clerics can heal better than any other class (assuming that is what you men by support) while still having a lot of other options. Bards can do so much that it is hard to find a niche the bard can't fulfill. He can pick locks, cast healing spells, and hinder foes.

Really, you can make arguments for most classes (Ranger can provide long range support while tracking and have nature magic, Wizards can do nearly anything in the game with the right spells picked, etc) so it would help to explain what you mean by 'support.'

One thing you can do is look at you what classes your party has, and try to find a role no one is covering. If you have a lot of melee and casters, playing an archer rogue could be the best thing.

Specter
2017-04-02, 10:11 AM
If by support you mean buffing others, then Lore Bard. They already got some of their own, and can take other classes' buffs like Crusader's Mantle and Circle of Power easily. All that along with Bardic Inspiration.

If by support you mean covering as many holes in the party as possible, probably Rogue or Valor Bard.

Marvnmartian
2017-04-02, 10:16 AM
well it depends on what level you start out with but the best ive ran with is a cleric 1 (knowledge) Lore Bard X build. get to be the skill monkey of the group while also being able to sweep up magical secrets to fill any wholes in your partys needs.

knowledge cleric allows you at first level to bless which is just a bardic inspiration dice for 3 people and at level 1 1d4 makes a large difference and gets cure wounds which even if you have a dedicated healer i always prepare for bonus action spells if your game does that.

Need a healer for the group? snatch up aura of vitality at 6

Need a blocker support pick up counter spell at 6 (i would recommend this in any build imo)

low on melee in the group and need more meat shields to keep them off your ranged snatch up Conjure animals and summon 8 wolves for pact tactics or 8 giant owls for an hour of flight travel (if your gm is nice but since you have such a large group dunno if he would be)

Don't do a lot of combat? snatch up Plant Growth and start using the 8 hour version on farm lands in your main city to gain favor with everyone.

lore bard is the question to most answers in dnd imo but coupling it with a knowledge cleric to be able to wield a shield in one hand and a wand in the other. (or call it a conductors baton if you wanna snatch my characters focus)

JellyPooga
2017-04-02, 10:21 AM
If it's number of targets for buffs you're concerned with, then Druid or Wizard playing the control game with Web, Entangle and their ilk is good support for a larger party because you're targeting your foes with AoE rather than individual allies.

Otherwise, the advice the above posters have given is solid.

hymer
2017-04-02, 10:25 AM
If you can get enough people inside your aura, and there's no paladin in the party already, then a paladin is worth consideration.

Steampunkette
2017-04-02, 12:52 PM
With that many players you're going to be fighting big swarms of stuff rather than single hard targets (Usually) if only because the single hard target is going to get swarmed and slaughtered.

Clerics are okay in that kind of situation. They've got some AoE that is pretty nice and a few decent control spells (Spirit Guardians, anyone?)
Bards are fantastic in that kind of situation. With lots of Enchantment and Illusions they can prey on low Wisdom Saves to knock out or distract entire clusters of enemies.
Wizards are amazing in this situation. They've got the Bard's Illusions and Enchantments... And Fireballs. So many Fireballs.

Druids are the King, though. With control over the environment they can shut down massive portions of the understandably large battlefield.

Three Words: Storm. Of. Vengeance.

Rfkannen
2017-04-02, 04:23 PM
That's very vague, but generally bards and clerics are safe bets. Clerics can heal better than any other class (assuming that is what you men by support) while still having a lot of other options. Bards can do so much that it is hard to find a niche the bard can't fulfill. He can pick locks, cast healing spells, and hinder foes.

Really, you can make arguments for most classes (Ranger can provide long range support while tracking and have nature magic, Wizards can do nearly anything in the game with the right spells picked, etc) so it would help to explain what you mean by 'support.'

One thing you can do is look at you what classes your party has, and try to find a role no one is covering. If you have a lot of melee and casters, playing an archer rogue could be the best thing.

By support I mean the person who makes sure that everybody else can do their thing at 150%, buffing their allies, debuffing enemies, changing the terrain, giving advantage, providing other people opportunities to be cool (while hopefully being cool themselves), and keeping people alive through any means possible. The guy who stands in the back "supporting" everybody else. In the traditional mage, thief, fighter, cleric roles; the cleric.

Dracul3S
2017-04-03, 07:07 AM
For a large party, I think battlefield control is the best. Targeting individual allies (with buff spells, etc.) can only go so far and the concentration mechanic limits that approach even further. Same goes for debuffing enemies as large partys tend to fight bigger groups of opponents. Mystic can help with the concentration issue, otherwise wizard is probably your best bet.

Citan
2017-04-03, 11:48 AM
What support characters function the best for a party of 6-9? I imagine that some supports don't work as well with that many players.
Really, any will do just fine.

Bards may be the "safest" choice when you don't know in advance what you want to do because they have a good array of spells + Magic Secrets. So when you don't know, Bard, taking usual healing/revive spells, classic buffs (Enhance Ability, Greater Invis), classic versatile (Heat Metal, Animate Objects) then use Magic Secrets on Pass Without Trace, Counterspell, Haste, Crusaders Mantle, Beacon of Hope, Circle of Power, etc).

Clerics have an edge in healing and buffing because they get most of the good scaling spells (Bless, Aid, Heroism, etc).

Druid gets a more thematic spell list but has some of the greatest scaling/non-concentration utility, although more situational/tactical and geared towards mobility (Faerie Fire, Pass Without Trace, Jump/Longstrider, Water Breathing). Conjure X are versatile so could be considered support spells as well.

Sorcerer with Twin or Careful Metamagics, although being much more focused on specific kind of supports (no healing/revive), can be an invaluable asset too.

Wizard has no Metamagic nor Bardic Inspiration, but has the largest number of rituals (with arguably the best) and such a large array of spells that, barring healing, you are sure he has something up his sleeve that fits the situation.

Warlock is a special case: spellcasting wise he's poor compared to the others in terms of traditional casting: but built with the proper choice of Invocations (Detect Magic and such), Patron (Fey or GOO) and Pact (Tome for Rituals) he can easily hold his own.

So, really, the choice should depend on player taste and party composition, so you know what kind of "support" you want to favor: defensive support? Cleric. Mobility and conjuration support? Druid. Big mix (heal/skill/stealth/travel) support? Bard. Single/dual target buff? Sorcerer.
You don't want to choose and don't care about healing? Wizard is your best pick by far: rituals + largest array of spells.
You want a cherry-pick of all the greatest spells? Bard (with Ritual Caster so you don't actually lose to Wizard on that point ^^). :)

Crusher
2017-04-03, 12:03 PM
Yeah, there's a lot of possible supports depending on how people build their characters and spell selection. And, of course, how you define "support".

But overall, I'd rank them:

Bard (Lore) = Druid (Land) > Cleric >> Wizard = Sorcerer

Except that assumes a generic Cleric/Wizard/Sorcerer. A Wizard or Sorcerer specifically built for crowd-control would probably be on par with a Bard or Druid. And, of course, a Life Cleric would be miles ahead of any other class at healing which you may or may not consider "support".

Citan
2017-04-03, 12:37 PM
You like charisma characters that can play with destiny?
Lore Bard 6: Expertise, Bardic Inspiration, Magic Secrets
GOO Tome Warlock 5: short-rest 3rd level slots, Ritual Cast up to 3rd level spells, Repelling Blast
Wild Magic Sorcerer 6: twin, careful
Life Cleric 1: better healing!
Diviner Wizard 2: School reroll feature (if not interested, Druid 1 / Wizard 1).

Be an Half-Elf obviously.
STR 8 / DEX 14 / CON 12 / INT 13 / WIS 14 / CHA 16.
Spells

Bard: Healing Words, Blindness, Enhance Ability, Hold Person, Bestow Curse, Fear, Plant Growth, Pass Without Trace*, Conjure Animals*
Cleric: Bless*, Cure Wounds*, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Command.
Sorcerer: Chromatic Orb, Fog Cloud, Enlarge, Web, Fireball, Slow, Haste.
Warlock: Hex, Hellish Rebuke, Misty Step, Counterspell, Phantasmal Force, Hypnotic Pattern.
Wizard: Shield, Magic Missile, Feather Fall.

Rituals: all up to 3rd level.

ASIs: +2 CHA, Warcaster, either +2 CON or Inspiring Leader.
Start Sorcerer if you want Constitution proficiency otherwise Bard or Warlock depending on your fluff. Go chosen class straight to 5, then start dipping as you want.

Although this guy has no better spells than 3rd so he is not world-changing, he is pretty awesome from level 8 onwards.
Warlock short-rest slots may be used directly or converted to Metamagic points.
Having so high level of caster, with good CHA and help of Diviner/Wild Magic features, he can easily apply powerful debuffs on creatures.
He also heals very well and has nearly every and all spell, ritual or otherwise, that may be required for safe travel and better social interactions.

An he gets a great array of cantrips making him great every other turn...
- Need pull? Thorn Whips.
- Need push? Repelling Blast.
- Need good melee weapon attack? Shillelagh+ BB/GFB.
- Need good melee spell attack? Shocking Grasp.
- Need good ranged attack? Eldricht Blast. :)
- Need good rider? Vicious Mockery, Frostbite, Shocking Grasp, Ray of Frost are here to be chosen.
- Need utility? Mage Hand, Message, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Mold Earth, Shape Water, Prestidigitation, Mending.



You care only about non-save or suck buff/support spells and like heavy multiclass?Enjoy that supid theorycraft build! (coming later)

Biggstick
2017-04-03, 01:31 PM
By support I mean the person who makes sure that everybody else can do their thing at 150%, buffing their allies, debuffing enemies, changing the terrain, giving advantage, providing other people opportunities to be cool (while hopefully being cool themselves), and keeping people alive through any means possible. The guy who stands in the back "supporting" everybody else. In the traditional mage, thief, fighter, cleric roles; the cleric.

Light Cleric fits this role pretty well.

Doing their thing at 150%. Clerics can do this with Bless, but it's really more like 112.5%.

Buffing Allies. Clerics are overall amazing at this with a plethora of defensive and utility based spells for allies (and self): Guidance, Bless, Protection from Evil and Good, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Aid, Calm Emotions, Continual Flame, Enhance Ability, Lesser Restoration, Locate Object, Warding Bond, Zone of Truth, Protection from Energy, Remove Curse, Revivify, Tongues, Water Walk, etc.

Debuffing Enemies? Absolutely! Clerics get Bane, Command (one of the best abilities in the game to burn through Legendary Resistances imo), Guiding Bolt, Blindness/Deafness, Hold Person, Silence, Bestow Curse, etc.

Changing the terrain. Clerics don't get these types of abilities till later in the game, but Stone Shape, Control Water (level 4 spells), Hallow (level 5 spell), and Forbiddance do some pretty solid terrain work. I'd argue for Forbiddance being one of the strongest rituals in the game in that the spell by itself can clear out an entire region of the Undead (or Celestials, or Elementals, or Fey, or Fiends, or all of them at the same time!). Having access to the Forbiddance spell (and it's material component) can completely negate certain areas of the world that the DM has set-up.

Giving Advantage. Light Clerics get Faerie Fire. Plus the advantage created through Command, Guiding Bolt, Blindness/Deafness, and Hold Person.

Keeping people alive through any means possible. Healing Word, Prayer of Healing, and Mass Healing Word are all on your list of spells known and should be considered when building your daily spell list.

All this aside, you're a Light Cleric with the Fireball spell! If you don't have need to do any of this stuff, you can contribute just as much damage as the aoe-flinging spell casters in the group.