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View Full Version : Need help with villain design [my players keep out]



Leicontis
2007-07-27, 11:28 PM
So I'm building a villain for a Forgotten Realms game, and I really like his background, but certain aspects of his current personality are a little hard for me to pin down.

Human Male Fighter/Blackguard, Currently CE, originally CG

Background:
Was originally a devout follower of Helm (LG god of protectors), and dedicated his life to protecting the innocent. Could never understand why Helm wasn't granting him any power to aid in this (i.e. couldn't become a Paladin - the whole chaotic thing). Eventually, felt that Helm was unfairly slighting him, got really bitter, and gradually turned evil. Now, he hates Helm and is trying to punish him, directly or indirectly, for the percieved slight. Definitely CE at this point, but still refuses to harm defenseless innocents (though he has no qualms whatsoever about killing those who protect them).

What I'm trying to figure out:
-I figure there was probably one or more demons and/or evil deities prodding him towards evil, but I'm not sure which one(s) to pick, or what their exact motive would be other than the corruption of a pure soul.
-What deity/deities does he currently worship, or has he completely forsaken the gods?
-How, other than going after protectors, especially Helmites, is he exacting his revenge? What more generalized evil is drawing the attention of the PCs?

If you've got suggestions on these, or for any other aspects of the character that I haven't already laid down, please share them - I like this concept, but I'm just not sure where to take it.

suckered_D.M.
2007-07-27, 11:38 PM
sounds more N.E. than C.E. keep in mind that N.E. is the worst kind because they are patient and less self destructive. Also everyone loves demons but it is defintly a devil you want for a reoccuring villian. some one with plans and schemes and back up schemes. the black gaurd prestge just wants an evil outsider. if you have the fiendish codex its a cool ref. for players and D.M.s

Hadrian_Emrys
2007-07-27, 11:45 PM
1) I have no idea for the evil influence.

2) I'd say worship Shar. Helm hates her, and she has a thing for subversive actions which tie into...

3) You get revenge by acting like the perfect Helmite, but with the twist that you set up true Helmites to look horrible, then slay them publicly while the crowd is in your favor. Undermine his church while the masses see you only upholding Helm's tenants.

BardicDuelist
2007-07-27, 11:57 PM
If you want to go CE, Graz'zt was always my favorite for corrupting people, but with the blackguard having undead, possibly Orcus. Demons scheme, but like to improv as it goes. Remember, even though they are really chaotic, that doesn't mean that they are stupid. They love instant gratification, but are smart enough to wait if the payoff is considerably (not just marginably) better. Orcus wants many worshipers so that he may become a god soon. Graz'zt wants worshipers so that he can gain prestige and claim the title of Prince of Demons (rather than Demon Prince).

If you want a diety, go with either Shar or Bane (who is Helm's worst enemy). Cyric is about as close to that as you can get with a CE deity. A LE deity would still grant things to a CE blackguard, right? All of them hate Helm, though Cyric has a lot of a wizardy influence, so probably isn't right. Shar would be good, but if you want to make him LE and worship a god, Bane is the way to go.

If you don't mind changing his alignment (making him lawful would be ironic in an interesting and slightly tragic way), Devils are always great. My fav. is Mephitstopholes, but Dispater is really cool too. Both are currently and actively trying to increase their followers (which could make an interesting encounter with a blackguard and a cult of a archdevil).

Devil cults could also be that generalized evil you're looking for.

Hadrian_Emrys
2007-07-28, 12:01 AM
I'm in total agreement with BD on th alignment thing. You said you wanted CE so I suggested Shar (Cyric is like a LARPer who's trying TOO hard) but switching from CN to LE as you went from taking a free form method of doing his work, to a systematic undermining of his whole church... It's a thing of beauty.

palindrome
2007-07-28, 12:11 AM
Individuals who fall from the worship of some of your more common good deities like Helm, Torm, or Tyr, often find the precepts of Bane (for lawful) or Cyric (for chaotic) appealing to their new paradigms. It sounds like Cyric would fit your blackguard friend (we'll call him Fred) a little better.

On to more important aspects of your question. The chaotic alignment is stereotypically more conducive to destructive short term schemes. What you could have, alternatively, is a priest or something or other (we'll call him Bob) who for reason x feels particularly violated by the Helmite following (I'm sure said individual could come up with plenty of justification) and decides it might be neat to see a particular enclave tear itself out from the inside out.

Enter your demonic outsider. Bob gates in a succubus using one of many potential avenues. With the handy dandy geas spell strongarms the succubus into trying to seduce one of the Helmites (for information or simply for sadistic amusement). This could start when Fred is just a low level guard of a Helmite following acting as a police force for a given city. Over time, as our quasi-Byronic hero falls for the succubus in disguise she insinuates that "hey, you're a good guy, why hasn't Helm truly blessed you yet?" and so on. The disgruntled seed is thus planted.

Eventually a mid/high ranking officer (still without spells), Fred finds some way to cause internal tension and subverts others to his cause (here are your minions).

Now he could follow Cyric on the way out, or Talos would be rather fitting as well. I don't suppose it is entirely relevant at this point. Following a god of some kind would be a good reason for having blackguard spells.

Why do your PCs care? I know you want him set up so he does not harm the defenseless, but one interesting way to get back at Helm would be to have him and his groupies hire themselves out as caravan guards, then slaughter the entire caravan when deep enough in the bush. Maybe he only kills certain kinds of merchants. Or if you really wanted to nail the protectors, have him and his groupies pretend to be merchants and hire Helmites as guards, and wait until they get deep enough in the bush to draw steel and butcher the Helmites in their sleep.

To reflect Fred's reluctance to harm the innocent, you could have him take touch of benevolence as a feat somewhere along the line. In case you don't have access to Champions of Ruin (a fantastic FR supplement) it basically says spells or abilities that specifically affect evil targets have a 50% chance of failing outright (except for detect evil spells/abilities). The prereqs essentially call for your character to do something nice every now and then (hence the title)

Hope something in that mess proves helpful somewhere along the lines.

Xefas
2007-07-28, 12:15 AM
This guy comes off, to me, as a prideful sort of guy. ie "I'm so great, how dare the gods deny me?" and "I'm better than all the other thugs 'cause I don't harm the innocent"

...Which reminded me of something I read in a Green Ronin book, where they detailed a Duke of Hell (as in, not like the 9 Archdukes, but the class just under them) named Iblis, Duke of Pride. He's reasonably powerful at CR 24, meaning singularly more deadly than Bel and the Hag Countess (or Glasya, if you're using her) and equal with Fierna and Belial. Obviously, he doesn't have the manpower and resources equivalent to those archdukes, but I'm just saying he's no chump.

So...just another suggestion of who could have been prodding him. Just 'cause he's a devil (a fallen solar, to be specific) doesn't mean he can't appreciate a CE blackguard overflowing with hubris.

ZebulonCrispi
2007-07-28, 02:15 AM
Personally, I think making him manipulated by a demon kind of weakens the character. It's not necessary - let him be tempted to the dark side by his own personality.

palindrome
2007-07-28, 11:40 AM
It would, however, cover that peaceful contact with an evil outsider thing. Also, then he could have a succubus cohort.

stainboy
2007-07-28, 12:49 PM
My first thought when I read this was that it would make a lot of sense if Shar had corrupted our misguided Helmite. Hadrian mentioned this already, but it's a good idea so I'm reiterating.

If you want the corrupter to be something the party can actually defeat, you could have Shar be the mastermind and one of her serveants be responsible for the dirty work. I always did like shadow fiends...

Foeofthelance
2007-07-28, 12:58 PM
-How, other than going after protectors, especially Helmites, is he exacting his revenge? What more generalized evil is drawing the attention of the PCs?

Have him gather a large army of undead or constucts. Doesn't really matter which, just so long as they're mindless and easily controlled. He then uses them to threaten a major city. An army of Protectors, led by the church of Helm naturally, comes to defend the city. Little do they know, the army is his true target, and the threat against the city was just bait to draw them there.

de-trick
2007-07-28, 01:34 PM
Helms LN not LG

JackMage666
2007-07-28, 01:43 PM
I'm gonna agree with earlier posts to his alignment. He seems to follow some factors of law and order (ie, not harming innocents, which is a big one), meaning Chaotic doesn't fit. Neutral Evil is a more fitting alignment for him.

Also, NG->NE is a worse tranformation, since NG is thought to be the purest alignment, and NE the most vile.

Koji
2007-07-28, 01:52 PM
Make him a cancer mage (BoVD). He contracted some disease and his failing faith in Helm kept him from being healed. Rather than changing his life for the better, he became bitter and fell from grace. I think the clashing classes (ex paladin and arcane caster) makes for a pretty neat combination.

Leicontis
2007-07-28, 10:59 PM
I'm seeing so many wonderful suggestions!

As far as alignment goes, I was definitely thinking of Fred (that's going to end up sticking as his name...) as a Chaotic individual, who just couldn't understand why Helm wouldn't favor him. He honestly doesn't percieve himself as evil, but as riteously vengeful. The not killing defenseless innocents thing is partially a visceral inability to do so, and partially because to do so would contravene his original, most basic drive - to protect. Killing defenseless innocents would also prove, at least to him, that Helm had good reason not to favor him, which would deflate his whole "Helm had no good reason not to favor me!" bit.

I like the succubus idea - I had been thinking of having him seduced by a succubus (who takes the form of a human woman, so he doesn't necessarily realize what she is). The succubus then whispers in his ear, playing on his doubts and his pride. Now, whether to have her working for Shar, Talos, or Graz'zt, I'm not quite sure - I'm going to have to read more on each of them.

Thanks for all the great ideas!