Can a multiclass Wizard scribe ALL Wizard spells?

[Prophes0r]

I was reading the Wizard class again, and I noticed that there doesn't seem to be a limitation on what level spells you can scribe into your book. So I had a thought.

Can a Wizard1/Cleric19 scribe 9th level Wizard spells AND cast them?

Scribing

When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is
of a level for which you have spell slots...

Preparing and casting

The Wizard table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher.

He would have 9th level spells slots because he is a 20th level caster...

[Strill]

No. The class descriptions are not written with multiclassing in mind. Anytime a class description mentions "level", it's referring to <Class> Level, not Character Level.

Also, the Multiclass rules explicitly address this: "Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. "

[Solunaris]

Sadly, if you check the multi-classing section on spell casters you prepare as if you are a single classed caster in the class in question. So you could scribe 9th level spells, but you can only prepare spells of 1st level since you can't prepare spells you don't have slots (when counted as a 1st level wizard).

[Prince Zahn]

Oh wow, how did WotC miss that? :smalleek:


Sadly, if you check the multi-classing section on spell casters you prepare as if you are a single classed caster in the class in question. So you could scribe 9th level spells, but you can only prepare spells of 1st level since you can't prepare spells you don't have slots (when counted as a 1st level wizard).

However, the spells you can copy into your spellbook, according to the class's sidebar, say that you can add to your spellbook any spell that you have spell slots for - which means any wizard spell you have spell slots for can be a known spell. This also counts for multi-classing, as it is a spell known. And by 5e multi-classing rules, you use a combined spell slot chart, as opposed to separate lists. Therefore, a cleric19 /wizard 1 build can theoretically benefit from both spell lists, to be divided into a single spell slots allotment.

Another 2 caveats worth mentioning is that by undergoing this approach,1) wizard rules for preparing a spell means your Wizard/cleric can likely prepare MAYBE 5-7 wizard spells per long rest (in total) ? And
2)spell list is at your DM's mercy, meaning that you won't learn a spell that your Dungeon Master doesn't want you to know. I wouldn't be recommending this as an optimal build for any wizard wannabe for these reasons, if nothing else. :smallwink:

[Citan]

I was reading the Wizard class again, and I noticed that there doesn't seem to be a limitation on what level spells you can scribe into your book. So I had a thought.

Can a Wizard1/Cleric19 scribe 9th level Wizard spells AND cast them?

Scribing


Preparing and casting


He would have 9th level spells slots because he is a 20th level caster...


Oh wow, how did WotC miss that? :smalleek:



However, the spells you can copy into your spellbook, according to the class's sidebar, say that you can add to your spellbook any spell that you have spell slots for - which means any wizard spell you have spell slots for can be a known spell. This also counts for multi-classing, as it is a spell known. And by 5e multi-classing rules, you use a combined spell slot chart, as opposed to separate lists. Therefore, a cleric19 /wizard 1 build can theoretically benefit from both spell lists, to be divided into a single spell slots allotment.

Another 2 caveats worth mentioning is that by undergoing this approach,1) wizard rules for preparing a spell means your Wizard/cleric can likely prepare MAYBE 5-7 wizard spells per long rest (in total) ? And
2)spell list is at your DM's mercy, meaning that you won't learn a spell that your Dungeon Master doesn't want you to know. I wouldn't be recommending this as an optimal build for any wizard wannabe for these reasons, if nothing else. :smallwink:
Well, it's obvious a Cleric 19 / Wizard 1 could not cast any Wizard spell higher than 1st level spells.

Also, I think it would be fair to say that even writing them in spellbook wouldn't be RAI (maybe even there is something RAW that I missed), as you can fairly argue that a lvl 1 Wizard wouldn't have the required knowledge to understand, thus decipher, the higher level spells.

However, in case your DM would allow it, it would make for a funny character, like a multiclass Wizard/Rogue that would make a career of just sneaking into arcane casters's lairs, copy spells he doesn't even comprehend, just to go sell them to highest bidders after the fact. XD

[DivisibleByZero]

Copying a spell into your spellbook is the Wizard's version of "learning" the spell, so a wiz1/clr19 could only copy 1st level spells into their book.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/19/multiclass-caster-spellbook/
Allen Shock @allenshock1
cleric 2/wizard 2 finds a 2nd level spell in a book. By multiclassing rule he has 4 1st and 3 2nd level slots? (cont.) can he copy 2nd level wiz spell into his book even though Wiz 2 can't normally cast 2nd level spells? and then cast

Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford
No, and he can use those 2nd-level slots only to cast 1st-level spells.

No, a wiz2/clr2 who has 2nd level slots cannot copy a 2nd level wizard spell into his book. Straight from the horse's mouth.

The text in the sidebar assumes non-multiclass straight single classed wizard.
In the case of a multiclass wizard, you follow the multiclass rules, which state that he can only learn spells if he could cast them as a single classed wizard. And once again, copying a spell into your book is the Wizard's version of "learning" the spell.
So a wiz1/clr19 can only copy 1st level wizard spells into his book.

[LeonBH]

No, a Wiz1/Clr19 can only scribe level 1 Wizard spells even if he has 9th level spell slots as a full caster.

Allowing a Wizard to scribe spells higher than 1st level opens the possibility to let the Wizard cast higher level ritual Wizard spells that he isn't high enough of a level to cast normally.

[DivisibleByZero]

No, a Wiz1/Clr19 can only scribe level 1 Wizard spells even if he has 9th level spell slots as a full caster.

Allowing a Wizard to scribe spells higher than 1st level opens the possibility to let the Wizard cast higher level ritual Wizard spells that he isn't high enough of a level to cast normally.

While you're correct on the first point, your second point is actually a non-issue.
Casting a spell as a ritual is still casting that spell, which he can't do if he isn't high enough level to prepare it. Theoretically, even if you allowed a wizard to copy higher level spells into his spellbook, he still couldn't cast them as rituals because per the multiclass rules he still can't cast them, ritual or not.
So really, whether or not he can copy them into his book kind of becomes a moot point.

But the bottom line is that, No, he can't copy them into his book, No, he can't cast them as rituals, and No, he can't copy or cast them in any way unless he has enough wizard levels to do so as a single classed character.

[Puh Laden]

The key phrase for RAW here is that a wizard can only scribe spells they can "prepare" which is based off their wizard level only.

[SharkForce]

unless you can come up with a way for the wizard to scribe and prepare spells without knowing them (some people have tried, and frankly none of their arguments hold up), no you can't, even if you try to go by pure idiotic RAW without regard for what makes sense.

the multiclass rules are very clear, and are the specific rules that override the general rule. i don't give a crap what the sidebar in the wizard class (the general rule) says when there is a specific rule (in the multiclass section) that disagrees with it. the specific rule is the one you follow, and the specific rule that was written for exactly this sort of scenario says that you know spells as if you were a single class caster of each type. a level 1 wizard can only know level 1 spells, therefore that's all the wizard spells your cleric 19/wizard 1 can know.

how do we know which is the specific and the general? well, you're asking a question about multiclassing a character. the rules that are not in the multiclass section are, for this purpose, the general rules. because the question you're asking is specifically about multiclassing, the multiclassing rules are the specific ones. if there was no rule in the multiclass section handling the subject, you might have an argument. then again, you might not, because you would have no idea how spellcasting combines in the first place.