You wake up in Faerun, what do you do?

[Sordahon]

Premise is you sleep and wake up in Faerun, location of which you have knowledge or random, so I would wake up near Neverwinter City. If you don't have any info on D&D you get basic rules, and allowed to take your first class with basic items. If you start as caster class, you can instantly charge spell slots for one time, to balance things. How do you not die and make yourself a power there.

And 2nd option with plot twist of getting divine rank 0 upon choosing class capable of going higher.

[Vizzerdrix]

So we can pick where we start? Dibs on Lantan.

Step one is cobble together a bicycle.
Step two is use it to get funding for a bike shop from the church of Gond.
Step three is save cash to fund the creation of a steam engine and get that sucker into a ship.
The last step is to repay the church with that ship, and to draw investors for others AND get a sweet symbol of Gond tramp stamp.

Somewhere in their I would like to try to conquer my fear of spiders by getting a watchspider. I think if I have one that large I wont think of it as a spider, and then I can work my way down to normal spiders.

Also also, Id try to "pull a Kirk" and see if I could sample all that the world could offer :smallwink:

[sleepyphoenixx]

If we can pick where to start i'd choose Silverymoon, as a wizard. Do we get to pick time of arrival too or is it fixed? Or random?

Not only is it one of the safer places to be (it's one of the very few inhabited cities with a mythal, and Silverymoon's is pretty powerful too), it also has a really good magic academy that you can attend without paying the tuition (which you can't afford at level 1) by serving in the Spellguard for a few years.
You can also craft magic items there without having the crafting feats, which is another very useful boon.

So i spend a few years going to wizard school to get a few levels, fill up my spellbook and craft some gear, selling my spellcasting on the side to earn some spending money.
After that i can get more levels out of service in the Spellguard, which provides me with a ready-made and reasonably trustworthy group instead of going out alone or finding one.
That should let me get to mid-levels relatively safely.

Being a mid-level spellcaster should be sufficient to build on as a base without too much danger of death, especially if i keep my current knowledge.
Because i like FR fluff, so i know the locations of some pretty neat stuff that should be attainable at that point. Like the location of a full set of the Nether Scrolls.

[Celestia]

Do I wake up as myself, or can I change aspects of my physicality, like race and such? Because if I'm me in D&D land, I'll probably die pretty quickly. My Intelligence is probably, like, a 14, and my Wisdom might be a 12, but I'm assuming everything else is less than 10. That kinda sucks for every class.

[yellowrocket]

Given a choice, I become a druid. Magic and the animal companion, combined with above average intelligence, strength, and constitution mean early survival is easier.

[Gildedragon]

A) get a magic heal-up to avoid bringing in some plague into Faerun. For all we know our version of the common cold is fatal for them.
B) see about becoming a cleric or wizard Or artificer
C) start pushing towards a tippyverse

[Krazzman]

Starting as either Cleric or warlock with the intend to multiclass I would like to either start in Lantan, Waterdeep, Cormyr or something similarly safe for me to find a tutor as well as something to do with my background.

Then I would most likely die thanks to some horrible monster that I didn't know about since it would not be a game and I would most likely encounter something faaaar above my level.

[Eladrinblade]

If we can pick where to start i'd choose Silverymoon, as a wizard. Do we get to pick time of arrival too or is it fixed? Or random?

Not only is it one of the safer places to be (it's one of the very few inhabited cities with a mythal, and Silverymoon's is pretty powerful too), it also has a really good magic academy that you can attend without paying the tuition (which you can't afford at level 1) by serving in the Spellguard for a few years.
You can also craft magic items there without having the crafting feats, which is another very useful boon.

So i spend a few years going to wizard school to get a few levels, fill up my spellbook and craft some gear, selling my spellcasting on the side to earn some spending money.
After that i can get more levels out of service in the Spellguard, which provides me with a ready-made and reasonably trustworthy group instead of going out alone or finding one.
That should let me get to mid-levels relatively safely.

Being a mid-level spellcaster should be sufficient to build on as a base without too much danger of death, especially if i keep my current knowledge.
Because i like FR fluff, so i know the locations of some pretty neat stuff that should be attainable at that point. Like the location of a full set of the Nether Scrolls.

Objective best answer.

I was going to say silverymoon, but I'd be a scout with the intention of eventually being a gish.

[jedipilot24]

I would be a Warlock; as I have ADD and glasses, I would qualify for the Inattentive and Murky Eyed flaws, and the Absent-Minded trait.

My 1st level feats would be Point-blank Shot, Precise Shot, Mortalbane, and Spellfire Wielder. I would max out Use Magic Device and any skill points left over would go to Concentration, Spellcraft, and the Knowledge skills, in that order of priority.

My 3rd level feat would be Knowledge Devotion and thereafter my feats would all be Extra Invocation.

I would try to find an adventuring party to attach myself to and then do my best to stay alive.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Objective best answer.

I was going to say silverymoon, but I'd be a scout with the intention of eventually being a gish.

Yeah, i'd rather not do any adventuring (or anything else requiring actual combat) until at least level 5 or so. Preferably even later.
Because i'd almost certainly die - being an unfit nerd with no combat experience whatsoever - which would be a shame when i finally have ultimate cosmic power within my reach. :smalltongue:

Better to start off in a reasonably safe place, learn magic in a school full of strong wizards of good alignment that provides plenty of resources and earn money by casting spells like Mending and Identify.
Even casting cantrips is easily enough to earn a comfortable living, so there's really no need to risk my life. You can earn even more with Craft: Alchemy, first with Magecraft and then with Unseen Crafter at level 3.
Maybe i can even earn enough for academy tuition to get out of the military service. Or at least shorten it.

SMs Mythal grants everyone PfE and blocks [Evil], [Death], [Teleportation] and [Fire] spells, among other things, and it keeps out lots of evil creatures. So you're probably safer than anywhere else in FR.
And being just one academy student among hundreds should further protect you from everything but random chance.

[AnachroNinja]

Start in Waterdeep just because it's large enough to find anything without being too incredibly dangerous.

Psion(Telepath). Charm lots of people, make friends, level up and go for Thrallherd. Start a cult that worships me. Nothing overtly evil or anything, just accrue wealth and power.

[Karl Aegis]

I guess I would take the Apprentice feat so I could get to level 5 without endangering myself so when I take the Mentor feat I could teach aristocrats how to be actually decent.

[Elkad]

Start in Waterdeep just because it's large enough to find anything without being too incredibly dangerous.

Psion(Telepath). Charm lots of people, make friends, level up and go for Thrallherd. Start a cult that worships me. Nothing overtly evil or anything, just accrue wealth and power.

"Mind Control a bunch of people, but don't be evil."
Yeah, I don't think that's possible. Slavery is less evil than Charms.

[Xanyo]

I'm a level 1 human Pugilist. I have the Troll-Blooded feat. Wisdom is my highest score. Glue myself to an adventuring party, multiclass into some variant of paladin(with Serenity), then go into Bone Knight.

[Red Fel]

Pretty sure I've answered this before (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?507769-Playgrounders-in-D-amp-D).

Short version?


Rule.

Pretty much like I do now, frankly.

Longer version?


Think about it this way. Take your average, middling-accomplished individual, reasonably intelligent, somewhat savvy. Put him in a medieval fantasy world. If he isn't quickly killed, he'll use common-level modern knowledge, and do something - like triggering an industrial revolution - that winds up with him obscenely wealthy and living in the lap of luxury.

Now, replace Joe Blow with me.

Do I even need a plan? Arrive, gain power and influence, revolutionize the world, become a living god, retire to a palace the size of a small town. Be worshiped and served until I die/ become immortal/ ascend to godhood.

It ain't complicated.

Which I can pull off, because apparently, in real life, I have 26 Int (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21475634&postcount=267).

But yeah, that's the point. Fact is, if you - yes, you, personally - woke up in any D&D setting as a level 1 character, your options are either (1) make your way to the nearest spot of civilization within hours, (2) attach yourself like a parasitic lamprey to the underbelly of strong people or organizations, (3) some combination of 1 and 2, or (4) hope that your death is swift and painless.

It won't be.

If I can make it to a large enough city, and if Common correlates to any of my languages known, all I need to do is diplomance one listening ear. Just one. After that, everything flows naturally.

If I can't do that, I basically die in a gutter.

All that said, I've already generated me as a level 1 character in a fantasy world. He looks something like this.

In a world where PCs are a thing:Red Fel
Erudite (Spell to Power variant) 1
STR: 8
DEX: 10
CON: 12
INT: 261
WIS: 13
CHA: 14

Feats: Overchannel (Human bonus feat), Psicrystal Affinity2.
PP/day: 2+43
Powers Known4: Attraction; Demoralize; Far Hand; Inertial Armor; Matter Agitation; Mind Thrust; Missive; Synchronicity; Synesthete; Vigor.

1 The 15 in the Elite Array is here replaced by Red Fel's natural Int score, which has previously been established as 26.
2 The Spell to Power variant Erudite gains Psicrystal Affinity as a normal Erudite, but loses its bonus feat.
3 INT grants a bonus to PP/day.
4 An Erudite starts play with two 1st-level powers known, plus one for every point of INT modifier. Red Fel has an INT modifier of +8.

Sure, Psion (Telepath) is nice, and Thrallherd is great, but I can do so much more with an STP Erudite.

[redwizard007]

I'd wake up a Bard in Longsaddle. When hanging out with the Harpells gets boring... If hanging with the Harpells ever gets boring, I'd travel to Silverymoon.

[AnachroNinja]

Sure, Psion (Telepath) is nice, and Thrallherd is great, but I can do so much more with an STP Erudite.

Sometimes it's more about style then power, that's all. Plus there's a pretty decent chance that at least one God keeps a permanent lookout for things like StP Erudite and just kills them early. I don't want to risk that. Psion is enough for me to have a comfortable life.


"Mind Control a bunch of people, but don't be evil."
Yeah, I don't think that's possible. Slavery is less evil than Charms.

One, I didn't say I'd control them. I said I'd charm them and make friends. Friends are less likely to kill or rob you early in your career which is good. Not trying to have thralls early on, just a favor here or there.

Two, "Mind control is worse then slavery" is the kind of weird ethical blanket statement nonsense you hear mostly from people who aren't actually familiar with how bad slavery can get, and involves the assumption that loss of free will without knowing it is somehow worse then loss of free will via violence and abuse.

Three, I'm pretty sure I said I wasn't going to be Overtly Evil.

[Red Fel]

Sometimes it's more about style then power, that's all. Plus there's a pretty decent chance that at least one God keeps a permanent lookout for things like StP Erudite and just kills them early. I don't want to risk that. Psion is enough for me to have a comfortable life.

Pretty sure that would be Mystra, who frankly doesn't care unless your actions threaten the Weave.

And honestly? It would solve a lot of problems if a deity attempted to snuff me right out of the gate. Either I would be spared a lot of frustration and anxiety in dealing with this new world, with its unforgivable lack of HBO, or I would somehow survive a direct attempt at divine intervention, and immediately become some kind of celebrity and/or cult leader.

Also: Are you suggesting I lack style? Morality, sure; a tasteful sense of humor, perhaps; respect for the deceased, no doubt; but style?

[AnachroNinja]

Pretty sure that would be Mystra, who frankly doesn't care unless your actions threaten the Weave.

And honestly? It would solve a lot of problems if a deity attempted to snuff me right out of the gate. Either I would be spared a lot of frustration and anxiety in dealing with this new world, with its unforgivable lack of HBO, or I would somehow survive a direct attempt at divine intervention, and immediately become some kind of celebrity and/or cult leader.

Also: Are you suggesting I lack style? Morality, sure; a tasteful sense of humor, perhaps; respect for the deceased, no doubt; but style?

True, but things like StP Erudite are rarely if ever addressed in setting material and books set in Faerun, so it's a grey area as to how they'd interact with a suddenly real Forgotten Realms. I'm not saying it's likely, but it's a legitimate concern I think. For the same reason I wouldn't pursue any PunPun style shenanigans.

I wouldn't say You personally lack style, I'm merely stating that I don't think StP Erudite is the most stylish choice you could make, in my opinion.

[Celestia]

Also, you said that I wake up in Faerun. Does that mean other setting material is off the table? Could I be a warforged?

A more important question, though: would I even want to be a warforged? I really like the race, but would I like being one? Giving up my genitals is a rather big deal... Especially when I haven't even used them yet. D:

[AnachroNinja]

Also, you said that I wake up in Faerun. Does that mean other setting material is off the table? Could I be a warforged?

A more important question, though: would I even want to be a warforged? I really like the race, but would I like being one? Giving up my genitals is a rather big deal... Especially when I haven't even used them yet. D:

Is it twisted that now I have this idea of a desperate Warforged always trying to save and make money to pay for polymorphs in to other humanoids from the neighborhood wizard so he can get laid?

[Celestia]

Is it twisted that now I have this idea of a desperate Warforged always trying to save and make money to pay for polymorphs in to other humanoids from the neighborhood wizard so he can get laid?
That would make for a great character in a tragic story. Though, I'm guessing that sci-fi is probably already lousy with similar tales.

[Hecuba]

This depends heavily on whether or not I have to wake up as human or humanoid.

I don't want to adventure. Ever, at all, even a little bit. I am incredibly risk averse, and D&D worlds are freaking deathtraps. I don't want to be "a power" in Faerun - that sounds like a good way to die.

That said, I also want to live forever: I'm comfortable with the idea that that will not happen, but - despite some very deep concerns about properly securing against hacking - I would very much jump onboard for uploading my brain to a computer if it became a possibility in my lifetime.

If I can wake up as an Elan or a Warforged, I'm hunky-dory. I'll wake up near Silverymoon - as noted, they are the more or less the safest city available - as a Elan or Warforged mage-wright (I would very much like to be able to port this from Eberron, but I'll work with another class if needed) and cobble my into Master Alchemist. That seems like a way to live a comfortable life without being seen as powerful enough to need killing. A couple levels should go into dips to get things like improved evasion and mettle -- because at some point, I'll have to save against something. If at all possible, I would prefer that all leveling should be done through the Apprentice feat, skill challenges, and non-lethal traps.

If I have to wake up as human and acquire immortality, I'm going to have to shove myself into cloud anchorite, which realistically means monk. Anything else that becomes immortal will likely be powerful enough (both mechanically and politically) to attract attention and thus get killed. Cloud Anchorite can at least be passed off as that weird hermit living on the mountain (said mountain should preferably be in the portion of the Nether Mountains regularly patrolled by Silverymoon forces).


Also, you said that I wake up in Faerun. Does that mean other setting material is off the table? Could I be a warforged?
Didn't they technically get ported over at some point? I though the rather bizarre point of branding Races of Eberron a non-eberron book was to make the content setting portable.


A more important question, though: would I even want to be a warforged? I really like the race, but would I like being one? Giving up my genitals is a rather big deal...

I'd consider it a very significant net gain, even if it didn't make me functionally immortal. The horizontal tango is fun, but the human body is frankly disgusting. We have rooms in most buildings dedicated to things so disgusting that we don't discuss them in public: things so inherently shameful we have to teach children that they shouldn't hate themselves because everybody shares their shame (https://www.amazon.com/Everyone-Turtleback-School-Library-Binding/dp/0613685725).

[Dagroth]

Yeah, if I get to choose my race (and don't go outrageous LA) I'm going Chameleon. Although, given I'm already pushing 50, Elf might be a better choice.

I'm also going Gestalt, since I multitask like nobody's business and have a knack for learning unrelated things and finding connections between them. So, Able Learner as my bonus feat. I'm not going to have Flaws, since I'm a shapechanger... Bad eyesight? Shapechange my eyes to be perfect!

Go Chameleon Substitution Feat Rogue on one side, Warblade on the other... or maybe Psi-Warrior because, psionics!. Two levels of Feat Rogue are important, because Evasion! After that, start on Wizard or Artificer. After 4 levels of Warblade, jump into Warshaper for 4 or 5 levels.

Travel the world as whoever I want to look like... disguise myself as a deceptively strong 12 year old because... Warshaper.

Eventually going to want to get to the ability to travel to other planes and see if I can't get back home.

[Telok]

Silverymoon, safe.
Caster, probably wiz or psi.
Crafter, I can make stuff.
Start with basic logic switches and resetting traps of 'telephone' made of magic.
Work up to the advanced math calculators and basic computing. Meanwhile: television.
Gain immortality as a side effect of being rich and using magic.
Leave, go plane hopping to interesting (and relatively safe) places.

[Clistenes]

1.-Start worshipping some decent deity, because I don't want to go to the Wall of the Faithless if I die. Isis from Mulhorand, Kwan Ying from Kara-Tur, Qotal from Maztica, Selune, Deneir, Eldath from the Faerunian pantheon are all nice enough.

2.-Try to find my way to Silverymoon, and try to earn their acceptance arousing their curiosity with stories about my homeworld. If I can't reach Silverymoon, the Order of the Many-Starred Cloak in Nevewinter or the New Olamn of Waterdeep will do.

3.-Try to learn wizardly magic. I won't survive long using my physical skills...

4.-Get the **** out of Abeir-Toril, either using Plane Shift or joining a Spelljamming vessel. Try to reach a place where meddling gods and powerful arcane organizations don't mess everything constantly.

5.-Try to make my way to a safe place of learning like The Eight Happinesses or Nectar of Life or Heart's Fairh in Lunia, Goldfire or the Great Library in Solania, Gizekhtet in Buxenus, Quietude in Amoria, Crescent en Heartspace...etc. Learn as much as I can.

6.-Make myself rich and immortal with magic.

7.-Retire somewhere nice.

8.-Profit.

[Shalist]

1.-Start worshipping some decent deity, because I don't want to go to the Wall of the Faithless if I die.I tend to forget about that wall; given how likely we are to die early even with a soft landing, a great suggestion.

---

I'll aim for Silverymere initially, and worship Eilistraee; her emphasis on tolerance and redemption rather than exterminating everything appeals to me.

I'll go straight Artificer for having access to every class spell list 2 levels earlier than the classes themselves (via item creation, i.e. scrolls and wands). I'll take skill focus: UMD, and magical training (mending and prestidigitation) for my initial feats. Bestow curse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bestowCurse.htm) is 2nd level spell via the Demonologist list (Artificer Bargain Bin (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12661)), and allows you to 'curse' yourself with permanent bonuses and perks (that are 'no more powerful' than the suggested debuffs, which are expanded on in BoVD and Dragon Magazine).

Naturally all my scrolls will be alignment/class/skill restricted to decrease their cost, and I'll use the first few to boost my UMD checks and obtain several cost reduction feats. Between my cantrips and being able to 'cast' even the most obscure of 1st and 2nd level spells, this should leave me with fairly secure income, and every week that passes will see me 'cursing' myself with more feats and perks on top of whatever other advancements I make.

[unseenmage]

As always with these threads I materialize as an Artificer or equivalent non-divine full caster, break the world over my knee via Construct theoretical optimization, then use the power garnered thusly to try to get home to my family, or better bring them to the magic-verse and live comfortably.

[Someguy231]

1: Worship Bahamut, become a Dragonborn of Bahamut, and get wings for FLYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2: I may head my ass over to the Hordelands, get me a horse, and take levels in Warblade, maybe a dip in Barbarian cause I get pissed from time to time.

3: Try to be buds with the Khahan at the time (Either Yamun or Hubadai. Maybe Hubadai for non-evil alignment). If I wanna survive, I wanna know the people around be more better than whats in the books.

4: ???

5: PROFIT! :P

[Xar Zarath]

As far as race goes, I am ok with being human, no need to go all that far.
As with some of the thread's posters, I would like to be in Silverymoon, learning to become a Wizard. Maybe level up only with RP and non-violent "quests". Honestly half the things in Faerun are probably some archmage in disguise. ASAP, learn powerful spells and get the hell out of there. Heck if FR is real is PF real?

Cos' I would love to go to Golarion for a while. Its not that bad there. Learn some more spells and a few to maintain my youth and life. After a while, a personal demiplane should be constructed and then a quiet retirement. Maybe I'll come back to Earth and build my demiplane in the Ethereal coterminous with our world. A quiet simple life of my own making.

[Coidzor]

I think the biggest problem, in terms of planning, is how to gain knowledge of Earth's location, as I believe only Elminster possesses that knowledge and there's nothing one could offer him, even with all the technical knowledge to pull off as much of an Industrial and technological revolution as the gods will allow without ganking you and ultra-destroying all traces of you.

[Deophaun]

Same thing I do in every Forgotten Realms campaign:

Elminster's laundry.

[Someguy231]

Same thing I do in every Forgotten Realms campaign:

Elminster's laundry.

Life goals right here! HELL YEAH! Doing the jobs no one wants for 40 hours a week, and then you soon be on top if ya save that cash! WHOO!

IDK, don't mind me, I actually took enjoyment in your post. c:

[Deophaun]

Hey, those robes ain't gonna prestidigitation themselves.

Well, actually, considering who they belong to, they probably do. So, cushy job, then.

[Quertus]

Then I would most likely die thanks to some horrible monster that I didn't know about since it would not be a game and I would most likely encounter something faaaar above my level.
1.-Start worshipping some decent deity, because I don't want to go to the Wall of the Faithless if I die.

Yeah, death comes far too easily when the world is as powerful as FR, but not auto-scaled to your level. But I'd not worship something I couldn't respect.

So my plan would be to get out asap. Level somewhere safer, and safer to die. Or just live safely somewhere safer. I'm not really interested in being a mover and shaker per se.

But, fine, let's pretend I was. I'd still go level somewhere else. Either by showing up, if I could choose, when and where those who would recognize and help me happen to be. Or by traveling back in time to rescue myself, once I had done this whole leveling thing. Note to self: I really need to get characters actively looking for me to show up, to make this kind of situation easier to deal with.

If I got to choose, personally, I think I'd prefer to be a Troll-Blooded Paragon Elan Arcane Spellcaster with spell points. Well, or maybe some more TO cheese, but a lot of that doesn't sound as fun to actually be.

I'd probably want to become the God of Time (off to a good start, since my "first" act is to encounter the me who traveled back in time to set these events in motion :smallcool:) and just keep reliving the hundred years or so before the world converts to 4e. :smallyuk: Remember that when planning any immortal builds!


I think the biggest problem, in terms of planning, is how to gain knowledge of Earth's location, as I believe only Elminster possesses that knowledge and there's nothing one could offer him, even with all the technical knowledge to pull off as much of an Industrial and technological revolution as the gods will allow without ganking you and ultra-destroying all traces of you.

Oerth = Earth. Not sure how many other D&D worlds are also Earth. Problem is, they are Earth's future, so I'm not sure how much good knowing it's location will do you...

[Krazzman]

Yeah, death comes far too easily when the world is as powerful as FR, but not auto-scaled to your level. But I'd not worship something I couldn't respect.

So my plan would be to get out asap. Level somewhere safer, and safer to die. Or just live safely somewhere safer. I'm not really interested in being a mover and shaker per se.

But, fine, let's pretend I was. I'd still go level somewhere else. Either by showing up, if I could choose, when and where those who would recognize and help me happen to be. Or by traveling back in time to rescue myself, once I had done this whole leveling thing. Note to self: I really need to get characters actively looking for me to show up, to make this kind of situation easier to deal with.

If I got to choose, personally, I think I'd prefer to be a Troll-Blooded Paragon Elan Arcane Spellcaster with spell points. Well, or maybe some more TO cheese, but a lot of that doesn't sound as fun to actually be.

I'd probably want to become the God of Time (off to a good start, since my "first" act is to encounter the me who traveled back in time to set these events in motion :smallcool:) and just keep reliving the hundred years or so before the world converts to 4e. :smallyuk: Remember that when planning any immortal builds!



Oerth = Earth. Not sure how many other D&D worlds are also Earth. Problem is, they are Earth's future, so I'm not sure how much good knowing it's location will do you...

Even if my worship of some god worked I personally run into the problem of having a tattoo that is really close to cyric's symbol. I doubt that that would get me anything with the gods I would respect enough (Mystra, Kelemvor or Kossuth, maybe Tempus or someone with travel in their portfolio)... if it wouldn't be an outright death sentence.

[Coidzor]

Oerth = Earth. Not sure how many other D&D worlds are also Earth. Problem is, they are Earth's future, so I'm not sure how much good knowing it's location will do you...

No, Oerth is Oerth. More people from Oerth have visited Earth than people from Toril have visited Earth, as far as I'm aware Elminster is the only one, whereas Mordenkainen and a few others have visited Earth at one time or another and one of the hero deities of Greyhawk literally has a pair of revolvers from Earth.

Really, the only risk you've brought up is that maybe current day Oerth and Toril would only allow you to travel to Earth circa the late 1970s.

[Sordahon]

"Mind Control a bunch of people, but don't be evil."
Yeah, I don't think that's possible. Slavery is less evil than Charms.
Charm for low level just makes you a friend for a while, good for bartering? diplomacy? Like charming merchant to sell you his favorite dagger, and subtly conversing as almost friend, I don't know if they can detect they are charmed on failed save against it.

[SirNibbles]

If I have to wake up as human and acquire immortality, I'm going to have to shove myself into cloud anchorite, which realistically means monk. Anything else that becomes immortal will likely be powerful enough (both mechanically and politically) to attract attention and thus get killed. Cloud Anchorite can at least be passed off as that weird hermit living on the mountain (said mountain should preferably be in the portion of the Nether Mountains regularly patrolled by Silverymoon forces).


That's a plan I can get behind.

Monk 2/Mystic Ranger 4 qualifies for Cloud Anchorite, getting you 16 BAB at 20 with Monk 2/Mystic Ranger 8/Cloud Anchorite 10. With Sword of the Arcane Order (Champions of Valor, page 34), you have 4th level Ranger and Wizard spells available to you. You're not strong enough to attract attention but you do have a nice increase in power thanks to your spellcasting.

[Bullet06320]

im thinking chicken infested commoner with magical training feat (mage hand, prestidigitation + launch item) red head feat for summon fey
silverymoon seems like a decent place to be, with lots of fellow playgrounders
change my name to kernol sanders open up a chicken resteraunt, franchise it, and then retire

[khadgar567]

if no homebrew then hope appear somewhere with artificer collage so i can put my sweet brain to use and find way to jump in to starfinder universe( aka golarion) then fetch my self a ship and go back to earth if i hit right after i disappear i can continue my life as nothing happened

[sleepyphoenixx]

Really, the only risk you've brought up is that maybe current day Oerth and Toril would only allow you to travel to Earth circa the late 1970s.
That's not really a problem if you go for the immortality route, is it?
Even if you don't want to live through the 80s & 90s (again?), you can just hang out in a private demiplane for a decade or two.

Personally i'd kind of like to visit a few concerts that i was too young for when they happened.


Charm for low level just makes you a friend for a while, good for bartering? diplomacy? Like charming merchant to sell you his favorite dagger, and subtly conversing as almost friend, I don't know if they can detect they are charmed on failed save against it.
Using enchantment magic on people is a good way to make enemies if they notice. Nobody likes being magically compelled. And i'd assume that in a high-magic world that's something people recognize, specifically people who might lose a lot from it (merchants, nobles and other people in positions with wealth and/or power).
You're probably better off just using diplomacy to make people friendly or at least personal enhancement magic like Eagle's Splendor instead of Charm Person.

Charm Person is more a thing you use when you don't have to see the person again, because chances are they'll be wondering why they felt so friendly toward you the last time otherwise even if they failed their save. And if they succeed they'll know you tried to do something magical to them, which is probably not good for making friends.


That's a plan I can get behind.

Monk 2/Mystic Ranger 4 qualifies for Cloud Anchorite, getting you 16 BAB at 20 with Monk 2/Mystic Ranger 8/Cloud Anchorite 10. With Sword of the Arcane Order (Champions of Valor, page 34), you have 4th level Ranger and Wizard spells available to you. You're not strong enough to attract attention but you do have a nice increase in power thanks to your spellcasting.
I don't think you have to worry too much about attracting attention unless you go looking for it until get to epic levels (and by then you don't need to worry anymore). There's tons of mid-high level spellcasters in FR.
Another mid-level wizard won't even appear on most peoples radar, at least not if you go the "harmless scholar" route.

The problem with Sword of the Arcane Order is that you have to be a member of the Order of Shooting Stars or the Mystic Fire Knights.
Aside from getting the followers of Shar, Bane & Cyric after you pretty much by default and having to do missions for the church of Mystra (that probably involve combat) that also means you're getting involved in the business of the goddess of stupid deaths.
That doesn't seem like the best way to go if you want to play it safe.

[unseenmage]

IIRC Faerun has spelljammer ports secreted away in several locations. Spelljamming opens up litereral worlds of possibilities.

[Hecuba]

I don't think you have to worry too much about attracting attention unless you go looking for it until get to epic levels (and by then you don't need to worry anymore). There's tons of mid-high level spellcasters in FR.
Another mid-level wizard won't even appear on most peoples radar, at least not if you go the "harmless scholar" route.

See, harmless scholars get sought out for obscure knowledge by adventures. Sometimes, the villains kill the harmless scholars to keep the adventurers from getting the important but obscure knowledge.

It's very important that I be perceived as an NPC, but not one that can be construed as :

a Mentor
a Quest Giver
Powerful in any way

[Vizzerdrix]

See, harmless scholars get sought out for obscure knowledge by adventures. Sometimes, the villains kill the harmless scholars to keep the adventurers from getting the important but obscure knowledge.

It's very important that I be perceived as an NPC, but not one that can be construed as :

a Mentor
a Quest Giver
Powerful in any way


New plan. I follow Hecuba around telling wild tales of her darring do!

[Bronk]

See, harmless scholars get sought out for obscure knowledge by adventures. Sometimes, the villains kill the harmless scholars to keep the adventurers from getting the important but obscure knowledge.

It's very important that I be perceived as an NPC, but not one that can be construed as :

a Mentor
a Quest Giver
Powerful in any way


I've always thought the easiest way to ensure your safety would be by playing a character the Wedded to History feat who hasn't started playing yet. Starting anywhere, but probably in a nicer area like Waterdeep or Silverymoon, be a 1st level commoner with the chicken infested (for food and money!) and Wedded to History feats, then just go with the flow, never do anything overly interesting, and if asked to do anything, or if attacked, say 'Sorry, I'm new here'. You can follow that up with 'I'm not going to be a PC for quite some time,' although they may just get confused. That way you get immortality and comfort, and you don't have to 'live in interesting times.'

What I'd most want to do would be to be a warforged gestalt sorcerer/cleric of Mystra, plopped down in Myth Drannor, specifically in the hidden and protected room containing the full set of Nether Scrolls that's been transformed into a beech tree. Not needing food or water, I could then study the tree without interruption and shoot ahead 50 levels. I'd take 20 levels of sorcerer, 20 of wizard, and 10 of planeshifter on the arcane side. On the other side, I'd take cleric, church inquisitor, and increasing levels of dweomerkeeper. By the time 50 weeks are up, I would have plenty of free supernatural wishes to outfit myself, increase my stats, and turn myself into a LeShay. At that point I could try to retire to my personal demiplane or hang out in the Court of Stars, or possibly become one of Mystra's agents that sprinkles treasure around for adventurers to find. If anything went wrong, I could call for help from Mystra's chosen by whispering their names and asking for help (and if they refuse, repeat over and over without cease until they show up). Either way, I'd follow all of this up by doing my level best to keep Fourth Edition rules from taking over (share knowledge and prevent the Spellplague, etc.).

[sleepyphoenixx]

See, harmless scholars get sought out for obscure knowledge by adventures. Sometimes, the villains kill the harmless scholars to keep the adventurers from getting the important but obscure knowledge.

It's very important that I be perceived as an NPC, but not one that can be construed as :

a Mentor
a Quest Giver
Powerful in any way

Harmless scholar/magic student of no outstanding talent then, specifically.

If adventurers want to know obscure knowledge they'll go to the library (which is headed by a Loremaster and even provides a book-searching service by NPC librarians for a small fee) or one of the teachers, not a simple student. Thanks to the academy the city has hundreds of people just like you. You're so NPC-y that you couldn't be more invisible with Superior Invisibility cast on you. Permanent Protection from Plot, if you will.

Just, you know, try not to become the top student of your year. Or his/her rival. :smallbiggrin:

By the time you're the go-to scholar for that stuff you're hopefully strong enough to deal with it. And filled with contingencies in case you're not. And in a private demiplane so you don't actually have to.
You'll just have to be the most mediocre, run-of-the-mill epic archmage ever. Paranoia should also help. Because they might possibly be out to get you anyway, so better not take chances.

I've always thought the easiest way to ensure your safety would be by playing a character the Wedded to History feat who hasn't started playing yet. Starting anywhere, but probably in a nicer area like Waterdeep or Silverymoon, be a 1st level commoner with the chicken infested (for food and money!) and Wedded to History feats, then just go with the flow, never do anything overly interesting, and if asked to do anything, or if attacked, say 'Sorry, I'm new here'. You can follow that up with 'I'm not going to be a PC for quite some time,' although they may just get confused. That way you get immortality and comfort, and you don't have to 'live in interesting times.'
That's kind of pointless, isn't it? I mean, you're getting dropped into a high magic setting. Magic! Learnable by everyone! (Unless you're very stupid, but i'll assume you're at least moderately intelligent).
Or psionics, if that's more your thing.

Being cautious is one thing, but do you really want to squander the opportunity to learn magic (MAGIC!) to live your life as a chicken farmer? With medieval living standards? You know, drafty mud hut, no running water, no electricity, frequent bandit raids and so on? Instead of living in a cool wizards tower and replacing modern comforts with magic? Coupled with immortality that sounds like a curse far worse than "live in interesting times".
Hell, i'd choose becoming a 1st level adventurer before that, with all the risks that implies. Even a fighter if necessary. Even risking being eaten by trolls sounds more tolerable than that kind of life.
"Eternity as a chicken farmer"? No thanks, i'll go teabagging a dire bear cub in front of its mother instead (after choosing a suitable deity as patron). At least it'll be quick.

Because, and i really can't emphasize this enough, you could learn magic. Really strong and versatile magic too, by the standards of most settings. Magic that will keep you safe even in FR. As safe as modern day earth at least.
And until you get to archmage levels you're completely unremarkable to the world at large unless you actually go out of your way to draw attention, because FR has no shortage of spellcasters.

Not to mention that commoners die pretty easily as simple collateral damage, so it's not like being one would keep you safe.
You only have to get unlucky once, and a commoner needs a lot less bad luck to shuffle off the mortal coil than even a mid level caster.


What I'd most want to do would be to be a warforged gestalt sorcerer/cleric of Mystra, plopped down in Myth Drannor, specifically in the hidden and protected room containing the full set of Nether Scrolls that's been transformed into a beech tree. Not needing food or water, I could then study the tree without interruption and shoot ahead 50 levels. I'd take 20 levels of sorcerer, 20 of wizard, and 10 of planeshifter on the arcane side. On the other side, I'd take cleric, church inquisitor, and increasing levels of dweomerkeeper. By the time 50 weeks are up, I would have plenty of free supernatural wishes to outfit myself, increase my stats, and turn myself into a LeShay. At that point I could try to retire to my personal demiplane or hang out in the Court of Stars, or possibly become one of Mystra's agents that sprinkles treasure around for adventurers to find. If anything went wrong, I could call for help from Mystra's chosen by whispering their names and asking for help (and if they refuse, repeat over and over without cease until they show up). Either way, I'd follow all of this up by doing my level best to keep Fourth Edition rules from taking over (share knowledge and prevent the Spellplague, etc.).
The ruins of Windsong Tower (where the last complete set of Nether Scrolls is) is described in Anauroch:Empire of Shade.
There's actually the headmaster of the school still around (constructified, but still), and he doesn't like non-elves putting their grubby paws on his magic tree (or anything else in the tower, really).
Especially not weird golems appearing out of nowhere, or at least so i'd presume.
Not to mention the shades want to get their hands on those scrolls, and they do manage that in A:EoS, despite the CR ~12-15 encounters in the tower. So it's not all that safe there either. It's trapped too.
Reading the Nether Scrolls takes 1 month per scroll, so it'll take at least a year until you have at least a chance to defend against them. Better hope you're arriving early enough in the timeline.

You also can't read the 5th chapter of the scrolls (the one on artifact creation) without knowing the key, which is lost (even to the mages of Myth Drannor before the fall), so you only get 40 levels at most.

As for cleric of Mystra, being a cleric of a goddess (especially a high level one) i'd assume that said lady is going to want you to do stuff for her. Plot-level stuff, most likely.
Refusing and retiring somewhere is likely to end up with your cleric powers revoked, because Mystra is your DM now in that regard. And if you refuse the railroad then no divine magic for you!:smalltongue:

Harassing the Chosen of Mystra is likely to get you Baleful Polymorph'd. Or Disintegrated, as the case may be. Or cut off from the Weave if you're really annoying, because that's also a thing that can happen.

[CIDE]

Upon waking up as an artificer I'm immediately greeted by my future self who traveled back in time via Teleport through Time (or some sort of gizmo. Like a blue box that's bigger on the inside) to start an ever growing nasty paradox as a large sum of resources were dropped off, equipment gifted, grafts implanted, rituals performed, etc. And of course a thought bottle with enough experience to bump me up to level 20.

In the event that I'm not greeted by my future self I'm either destroyed instantly by (insert deity here) for my future self's crimes against nature or come to realize that my future self failed miserably and died before the plan could be completed. In which case I have to figure out something else for plan B. I hear Pazuzu likes helping mortals out.

[Celestia]

Upon waking up as an artificer I'm immediately greeted by my future self who traveled back in time via Teleport through Time (or some sort of gizmo. Like a blue box that's bigger on the inside) to start an ever growing nasty paradox as a large sum of resources were dropped off, equipment gifted, grafts implanted, rituals performed, etc. And of course a thought bottle with enough experience to bump me up to level 20.

In the event that I'm not greeted by my future self I'm either destroyed instantly by (insert deity here) for my future self's crimes against nature or come to realize that my future self failed miserably and died before the plan could be completed. In which case I have to figure out something else for plan B. I hear Pazuzu likes helping mortals out.
If you use Teleport Through Time and run into yourself, you immediately go into a mindless rage (no save) and try to kill yourself.

[Hecuba]

Harmless scholar/magic student of no outstanding talent then, specifically.

If adventurers want to know obscure knowledge they'll go to the library (which is headed by a Loremaster and even provides a book-searching service by NPC librarians for a small fee) or one of the teachers, not a simple student. Thanks to the academy the city has hundreds of people just like you. You're so NPC-y that you couldn't be more invisible with Superior Invisibility cast on you. Permanent Protection from Plot, if you will.

Just, you know, try not to become the top student of your year. Or his/her rival. :smallbiggrin:

So your advise is to go to wizard school but be nameless Hufflepuff number 5? Or to go to Exorcist school, but be Konekomaru?

Justin Finch-Fletchley still gets attacked by killer snakes, and Hezbollah Smith got killed simply because some crazy wizard got obsessed with her bling-looking-antique-cup. Heck, Cedric Diggory got a name in 2nd year and the stunning and profound characterization of "good sportsman" and as a result gets caught in a deathtrap of a tournament 2 years later. Konekomaru ends up possessed by a demon and stuck going to classes with the devil's son.

Proximity is a problem. Protagonists have a gravity to them - they draw other people into their silly little death-inducing adventure stories. There are an unpleasant number of protagonists to avoid in Faerun in general, but the last place I would consider going to avoid them is Wizard school. That's like going to a furnace to avoid fire.


New plan. I follow Hecuba around telling wild tales of her darring do!
You want to force me into an arms race with you? The people in this thread are potentially the most dangerous people in the setting - we have a solid understanding of the rules the canonical characters clearly lack - and you want to force one of them to escalate their involvement?

[Ruethgar]

A) get a magic heal-up to avoid bringing in some plague into Faerun. For all we know our version of the common cold is fatal for them.

Faerun and Earth are linked by cannon, while some newer variants of illnesses might elicit a slightly more severe reaction, it is quite probable that they have some resistance already.

Probably have above average Int, ok Wis and low in pretty much everything else. If it goes by RAW and not reason, then my first level would be all of the Bloodlines and Chameleon. Would go somehting like this: Bloodline 76/Chameleon 2/Wizard 1/Archivist 1/Chameleon 2/Druid 1/Mystic Theurge 1/Monk 1/Beast Master 1/Uncanny Trickster 1/Incarnate 1/Marshal 1/Bard 1/Warblade 1/Legacy Champion 5

That would give me Monk 20/Druid 20/Chameleon 10/Beast Master 6/Wizard&Archivist casting 20/Incarnate 20/Bard 20/Warblade 20/Marshal 20 probably a bit feat starved, and a few too many active abilities, but a fair few are passive. Chameleon can hold me up well enough til I get druid and have an epic companion that can drag me through until 11 when I explode in power.

[Bad Wolf]

I'd be an elf sorcerer of Mystra. Elven so I don't die before discovering immortality, Mystra because she's nice and I won't get sent to the Wall of the Faithless, and sorcerer because I like them more than other classes. I feel that fluff works for me in this situation.

Stay with the church until I'm powerful enough, before parting gracefully. I might try and be a little eccentric, could get some plot armor that way.

[sleepyphoenixx]

So your advise is to go to wizard school but be nameless Hufflepuff number 5? Or to go to Exorcist school, but be Konekomaru?

Justin Finch-Fletchley still gets attacked by killer snakes, and Hezbollah Smith got killed simply because some crazy wizard got obsessed with her bling-looking-antique-cup. Heck, Cedric Diggory got a name in 2nd year and the stunning and profound characterization of "good sportsman" and as a result gets caught in a deathtrap of a tournament 2 years later. Konekomaru ends up possessed by a demon and stuck going to classes with the devil's son.

Proximity is a problem. Protagonists have a gravity to them - they draw other people into their silly little death-inducing adventure stories. There are an unpleasant number of protagonists to avoid in Faerun in general, but the last place I would consider going to avoid them is Wizard school. That's like going to a furnace to avoid fire.

I want to learn magic. Some risk is inevitable. I mean, i'm all for avoiding risks, but i also want to live, not just exist. I'd go to Hogwarts despite the danger if i could, because magic.
Getting to a setting like FR and not learning magic? No thanks.
Not to mention playing it safe won't actually prevent you becoming collateral damage somewhere down the line anyway, so you want to get stronger. It doesn't get stronger than high level wizard.

I just want to keep my head down and have the highest chance possible to survive while getting powerful as quickly as is feasible without unreasonable risks.
"Go to magic school" until level 5-7 is certainly safer than "go look for monsters to fight for xp" as a level 1 character.

And Silverymoon's magic academy is thankfully not Hogwarts. It's not plot-central, protagonists in the setting are generally not students, the staff and city watch are actually competent, there's temples of several good faiths around that can deal with any injuries or illnesses and you can earn a good living even as a level 1 wizard just casting 1 cantrip per day.
You also get cheap access to spells to scribe and crafting facilities. Which is huge.

It's also in Silverymoon's Mythal, so you have a whole bunch of great survival benefits right there.

Spells with the death, evil, or teleportation descriptor, conjuration (summoning) spells, and evocation [fire] spells are all forbidden by the mythal of Silverymoon. Any attempt to cast such a spell fails automatically, though the spell slot is used up normally.

The following spells are continually in effect throughout the area of the mythal, much like a spell fixed to a hallow or unhallow effect: antipathy (to all evil-aligned demons, devils, dragons, drow, duergar, giants, goblinoids, mind flayers, orcs, and trolls), detect scrying (all creatures within the mythal gain the benefits of this effect), invisibility purge, negative energy protection, and protection from evil.
That knocks off a lot of things i'd be worried about as a low-level character. No getting dominated, no level drainings, no death spells, no casters trying to drain you for your lifeforce or turning you into an undead, no invisible enemies, no summons and you can't be scryed on without your knowledge.

So unless you can suggest a safer plan to learn magic? Yeah, i suggest going to wizard school.

I'm still getting a contingent Delay Death as soon as i can afford it. And a Ring of Spellstoring packed with Heal. But that should be obvious.

[Zanos]

Yeah, I'm gonna back up phoenix on Silverymoon. Pretty much nothing bad happens there because it's not on the Sword Coast, is ruled by epic or near epic casters who like minding their own business, doesn't overreach, and has wards that were created centuries ago by other powerful epic casters. Plus it has a great prestige class and educational system in the Spellguard.

I'd personally just save up for a candle of invocation, though. :smalltongue: Failing that I become an exterminator. Rats can technically get you to level 7, 38 XP at a time.

[Deophaun]

You want to force me into an arms race with you? The people in this thread are potentially the most dangerous people in the setting - we have a solid understanding of the rules the canonical characters clearly lack
Not really. The game is attempting to model a world, the world is not attempting to play a game. It's more likely our so-called "knowledge" would get us killed as the things that are abstracted for fun/convenience suddenly become very, very defined and pressing.

[Hecuba]

I want to learn magic. Some risk is inevitable. I mean, i'm all for avoiding risks, but i also want to live, not just exist. I'd go to Hogwarts despite the danger if i could, because magic.
Getting to a setting like FR and not learning magic? No thanks.
[...]
So unless you can suggest a safer plan to learn magic? Yeah, i suggest going to wizard school.

See, I want to live too. But my idea of the good life (on Faerun or Earth) involves some basic creature comforts, a good supply of fiction and nonfiction reading material, and some stuff to tinker with when the mood takes me. But I have no interest in the kind of life that benefits from the vast majority of the wizard spell list. Magic is useful - yes, I'd like some: but I'm far more interested in prestidigitation for flavoring my coffee than I am in save or die effects.

My preferred method of getting magic would be Magewright (if its available from Eberron) or Adept. I'll take Sorcerer in a pinch. I'll take crafting feats and make a living selling minor magic items.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Not really. The game is attempting to model a world, the world is not attempting to play a game. It's more likely our so-called "knowledge" would get us killed as the things that are abstracted for fun/convenience suddenly become very, very defined and pressing.
Depends on what kind of knowledge. Mechanics probably won't help you, but being familiar with FR canon could save your life, make you rich, get you power beyond comprehension. Or all of the above.

Stuff like knowing about the mythal of Silverymoon is a good start for survival. Knowing about the mage academy and that you can get in for free in exchange for Spellguard service helps too.
That the last full set of the Nether Scrolls is safely in the ruins of Windsong Tower until 1374DR, how to get in, what traps and defenses there are and how to circumvent them.
The location of the Naja Fountain which permanently increases your arcane CL by 3, where the Dragontear Crown of Sharrven is or the locations of several other rather powerful artifacts.

Of course it can also get a giant target painted on your back. Buy a Ring of Mind Shielding ASAP.
A decent overview of politics and plots, no matter how secret. That's in the books too.
Secret organizations, hidden plots that have been in the works for decades or even centuries. The locations of several important dragon lairs, including treasure. Seriously, check out Dragons of Faerun alone and then tell me people in-setting wouldn't pay your weight in diamonds or kill for that knowledge.

Or knowing about the Spellplague. You could do a lot of good with that by telling the right people. Or use it for your own profit.
Though getting involved in the business of gods is generally bad for your health, one way or another.


See, I want to live too. But my idea of the good life (on Faerun or Earth) involves some basic creature comforts, a good supply of fiction and nonfiction reading material, and some stuff to tinker with when the mood takes me. But I have no interest in the kind of life that benefits from the vast majority of the wizard spell list. Magic is useful - yes, I'd like some: but I'm far more interested in prestidigitation for flavoring my coffee than I am in save or die effects.

My preferred method of getting magic would be Magewright (if its available from Eberron) or Adept. I'll take Sorcerer in a pinch. I'll take crafting feats and make a living selling minor magic items.

I'm not interested in save-or-die effects either (though i'll pick them up if the opportunity comes up, just in case The Call knows where i live).
Combat is for summons/minions/astral projections.
What i'm interested in is comfort spells like Magnificent Mansion, travel spells like Teleport and Plane Shift, spells to keep my privacy like Private Sanctum and Mind Blank and stuff that keeps me alive, fixes being dead, grants immortality and stops aging.
And i'm most certainly very interested in Prestidigitation. Not just for flavoring/heating/cooling my food and drink, but also for the very important "never have to do housework by hand again" cleaning function.

That said being weak isn't really protection. Obscurity defends you from targetted attacks, but not from accidents or just bad luck. Not in the real world and certainly not in FR.
Low level NPCs die all the time, and they don't even have high level friends who'd go get them rezzed!

No, to be safe you need both power and money. Power means spellcasting, and spellcasting brings money pretty much by itself.
Then you can buy immunity items. To poison. To suffocation. To disease. To death itself. Contingent spells. Minions. Private demiplanes.
Get to epic and make your own Mythal. On your own demiplane! Then you can astrally project and do whatever you like with practically no danger.

[Hecuba]

Not really. The game is attempting to model a world, the world is not attempting to play a game. It's more likely our so-called "knowledge" would get us killed as the things that are abstracted for fun/convenience suddenly become very, very defined and pressing.

The knowledge can be sufficient, if the model has points where it is sufficiently precise and accurate. Much of the rules are abstracted, but there are sufficient areas that are not.

Moreover, much of the things that would deter me from doing these things in our world can be overcome with magical compulsion directed at one's self. Hard work, sweat, fear, general disgust with the human(oid) condition - the normal humanoid avoidance to all of these can be handled with well purchased magical compulsion if needed. Perfect psychological conditioning tools make for good follow-through.


Seriously though, let me have my book-filled eternal retirement in Silverymoon. I'll keep a shop with some convenient but non-threatening potions to make ends meet - the kind that the PCs don't bother to rob because the magic mart has wands and weapons too.

If I have to get myself mindr***ed into an unpleasant sociopath murder-hobo in order to stay alive, I won't be happy.

[Zanos]

If I have to get myself mindr***ed into an unpleasant sociopath murder-hobo in order to stay alive, I won't be happy.
It's not like you can't just get yourself mindraped into buying happy with that too...

[Dagroth]

If you use Teleport Through Time and run into yourself, you immediately go into a mindless rage (no save) and try to kill yourself.

Easy to avoid. Since you know where you will have been (ugh, temporal linguistics!) you can go back in time and put everything in a location that you will have been going to be. Then you will have found what you left for yourself.

[Hecuba]

That said being weak isn't really protection. Obscurity defends you from targetted attacks, but not from accidents or just bad luck. Not in the real world and certainly not in FR.
Low level NPCs die all the time, and they don't even have high level friends who'd go get them rezzed!

I've little interest in staying low level: I just want to stay innocuous. But if you become high level via the wrong class or by the wrong method, you get the target attacks.
And if you're dealing with targeted attacks, live becomes a tedious slog of violence whether or not you can reliably survive it.

Thus - high level but minor NPC.


It's not like you can't just get yourself mindraped into buying happy with that too...

Could. Wouldn't.

[Calthropstu]

I immediately head to Gond.

I use my knowledge of architecture and science, combined with my new casting abilities, to become the most celebrated "inventer" of all time.

I advance technology to a point where it can compete with magic. When the inevitable war breaks out between casters and my mechanical golem army, I attempt to temporarily disrupt the weave leaving my opponents helpless. During that time, I fashion something to PERMANENTLY cut all divine access to Toril. Those gods interfere WAY too much in mortal affairs.

With the gods cut off and magic suspended I obliterate the Red Wizards and eliminate the zhentarim. Once magic returns, I will organize a new kingdom carving out the majority of Thay and some of the surrounding areas using technology to GREATLY improve the standard of living all over the world.

I initiate a rail system going all over the forgotten realms, make airplanes, and begin automobile distribution. Kingdoms would fall and nations would rise... turning the forgotten realms into something akin to Europe.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I've little interest in staying low level: I just want to stay innocuous. But if you become high level via the wrong class or by the wrong method, you get the target attacks.
And if you're dealing with targeted attacks, live becomes a tedious slog of violence whether or not you can reliably survive it.

Thus - high level but minor NPC.


If you're becoming high level via the wrong class you'll still die as collateral damage, though i'll admit that it's very unlikely to happen in Silverymoon.
And you can buy contingencies for that, a Magewright should certainly earn enough.
It's just a little too... placid? for me i think.

I kinda want to explore. Just, you know, relatively safely. After i've gotten that personal, warded-to-hell demiplane to astral project from so i don't get killed by the first band of goblin bandits.
Not only is there some incredibly interesting stuff to see in the world, i'd probably go crazy spending all my time in the same city.
I can put up with some discomfort for that, and with a certain level of danger.

And most of the really high level casters in FR canon don't actually have to deal with constant attacks. People leave them the hell alone and hope they reciprocate.
Even casters who have important positions and really dangerous enemies don't get attacked all that often. They get the organizations of enemy wizards trying to plot around their organizations, the ones dying are the low-mid level adventurers.

Someone who just wants to be left alone? Probably won't have too much trouble. Especially one who's warded against divination and has no fixed residence on the material plane.

[Vizzerdrix]

You want to force me into an arms race with you? The people in this thread are potentially the most dangerous people in the setting - we have a solid understanding of the rules the canonical characters clearly lack - and you want to force one of them to escalate their involvement?

Im just saying that YOU will be the most wrightiest mage to EVER magewright in the whole history of forever, and that you called Elminster a tacky dresser. Very loudly. To everyone. :smallbiggrin:

But honestly, if presented with the sort of opportunity presented in this topic, I find it difficult to understand not making more of it. So, I guess yes. I would poke and prod someone who had greater opt-fu than myself into action one way or another, for better or worse.

[Clistenes]

So your advise is to go to wizard school but be nameless Hufflepuff number 5? Or to go to Exorcist school, but be Konekomaru?

Justin Finch-Fletchley still gets attacked by killer snakes, and Hezbollah Smith got killed simply because some crazy wizard got obsessed with her bling-looking-antique-cup. Heck, Cedric Diggory got a name in 2nd year and the stunning and profound characterization of "good sportsman" and as a result gets caught in a deathtrap of a tournament 2 years later. Konekomaru ends up possessed by a demon and stuck going to classes with the devil's son.

Proximity is a problem. Protagonists have a gravity to them - they draw other people into their silly little death-inducing adventure stories. There are an unpleasant number of protagonists to avoid in Faerun in general, but the last place I would consider going to avoid them is Wizard school. That's like going to a furnace to avoid fire.


You want to force me into an arms race with you? The people in this thread are potentially the most dangerous people in the setting - we have a solid understanding of the rules the canonical characters clearly lack - and you want to force one of them to escalate their involvement?

I would try to learn magic because I would need it in order to GTF out of Abeir-Toril. Yes, peasant nº13456 won't be targeted by gods, liches, the Zhentarim, the Red Wizards or by Elminster, but he will be eaten by some random Gnoll or Ghoul or die when the next Spellplague happens...

Plane Shift is 7th level for Wizards, but I'm sure there is some trick that would allow me to cut corners and reach Nectar of Life, The Eight Happinesses or Goldfire before that...

[Bronk]

Being cautious is one thing, but do you really want to squander the opportunity to learn magic (MAGIC!) to live your life as a chicken farmer?

...

Because, and i really can't emphasize this enough, you could learn magic. Really strong and versatile magic too, by the standards of most settings. Magic that will keep you safe even in FR. As safe as modern day earth at least.
And until you get to archmage levels you're completely unremarkable to the world at large unless you actually go out of your way to draw attention, because FR has no shortage of spellcasters.

Not to mention that commoners die pretty easily as simple collateral damage, so it's not like being one would keep you safe.
You only have to get unlucky once, and a commoner needs a lot less bad luck to shuffle off the mortal coil than even a mid level caster.

Well, Hecuba said he wanted to be safe by staying out of the limelight.

The thing about the Wedded to History as a PC feat is that you start the game ancient, having lived for who knows how long, and survived to start your adventuring career unscathed. However, if you're genre savvy enough to stay an NPC, with PC-hood in the distant future, you'll be safe until then.

But yes, for myself, I would learn as much magic as I could.



The ruins of Windsong Tower (where the last complete set of Nether Scrolls is) is described in Anauroch:Empire of Shade.
There's actually the headmaster of the school still around (constructified, but still), and he doesn't like non-elves putting their grubby paws on his magic tree (or anything else in the tower, really).
Especially not weird golems appearing out of nowhere, or at least so i'd presume.

Reading the Nether Scrolls takes 1 month per scroll, so it'll take at least a year until you have at least a chance to defend against them. Better hope you're arriving early enough in the timeline.

You also can't read the 5th chapter of the scrolls (the one on artifact creation) without knowing the key, which is lost (even to the mages of Myth Drannor before the fall), so you only get 40 levels at most.



Good call, I hadn't seen that! I read through the book, which was fun!

But, it turns out that the guy who's watching over Windsong Tower isn't very observant. He was zoned out and didn't wake up until after the Shades had busted in and stolen everything! As for being a weird construct, so is he... he's a floor! A very unobservant floor, in another room (who has simulacrums that don't do anything unless he's paying attention).

My plan will remain only slightly altered: Plopping myself down as a warforged gestalt sorcerer//cleric, during one of the many time periods that Darcassan is zoning out, sitting immovably, studying the Quess Ar Teranthvar for months on end. Darcassan won't notice, and Tyvollus Aluviirsan won't be able to do anything either, powerless in his spider form keeping the tree together.

By the time I've understood the first 40 scrolls, I'll be more than ready to unlock the last ten. Darcassan couldn't do it, but then again the he only has 13 arcane levels. (I'm not sure he's been making the best use of his time in there with the tree.) I'll be level 41, and have access to plenty of free, supernatural wishes to help me out (wishing up stat increases and items, skill items, maybe finally wishing myself into an elf for a bit using the rules in Savage Species before becoming LeShay).




Not to mention the shades want to get their hands on those scrolls, and they do manage that in A:EoS, despite the CR ~12-15 encounters in the tower. So it's not all that safe there either. It's trapped too...

The plan is that by the time the Shades show up, I will just wish them away to... maybe Carceri. Or whatever. By that time, having gained power using the Nether Scrolls and wished myself into a LeShay, I'll have 101 levels under my belt, worst case scenario 91, and I'll probably have introduced myself to the locals by then anyway.

The tree is in the Solarium, and the room isn't trapped. Things are looking up for me in this world!




As for cleric of Mystra, being a cleric of a goddess (especially a high level one) i'd assume that said lady is going to want you to do stuff for her. Plot-level stuff, most likely.

Refusing and retiring somewhere is likely to end up with your cleric powers revoked, because Mystra is your DM now in that regard. And if you refuse the railroad then no divine magic for you!:smalltongue:

Well, I did have an alternate plan, but even if I do retire, I'd be immortal. I'm sure I could be convinced to come out of retirement from time to time, if only to stave off 4th and 5th edition and so on to keep my powers relevant.

Plus, even just existing as a cleric of Mystra in another crystal sphere would enable her to exist there as well, out of reach of the rather smothering Ao. So many other gods get to do it, why not the best?



Harassing the Chosen of Mystra is likely to get you Baleful Polymorph'd. Or Disintegrated, as the case may be. Or cut off from the Weave if you're really annoying, because that's also a thing that can happen.

They're not bad sorts. I'd tell them about how I got there, then I'd let them know all about Cyric's plans, the Shadovar, the Spellplague... They'd probably just drop me off somewhere. Maybe with a consolation prize of being turned into an elf or something!

I love this thread. It's where my thoughts go all the time!

[idesofmarch]

If I woke up in Faerun, realistically I'd be a Commoner 1, or if I'm lucky an Expert 1 to reflect my education. Either way, I'd like to be a Tier 1 caster, ideally a Wizard, which means my first goal should be to exploit my meta knowledge to gain XP with minimal risk. I'd like to do this without gaining the attention of the powers that be.

I'm open to suggestions.

[Zanos]

Harassing the Chosen of Mystra is likely to get you Baleful Polymorph'd. Or Disintegrated, as the case may be. Or cut off from the Weave if you're really annoying, because that's also a thing that can happen.
While technically possible I'm pretty sure Mystra gets slapped around by Ao for doing this, since her job is to actively promote magic use in the realms even if it's being used against her personal interests. Larloch and Szass Tam are often in conflict with the chosen but Mystra has never cut them off.

I think she can only cut people off and get away with it if they're actively threatening the integrity of the Weave.

[unseenmage]

I jokingly asked my wife what her answer to this thread's conundrum would be.
She's a Faerun newbie so she had no ideas.

Does make me want to write/read a short story about the friends and family of Playgrounder-type-folk getting sent to Faerun in our stead.

How many of our loved ones could survive a D&D-verse just on what they've absorbed from us?

Not including loved ones who are also Playgrounders or the equivalent of course.

[nintendoh]

I am both surprised and impressed no one mentioned the book of erotic fiction.

[Coidzor]

I am both surprised and impressed no one mentioned the book of erotic fiction.

Why would we have? To exploit Metaphysical Spellshaper?

To make sure we have Half-Celestial or Half-Fiend kids? :smallconfused:

[Endarire]

I ask someone to GM this.

Assuming I can, I arrive on the border between Thay and Halruaa. I'm an Elan Druid1 who goes Beholder Mage, Ultimate Magus, then Planar Shepherd (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9971.0).

Also, Tippyverse somehow.

[Vizzerdrix]

How many of our loved ones could survive a D&D-verse just on what they've absorbed from us?
Not including loved ones who are also Playgrounders or the equivalent of course.
In my case, none. Ive always kept my family out of my hobbies.


I am both surprised and impressed no one mentioned the book of erotic fiction.

I didnt mention the book, but I made my intentions known in post #2.

[sleepyphoenixx]

While technically possible I'm pretty sure Mystra gets slapped around by Ao for doing this, since her job is to actively promote magic use in the realms even if it's being used against her personal interests. Larloch and Szass Tam are often in conflict with the chosen but Mystra has never cut them off.

I think she can only cut people off and get away with it if they're actively threatening the integrity of the Weave.

Not by Mystra herself, but any spellcaster capable of casting Greater Bestow Curse can do it. It's one of the alternative curses in BoVD

[CIDE]

If you use Teleport Through Time and run into yourself, you immediately go into a mindless rage (no save) and try to kill yourself.

As already mentioned easy to avoid. I could also act by proxy with a cohort. Or get myself the ability of the time Dragon to time travel instead which lacks that that drawback. Or just leave these items for myself to find. Including the thought bottle.



I wouldn't try to be a God or anything though. I'd be trying to help the world grow. Improve quality of life and stuff like that. Maybe not tippyverse but that's not a bad start.

[nintendoh]

I didnt mention the book, but I made my intentions known in post #2.

So you did. I think a halfling would make a great girlfriend myself.

[Vizzerdrix]

So you did. I think a halfling would make a great girlfriend myself.
Ill be willing to have a go with just about anything that isnt immediately fatal, but Ill be honest and admit that a strong dwarf or orc women is where I would devote my intentions first :smallredface:

[Calthropstu]

This answer beats all of yours:
I go back to sleep. Clearly this is a dream, and I will wake up in my bed.

[Dagroth]

So you did. I think a halfling would make a great girlfriend myself.


Ill be willing to have a go with just about anything that isnt immediately fatal, but Ill be honest and admit that a strong dwarf or orc women is where I would devote my intentions first :smallredface:

I'll be perfectly honest... this is why I wanted to be a Chameleon (race). If I can't get that, I want a Ring that gives unlimited duration Alter Self. Just take it off and put it back on when you want to be someone else!

[Mechalich]

If you were to materialize in Faerun from a location outside of the known multiverse I suspect that would lead to an immediate, and likely extremely short, meeting with Ao, who presumably either 1. hurls you back where you came from or, if that is impossible 2. annihilates all aspects of your existence utterly for daring to add an unacceptable unknown variable to his grand experiment.

[RolkFlameraven]

One very important question I must ask before I can give you any kind of answer to this question, and I must say I'm a bit shocked it hasn't been asked before now, unless I missed it.

Just what DR are we talking about here? Because the year REALLY means something sometimes. I mean there are times where I would love to live in one city and others where that same city gets blow right off the map.

So yeah, any real date, or one of our choosing?

[Coidzor]

If you were to materialize in Faerun from a location outside of the known multiverse I suspect that would lead to an immediate, and likely extremely short, meeting with Ao, who presumably either 1. hurls you back where you came from or, if that is impossible 2. annihilates all aspects of your existence utterly for daring to add an unacceptable unknown variable to his grand experiment.

The Mulan are the descendants of ancient Egyptians, Mesopotamians, and Arabs that were kidnapped from Earth in the distant past of Faerun.

Ao knows what a person from Earth is. After all, he works for some.

[Zanos]

The Mulan are the descendants of ancient Egyptians, Mesopotamians, and Arabs that were kidnapped from Earth in the distant past of Faerun.

Ao knows what a person from Earth is. After all, he works for some.
Even if he didn't, he'd probably just shrug at someone from another crystal sphere popping in and generally do what he always does: ignore it unless it's an immediate problem.

[Mechalich]

The Mulan are the descendants of ancient Egyptians, Mesopotamians, and Arabs that were kidnapped from Earth in the distant past of Faerun.

Ao knows what a person from Earth is. After all, he works for some.

Sigh. No, the Mulan are people kidnapped from a place called Earth that happens to exist within the D&D multiverse on some uncharted crystal sphere and bears a bizarre similarity to the real world. That is not the same as the Earth in this universe that we are actually living on and which shares no fundamental physical properties with that one.

We live in a universe where the fundamental particles organize themselves into about 100 natural elements of which all substances are made and 4 fundamental energetic processes. The residents of Faerun live in a universe with 4 and 2 respectively. In fact, given the variances in fundamental physics it is highly likely that any matter transported from this universe to that one would either disintegrate into fundamental particles because the molecular bonds sustaining it no longer held or detonate explosively as matter was spontaneously converted into energy.

Now, if the actual question of this thread is: 'what do you do if a copy of yourself that preserves your complete mental state but materially obeys D&D physics wakes up in Faerun?' then there's actually something to talk about. However, the role of Ao is still incredibly relevant because D&D physics do not produce Faerun without an immense level of active intervention by an outside agent stopping the optimization shenanigans we all know are possible. Functionally, once you end up in Faerun, Ao is your DM, and all evidence suggests he takes a very active role in terms of ability and combination permissibility (and also that he plays favorites pretty hardcore).

[Quertus]

Now, if the actual question of this thread is: 'what do you do if a copy of yourself that preserves your complete mental state but materially obeys D&D physics wakes up in Faerun?' then there's actually something to talk about. However, the role of Ao is still incredibly relevant because D&D physics do not produce Faerun without an immense level of active intervention by an outside agent stopping the optimization shenanigans we all know are possible. Functionally, once you end up in Faerun, Ao is your DM, and all evidence suggests he takes a very active role in terms of ability and combination permissibility (and also that he plays favorites pretty hardcore).

As my goal is to get off world before 4e hits, I doubt he'll get too smite-happy. :smalltongue:

[Rhyltran]

I start as a Sorcerer and take up the job as exterminator. Given swarm rules I begin killing Ant hills, bee hives, etc. I shoot through the early levels and am already in position to make myself powerful. I get a kissed by the ages enchanted item and focus on building my wealth.

[Hecuba]

I would try to learn magic because I would need it in order to GTF out of Abeir-Toril. Yes, peasant nº13456 won't be targeted by gods, liches, the Zhentarim, the Red Wizards or by Elminster, but he will be eaten by some random Gnoll or Ghoul or die when the next Spellplague happens...

Plane Shift is 7th level for Wizards, but I'm sure there is some strick that would allow me to cut corners and reach Nectar of Life, The Eight Happinesses or Goldfire before that...

This is by far the best reason to go adventuring that I have seen presented thus far. Still, I'd much rather have you go and report back when you get enough details to indicate what kind of hoops we have to jump through to get to a relatively non-deadly world like Never-Neverland, Equestria, Earth, or whatever universe the Culture is in.

Heck, that might be enough of an incentive to aim for wizard or artificer + master alchemist: it would be a bit harder to remain innocuous, but I could bribe you for escape information lot with all sorts of Potions to help treat your inevitable PTSD (under the presumption that it doesn't qualify as "insanity" to be cured by heal). Have problems sleeping? Have a potion of Hiss of Sleep. Flying off the handle when you are stressed? Potions of suggestion are available in various flavors: I suggest you envision yourself on perfectly safe tranquil beach, or I suggest you excuse yourself from the room before you loose your temper and yell at the Simbul, or I suggest you take deep calming breaths.

[Sordahon]

That's some great tought's out there, but what would happen if you were in the dark, without super lore knowledge of world and waking up in forest with a dirt village being few km away, you would need to succesfully look for tracks of hunters who hunt animals there, survive multiple encounters, night in forest, and even if you found village which pointed you to nearest town, that town was part of kingdom you never heard about, but had sufficient logistics aka inn with bounties wall, armory, blacksmith, alchemist, healer, magic shop, and some below average academy for kids with magic aspirations or talent, or you could really just go in wrong direction and die 100 meters along the way to some goblin scavenger.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Heck, that might be enough of an incentive to aim for wizard or artificer + master alchemist: it would be a bit harder to remain innocuous, but I could bribe you for escape information lot with all sorts of Potions to help treat your inevitable PTSD (under the presumption that it doesn't qualify as "insanity" to be cured by heal). Have problems sleeping? Have a potion of Hiss of Sleep. Flying off the handle when you are stressed? Potions of suggestion are available in various flavors: I suggest you envision yourself on perfectly safe tranquil beach, or I suggest you excuse yourself from the room before you loose your temper and yell at the Simbul, or I suggest you take deep calming breaths.

Not a bad plan if you're not the only one stuck there, but it won't help you out if you're stuck there alone with all the loonies who don't want to leave.
And you don't have to outright leave the setting to be reasonably safe. One of the good-aligned outer planes should at least be a reasonable stop gap, at least for escaping the spellplague.

Also one more reason not to be a gish or, god(s) forbid, a mundane martial.
I'm sure i'll see enough blood & gore to last me a lifetime even without swording people in the face up close and personal. Or fireballing them.
Better to stick to nice, clean spells like Flesh to Stone and Charm Monster instead. Or summoning. Summoning is good.

[Vizzerdrix]

That's some great tought's out there, but what would happen if you were in the dark, without super lore knowledge of world and waking up in forest with a dirt village being few km away, you would need to succesfully look for tracks of hunters who hunt animals there, survive multiple encounters, night in forest, and even if you found village which pointed you to nearest town, that town was part of kingdom you never heard about, but had sufficient logistics aka inn with bounties wall, armory, blacksmith, alchemist, healer, magic shop, and some below average academy for kids with magic aspirations or talent, or you could really just go in wrong direction and die 100 meters along the way to some goblin scavenger.

A community of any size will have hunters, sheaperds, loggers, herbalists, and enough other forest related activities that you should either stumble onto a path or people, or someone will notice your footprints and investagate. If not, you should notice smoke from charcoal camps, settlements, or any of the above mentioned people. Also from up a tree, fields are quite noticeable at long distances.
Dying in the wild is only as easy as you let it be. Heck, you can go to youtube right now and learn the basics of bushcraft and first aid. Not perfect, but at least it is a start.

[sleepyphoenixx]

A community of any size will have hunters, sheaperds, loggers, herbalists, and enough other forest related activities that you should either stumble onto a path or people, or someone will notice your footprints and investagate. If not, you should notice smoke from charcoal camps, settlements, or any of the above mentioned people. Also from up a tree, fields are quite noticeable at long distances.
Dying in the wild is only as easy as you let it be. Heck, you can go to youtube right now and learn the basics of bushcraft and first aid. Not perfect, but at least it is a start.

You've never been in a real forest, have you?
Not one of those small "i can cross this in 30 minutes" forests with marked paths that people like to go hiking in, but a real "there's miles upon miles of nothing but trees and animals here" forest.

Paths? Paths require relatively regular movement always on the same ground, which doesn't happen with solitary hunters. And even then they'll be overgrown pretty fast.
The most you'll find (maybe) is a trail, assuming you know enough woodcraft to recognize one. Because you can stand less than 10ft from a trail and not recognize it if there's enough plant life around.
Climbing up a tree in the middle of a forest only lets you see more trees unless one is significantly higher than the surrounding ones. As in, high enough that a part that will carry you is still significantly higher than the surrounding trees.
And looking for smoke is pretty damn hard if the only sky you see (sometimes) is "right above you". You're certainly not seeing the horizon.

It's really pretty easy to get lost or turned around in a real forest. You can't see very far and sound doesn't carry very far either.
Your best bet really would be to smell smoke, but that assumes a favorable wind direction and you having a sensitive enough nose to notice. And even then you might still stumble onto a goblin camp instead if it's FR. :smalltongue:

[Vizzerdrix]

You've never been in a real forest, have you? :

I live in Maine. I see more deep woods in a month than most see in a year. most of what I mentioned is old woodsmen tricks from way, way back. Things loggers and trappers would look for in emergencies.

[Lt.Col.Problem]

Find a town and promptly get killed by a housecat.

[Hecuba]

That's some great tought's out there, but what would happen if you were in the dark, without super lore knowledge of world and waking up in forest with a dirt village being few km away, you would need to succesfully look for tracks of hunters who hunt animals there, survive multiple encounters, night in forest, and even if you found village which pointed you to nearest town, that town was part of kingdom you never heard about, but had sufficient logistics aka inn with bounties wall, armory, blacksmith, alchemist, healer, magic shop, and some below average academy for kids with magic aspirations or talent, or you could really just go in wrong direction and die 100 meters along the way to some goblin scavenger.

I despise the outdoors, but me tagging along with my father on his wilderness survival binges has been about the only way that we've been able to bond over anything - ever, at all. I learned how to set a primitive dead-fall when I was 14, and I count it as a good year when the "camping week" involves gutting fish and not butchering a deer in the back-country. (He's getting old now, so thankfully the good years have been increasing in frequency).

I think I'll be fine as long as the wilderness I land in is level-appropriate.


Paths? Paths require relatively regular movement always on the same ground, which doesn't happen with solitary hunters. And even then they'll be overgrown pretty fast.
The most you'll find (maybe) is a trail, assuming you know enough woodcraft to recognize one. Because you can stand less than 10ft from a trail and not recognize it if there's enough plant life around.
They are clearly assuming some degree of civilization nearby - thus the reference to charcoal. And this depends heavily on the kind of forest in question. For example, in much of the the Florida scrub it's actually fairly easy to find a trail: not much bigger than a rabbit can move through underbrush that thick and not leave one unless they work really hard at it. That said, it might end up being a bear trail (which brings other problems), but you can find it.


Climbing up a tree in the middle of a forest only lets you see more trees unless one is significantly higher than the surrounding ones. As in, high enough that a part that will carry you is still significantly higher than the surrounding trees.
And looking for smoke is pretty damn hard if the only sky you see (sometimes) is "right above you". You're certainly not seeing the horizon.

The difference of opinion here is likely less about size of the forest or height of the trees, but uniformity of the canopy and the kind of trees in question. In North America, Vizzerdrix's advise is actually quite good for: Northeastern hardwood forests, oak-predominating portions of the Mississippi basin and the Great Smokies, and areas of the Florida and Louisiana where Gum and/or Mangrove predominate over pine. In such areas, the canopies are relatively uniform, and the difference between that tallest trees and the trees you can actually climb without getting yourself killed is relatively minimal. That means you can generally climb a tree and use it to get a general lay of the land - enough to find clearings if there are any, or to spot a river or similar.

For the pine scrub that predominates most of the rest of the forests in the US, it works less well. The shorter lifespan of Pine means that there is a bigger difference in height from the oldest trees to the youngest, leading to a canopy where you more or less have to climb the highest tree and where it is less clear if there actually is a clearing or just an area with a lower canopy. Most tall pine also tends to be harder to climb without tools, because there are relatively fewer branches that can bear human weight.
If you're also dealing with significant elevation changes (slopes, mountains, etc), it can still work in such forests.


It's really pretty easy to get lost or turned around in a real forest. You can't see very far and sound doesn't carry very far either.
Your best bet really would be to smell smoke, but that assumes a favorable wind direction and you having a sensitive enough nose to notice. And even then you might still stumble onto a goblin camp instead if it's FR. :smalltongue: If you either can see above the treeline or don't mind leaving a clearly marked trail, relative orienteering isn't hard so much as it is slow. If you can keep it up long enough to establish sunrise and sunset, you should be good.

Presuming, of course, there is some form of civilization somewhere nearby which you can find traces of and make your way to. If you wake up in one of the more remote portion of the Jungles of Chult, you're probably screwed.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The difference of opinion here is likely less about size of the forest or height of the trees, but uniformity of the canopy and the kind of trees in question. In North America, Vizzerdrix's advise is actually quite good for
Ah well, that's probably it. I'm from Europe, and the advice wouldn't work all that well for some of the forests i've been in. Different places, different forests i guess.


If you either can see above the treeline or don't mind leaving a clearly marked trail, relative orienteering isn't hard so much as it is slow. If you can keep it up long enough to establish sunrise and sunset, you should be good.
It's actually fairly hard to even see the sun clearly in the forests i'm talking about unless it's winter. You can tell that it's getting lighter or darker, but unless you're climbing a tree on a steep slope or find a reasonably-sized clearing you won't even get to pinpoint east or west with any degree of accuracy.
So it's fairly easy to spend your time walking in circles because you lack any kind of reference at all beyond 30-60ft. Just green everywhere. You can mark a trail to avoid backtracking, but you still won't know what direction you're actually going in.
It's pretty cool, but there's a reason for the warning signs not to leave the marked trails.


Presuming, of course, there is some form of civilization somewhere nearby which you can find traces of and make your way to. If you wake up in one of the more remote portion of the Jungles of Chult, you're probably screwed.
I think that's less the lack of civilization and more the dinosaurs and cannibal-goblins. Or the poisonous animals and insects (who also carry fun diseases).
I mean, i could probably survive in a (middle-european-like) forest as long as there's eatable stuff i can recognize to find (so not in winter, please), and i know how to build a shelter and all that stuff.
So i'm not completely incapable of nature survival, at least in a familiar climate. Maybe i'll find my inner druid?
But i'd rather not take my chances with those. No jungles for me, please.

[logic_error]

Go back to sleep until I *really* wake up. But on a less serious note, become a Cleric. It's the fastest way to get into Tier one and has the best survivability of all the primary casters. All you have to do is to have a real faith in your deity and his symbol to cast spells with. Probably go with Pelor equivalent and bash that undead on the conk until I level up fast. Take domains like Sun + whatever gives extra turning and on to the crusade we go.

[Coidzor]

This is by far the best reason to go adventuring that I have seen presented thus far. Still, I'd much rather have you go and report back when you get enough details to indicate what kind of hoops we have to jump through to get to a relatively non-deadly world like Never-Neverland, Equestria, Earth, or whatever universe the Culture is in.

:smallconfused: That's honestly not much better than dying and being made into a petitioner of one of the relatively nice gods after what they'd do to you from what I recall.

I could certainly do without being eaten by either Elysium or The Culture if I've already been through the unpleasantness of being ripped out of my proper universe, thrust into Faerun, and then had to claw my way up for the power to get out of there before Szass Tam noticed me or some Yuan-Ti decided to re-enact I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream on my ass.


Heck, that might be enough of an incentive to aim for wizard or artificer + master alchemist: it would be a bit harder to remain innocuous, but I could bribe you for escape information lot with all sorts of Potions to help treat your inevitable PTSD (under the presumption that it doesn't qualify as "insanity" to be cured by heal). Have problems sleeping? Have a potion of Hiss of Sleep. Flying off the handle when you are stressed? Potions of suggestion are available in various flavors: I suggest you envision yourself on perfectly safe tranquil beach, or I suggest you excuse yourself from the room before you loose your temper and yell at the Simbul, or I suggest you take deep calming breaths.

That just sounds like a great way to end up in thrall to someone.

[Clistenes]

I feel disappointed that none of the optimizers in the forum has proposed any trick for early adquisition of Plane Shift...

I guess I would just beg some of the high-ups in Silverymoon to send me to Nectar of Life...

[Honest Tiefling]

Go back to sleep until I *really* wake up. But on a less serious note, become a Cleric. It's the fastest way to get into Tier one and has the best survivability of all the primary casters. All you have to do is to have a real faith in your deity and his symbol to cast spells with. Probably go with Pelor equivalent and bash that undead on the conk until I level up fast. Take domains like Sun + whatever gives extra turning and on to the crusade we go.

I'd double down on this, but not go for Mystra, given that she's basically a comic book hero with how often she's died and come back. The Pelor equivalent is Lathander, which I personally wouldn't go for, given how many nasty evil gods there are. I wonder if I'd gain experience if I was a cleric of Oghma by reading books, since I assume Faerun as a real place does not run on crazy DnD logic where house cats can routinely kill people. Oghma has the annoying tenet of not killing songsters, but if I'm holed up in a library maybe that won't be such an issue. Maybe Gond is a better choice, since he never gets caught up in the crazy.


I feel disappointed that none of the optimizers in the forum has proposed any trick for early adquisition of Plane Shift...

Probably banging one of the plot-favored NPCs is the best way to accomplish this. The issue with this plan is that being far, far, far away from any sort of plot or favorite NPC of the realms. Bad stuff always happens to them for drama. When's the last time you heard of something bad happening to Estagund, huh? The Lantan plan isn't bad idea, either, especially if you have some knowledge to trade.

[Clistenes]

Probably banging one of the plot-favored NPCs is the best way to accomplish this. The issue with this plan is that being far, far, far away from any sort of plot or favorite NPC of the realms. Bad stuff always happens to them for drama. When's the last time you heard of something bad happening to Estagund, huh? The Lantan plan isn't bad idea, either, especially if you have some knowledge to trade.

Not far away enough... I want out of Abeir-Toril, asap.

Well, I could always try to ask Malchor Harpell to planeshift me... He would have no reason to deny me, since he is NG, it would cost him nothing and I don't belong in Abeir-Toril, anyways... Also, the Harpells are safer than the Chosen, less "interesting" stuff happening to them...

Another choice would be Cadderly, still safer than Alustriel. He is in less books...

But I wouldn't bang any of them!

[Deophaun]

We live in a universe where the fundamental particles organize themselves into about 100 natural elements of which all substances are made and 4 fundamental energetic processes. The residents of Faerun live in a universe with 4 and 2 respectively. In fact, given the variances in fundamental physics it is highly likely that any matter transported from this universe to that one would either disintegrate into fundamental particles because the molecular bonds sustaining it no longer held or detonate explosively as matter was spontaneously converted into energy.
Or, alternatively, it turns out that our being represents a lower energy state, which our surroundings nucleate on to immediately drop to, and then the surroundings of those surroundings immediately drop to that, and so on and so-forth.

So, upon our arrival in Faerun, we destroy it. Utterly. Gods and all.

[Coidzor]

I guess I would just beg some of the high-ups in Silverymoon to send me to Nectar of Life...

A Spokane Valley, Washington area Coffee Shoppe? :smallconfused:

[atemu1234]

I'd hope to be somewhere where I could learn magic. Maybe be a spellthief. i like being human, and quite frankly, with the right gods/goddesses, I'd probably wind up in a cushy afterlife. Not a bad retirement plan.

[Kelb_Panthera]

In faerun? Die horribly in a conflict between a couple of high-level wizards or gods. (Same thing, amirite? :smalltongue:)

[WhatThePhysics]

I choose to wake up in Elminster Aumar's residence, in Suzail, Cormyr. If I get to speak with him, I say the following: "Sup dude. Not sure how I got here, but I'm from the same plane as your friend Ed Greenwood. If you don't mind, could you cast Gate to send me back home? I'd really appreciate it."

[Clistenes]

A Spokane Valley, Washington area Coffee Shoppe? :smallconfused:

A divine realm in Mount Celestia (in Lunia, the first layer). A place where I could safely learn magic...

[logic_error]

I'd double down on this, but not go for Mystra, given that she's basically a comic book hero with how often she's died and come back. The Pelor equivalent is Lathander, which I personally wouldn't go for, given how many nasty evil gods there are. I wonder if I'd gain experience if I was a cleric of Oghma by reading books since I assume Faerun as a real place does not run on crazy DnD logic where house cats can routinely kill people. Oghma has the annoying tenet of not killing songsters, but if I'm holed up in a library maybe that won't be such an issue. Maybe Gond is a better choice since he never gets caught up in the crazy.






Yeah. Never Mystara. That is the biggest error a Cleric can do. That is why I also decided against spellcasters of the arcane type too. Divine magic has "failed" exactly once and even then it was pretty epic. About being safe, that is where I disagree. Being safe in D&D is the fastest way of not leveling up and dying at the hands (claws?) of dire rats.

[Calthropstu]

For all the people talking about housecats being able to kill people, in a land where there are gods for pretty much everything, I could totally see a god enhancing the claws of a house cat to be able to do lethal damage.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'd double down on this, but not go for Mystra, given that she's basically a comic book hero with how often she's died and come back. The Pelor equivalent is Lathander, which I personally wouldn't go for, given how many nasty evil gods there are. I wonder if I'd gain experience if I was a cleric of Oghma by reading books, since I assume Faerun as a real place does not run on crazy DnD logic where house cats can routinely kill people. Oghma has the annoying tenet of not killing songsters, but if I'm holed up in a library maybe that won't be such an issue. Maybe Gond is a better choice, since he never gets caught up in the crazy.
Getting involved with most of the gods is a recipe for conflict.
If you're a cleric you're trying to get pretty strong in your quest to GTFO.
That requires earning your deities favor, so you're not only the first option for any quest your church has, you're volunteering.
Because you have to go on these (presumably dangerous) missions to get what you want.
Not that refusing a mission by your church would be an option anyway (or at least not often) because getting kicked out will lead to losing your casting.

I mean, Mystra is probably one of the worst as far as good gods go, but all of them have enemies.
You might get some peace as a cleric of Eldath, but i imagine that job doesn't exactly come with many options to level up.

[logic_error]

Getting involved with most of the gods is a recipe for conflict.
If you're a cleric you're trying to get pretty strong in your quest to GTFO.
That requires earning your deities favor, so you're not only the first option for any quest your church has, you're volunteering.
Because you have to go on these (presumably dangerous) missions to get what you want.
Not that refusing a mission by your church would be an option anyway (or at least not often) because getting kicked out will lead to losing your casting.

I mean, Mystra is probably one of the worst as far as good gods go, but all of them have enemies.
You might get some peace as a cleric of Eldath, but i imagine that job doesn't exactly come with many options to level up.

Which is why going undead hunting is the fastest way out there to level up. There are a ton of options for clerics that make them the ultimate Undead Hunters. Heck, even a soulknife can pull it off.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Which is why going undead hunting is the fastest way out there to level up. There are a ton of options for clerics that make them the ultimate Undead Hunters. Heck, even a soulknife can pull it off.

Leaving aside the psychological effects of hunting the living dead (especially for someone from a first world country on our earth), you won't have a DM making sure the enemies you're facing are level-appropriate.
So you have as good a chance of fighting some humanoid zombies as running your low-level ass into a Dread Wraith. Just running into a group of Ghouls and failing a single save is already enough to die.

So it sounds like a great way to court a gruesome death, if you're lucky. If you're unlucky it ends up being a way to becoming some kind of undead as well.
Personally i'd rather take a little longer before choosing undead hunting as the way to level up. Even if you're risk-friendly, there's other ways with similar efficiency that have less terrible penalties for failing.

[logic_error]

Leaving aside the psychological effects of hunting the living dead (especially for someone from a first world country on our earth), you won't have a DM making sure the enemies you're facing are level-appropriate.
So you have as good a chance of fighting some humanoid zombies as running your low-level ass into a Dread Wraith. Just running into a group of Ghouls and failing a single save is already enough to die.

So it sounds like a great way to court a gruesome death, if you're lucky. If you're unlucky it ends up being a way to becoming some kind of undead as well.
Personally i'd rather take a little longer before choosing undead hunting as the way to level up. Even if you're risk-friendly, there's other ways with similar efficiency that have less terrible penalties for failing.

I agree. Buy you gotta take chances to get rewards. Also, I suspect you would use that Wisdom high stat to determine which encounters you can attempt and join a party and somesuch.

[Clistenes]

Leaving aside the psychological effects of hunting the living dead (especially for someone from a first world country on our earth), you won't have a DM making sure the enemies you're facing are level-appropriate.
So you have as good a chance of fighting some humanoid zombies as running your low-level ass into a Dread Wraith. Just running into a group of Ghouls and failing a single save is already enough to die.

So it sounds like a great way to court a gruesome death, if you're lucky. If you're unlucky it ends up being a way to becoming some kind of undead as well.
Personally i'd rather take a little longer before choosing undead hunting as the way to level up. Even if you're risk-friendly, there's other ways with similar efficiency that have less terrible penalties for failing.

About xp farming... I know you don't get xp from critters summoned by an enemy (they are considered part of that enemy's resources/powers), but, in 3.5 edition, can you get xp from getting a friend to summon monsters, elementals and fiends for you, and having them attack you? What about Animated Objects or Skeletons raised with Animate Dead?

And what about 5th edition? Is there a explicit rule about fighting summoned critters?

Or... is there any place were it is easy to find and hunt Stirges, Monstrous Centipedes, Spiders and Scorpions, Darkmantles, Ankhengs, Carrion Crawlers, Owlbears, Dire Animals, Oozes, Gibbering Mouthers, Bulettes, Chimeras, Remohazes, Hydras, Gorgons, Purple Worms, Dinosaurs...etc.? Seeking places were unintelligent oozes, vermin, animals and magical beasts of the appropiante level abound seem a relatively safe (when compared to fighting intelligent creatures) way to get combat xp...

[sleepyphoenixx]

About xp farming... I know you don't get xp from critters summoned by an enemy (they are considered part of that enemy's resources/powers), but, in 3.5 edition, can you get xp from getting a friend to summon monsters, elementals and fiends for you, and having them attack you? What about Animated Objects or Skeletons raised with Animate Dead?

And what about 5th edition? Is there a explicit rule about fighting summoned critters?

Or... is there any place were it is easy to find and hunt Stirges, Monstrous Centipedes, Spiders and Scorpions, Darkmantles, Ankhengs, Carrion Crawlers, Owlbears, Dire Animals, Oozes, Gibbering Mouthers, Bulettes, Chimeras, Remohazes, Hydras, Gorgons, Purple Worms, Dinosaurs...etc.? Seeking places were unintelligent oozes, vermin, animals and magical beasts of the appropiante level abound seem a relatively safe (when compared to fighting intelligent creatures) way to get combat xp...

You don't get any more XP for defeating a summon than you get for defeating a Fireball. I don't know about 5th edition, but i doubt it.
As for Animate Dead, the problem with that one is that you have to find creatures to animate. And zombies/skeletons have terrible CR for their HD, so you have to fight increasingly dangerous monsters just to get minimal XP from their animated remains.
Animate Objects are similar, they have really low CR so you won't level very far.

The problem with trying to limit your targets to "easy" monsters is that the FR world is dangerous. There are no fixed "spawn points", and any area that is relatively safe is likely to attract attention from other intelligent beings too.
You can also always stumble into something you haven't planned for, be it a band of orc bandits or just some followers of an evil god trying to lay low in your - supposedly abandoned - farming spot.

[logic_error]

****! you are right. D&D is basically a bad MMO.

[Rhyltran]

****! you are right. D&D is basically a bad MMO.

Check out swarm rules and ant swarms. The secret is to annihilate ant colonies. That is the path to power. ;)

[logic_error]

:elan:

Made me laugh. So the ant-eater is level 100 by now?
BEWARE THE DIRE LEGENDARY ANTEATER. HE CAN CAST LEVEL 10 SPELLS ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

[Zanos]

Telling ya'll, buy bags full of rats. Exterminator is the way to go for mad XP.

[CharonsHelper]

As for XP hunting - I'd go hunt rats. Normal rats could get me to level 3-4 pretty easily. (Risk my life fighting orcs, or hunt down 27 rats over the course of a few days to hit level 2? Hmmm...) [semi-ninja'd]

At tabletop it's boring - largely because it's safe. I'll take boring & safe every time when it's my life on the line.

Heck - if I hit level 3-4 as a caster I could have a pretty decent living just casting spells for cash, much less if you make gear. For XP (If 3.5 where making items costs XP) I'd just buy various animals to kill for the XP. (And then sell to a butcher. I'm not wasteful!)

Plus - once you get a few levels under your belt your survival rate would go way up! I'd want to hit level 3 even if I never go adventuring etc. If the world is anything like games I've played, a fight might break out in the street, and I'd like that extra HP to survive being hit by a stray Fireball which they didn't care hit some civilians as they tried to get all of the heroes.

Not to mention all of the various murderous monsters infiltrating cities etc. That murderous doppleganger infiltrating the city? I don't want to be their latest victim. I want to be the wrong guy to start a fight with, where I turn around and nuke them.


:elan:

Made me laugh. So the ant-eater is level 100 by now?
BEWARE THE DIRE LEGENDARY ANTEATER. HE CAN CAST LEVEL 10 SPELLS ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

I don't think that an ant-eater can deal with a true swarm of ants. And individual ants don't have CR.

Leveling off of rats would explain why housecats are so scary!

Of course - the real answer is that NPCs don't level the same way as PCs, but the implication of this thread is that the rules of Faerun would react to you as if you were a PC.

[Potato_Priest]

1. Learn Prestidigitation
2. Start a Restaurant
3. Prosper

[Zanos]

Heck - if I hit level 3-4 as a caster I could have a pretty decent living just casting spells for cash, much less if you make gear. For XP (If 3.5 where making items costs XP) I'd just buy various animals to kill for the XP. (And then sell to a butcher. I'm not wasteful!)
To calibrate this, spell casts retail for 10*CL*SL. So a 1st level wizard sells his 3 cantrips(party entertaining with presdigitation?) and his 2 1st level spells, since I'll assume you have at least 12 intelligence, and makes 35 GP per day. Even assuming that's 3 entire durations of prestidigitation and two, say, identifies, that's only 5 hours of work. He can take a light day and just sell the two 1st level slots and do two hours of work for 20gp.

A night in the highest quality inn with the highest quality food is 2.5gp per day. A trained hireling makes only 3sp per day, so you're already making more than enough to live comfortably by the settings standards and making more than 115 times as much as a skilled worker.

[sleepyphoenixx]

As for XP hunting - I'd go hunt rats. Normal rats could get me to level 3-4 pretty easily. (Risk my life fighting orcs, or hunt down 27 rats over the course of a few days to hit level 2? Hmmm...) [semi-ninja'd]

Again, there is no DM making sure you find only CR-appropriate encounters. Or appropriately-sized encounters for that matter.

If you go into the sewers hunting for rats you might not only catch a disease (that you can't afford to have cured), you could also meet an Otyugh instead.
Even a swarm of Dire Rats is a deadly threat to a 1st level character. Especially considering that they're faster than you and come in packs of 11-20.

[Clistenes]

As for XP hunting - I'd go hunt rats. Normal rats could get me to level 3-4 pretty easily. (Risk my life fighting orcs, or hunt down 27 rats over the course of a few days to hit level 2? Hmmm...) [semi-ninja'd]

At tabletop it's boring - largely because it's safe. I'll take boring & safe every time when it's my life on the line.

Heck - if I hit level 3-4 as a caster I could have a pretty decent living just casting spells for cash, much less if you make gear. For XP (If 3.5 where making items costs XP) I'd just buy various animals to kill for the XP. (And then sell to a butcher. I'm not wasteful!)

Mmmm... If you release the rats in an enclosure and shoot them with a bow or crossbow, it even makes sense as training your aim against moving targets...

In 5th edition you could do the same hunting Bats and Lizards (10 xp each) or Poisonous Snakes (25 xp each).

I guess you could go to Abeir-Toril's version of America's Great Plains or Africa's Savannah and go crazy hunting Bisons/Buffalos (CR 2) and Zebras (CR 1, like Light Horse)... Of course, depending on where you start, traveling there could be a deadly endavour on itself (bandits, monsters, sea monsters...).

[logic_error]

Again, there is no DM making sure you find only CR-appropriate encounters. Or appropriately-sized encounters for that matter.

If you go into the sewers hunting for rats you might not only catch a disease (that you can't afford to have cured), you could also meet an Otyugh instead.
Even a swarm of Dire Rats is a deadly threat to a 1st level character. Especially considering that they're faster than you and come in packs of 11-20.

Easy. Don't go to sewers. BREED rats. There done.

[Zanos]

Or just buy them if you can come up with a money making scheme. I think rats sell for 1cp.

[CharonsHelper]

If you go into the sewers hunting for rats you might not only catch a disease (that you can't afford to have cured), you could also meet an Otyugh instead.
Even a swarm of Dire Rats is a deadly threat to a 1st level character. Especially considering that they're faster than you and come in packs of 11-20.

Who said anything about the sewers?

I was thinking grain warehouses. The owner would be ecstatic for me to go rat hunting in there - and it'd be super easy & safe. Even just using Magic Missile as a wizard I'd hit level 2 in a week or two.

[Clistenes]

Heh... this thread made me think that we probably don't know anything about the most intelligent, wisest characters from Abeir-Toril, Oerth, Krynn...etc. because they have managed to remain unremarkable and undetectable despite reaching level 40 or 50, traveling to the planes and becoming immortal.

I mean, we are probably speaking of a dude who spent years killing rats with magic and crossbows until he was level 4. And by then he probably had found another way to farm xp. And when he hit level 13, he Plane Shifted himself to the Upper Planes and kept doing the same, carefully avoiding the gods' attention, until he was poweful enough to create his own secret, hidden Demiplane...

[logic_error]

Heh... this thread made me think that we probably don't know anything about the most intelligent, wisest characters from Abeir-Toril, Oerth, Krynn...etc. because they have managed to remain unremarkable and undetectable despite reaching level 40 or 50, traveling to the planes and becoming immortal.

I mean, we are probably speaking of a dude who spent years killing rats with magic and crossbows until he was level 4. And by then he probably had found another way to farm xp. And when he hit level 13, he Plane Shifted himself to the Upper Planes and kept doing the same, carefully avoiding the gods' attention, until he was poweful enough to create his own secret, hidden Demiplane...

Now you secretly wonder if they *are* actually gods. Or that is how Gods are made. A lot of patience and starting INT/WIS > 12.

[Zanos]

Heh... this thread made me think that we probably don't know anything about the most intelligent, wisest characters from Abeir-Toril, Oerth, Krynn...etc. because they have managed to remain unremarkable and undetectable despite reaching level 40 or 50, traveling to the planes and becoming immortal.

I mean, we are probably speaking of a dude who spent years killing rats with magic and crossbows until he was level 4. And by then he probably had found another way to farm xp. And when he hit level 13, he Plane Shifted himself to the Upper Planes and kept doing the same, carefully avoiding the gods' attention, until he was poweful enough to create his own secret, hidden Demiplane...
As soon as you hit 21st level without anyone noticing you get a little card inviting you to the poker game with the rest of the club on Tuesdays.

[Dagroth]

As soon as you hit 21st level without anyone noticing you get a little card inviting you to the poker game with the rest of the club on Tuesdays.

Hey! You're not supposed to talk about that!

[darksolitaire]

1. Learn Prestidigitation
2. Start a Restaurant
3. Prosper

4. Make sure that everyone is aware of your policy of not serving adventurers, since having them around is the surest way of getting your joint to burn down.

[Coidzor]

So a Druid level and good Charisma might actually be really good for leveling on the sly.

Especially if non-lethal combats give XP.

Since you can make friends with an animal and then talk it into playfighting with non-lethal damage.

Now if only you had a way to make your animal friend capable of gaining XP and leveling up along with you.


4. Make sure that everyone is aware of your policy of not serving adventurers, since having them around is the surest way of getting your joint to burn down.

OTOH, Banning Adventurers is the surest way to get them to start poking their noses into your business.

[logic_error]

Boxing kangaroos. Australian Druids for the win.

[sleepyphoenixx]

So a Druid level and good Charisma might actually be really good for leveling on the sly.

Especially if non-lethal combats give XP.

Since you can make friends with an animal and then talk it into playfighting with non-lethal damage.

Now if only you had a way to make your animal friend capable of gaining XP and leveling up along with you.
You can just scrap the playfighting part. Overcoming encounters with diplomacy (or Wild Empathy) counts too. So does sneaking or any other way to avoid combat.
There's also lots of other non-combat encounters. Theft might not be a good idea (magic traps hurt), but hiring out as a security consultant could work.

[Gildedragon]

You can just scrap the playfighting part. Overcoming encounters with diplomacy (or Wild Empathy) counts too. So does sneaking or any other way to avoid combat.
There's also lots of other non-combat encounters. Theft might not be a good idea (magic traps hurt), but hiring out as a security consultant could work.

Heck hiring out as a research consultant, pushing optimization/odd-uses of spells, and aiding in spell research

[Vizzerdrix]

Check out swarm rules and ant swarms. The secret is to annihilate ant colonies. That is the path to power. ;)

Hmm... would a tree full of termites provide the same benefit? How about beds full of lice, ticks, and fleas? If so then being a maid is the key to ULTIMATE POWER!!!

Quick everyone! We need to create the ultimate maid/buttler build! :smallbiggrin:

[Clistenes]

You know, in 5th edition xp farming is, technically speaking, ridiculously easy. Once you reach level 5, cast Animate Dead on some skeletons, allow them to become independent, and blast them with Fireball. At level 5 you can do it once everyday and gain 50 xp per day. enough to reach level 6 in five months.

At level 10 you can create 20 skeletons per day. Let say you just create 17 skeletons and cast Fireball three times every day; that's enough to reach level 11 in around two years.

At level 20 you can create 83 skeletons per day. Let say you just create 71 and cast six Fireballs to destroy them. That's still 3550 xp per day, enough to get 1,295,750 xp per year, that is, 43 Epic Boons or Ability Score bonuses or bonus Feats per year...

[Gildedragon]

You know, in 5th edition xp farming is, technically speaking, ridiculously easy. Once you reach level 5, cast Animate Dead on some skeletons, allow them to become independent, and blast them with Fireball. At level 5 you can do it once everyday and gain 50 xp per day. enough to reach level 6 in five months.

At level 10 you can create 20 skeletons per day. Let say you just create 17 skeletons and cast Fireball three times every day; that's enough to reach level 11 in around two years.

At level 20 you can create 83 skeletons per day. Let say you just create 71 and cast six Fireballs to destroy them. That's still 3550 xp per day, enough to get 1,295,750 xp per year, that is, 43 Epic Boons or Ability Score bonuses or bonus Feats per year...

Though one probably gets more XP out of procuring those skeletons early on.
Paladins might look at one funny... Especially when one explains "I'm harvesting skeletons to gain ultimate power"
Their Smite may not hurt one, but the gauntlet sure will

[Honest Tiefling]

Getting involved with most of the gods is a recipe for conflict.
If you're a cleric you're trying to get pretty strong in your quest to GTFO.
That requires earning your deities favor, so you're not only the first option for any quest your church has, you're volunteering.

That's why I'd go for Gond or Oghma, in the hopes that Faerun doesn't work on DnD logic, so helping with bookkeeping/tinkering will level me up. Or perhaps rely on RP EXP? Even if it fails, I'm no where near a favorite NPC and in a nice safe temple that doesn't often get involved in godly conflicts.


For all the people talking about housecats being able to kill people, in a land where there are gods for pretty much everything, I could totally see a god enhancing the claws of a house cat to be able to do lethal damage.

I'm pretty sure that's what a Beast of Bane basically is.

[Clistenes]

Though one probably gets more XP out of procuring those skeletons early on.
Paladins might look at one funny... Especially when one explains "I'm harvesting skeletons to gain ultimate power"
Their Smite may not hurt one, but the gauntlet sure will

Meh. Just use Orc skeletons; go to a Dwarven settlement and buy them as spell components; they probably have a bunch of them buried around since the last time they had a spat...

And Mending is a cantrip. You can fix the broken bones after every time you destroy the skeletons, so you will never ever need more than 83 skeletons (and at level 5 just one will do)

[sleepyphoenixx]

Meh. Just use Orc skeletons; go to a Dwarven settlement and buy them as spell components; they probably have a bunch of them buried around since the last time they had a spat...

And Mending is a cantrip. You can fix the broken bones after every time you destroy the skeletons, so will never ever need more than 83 skeletons (and at level 5 just one will do)

You can't re-animate destroyed skeletons or zombies. The Animate Dead spell explicitly mentions that.

[Dagroth]

Meh. Just use Orc skeletons; go to a Dwarven settlement and buy them as spell components; they probably have a bunch of them buried around since the last time they had a spat...

And Mending is a cantrip. You can fix the broken bones after every time you destroy the skeletons, so will never ever need more than 83 skeletons (and at level 5 just one will do)

I thought that (at least in 3.5) if a skeleton is animated and then "killed", it couldn't be animated again.

[Clistenes]

You can't re-animate destroyed skeletons or zombies. The Animate Dead spell explicitly mentions that.

Not the 5th edition version. They removed that part. :smallbiggrin:

[Rhyltran]

As for XP hunting - I'd go hunt rats. Normal rats could get me to level 3-4 pretty easily. (Risk my life fighting orcs, or hunt down 27 rats over the course of a few days to hit level 2? Hmmm...) [semi-ninja'd]

At tabletop it's boring - largely because it's safe. I'll take boring & safe every time when it's my life on the line.

Heck - if I hit level 3-4 as a caster I could have a pretty decent living just casting spells for cash, much less if you make gear. For XP (If 3.5 where making items costs XP) I'd just buy various animals to kill for the XP. (And then sell to a butcher. I'm not wasteful!)

Plus - once you get a few levels under your belt your survival rate would go way up! I'd want to hit level 3 even if I never go adventuring etc. If the world is anything like games I've played, a fight might break out in the street, and I'd like that extra HP to survive being hit by a stray Fireball which they didn't care hit some civilians as they tried to get all of the heroes.

Not to mention all of the various murderous monsters infiltrating cities etc. That murderous doppleganger infiltrating the city? I don't want to be their latest victim. I want to be the wrong guy to start a fight with, where I turn around and nuke them.



I don't think that an ant-eater can deal with a true swarm of ants. And individual ants don't have CR.

Leveling off of rats would explain why housecats are so scary!

Of course - the real answer is that NPCs don't level the same way as PCs, but the implication of this thread is that the rules of Faerun would react to you as if you were a PC.

While that's true of the ant eater remember. You do get experience when you take an enemy by surprise. Technically poisoning, chemical bombing, or burning out the ants when they don't expect you as an encounter would be a surprise attack. You are also not dealing with individual ants but the entire colony (see swarm.) Assuming this works (and it should) this would be the most efficient way to eliminate the encounter. As army ants are CR4 regular ants or fire ants might be CR2 as a swarm and we're getting that experience solo (not spreading it between party members.)

[WeaselGuy]

I'll jump on this boat. I'm going to make the same number of assumptions as most other people, in that I get to choose at the least my race. Human for skill points and a bonus feat is nice, but too run of the mill.

Race: Half-Elf (Star Elf, if it matters to you. Still no bonuses, but hey, #fluff)
Alignment: CG (gotta be either C or E for Warlock, and we all know just how well playing an evil campaign works for most groups)
Class: Warlock (because who really cares about stats, and #lolresources)
Ability Scores: Derived from the link below, Str: 12, Dex: 15, Con: 11, Int: 16, Wis: 13, Cha: 14
Background: Militia (I do have military experience), gives me Martial Weapon Proficiency to supplement my non-casting repertoire
Location: Aglarond (Some place different, and relatively out of the way. Has a population made up 30% of Half-Elves. Not a bad place to be, overall.) Can make my way to Silverymoon at some point, for obvious reasons.
Game Plan: 2+Int (3)= 5 skill points means Spellcraft and UMD are a must, along with Bluff, Knowledge (The Planes), and Intimidate. With Half Elf, diplomancy leads itself to an option, which I could manage with Human Paragon.
Warlock 1/Half-Elf Paragon 3/Human Paragon 3/Warlock +6/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3
A level of assumption is presented here, in the hopes that I live long enough to multiclass. Attribute bonuses from Paragons would go to Charisma. Basic idea would be to become a courtier, maybe even a court-magician (but not the class). Intent would be to take a few Crafting feats (Wondrous Item and Rod, notably, for Chausable and Scepter, respectively, and maybe Contingent Spell, for obvious reasons), even though I won't have Imbue Item for the really good stuff. Practiced Spellcaster will help my caster level out, and otherwise, I'm pretty open on other feats, as life dictates. Blaster Lock isn't too feat heavy, as long as I don't plan on doing anything super crazy.



According to this page (http://www.easydamus.com/character.html) though, this is my stat sheet. Which also would work for Aglarond. I'd swap out the race to Half-Elf, for reasons, but aside from the PrC issues, it's not a bad way to go. Also ironic, because my 2nd ever D&D character was a Ranger/Sorcerer (back when I had zero idea of how to optimize). Assuming this course of action, I'd go into Aglarondan Griffonrider and finish off with Abjurant Champion. Just enough casting to maintain a decent quality of life, without being a major power player.

I Am A: Neutral Good Human Ranger/Sorcerer (3rd/2nd Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength-12
Dexterity-15
Constitution-11
Intelligence-16
Wisdom-13
Charisma-14
Alignment: Neutral Good A neutral good character does the best that a good person can do. He is devoted to helping others. He works with kings and magistrates but does not feel beholden to them. Neutral good is the best alignment you can be because it means doing what is good without bias for or against order. However, neutral good can be a dangerous alignment when it advances mediocrity by limiting the actions of the truly capable.
Race: Humans are the most adaptable of the common races. Short generations and a penchant for migration and conquest have made them physically diverse as well. Humans are often unorthodox in their dress, sporting unusual hairstyles, fanciful clothes, tattoos, and the like.
Primary Class: Rangers are skilled stalkers and hunters who make their home in the woods. Their martial skill is nearly the equal of the fighter, but they lack the latter's dedication to the craft of fighting. Instead, the ranger focuses his skills and training on a specific enemy a type of creature he bears a vengeful grudge against and hunts above all others. Rangers often accept the role of protector, aiding those who live in or travel through the woods. His skills allow him to move quietly and stick to the shadows, especially in natural settings, and he also has special knowledge of certain types of creatures. Finally, an experienced ranger has such a tie to nature that he can actually draw on natural power to cast divine spells, much as a druid does, and like a druid he is often accompanied by animal companions. A ranger's Wisdom score should be high, as this determines the maximum spell level that he can cast.
Secondary Class: Sorcerers are arcane spellcasters who manipulate magic energy with imagination and talent rather than studious discipline. They have no books, no mentors, no theories just raw power that they direct at will. Sorcerers know fewer spells than wizards do and acquire them more slowly, but they can cast individual spells more often and have no need to prepare their incantations ahead of time. Also unlike wizards, sorcerers cannot specialize in a school of magic. Since sorcerers gain their powers without undergoing the years of rigorous study that wizards go through, they have more time to learn fighting skills and are proficient with simple weapons. Charisma is very important for sorcerers; the higher their value in this ability, the higher the spell level they can cast.

[Bronk]

Farming XP... I think it would be easier to set up a puzzle tournament.

First of all, all the people playing would be overcoming challenges, and would gain XP themselves, maybe even raising in level.

Meanwhile, the person setting up the tournament system would charge for money. His challenge would be to get people interested in puzzles and tricking them into paying for it. His challenge is against everyone playing, so it would rack up more quickly...

[Dagroth]

Huh...

For some reason I got NG 7th level Sorcerer, even though my stat block is:
Strength- 12
Dexterity- 13
Constitution- 13
Intelligence- 16
Wisdom- 17
Charisma- 13

I guess it's because I learn by doing rather than by reading. I trust what I figure out, rather than what a manual tells me.

Obviously it's time for me to multi-class into Wizard and then into Ultimate Magus. :smallbiggrin:

[atemu1234]

Given the opportunity, I'd go for Artificer. Spend my life making magical baubles, sounds appealing to me. I don't need wide grasp of control - just enough to get by.

[Coidzor]

Farming XP... I think it would be easier to set up a puzzle tournament.

First of all, all the people playing would be overcoming challenges, and would gain XP themselves, maybe even raising in level.

Meanwhile, the person setting up the tournament system would charge for money. His challenge would be to get people interested in puzzles and tricking them into paying for it. His challenge is against everyone playing, so it would rack up more quickly...

I think the biggest problem with that is that puzzles are one of those gray areas that depend entirely on player skill and a fiated XP value.

Then again, there'd probably be a relatively straightforward way to make it something like a skill challenge with a DC that would allow one to equate it to a trap for CR and experience assignment? :smallconfused:

[Bronk]

I think the biggest problem with that is that puzzles are one of those gray areas that depend entirely on player skill and a fiated XP value.

Then again, there'd probably be a relatively straightforward way to make it something like a skill challenge with a DC that would allow one to equate it to a trap for CR and experience assignment? :smallconfused:

Oh yes indeed!

You can have either a CR level appropriate exploding word jumble, or perhaps a chess match where the winner gets first choice of weapons in the following gladiatorial match!

[Clistenes]

The thing with the rats is, it kinda work as a simulation of training, if properly roleplayed...

"This is a longspear. It allows you to strike an enemy from beyond the reach of his sword, but it is difficult to hit the gaps in your enemy's armor with it, because said gaps are small, your foe is dodging and blocking, and the long handle is bad for your aim. We are going to train you aim now. I will release fifty rats inside the walled space, and you will kill them all with your longspear..."

"Today we will train your aim with the longbow. You are going to shoot at the rats inside the enclosure..."

Of course, the problem is, it would be boring.

[Quertus]

I thought that (at least in 3.5) if a skeleton is animated and then "killed", it couldn't be animated again.


Not the 5th edition version. They removed that part. :smallbiggrin:

Hmmm... As this is a 3e thread, the 3e version is what's relevant. At least until Toril converts to 4e. :smallyuk:

For us time travelers, IIRC, one could reuse the same skeleton over and over again in earlier editions, simply recasting Animate Dead as needed. :smallcool:

[Clistenes]

Hmmm... As this is a 3e thread, the 3e version is what's relevant. At least until Toril converts to 4e. :smallyuk:

For us time travelers, IIRC, one could reuse the same skeleton over and over again in earlier editions, simply recasting Animate Dead as needed. :smallcool:

Yes, but in the relevant post I wrote: "xp farming would be even easier in 5th edition..."

[Lazymancer]

I feel disappointed that none of the optimizers in the forum has proposed any trick for early adquisition of Plane Shift...
Start as a Wizard. Sell spellbook. Buy Plane Shift from cleric.

Bonus points if you have Spell Mastery (or Illusion Mastery ACF) so as not to be completely useless afterwards.

[Clistenes]

I have checked, and apparently, you can go up to level 7 just killing rats... (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/) (I wasn't sure at what point a 3.5 character should stop getting xp from killing rats by RAW, and I checked...).

And it isn't even that slow... A lvl 6 character can get 713 xp killing a group of 20 rats...

Even if you kill them one by one, you still get 38 xp per rat until you hit level 7...

Taking into account that the most powerful person in our real world is supposed to be level 5 according to many... well, this is crazy.

Not to mention that gives you access to level 4 spells, if you are a Wizard... And by then, you can buy carcasses of dead animals and use Animate Dead to create Skeletons (a cow skeleton is around CR 2) and kill them with Fireball until you reach level 9.

At that point you can Teleport to the savannah and Overland-Fly like crazy Fireballing the fauna and raising the carcasses like skeletons that you destroy in turn. Or just seek dead Elephants and raise the skeletons. And if something you can't manage attacks you, you can Teleport away while your Skeleton bodyguards slow the attacker...

Eventually you hit level 13, learn Plane Shift and laugh while you leave Abeir-Toril...

[sleepyphoenixx]

At that point you can Teleport to the savannah and Overland-Fly like crazy Fireballing the fauna and raising the carcasses like skeletons that you destroy in turn. Or just seek dead Elephants and raise the skeletons. And if something you can't manage attacks you, you can Teleport away while your Skeleton bodyguards slow the attacker...

The rest works, but you're just begging to get murderized by angry druids with this one.

[Coidzor]

Though one probably gets more XP out of procuring those skeletons early on.
Paladins might look at one funny... Especially when one explains "I'm harvesting skeletons to gain ultimate power"
Their Smite may not hurt one, but the gauntlet sure will

On the other hand, since in most cases you can't make any kind of undead out of a corpse that has already been used to make a mindless undead and then destroyed (barring Pathfinder's Necrocrafts), it raises the limit to messing with their bodies from a 3rd or 4th level spell, Animate Dead to the 5th or 6th level spell, Revive Undead.

And it prevents anything more harmful to the soul or the outside world than mindless skeletons or zombies, since Create (Greater) Undead won't be able to make ghouls or juju zombies or wraiths or anything seriously nasty.

Heck, by making skeletons out of corpses, one can get those bones nice and clean for dismantling and distributing into a catacombs after a lot less time than letting the bodies be worm food the old-fashioned way.

A highly persuasive person could probably make some traction with that, provided they could come up with a business model to cut down or recoup the costs of animating the dead and avoided an area too full of zealots.


The rest works, but you're just begging to get murderized by angry druids with this one.

Indeed. The safest way to play it is probably to follow the vultures or a predator that kills a lot of creatures but leaves their skeletons mostly intact and make the carrion left behind into skeletons.

Followed by then using Purify Food and Drink(see if you can trade spellcasting services with a cleric to save costs while crafting an item of it) on the fleshy parts left over in order to make sure that they're completely safe for the animals to eat.

[atemu1234]

I have checked, and apparently, you can go up to level 7 just killing rats... (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/) (I wasn't sure at what point a 3.5 character should stop getting xp from killing rats by RAW, and I checked...).

And it isn't even that slow... A lvl 6 character can get 713 xp killing a group of 20 rats...

Even if you kill them one by one, you still get 38 xp per rat until you hit level 7...

Taking into account that the most powerful person in our real world is supposed to be level 5 according to many... well, this is crazy.

Not to mention that gives you access to level 4 spells, if you are a Wizard... And by then, you can buy carcasses of dead animals and use Animate Dead to create Skeletons (a cow skeleton is around CR 2) and kill them with Fireball until you reach level 9.

At that point you can Teleport to the savannah and Overland-Fly like crazy Fireballing the fauna and raising the carcasses like skeletons that you destroy in turn. Or just seek dead Elephants and raise the skeletons. And if something you can't manage attacks you, you can Teleport away while your Skeleton bodyguards slow the attacker...

Eventually you hit level 13, learn Plane Shift and laugh while you leave Abeir-Toril...

The level you stop getting XP is when you are eight levels higher than it (the assumption being that 2 rats would be ECL 2, 4 ECL 4, 8 ECL 6, 16 ECL 8).

[Clistenes]

The rest works, but you're just begging to get murderized by angry druids with this one.

Fair point. I will stick to casting Animate Dead on dead elephants...

[Hecuba]

Heh... this thread made me think that we probably don't know anything about the most intelligent, wisest characters from Abeir-Toril, Oerth, Krynn...etc. because they have managed to remain unremarkable and undetectable despite reaching level 40 or 50, traveling to the planes and becoming immortal.

I mean, we are probably speaking of a dude who spent years killing rats with magic and crossbows until he was level 4. And by then he probably had found another way to farm xp. And when he hit level 13, he Plane Shifted himself to the Upper Planes and kept doing the same, carefully avoiding the gods' attention, until he was poweful enough to create his own secret, hidden Demiplane...

That reminds me why I prefer artificer for such an endeavor. I should probably go with that if possible, instead of mage-wright.
Trapsmith helps too.

There are nonlethal traps and nonlethal spells. Magical traps get to CR 10, even before you start combining multiple traps.
You can, theoretically, get higher with mechanical/alchemical traps, but the nonlethal options are more limited.

CR 10 gives XP through level 17. After that you simply need to combine multiple non-dependent traps. Though that is at the DM's discretion, so you might have to revert to theoretically lethal mechanical traps or slaughtering CR 11 monsters (and sadly there are only so many fiendish triceratopses available).

Edit: Speaking of which, does anyone else in this scenario want to set up a mutually beneficial leveling arrangement among these lines? We'll have to have some form of trust until we can bind each other with geas or similar to ensure compliance with the non-lethal requirement, but we should be able to accelerate fairly quickly after that point.

[Zanos]

I believe traps give XP even if you set them off. Give someone a stack of resetting traps that aren't quite enough to kill you from full health(even at max rolls), tell them to set up but don't have them tell you where they are, then walk through the room. Heal and repeat until those traps are no longer considered a threat for your level.

This has the disadvantage of being extremely unpleasant as you get peppered with darts and slashed by wall scythes, though.


There are nonlethal traps and nonlethal spells. Magical traps get to CR 10, even before you start combining multiple traps.

CR 10 gives XP through level 17.
To clarify 17 is the last level you'll get XP from those traps, so you can get to 18.

[Clistenes]

I think you can't get xp from triggering the same trap a second time, can you? If so, crafting traps for xp farming may be too time-consuming and expensive...

[Zanos]

I think you can't get xp from triggering the same trap a second time, can you? If so, crafting traps for xp farming may be too time-consuming and expensive...
It should count if you have it moved. Otherwise break it down for parts and craft another one?

[Hecuba]

I believe traps give XP even if you set them off. Give someone a stack of resetting traps that aren't quite enough to kill you from full health(even at max rolls), tell them to set up but don't have them tell you where they are, then walk through the room. Heal and repeat until those traps are no longer considered a threat for your level.

This has the disadvantage of being extremely unpleasant as you get peppered with darts and slashed by wall scythes, though.


To clarify 17 is the last level you'll get XP from those traps, so you can get to 18.

Ehh, if you have to go mechanical, use the large net trap as a base. Completely nonlethal, has an attack and a save. Boost everything to the highest tier (Search DC, Disable Device DC, Attack Bonus, & Save DC), make it hit multiple targets, and add a 1 round onset delay. You're at CR of 13 before you start adding alchemical* items and/or poisons.

If you can afford a ring of feather fall, pit traps are another good option.


*Speaking of alchemical items, what precisely is the level of the spell a Thunderstone replicates? Seems like a simple & safe bonus to CR, but I don't know how much of one.

[Clistenes]

It should count if you have it moved. Otherwise break it down for parts and craft another one?

I think that would count as repairing the same trap...

Anyways, repairing a CR 10 Poisoned Spiked Pit Trap would cost 3940 gp. A ECL 17 character would get 425 xp... That is, each xp would cost you 9.27 gp... On the other hand, a high level Wizard can make money appear just snapping his fingers (Fabricate spell)...

Of course, you would need a Periapt against Poison...


Ehh, if you have to go mechanical, use the large net trap as a base. Completely nonlethal, has an attack and a save. Boost everything to the highest tier (Search DC, Disable Device DC, Attack Bonus, & Save DC), make it hit multiple targets, and add a 1 round onset delay. You're at CR of 13 before you start adding alchemical* items and/or poisons.

Better than being stabbed by mutiple poisoned spikes... :smallsmile:

EDIT: Better not going to Faerun ever... If Tempus and Tymora read this thread, they will hate us with a passion because of our refusal to take any risk... :smalltongue:

[Hecuba]

EDIT: Better not going to Faerun ever... If Tempus and Tymora read this thread, they will hate us with a passion because of our refusal to take any risk... :smalltongue:

Ehh, Gods in the realms are generally quite busy. They don't tend to show up in person to kill people (since the Time of Troubles ended) unless get wrapped up with their followers or enemies. And while I certainly wouldn't expect either of them to answer any supplications I send, I also I doubt they're going to send angry clerics after every timid shopkeeper.

[Someguy231]

1: Worship Bahamut, become a Dragonborn of Bahamut, and get wings for FLYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2: I may head my ass over to the Hordelands, get me a horse, and take levels in Warblade, maybe a dip in Barbarian cause I get pissed from time to time.

3: Try to be buds with the Khahan at the time (Either Yamun or Hubadai. Maybe Hubadai for non-evil alignment). If I wanna survive, I wanna know the people around be more better than whats in the books.

4: ???

5: PROFIT! :P

I feel like I'm the only one that wants to be a melee class, and a good one at best.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I feel like I'm the only one that wants to be a melee class, and a good one at best.

It's not really surprising.
After all it's not only your ass on the line for real if you land in FR yourself, i also doubt that many people here can boast anything close to a fighter's physique.
The intelligence to learn at least low level spells? Probably most of the people here can manage that, at least enough to then get a basic +int item.
The strength and constitution to survive low level melee? Probably not.

There's also the fact that spellcasters get safer as their levels increase - they get more and more options to protect themselves, predict danger, recover from injuries or just not fight in person at all.
For mundanes it's the other way around. Your enemies get more dangerous as you get stronger, with nastier and more deadly abilities - that your ability to deal with doesn't increase at all.

Not to mention that you can melee just as well as a gish. While also casting 9th level spells.

[Honest Tiefling]

EDIT: Better not going to Faerun ever... If Tempus and Tymora read this thread, they will hate us with a passion because of our refusal to take any risk... :smalltongue:

As Tymora is chaotic GOOD, the chances of her smiting people because she got pissy is low. Sure, she'd probably be annoyed, but Tymora is already a basket case religion to follow anyway. Always take risks? Blindly leaping into the fray is better then planning? WHY

Tempus on the other hand, is actually quite protective of pacifists. Remember that his following is charged to never harm an Eldathian, so one might assume that he prefers battles between willing participants dedicated to war rather then people pissing themselves in fear. He also doesn't want Garagos' domains, so he probably doesn't want everything destroyed. And you never get nifty toys or feasts if you accidentally kill all of the blacksmiths and other civilians!

Annoyed? Maybe. Smiting? Probably not.

[Lord Raziere]

I would go with Druid.

Most of a fantasy world is wilderness, so the class most set up to deal with that is the caster class based around it. If I go with wizard, I won't know where civilization is or where to get the spells. I mean sure, the wizard if at high levels can be a god, but you have to get there first, and until then your weaker than a fighter.

A Druid on the other hand is a divine class, so I don't need civilization, books and I get a sturdier chassis in general.

[Honest Tiefling]

A Druid on the other hand is a divine class, so I don't need civilization, books and I get a sturdier chassis in general.

While otherwise a good plan, you are going to get sucked into the godly wars due to most druid gods being heavily involved in godly disputes. Silvanus' dogma is also hard to follow, given you have to do something about people who employ fire. Yeah, that's a doozy.

Being a druid of Shiallia in the wilderness helping bunnies find company? Yeah, there are worse plans.

[sleepyphoenixx]

While otherwise a good plan, you are going to get sucked into the godly wars due to most druid gods being heavily involved in godly disputes. Silvanus' dogma is also hard to follow, given you have to do something about people who employ fire. Yeah, that's a doozy.

Being a druid of Shiallia in the wilderness helping bunnies find company? Yeah, there are worse plans.

Druids in FR can also worship Chauntea and Eldath, so it's not like you can't get a relatively peaceful patron deity.
Mielikki shouldn't be that bad either (and worshipping her has the bonus of allowing you to wear metal armor).
Everyone good has problems with Malar's followers anyway because they're all *******s, and Talona and Talos are similar. So it's not like you're making enemies that would've left you alone otherwise.

[Someguy231]

It's not really surprising.
After all it's not only your ass on the line for real if you land in FR yourself, i also doubt that many people here can boast anything close to a fighter's physique.
The intelligence to learn at least low level spells? Probably most of the people here can manage that, at least enough to then get a basic +int item.
The strength and constitution to survive low level melee? Probably not.

There's also the fact that spellcasters get safer as their levels increase - they get more and more options to protect themselves, predict danger, recover from injuries or just not fight in person at all.
For mundanes it's the other way around. Your enemies get more dangerous as you get stronger, with nastier and more deadly abilities - that your ability to deal with doesn't increase at all.

Not to mention that you can melee just as well as a gish. While also casting 9th level spells.

Well, Warblades are sorta gishes with Maneuvers (they're one of the martial adept classes). And ay least I don't break the choice of going for an INT based class, since Warblades class abilities go off your INT Mod.

Also, I'd be a good fighting type since I practice martial arts and I'm in the military.

[Lord Raziere]

While otherwise a good plan, you are going to get sucked into the godly wars due to most druid gods being heavily involved in godly disputes. Silvanus' dogma is also hard to follow, given you have to do something about people who employ fire. Yeah, that's a doozy.

Being a druid of Shiallia in the wilderness helping bunnies find company? Yeah, there are worse plans.

well I would say Ranger, but they have the same problem as fighters in that I'm not sure that my scores are high enough to make it worthwhile.

assuming I only have core classes to choose from:
-Cleric has the same problems as Druid but with Less Wilderness Survival
-Sorcerer while Charisma rather than Intelligence and thus potentially more socially viable in some ways, I still have to get to the point where I survive long enough to make being a Sorcerer being worthwhile like a Wizard
-Monk is a bad idea both alignment wise and abilities wise, as well as Paladin
-Rogue is flexible, but the lack of magic would hurt me and I wouldn't be that good in a fight
-Barbarian is theoretically better than fighter without the godly disputes problems, but again, the ability score problem.
-On Bard: This one is tricky. Bard in theory might be one of the best solo classes. Not the best any one thing, but you can use your bag of tricks to get out the situations you find yourself in. your more sturdy than a wizard, you have enough magic to up your chances of survival, you got near-rogue levels of skills to call upon, and when you get to a town you can basically start using social skills to the max. bardic knowledge provides you good reason why you'd know so much about Faerun......but this is all assuming that I have the Charisma for it. given that I'm a nerd with not many friends....I wouldn't count on it.

Therefore, Druid.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Well, Warblades are sorta gishes with Maneuvers (they're one of the martial adept classes). And ay least I don't break the choice of going for an INT based class, since Warblades class abilities go off your INT Mod.

Also, I'd be a good fighting type since I practice martial arts and I'm in the military.
The point of magic in this situation is all the non-combat stuff it provides.

Though if you're set on a martial adept i'd at least take Martial Study at the appropriate levels to get that strike that provide Heal, if you're not a crusader, or Iron Heart Surge if you're not a Warblade. Because those two should keep you relatively safe if you get far enough to use them.

Otherwise you'll likely end up cursed, dying of poison, Ghoul Fever or Mummy Rot or any number of other ailments, all nasty and disturbing in their own right. That's what i'd want magic to deal with.
Well, that and so i don't have to fight up close and personal unless absolutely necessary, for the massive bag of tricks to get myself out of trouble and because i'm lazy enough that Prestidigitation is a major reason for me to go wizard.:smallbiggrin:


well I would say Ranger, but they have the same problem as fighters in that I'm not sure that my scores are high enough to make it worthwhile.
...
Therefore, Druid.
Druid isn't a bad start, assuming you pick one of the good deities.

Nothings stopping you from going into Arcane Hierophant later for the best of both worlds after all. :smalltongue:
That one doesn't even have any fluff requirements beyond "study druidic and arcane magic", so it's all good.

[Sagetim]

I've always thought the easiest way to ensure your safety would be by playing a character the Wedded to History feat who hasn't started playing yet. Starting anywhere, but probably in a nicer area like Waterdeep or Silverymoon, be a 1st level commoner with the chicken infested (for food and money!) and Wedded to History feats, then just go with the flow, never do anything overly interesting, and if asked to do anything, or if attacked, say 'Sorry, I'm new here'. You can follow that up with 'I'm not going to be a PC for quite some time,' although they may just get confused. That way you get immortality and comfort, and you don't have to 'live in interesting times.'

What I'd most want to do would be to be a warforged gestalt sorcerer/cleric of Mystra, plopped down in Myth Drannor, specifically in the hidden and protected room containing the full set of Nether Scrolls that's been transformed into a beech tree. Not needing food or water, I could then study the tree without interruption and shoot ahead 50 levels. I'd take 20 levels of sorcerer, 20 of wizard, and 10 of planeshifter on the arcane side. On the other side, I'd take cleric, church inquisitor, and increasing levels of dweomerkeeper. By the time 50 weeks are up, I would have plenty of free supernatural wishes to outfit myself, increase my stats, and turn myself into a LeShay. At that point I could try to retire to my personal demiplane or hang out in the Court of Stars, or possibly become one of Mystra's agents that sprinkles treasure around for adventurers to find. If anything went wrong, I could call for help from Mystra's chosen by whispering their names and asking for help (and if they refuse, repeat over and over without cease until they show up). Either way, I'd follow all of this up by doing my level best to keep Fourth Edition rules from taking over (share knowledge and prevent the Spellplague, etc.).

Oh, I think my vote does for landing in your location as an Elan Psion and punching you unconscious every so many levels you gain so that I get enormous fat stacks of xp for defeating someone higher level than me*. Eventually being a powerful Shaper would pay off. In the short term Psionic Repair Damage is super effective for construct healing and is a level 2 power (so fixing Bronk up after beating it unconscious for xp would be easy). Be it from Minor Creation shenanigans, Fabricate (or Greater Fabricate) shenanigans, or just the fact that you can create an astral construct with the power of your mind and (with the right feats) have a utility construct that lasts for hours and can be shaped like a comfy chair with shock absorbers to walk you from place to place. I think that might be one of my ways of making a living while in Faerun, actually...giving people rides on the walking chair. Oh, and introducing crucible steel. As far as I know the steel that Forgotten Realms has is the same kind of haphazard steel that medieval europe had to utilize, so introducing the Ulfberht seems like it might be a pretty nasty surprise for people expecting a non-magical sword to snap.

Oh, and using Expanded Knowledge to pick up Touch of Health, Mend Wounds, and Psionic Restoration off the Ardent's list. And maybe Psionic revifify. But I think that one might piss the gods off for tromping on their territory too much.

And of course if Bronk isn't up for that, I'd be willing to take Hecuba up on that nonlethal sparring for xp arrangement. Not even beating eachother with sticks, just slapping until one of us goes down from nonlethal damage.

*this is based on the assumption that you have to be an arcanist to get xp off the nether scrolls, if that's not the case I'll just wait until you finish the first one, doodle in my travel journal or something**, and start reading that after you get done with it.

**Like going through a consistent workout routine since I would have literally nothing better to do.

[Someguy231]

The point of magic in this situation is all the non-combat stuff it provides.

Though if you're set on a martial adept i'd at least take Martial Study at the appropriate levels to get that strike that provide Heal, if you're not a crusader, or Iron Heart Surge if you're not a Warblade.

Well, I just don't like taking the SUPER EASY route, I'd like the feeling of getting **** done the good ole fashion way.

Also, I am going Warblade, so Of course Iron Heart Surge is gonna be my main usage Maneuver along side Some White Raven stuff. And yeah, Revitalizing Strike will sound like a good idea as well.

Gods, just cause I'm a melee combatant, doesn't mean I'm an idiot that doesn't know to go for these maneuvers. And I'll be aiming to nab me a belt of healing and an amulet of tears for more HP anyways.

[Sagetim]

Well, I just don't like taking the SUPER EASY route, I'd like the feeling of getting **** done the good ole fashion way.

Also, I am going Warblade, so Of course Iron Heart Surge is gonna be my main usage Maneuver along side Some White Raven stuff. And yeah, Revitalizing Strike will sound like a good idea as well.

Gods, just cause I'm a melee combatant, doesn't mean I'm an idiot that doesn't know to go for these maneuvers. And I'll be aiming to nab me a belt of healing and an amulet of tears for more HP anyways.

And you could come visit me or one of the other psionic playgronders for a psychoactive skin of ectoplasmic armor. Because it's Suuuuuuper light for the armor rating it gives. If you don't have to walk arond in 50 pounds of steel, and instead can pack your armor up or put it on as an action and it only weighs 1 pound? Nice.

[Someguy231]

And you could come visit me or one of the other psionic playgronders for a psychoactive skin of ectoplasmic armor. Because it's Suuuuuuper light for the armor rating it gives. If you don't have to walk arond in 50 pounds of steel, and instead can pack your armor up or put it on as an action and it only weighs 1 pound? Nice.

Sounds convincing, but I'll stick with my Mithral Breastplate. c:

Also, since I said I wanted to go for a Winged Dragonborn of Bahamut route, light armor is a need since I'll get the natural ability to fly.

[Sagetim]

Sounds convincing, but I'll stick with my Mithral Breastplate. c:

Also, since I said I wanted to go for a Winged Dragonborn of Bahamut route, light armor is a need since I'll get the natural ability to fly.

It requires light armor proficiency, gives the ac bonus of full plate, and when deployed fits over your entire body, so...I mean, you got wings it will fit on those just fine without any need to be modified. So, you know, I think it IS light armor...just weird light armor that's under Universal Items instead of statted as an enchanted armor.

[Bronk]

And of course if Bronk isn't up for that

Well, at least wait until I'm high enough level to silence the area first! Neither of us wants to alert the scary sentient floor or the eladrin bouncers a few rooms over! (Or do I?)

[Someguy231]

It requires light armor proficiency, gives the ac bonus of full plate, and when deployed fits over your entire body, so...I mean, you got wings it will fit on those just fine without any need to be modified. So, you know, I think it IS light armor...just weird light armor that's under Universal Items instead of statted as an enchanted armor.

What's the AC bonus, Check Penalty, and MAX Dex?

Nvm AC Bonus part, saw it gives AC like a Full plate. So, Check Penalty and Max Dex?

[Honest Tiefling]

Sounds convincing, but I'll stick with my Mithral Breastplate. c:

Also, since I said I wanted to go for a Winged Dragonborn of Bahamut route, light armor is a need since I'll get the natural ability to fly.

I'm more wondering how you're obtaining the martial training, contact with the church of Bahamut AND expensive armor at level 1.

I mean, everyone else is assuming that the world is entirely too lethal and arguing if Wizard or Druid is better to hide away from the plot with.

[Sagetim]

What's the AC bonus, Check Penalty, and MAX Dex?

Nvm AC Bonus part, saw it gives AC like a Full plate. So, Check Penalty and Max Dex?

+8 Armor to AC, +2 Max Dex -6 ACP, 25% Arcane Failure, no movement penalty, weight 1 lb. Cost 3k gold. It can technically be dispelled to cause it to shrink back into it's ball form for 1d4 rounds, but it's a far cheaper alternative for armor until you can afford Mithral Breastplate of +4 or better.

Don't forget to pick up a martial item to steal a devoted spirit maneuver so you can self heal by hitting things. I forget what the items are called, but it's not too expensive to get one to grant you the level 3 healing strike. Then you're cooking with gas.

[Someguy231]

I'm more wondering how you're obtaining the martial training, contact with the church of Bahamut AND expensive armor at level 1.

I mean, everyone else is assuming that the world is entirely too lethal and arguing if Wizard or Druid is better to hide away from the plot with.

Well, hopefully I can find that in a spot where the church of Bahamut is prevailent. Probably Damara since in the lore, that's where Bahamut's church found a comfy spot in the Faerunian Pantheon once again. As for the armor, I may get that at later levels, since I kinda want to spend the first few levels doing the training stuff as a Warblade. Work my way up there, like everyone else is doing. c:

So, that cancels out my idea to go to the Hordelands, which I wanted to go there since last Forgotten Realms campaign I was in, I played a Tuigan Duskblade, and decided to study up on the Hordelands to get a good look on how to roleplay someone from that part of Toril. But, learning Damaran can't be that bad, since they're the FR version of Germany, right?

[Clistenes]

I would go with Druid.

Most of a fantasy world is wilderness, so the class most set up to deal with that is the caster class based around it. If I go with wizard, I won't know where civilization is or where to get the spells. I mean sure, the wizard if at high levels can be a god, but you have to get there first, and until then your weaker than a fighter.

A Druid on the other hand is a divine class, so I don't need civilization, books and I get a sturdier chassis in general.

As a Wizard, you get two free spells per level, which you don't have to find or buy. Those are enough to make a living while you farm xp and rise in level. Eventually you will be rich enough to make money appear out of thin air and buy all the scrolls you need...

Another option is Oriental Adventures Shaman. Sturdier than a Wizard and you get an Animal Companion, Unarmed Strike and healing spells, you get to handpick your domains and you get all you spells for free, all of which helps you survive the low levels. You exchange high level raw power and coolness for low level survivality.

And you don't depend on pesky gods for your powers! (you would still have to worship one because of that Wall of the Faithless thing...).

[Honest Tiefling]

So, that cancels out my idea to go to the Hordelands, which I wanted to go there since last Forgotten Realms campaign I was in, I played a Tuigan Duskblade, and decided to study up on the Hordelands to get a good look on how to roleplay someone from that part of Toril. But, learning Damaran can't be that bad, since they're the FR version of Germany, right?

Huh. Do you have a source for that? I ask because Faiths and Panethons doesn't mention Bahamut as far as I can tell. The Campaign Setting also doesn't list him as a major god, either. Was this introduced in an adventure or other book?

As for Damarra being Germany...I think it's more Russia, given the weather, and promixity to the East. The fact that Ivor, Pavel, Katerin, and Mara are names really makes me think it is supposed to be Russia. The Witch-King seems pretty reminiscent of a certain lich from Russian folklore as well...

[Someguy231]

Huh. Do you have a source for that? I ask because Faiths and Panethons doesn't mention Bahamut as far as I can tell. The Campaign Setting also doesn't list him as a major god, either. Was this introduced in an adventure or other book?

As for Damarra being Germany...I think it's more Russia, given the weather, and promixity to the East. The fact that Ivor, Pavel, Katerin, and Mara are names really makes me think it is supposed to be Russia. The Witch-King seems pretty reminiscent of a certain lich from Russian folklore as well...

Bahamut has played prevolant roles in the Forgotten Realms, and has been stated in other splatbooks that he's in the Draconic Pantheon, not Faerunian. Also, Races of the Dragon state that the Draognborn only need to be reflavored for Ebberon, while they can still be the Dragonborn of Bahamut in Forgotten Realms. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Bahamut Also, this.

As for Damara, it's more like Germany, but it does have it's Slavic influences in there. Rashemen is more akin to Russia in my opinion.

[Sagetim]

Oh, if this is the same Forgotten Realms setting as the one that I ran for my group where they were running a party of evil characters, I would get in contact with Drizzit's friends and tell them where the body is. You know, as a matter of courtesy.

[Someguy231]

Oh, if this is the same Forgotten Realms setting as the one that I ran for my group where they were running a party of evil characters, I would get in contact with Drizzit's friends and tell them where the body is. You know, as a matter of courtesy.

wut body?

boi...

[Sagetim]

wut body?

boi...

I mean, it's not my fault that the players were running an evil party and, on coming near to an event where Drizzit and company were (as I recall it was some kind of jousting type tournament and they were there as npcs, watching. Because entertainment in the realms is rather similar to medieval europe). In any case, one of the party Fighters (this party had not one, but two Fighters playing Just Fighter, different builds though). The Scythe Fighter decided he was going to pick a fight with and duel Drizzit. Suffice to say, he won. This is because Drizzit isn't very well statted in the forgotten realm campaign setting. So, you know...being an evil man wearing a mask, he absconded with the body. To the nearby woods. And coordinated with the other party members to loot and dismember the body and split up the parts and hide them, while he continued running off with an angry mob chasing him once they spotted him again. This was also how that character earned the title of "The Masked Bastard"

So, you know....I'd tell them where the body was. If it was even relevant anymore. I mean, I'm sure they could scrounge together 25k in diamond dust and a 9th level spell from a cleric who owes them one.

Oh, and I have to second any plan that involves relying on Cadderly to help. That guy is probably the only reasonable character in the setting. Super old because of the cost of casting miracle over and over, but reliable. So, you know, find a way to restore his youth.

[Honest Tiefling]

I mean, it's not my fault that the players were running an evil party and, on coming near to an event where Drizzit and company were (as I recall it was some kind of jousting type tournament and they were there as npcs, watching.

Given how most people I know of hate Drizzt, if you were running a game for evil characters and didn't give them the chance to kill him I'd be sorely disappointed.

[Lord Raziere]

As a Wizard, you get two free spells per level, which you don't have to find or buy. Those are enough to make a living while you farm xp and rise in level. Eventually you will be rich enough to make money appear out of thin air and buy all the scrolls you need...

Another option is Oriental Adventures Shaman. Sturdier than a Wizard and you get an Animal Companion, Unarmed Strike and healing spells, you get to handpick your domains and you get all you spells for free, all of which helps you survive the low levels. You exchange high level raw power and coolness for low level survivality.

And you don't depend on pesky gods for your powers! (you would still have to worship one because of that Wall of the Faithless thing...).

Nah, wizard is too risky and squishy. I'm still a bookish guy who doesn't know the first thing about surviving the wilds and probably get the gods angry at me if I try something haxxors. if I recall Faerun deities change the physics of the world to keep technology from progressing to keep themselves in power and there is a goddess who controls magic anyways. Not wise.

If I have to worship a deity anyways, I might as well be a Druid. Package deal. Its not as if civilization is going to advance any time soon under the gods. If it was Eberron it would be a completely different story, because its Eberron, but Faerun? Druid.

[Tvtyrant]

Easy, I go wizard then focus on getting enough power or money to teleport myself through time to lost Netheril. Then I get to live for thousands of years as a level 30+ magelord before falling to my death.

Or more likely I get eaten by a grue or something within a few minutes of arriving. Isn't Faerun the one where all the furniture is actually different types of mimics?

[Someguy231]

Well, hopefully I can find that in a spot where the church of Bahamut is prevailent. Probably Damara since in the lore, that's where Bahamut's church found a comfy spot in the Faerunian Pantheon once again. As for the armor, I may get that at later levels, since I kinda want to spend the first few levels doing the training stuff as a Warblade. Work my way up there, like everyone else is doing. c:

So, that cancels out my idea to go to the Hordelands, which I wanted to go there since last Forgotten Realms campaign I was in, I played a Tuigan Duskblade, and decided to study up on the Hordelands to get a good look on how to roleplay someone from that part of Toril. But, learning Damaran can't be that bad, since they're the FR version of Germany, right?

Hmm... since I have martial arts training IRL (Can interpret this with Improved Unarmed, with Superior Unarmed taken later), I may need me a weapon just in case. Should I go Greatsword, or Halberd (The most VERSATILE weapon ever invented)?

[Seltsamuel]

I´d try to be polymorphed into a dwarf, go the druidic lifestyle and join a brewery. Why dieing for exp when you can have beer? :smallwink:

[Vizzerdrix]

I feel like I'm the only one that wants to be a melee class, and a good one at best.

Oh, I intend on getting into melee. At least making a few grapple checks. :smallwink:

[Lazymancer]

Rashemen is more akin to Russia in my opinion.
Wasn't it literally founded by Rus?

[Someguy231]

Oh, I intend on getting into melee. At least making a few grapple checks. :smallwink:

Oh, you dirty boi. Use a create water to clean yourself up or something.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Hmm... since I have martial arts training IRL (Can interpret this with Improved Unarmed, with Superior Unarmed taken later), I may need me a weapon just in case. Should I go Greatsword, or Halberd (The most VERSATILE weapon ever invented)?

If you don't already have training with a sword i'd go for something a little lighter. Not to mention something that requires less skill, like a morningstar or battle axe.
Using a sword properly is hard if you lack the training, but hacking/bashing is something everyone can figure out.
If you insist on a sword longsword or scimitar would be my pick. Greatswords are heavy.

[Vizzerdrix]

If you don't already have training with a sword i'd go for something a little lighter. Not to mention something that requires less skill, like a morningstar or battle axe.
Using a sword properly is hard if you lack the training, but hacking/bashing is something everyone can figure out.
If you insist on a sword longsword or scimitar would be my pick. Greatswords are heavy.

A battleaxe is a rather complex weapon to handle propperly, and quite tireing. For it to be effective you have to keep it moving. Clubs and shields are easy to use and light.

[CIDE]

I may be missing something here but what's the point of the level 1 plane shift everyone seems to be focused lb? A resource, experience farming, what?

[Tvtyrant]

Huh. Do you have a source for that? I ask because Faiths and Panethons doesn't mention Bahamut as far as I can tell. The Campaign Setting also doesn't list him as a major god, either. Was this introduced in an adventure or other book?

As for Damarra being Germany...I think it's more Russia, given the weather, and promixity to the East. The fact that Ivor, Pavel, Katerin, and Mara are names really makes me think it is supposed to be Russia. The Witch-King seems pretty reminiscent of a certain lich from Russian folklore as well...

I thought Rasheman was supposed to be celtic, with all of the druids and witches and having once been enslaved by space Rome (Imaskar.)

[sleepyphoenixx]

I may be missing something here but what's the point of the level 1 plane shift everyone seems to be focused lb? A resource, experience farming, what?

The purpose is to GTFO because Faerun is a crapsack death world.

[CIDE]

The purpose is to GTFO because Faerun is a crapsack death world.

Lol. Yeah, I already wanted to leave it too. I don't even know the setting that well. I've only played in it once. I was just wondering if there was more to it.

[Tvtyrant]

Lol. Yeah, I already wanted to leave it too. I don't even know the setting that well. I've only played in it once. I was just wondering if there was more to it.

Faerun has a lot of actually safe places though, unlike some settings. Calimport, Silverymoon, Mulhorand, most of the eastern portions of the map. Compared to Krynn, Eberron and the super settings like Planescape and Spelljammer it is actually quite safe.

[unseenmage]

Faerun has a lot of actually safe places though, unlike some settings. Calimport, Silverymoon, Mulhorand, most of the eastern portions of the map. Compared to Krynn, Eberron and the super settings like Planescape and Spelljammer it is actually quite safe.

Again I mention that as of 2nd Ed at least Faerun has at least two Spelljamming ports of call.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Faerun has a lot of actually safe places though, unlike some settings. Calimport, Silverymoon, Mulhorand, most of the eastern portions of the map. Compared to Krynn, Eberron and the super settings like Planescape and Spelljammer it is actually quite safe.

Those places are safe by the standards of the setting. That doesn't mean too much.
Silverymoon gets regular orc hordes, for example.
And the lands in between have roving groups of bandits, trolls and Zhentarim trying to stir up trouble, so they're not safe by any measure. You'd pretty much be trapped in the city.

And the city isn't "safe" safe either.
Sure, the Mythal prevents most of the nastier forms of magic and the guards are reasonably competent, but that's hardly a guarantee.

As for Mulhorand? The majority of the population are slaves.

The only real safety is personal power. Or leaving ASAP, which is why people go looking for Plane Shift.

[Tvtyrant]

Again I mention that as of 2nd Ed at least Faerun has at least two Spelljamming ports of call.
Yeah, one in Waterdeep and one in Kara-tur. But the real danger in Spelljammer is while flying around in a decaying envelope of air avoiding Neogi and Beholders.


Those places are safe by the standards of the setting. That doesn't mean too much.
Silverymoon gets regular orc hordes, for example.
And the lands in between have roving groups of bandits, trolls and Zhentarim trying to stir up trouble, so they're not safe by any measure. You'd pretty much be trapped in the city.

And the city isn't "safe" safe either.
Sure, the Mythal prevents most of the nastier forms of magic and the guards are reasonably competent, but that's hardly a guarantee.

The only real safety is personal power. Or leaving ASAP, which is why people go looking for Plane Shift.

That isn't too different from RL, to be honest. I think the average citizen of Kara-Tur, Silverymoon or Mulhorand is as safe as a Earth humanoid. Yes you can get mugged, run over by a carriage or get a disease but the armies of a godking, the beyond epic magic of a mythal or literal gods keep you safe from invasion.

Mulhorand is space-magic Egypt, they aren't slaves but serfs.

[sleepyphoenixx]

That isn't too different from RL, to be honest. I think the average citizen of Kara-Tur, Silverymoon or Mulhorand is as safe as a Earth humanoid. Yes you can get mugged, run over by a carriage or get a disease but the armies of a godking, the beyond epic magic of a mythal or literal gods keep you safe from invasion.
That depends quite heavily on where you live in RL. Because where i live you don't actually have to fear being mugged. Or being attacked by bandits when you travel.
And "get a disease" gets a lot more sinister if you catch Ghoul Fever instead of the common cold.

Not to mention that RL doesn't have people with actual magic running around serving evil gods. As far as i'm aware, anyway.


Mulhorand is space-magic Egypt, they aren't slaves but serfs.
The distinction is noted but meaningless because i still don't want to be one. Do you?

[Sagetim]

That depends quite heavily on where you live in RL. Because where i live you don't actually have to fear being mugged. Or being attacked by bandits when you travel.
And "get a disease" gets a lot more sinister if you catch Ghoul Fever instead of the common cold.

Not to mention that RL doesn't have people with actual magic running around serving evil gods. As far as i'm aware, anyway.


The distinction is noted but meaningless because i still don't want to be one. Do you?

No, but guns are pretty magical in real life and we have plenty of people running around casting 'bullet' at each other. This is why I'm sticking with Bronk, where it's safe (enough) to reach level 50 or so then just leave and establish an actual safe location. You know, instead of having to plan for one of the many eventual upheavals to The Weave that only ever seems to make Forgotten Realms a worse place to actually live.

[Honest Tiefling]

I may be missing something here but what's the point of the level 1 plane shift everyone seems to be focused lb? A resource, experience farming, what?

Remember, anyone who is not worshiping a god correctly gets sent to the Wall of the Faithless, where they are basically tortured to oblivion. It is possible to mess this up, and given the fact that young children probably don't have the best grasp of theology, any child who dies will be sent to this wall, without exception.

Now, add in the fact that the guy who made the place has mary sue NPCs to save the world and a love for conspiracies run by monsters. This isn't a good combination for stability or not being dragged off to be sacrificed.

Add in the fact that Mystra dies like clockwork and causes an apocalypse with her death, and the world becomes quite crap-saccharine, indeed.

[Dagroth]

Yeah... I forgot about the Weave.

Gonna switch from Arcane studies to Psion on the caster side of my Gestalt. I'm hoping to keep all my abilities once I can figure out a way to get back home... and I don't think the Weave will come with me, nor gods-granted powers... so Warlock or Psion.

[hamishspence]

Remember, anyone who is not worshiping a god correctly gets sent to the Wall of the Faithless, where they are basically tortured to oblivion. It is possible to mess this up, and given the fact that young children probably don't have the best grasp of theology, any child who dies will be sent to this wall, without exception.

That wasn't the way it was portrayed in 3.0 Deities & Demigods. There, a point was made of how the Wall of the Faithless was specifically for "those who actively oppose the worship of the gods".

the 3.0 FRCS talked about those who "paid lip service without truly believing" as Faithless, too.

If you're "worshipping your god very badly" (a heretical worshipper of Ilmater who tortures people, for example) - you're generally considered one of the False, not one of the Faithless - your god rejects you - and Kelemvor comes up with interesting "punishments for all eternity" that don't involve the Wall.

[Lord Raziere]

Remember, anyone who is not worshiping a god correctly gets sent to the Wall of the Faithless, where they are basically tortured to oblivion. It is possible to mess this up, and given the fact that young children probably don't have the best grasp of theology, any child who dies will be sent to this wall, without exception.

Now, add in the fact that the guy who made the place has mary sue NPCs to save the world and a love for conspiracies run by monsters. This isn't a good combination for stability or not being dragged off to be sacrificed.

Add in the fact that Mystra dies like clockwork and causes an apocalypse with her death, and the world becomes quite crap-saccharine, indeed.

Yeah, my plan for this later stuff is to basically as Druid, hire another wizard to planeshift me for me, or be arcane Hierophant. Because being a level 1 wizard who successfully escapes Faerun only to find themselves on a different plane which are generally not level 1 adventure friendly, especially without a spellbook.

Mystra dying like clockwork is pretty much another reason Why Not To Be A Wizard. Their magic depends entirely on a deity known for changing the rules, when doing well with that class is all about exploiting the rules on the assumption that they're consistent.

[Tvtyrant]

That depends quite heavily on where you live in RL. Because where i live you don't actually have to fear being mugged. Or being attacked by bandits when you travel.
And "get a disease" gets a lot more sinister if you catch Ghoul Fever instead of the common cold.

Not to mention that RL doesn't have people with actual magic running around serving evil gods. As far as i'm aware, anyway.


The distinction is noted but meaningless because i still don't want to be one. Do you?

Fair enough, but as I noted in my own example the benfit is if you do very well you can be an immortal Lich stronger then deities in other settings. And getting there isn't as bad as, say, Darksun where the top is you get to be a dragon-sorceror-king but everything else sucks.

[Gildedragon]

Yeah, my plan for this later stuff is to basically as Druid, hire another wizard to planeshift me for me, or be arcane Hierophant. Because being a level 1 wizard who successfully escapes Faerun only to find themselves on a different plane which are generally not level 1 adventure friendly, especially without a spellbook.

Mystra dying like clockwork is pretty much another reason Why Not To Be A Wizard. Their magic depends entirely on a deity known for changing the rules, when doing well with that class is all about exploiting the rules on the assumption that they're consistent.

Clearly a long term goal in the realms is taking over the mantle of Mystra and (after checking in with Ao) bringing some sense into the pantheon.

[sleepyphoenixx]

That wasn't the way it was portrayed in 3.0 Deities & Demigods. There, a point was made of how the Wall of the Faithless was specifically for "those who actively oppose the worship of the gods".

the 3.0 FRCS talked about those who "paid lip service without truly believing" as Faithless, too.

If you're "worshipping your god very badly" (a heretical worshipper of Ilmater who tortures people, for example) - you're generally considered one of the False, not one of the Faithless - your god rejects you - and Kelemvor comes up with interesting "punishments for all eternity" that don't involve the Wall.
Just one more reason to pick a nice god/goddess with a dogma you can get behind. Just in case.
And to not die. That should totally be your first plan. But it's good to have a backup.


Mystra dying like clockwork is pretty much another reason Why Not To Be A Wizard. Their magic depends entirely on a deity known for changing the rules, when doing well with that class is all about exploiting the rules on the assumption that they're consistent.

The rules of magic apply to all magic, arcane or divine. Not even Shadow Weave users are exempt. But only on the material plane.
There is no Weave on the other planes or in other settings, so magic works Greyhawk-style (or D&D 3.5 standard, if you will).


Fair enough, but as I noted in my own example the benfit is if you do very well you can be an immortal Lich stronger then deities in other settings. And getting there isn't as bad as, say, Darksun where the top is you get to be a dragon-sorceror-king but everything else sucks.
That's because Dark Sun is so crapsack that even other crapsack worlds want nothing to do with it. Doesn't mean it's not bad.

FR is crapsack too, but it's sneakier about it. It's all bright and shiny and "oh hey, you can be an archmage too!".
And then you get enslaved by drow, or Thayans, or Zhentarim, or the Mulhorandi (there's a lot of slavery in FR, isn't there?), or you get eaten by trolls or sacrificed to an evil god or cursed with nasty ancient magic or used as zombie fodder or turned into a wight or shadow or whatever other bad end you can come up with.

Getting dumped into FR is a race. A race between getting the power to GTFO and the setting screwing you over. It's not a matter of if, it's just a matter of when and how bad.

I appreciate that you have a generally positive outlook, but "oh hey, it could always be worse" does not help make a realistic threat assessment.

Edit: also, would you really want to be a lich for real? As in, a rotting corpse? Because there are prices i'm not willing to pay for immortality, and undeath is one of them.

[Tvtyrant]

Just one more reason to pick a nice god/goddess with a dogma you can get behind. Just in case.
And to not die. That should totally be your first plan. But it's good to have a backup.



The rules of magic apply to all magic, arcane or divine. Not even Shadow Weave users are exempt. But only on the material plane.
There is no Weave on the other planes or in other settings, so magic works Greyhawk-style (or D&D 3.5 standard, if you will).


That's because Dark Sun is so crapsack that even other crapsack worlds want nothing to do with it. Doesn't mean it's not bad.

FR is crapsack too, but it's sneakier about it. It's all bright and shiny and "oh hey, you can be an archmage too!".
And then you get enslaved by drow, or Thayans, or Zhentarim, or the Mulhorandi (there's a lot of slavery in FR, isn't there?), or you get eaten by trolls or sacrificed to an evil god or cursed with nasty ancient magic or used as zombie fodder or turned into a wight or shadow or whatever other bad end you can come up with.

Getting dumped into FR is a race. A race between getting the power to GTFO and the setting screwing you over. It's not a matter of if, it's just a matter of when and how bad.

I appreciate that you have a generally positive outlook, but "oh hey, it could always be worse" does not help make a realistic threat assessment.
Nah, I'm just actually considering the benefits. See, you are going "the chance of violent death is much higher!" While ignoring that the chance of actually dying at all is actually lower. Faerun has people who have actually become immortal and loved through multiple civilization ending events, while Earth caps out at about 110 years old max. Given the choice between maybe not dying and 100% going to die, I will take the chance of making it.

I also don't have to worry about what happens to me if I die, because I can pick an afterlife and go there instead of worrying about ifs and maybes.

You also haven't provided an example of a less dangerous world except this one, and again you have a 100% chance of death here. Your threat measurement is strange.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Nah, I'm just actually considering the benefits. See, you are going "the chance of violent death is much higher!" While ignoring that the chance of actually dying at all is actually lower. Faerun has people who have actually become immortal and loved through multiple civilization ending events, while Earth caps out at about 110 years old max. Given the choice between maybe not dying and 100% going to die, I will take the chance of making it.

I also don't have to worry about what happens to me if I die, because I can pick an afterlife and go there instead of worrying about ifs and maybes.

You also haven't provided an example of a less dangerous world except this one, and again you have a 100% chance of death here. Your threat measurement is strange.

You know, that's a good point. I hadn't considered it from that angle.

It's still a longshot. But it's not like you have much to look forward to when you get old in RL.

[Honest Tiefling]

The 3.0 Campaign setting talks about anyone without a patron deity going to the wall, so yes, I am wrong. However, this requires any child to have a patron deity before an untimely death, else they get sent there and cannot be revived outside of high level spells. I don't even think children that young can adhere to a decision to wear pants.

I assume that Kelemvor wouldn't judge a five year old harshly, except...He is bound by his job, as has been demonstrated. He also gives souls to devils, so that's a bit not-a-good-sign. There's also the demon incursion thing which is an issue.

[Clistenes]

You know, that's a good point. I hadn't considered it from that angle.

It's still a longshot. But it's not like you have much to look forward to when you get old in RL.

And that's the reason I want to go to Mount Celestia and seek magical tutelage there...

[Someguy231]

If you don't already have training with a sword i'd go for something a little lighter. Not to mention something that requires less skill, like a morningstar or battle axe.
Using a sword properly is hard if you lack the training, but hacking/bashing is something everyone can figure out.
If you insist on a sword longsword or scimitar would be my pick. Greatswords are heavy.

I'll go with Longsword. At least a longsword has a pommel which I can unscrew to end my opponent rightly with.

[Clistenes]

I'll go with Longsword. At least a longsword has a pommel which I can unscrew to end my opponent rightly with.

Wasn't it said that the easiest weapons to learn to use (in RL) were the dao, the cutlass and the langmesser? The swiss degen looks relatively easy to learn to use too. A combination of a medium shield and one of those swords looks like a good bet.

Besides those, the spear, the morningstar and the flanged mace seem like they wouldn't be too difficult to learn to use.


The 3.0 Campaign setting talks about anyone without a patron deity going to the wall, so yes, I am wrong. However, this requires any child to have a patron deity before an untimely death, else they get sent there and cannot be revived outside of high level spells. I don't even think children that young can adhere to a decision to wear pants.

I assume that Kelemvor wouldn't judge a five year old harshly, except...He is bound by his job, as has been demonstrated. He also gives souls to devils, so that's a bit not-a-good-sign. There's also the demon incursion thing which is an issue.

I think the souls of dead children and stillborn babies are sent to Chronias, the upper layer or Mount Celestia, under the care of Zaphkiel, the head of the Celestial Hebdomad.

[Lazymancer]

Nah, I'm just actually considering the benefits. See, you are going "the chance of violent death is much higher!" While ignoring that the chance of actually dying at all is actually lower. Faerun has people who have actually become immortal and loved through multiple civilization ending events, while Earth caps out at about 110 years old max.
Do the actual math, will you? Life on Earth caps at 110 years today. Give it 50 more years, and the cap might be 150 or 200 years. 50 more years - and this cap could be 300 or lifted altogether.


Note that you should not be comparing number of immortals not to number of currently living, but to total population that ever lived to see the chances of becoming immortal on Faerun. Let's say one out of million manages to become sufficiently immortal. If you have other numbers, note them: I'm being quite optimistic here. Szass Tam was one of the more successful, but even he died at 375, which is hardly impressive: average maximum age for gnomes and dwarves is 351 years, while for elves - 552 years (provided they didn't dump their Constitution, of course).


Now, let's compare this with some first-world youth currently browsing this forum.

Let's assume that sufficiently young first-worlder has 20% chance to survive for 50 more years, while human civilization has 20% chance of avoiding major incident (WWIII, abolition of general education, or some other nonsense) that will hinder or paralyze progress during next century, and preventing the richest 0,1% from prolong their life by 50 or more years above the curve.

To put it the other way: our first-world youth has a 1 out of 25.000 chance to see 2067, while being rich and enjoying progress of science that will allow him to live to see 2117, while being sufficiently healthy.

Let's say 20% of this gerontocracy from 2067 (rich, powerful, and having a habit of not dying) - who our former youth is member of - will actually live through those 50 more years and will not get executed during anti-ageist uprisings or somesuch.

Now we have a 1 out of 125.000 chance to see "good" 2117 while being rich and powerful. If we assume that there is at least 1-in-8 chance of having technology in 2117 that will stop or reverse age (and is affordable by richest 0.1%), I say there is no difference from optimistic estimation of immortality on Faerun.

[Red Fel]

Do the actual math, will you? Life on Earth caps at 110 years today. Give it 50 more years, and the cap might be 150 or 200 years. 50 more years - and this cap could be 300 or lifted altogether.

Actually, if you're talking "actual math," a 2016 study at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine suggests that 115-20 years will be the upper limit on human lifespan, based on imperfections in cellular division and genetic reproduction at the cellular level. Barring changing the way our DNA replicates, in essence fundamentally rewriting the genome, that's pretty much it. No amount of exercise, or diet, or treatments, can change the fact that the equipment ages and stops repairing itself.

By contrast, there are ample ways in a D&D setting, Faerun included, to artificially extend your lifespan, potentially indefinitely, because the whole "Hayflick Limit" thing doesn't exist in D&D. Aside from the fact that age exists, and that age-related penalties exist, there is no genetic law that states that no matter one's age, at a certain point their body just stops generating more of itself. So as long as you can postpone death from age and outside sources, you can actually live forever.

Let's say 1/1,000,000 gains immortality in Faerun. That's still a higher proportion than the 0/everyone proportion of people who can live forever in real life. That's "actual math."

[sleepyphoenixx]

Let's also not forget that waiting for life extension in RL you're basically hoping science will advance far enough before you die to keep you alive long enough for the next breakthrough.

Or that roughly half of that 120 year lifespan is spend basically crippled to a growing extent. Hell, i'm not even 40 yet and i can already feel the wear and tear building up.
I can't speak for others, but i'd rather die at 60 than spend another 40-60 years half-dead already rotting away in some kind of senior residence.

Faerun not only has life extension that already works, it also keeps you in your prime.

Also by the parameters of the OP you already start off with a significant advantage over native faerunians, so your chance is actually much higher than 1/1,000,000.

[Lazymancer]

Let's say 1/1,000,000 gains immortality in Faerun. That's still a higher proportion than the 0/everyone proportion of people who can live forever in real life. That's "actual math."
Actual math has to be based on actual facts. Which strongly suggest that situation on Earth tend to change.


... a 2016 study at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine suggests that 115-20 years will be the upper limit on human lifespan, based on imperfections in cellular division and genetic reproduction at the cellular level.
Do really I need to remind people here about famously impossible heavier-than-air flying machines? Or all that horse**** cities will be drowning in any second now - because of all the horses we use?

This study is based on an assumption that medicine will be playing by the same rules as it did in previous century. As history should provide ample evidence - rules tend to change. Who is to say we will not be rewiring chromosomes by 2090?



Let's also not forget that waiting for life extension in RL you're basically hoping science will advance far enough before you die to keep you alive long enough for the next breakthrough.
Let's also not forget that I explicitly pointed that out.


Or that roughly half of that 120 year lifespan is spend basically crippled to a growing extent.
Your point being? You are not going to have miraculously comfortable life on Faerun. You are either going to die (relatively) young or live through the very same ageing process, as you will IRL. Or do you expect to become immortal within a decade?


I can't speak for others, but i'd rather die at 60 than spend another 40-60 years half-dead already rotting away in some kind of senior residence.
I assure you, rich people do not rot away in senior residences.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Your point being? You are not going to have miraculously comfortable life on Faerun. You are either going to die (relatively) young or live through the very same ageing process, as you will IRL.
Only if you're not a spellcaster.
Since the whole premise of this thread is that you arrive roughly in the location of your choice with your first level in a class of your choice?
You'd have to be either very stupid or unlucky to not have a comfortable life.

Or do you expect to become immortal within a decade?
Actually? Yes.
Considering that the lowest bar for immortality is becoming a Necropolitan it isn't even all that hard. Not that i'd go that way because i find undead disgusting, but it's there.
There are also plentiful options to simply slow your aging to give yourself more time to find a permanent solution, starting at level 9 (Living Zombies) or 10 (Tasmia's Heart) depending on your scruples.
Point being that you don't have to be epic or even particularly high level to become effectively immortal.

There's also the fact that in FR you can actually afford to mess up, as long as you have friends and put aside the money to get raised/reincarnated.
Or just get yourself a contingent Revivify or Last Breath or a magic item. How about a Ring of Nine Lives?

I assure you, rich people do not rot away in senior residences.
So they rot away in comfort. Not my point. No money in the world reverses the aging process in RL, and i doubt science will manage it before i shuffle off.
I'm also not rich.

[Someguy231]

Wasn't it said that the easiest weapons to learn to use (in RL) were the dao, the cutlass and the langmesser? The swiss degen looks relatively easy to learn to use too. A combination of a medium shield and one of those swords looks like a good bet.

Besides those, the spear, the morningstar and the flanged mace seem like they wouldn't be too difficult to learn to use.

I assume you don't know of the meme of "End Him Rightly."

[Clistenes]

You know, you don't have to choose between staying in Faerun or coming back to RL Earth... If you get Plane Shift or you board a Spelljamming vessel, you have access to like a million fantasy worlds and dimensions where you can study magic and become immortal just like in Faerun...

Or course, Wildspace has dangers of its own, but using Plane Shift you can theorically hop to any Plane or Crystal Sphere you want without having to brave Wildspace (for Crystal Spheres, cast Plane Shift, go to a safe place in the planes, then cast it again to travel to the Prime world of your choice...).

[Dagroth]

Or, on Faerun, you just get 2 scrolls... one of Polymorph, one of PaO. (Draconic Polymorph would be slightly better, if you can get it). Pay a Wizard or Sorcerer to cast, if you can't.

Bang, now you're an Outsider and do not suffer aging rolls... ever!

If you're a Psion of sufficiently high level, you only need the PaO to make your own change permanent.

If I can truly pick my race, I'm switching to Half-Celestial Changeling... because being able to change how I look on a whim is awesome; and the Celestial template does not make you an Outsider, despite saying that their offspring are Half-Celestials which are Outsiders!

[Clistenes]

I assume you don't know of the meme of "End Him Rightly."

Now I know... :smallwink:


Or, on Faerun, you just get 2 scrolls... one of Polymorph, one of PaO. (Draconic Polymorph would be slightly better, if you can get it). Pay a Wizard or Sorcerer to cast, if you can't.

Bang, now you're an Outsider and do not suffer aging rolls... ever!

If you're a Psion of sufficiently high level, you only need the PaO to make your own change permanent.

If I can truly pick my race, I'm switching to Half-Celestial Changeling... because being able to change how I look on a whim is awesome; and the Celestial template does not make you an Outsider, despite saying that their offspring are Half-Celestials which are Outsiders!

Actually, PaO only changes you into base creatures, no templates allowed.

Just change into some kind of standard Celestial with high Intelligence (a Tulani, for example) and spend your immortal life trying to buy the LA off... Since PaO doesn't give you HD or magical attacks and properties, I guess your ECL should be lower than that of the real creature...

EDIT: Being humanoid-shaped medium-sized mammals, the change from human to Tulani would be permanent without need of Polymorph chain shenanigans...

[Dagroth]

Actually, PaO only changes you into base creatures, no templates allowed.

Just change into some kind of standard Celestial with high Intelligence (a Tulani, for example) and spend your immortal life trying to buy the LA off... Since PaO doesn't give you HD or magical attacks and properties, I guess your ECL should be lower than that of the real creature...

EDIT: Being humanoid-shaped medium-sized mammals, the change from human to Tulani would be permanent without need of Polymorph chain shenanigans...

Tulani are not mammals, they're Outsiders. That's a Type change. Not permanent.

This is a commonly accepted fact in all PaO threads I've read.

[Red Fel]

Actual math has to be based on actual facts. Which strongly suggest that situation on Earth tend to change.

Actual facts are what exist today. Anything more than that is conjecture. I prefer to base actual math on the former than the latter.


Do really I need to remind people here about famously impossible heavier-than-air flying machines? Or all that horse**** cities will be drowning in any second now - because of all the horses we use?

This study is based on an assumption that medicine will be playing by the same rules as it did in previous century. As history should provide ample evidence - rules tend to change. Who is to say we will not be rewiring chromosomes by 2090?

Here's the thing, though. Those things claimed a thing was "impossible" because we couldn't figure out how to do it. Something was impossible because we didn't understand how things worked. In this case, we do understand how things work. Absent an alteration at the genetic level, the DNA - to put it simply - runs out of carbon paper to copy itself. The materials it uses to replicate run out, and the cells can no longer replicate efficiently or effectively.

We know these things. These aren't merely assumptions, they're demonstrated facts. And while that doesn't mean that science can't try to change those facts, doing so requires technology and advancements that are substantially beyond present means.

You are offering a conjecture of a future in which the means exist to change the facts. And perhaps that future will come at some point. You are further offering a conjecture that not only will that future come, but (1) it will come within the next hundred years, and (2) that technology will be broadly, or even on-a-limited-basis, available at that time. You base your conjecture on... What, exactly? The fact that technology marches forwards?

My position is supported by actual facts and actual science. Your position is based on a hypothetical scenario in which things turn out exactly as you'd like. While I won't write it off as an impossibility, I could easily come up with a similar position - for example, if tomorrow someone discovered an elixir of immortality, and distributed it universally without cost, your chances of becoming immortal here are greater than living forever in Faerun. The problem is, that position is based entirely upon a hypothetical, not on facts.

So let's move on from that point, and get back to talking about opening a dry cleaners for the galaxy of comically overpowered Wizards who want their robes cleaned just so.

[Gildedragon]

For the dry-cleaner: Clearly one wants a custom researched prestidigitation (clean + scent) effect that lasts some 4 days, with a sudden dirtying up effect as it ends.
Magic aura the robes after that (to give off the aura they had before falling into one's cleaner)
That way one ensures the robes keep coming back.

... Maybe a discretely added ravenloft Device
Gilder's Cleaners: They'll stay clean in an antimagic field or weave collapse or your money back.

[Clistenes]

Tulani are not mammals, they're Outsiders. That's a Type change. Not permanent.

This is a commonly accepted fact in all PaO threads I've read.

The text of PaO divides all creatures into Animal, Vegetal or Mineral. Tulani aren't Vegetal or Mineral, so they fall within Animal.

Now, you could make the argument that Mammals and Outsiders are a different classes within the Animal Kingdom, but I disagree. Aasimars, Tierflings and Genesai are basically humans with all the human bits and organs and stuff but with a Celestial, Fiendish or Elemental ancestor, and they are Outsiders... I think that proves that Outsiders aren't a Kingdom, Phylum, Clade, Class, Order or whatever; what makes an Outsider an Outsider is some mystical quality, not a biological one...

You have insect-like Outsiders like Formians, elemental-like Outsiders like Mephits, shadow-like Outsiders like Shadow-demons, Robot-like Modrons, pure energy Energons, Crustacean-like Piscoloths, Frog-like Hydroloths... They can viviparous or oviparous. They can be incorporeal, liquid, mineral, or be made of clockwork pieces... And, as I said, you can have an almost normal guy with silvery hair who sleeps and eats and drinks and craps and has the same body structure and organs like everybody else.

Physically speaking, Tulani are almost identical to elves or half-elves.

But even if you don't consider Tulani as mammals, they are still Medium-sized humanoid-shaped Animals, that's enough to make PaO permanent.

I guess you could argue that Tulani have two shapes, one of which is a ball of light.. but if you are polymorphed into a Tulani, you DON'T become a ball of light; you don't get Special Qualities like Alternate Form when you are polymorphed, hence, you don't get the ball of light form at all when you become a Tulani, so it is irrelevant.

[Zanos]

Actually, if you're talking "actual math," a 2016 study at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine suggests that 115-20 years will be the upper limit on human lifespan, based on imperfections in cellular division and genetic reproduction at the cellular level. Barring changing the way our DNA replicates, in essence fundamentally rewriting the genome, that's pretty much it. No amount of exercise, or diet, or treatments, can change the fact that the equipment ages and stops repairing itself.
Us living to see any of it become practical, widespread, and affordable is unlikely, but there are things being work shopped that can circumvent this. I recall discussions regarding storing stem cells at birth and using them later to clone replacement organs. And of course there's the prospect of non-organic technologies, but most of that discussion is clouded in philosophical and ethical concerns over people who have scientific expertise. Life extension therapies are a minefield of societal/religious/ethical problems, even if we get the technology figured out.

I don't think it's unlikely that someone who lives to 150+ is already born, but I like my odds of making it to 1,000 in Faerun better.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I don't think it's unlikely that someone who lives to 150+ is already born, but I like my odds of making it to 1,000 in Faerun better.

Not to mention FR immortality kinda comes in a package deal with the ability to shape reality to your whims.

[El Dorado]

All of the people choosing Silverymoon should establish an Earther's guild to help their fellow travelers as they pop into the city.

[Honest Tiefling]

Not to mention FR immortality kinda comes in a package deal with the ability to shape reality to your whims.

Exactly how many people got immortality in FR without being a Mary Sue for Ed or his wife or getting horribly altered in the process?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Exactly how many people got immortality in FR without being a Mary Sue for Ed or his wife or getting horribly altered in the process?

There's a few scattered around. Not every immortal in FR is an undead abomination. Some of them get killed anyway, but it's not from old age.

There's the guy in Waterdeep who invented the Steal Life spell, he's still human iirc, but he hasn't been around that long. Still technically immortal as long as he has people to drain.
There's also Ioulaum (inventor of the epic spell Ioulaum's Longevity) who's been around since before Karsus' Folly, but he became an Elder Brain Lich later for whatever reason, so i'm not sure he counts.
Halastar Blackcloak is also probably immortal and still human. Completely insane, but afaik that's unrelated.
That's just from memory, i'm sure there are more.

Also every sufficiently high-leveled member of various PrCs like Heartwarder or Cloud Anchorite.

[CIDE]

All of the people choosing Silverymoon should establish an Earther's guild to help their fellow travelers as they pop into the city.

Considering I'm "starting" at level 20 and with insane resources I wouldn't be against doing this. Never mind building my own safe havens and my own demiplane. Granted, if I had a private Demi-plane for my private stuff I'm NOT trusting any of you ****ers in there. Unless I can make multiple Demi-planes or something.

I'd be there to help, afterall. As much as I can without upseting whatever "balance" the deities have going on. I know I'm not going to try to up tech levels any time soon.

[Honest Tiefling]

There's a few scattered around. Not every immortal in FR is an undead abomination. Some of them get killed anyway, but it's not from old age.

There's the guy in Waterdeep who invented the Steal Life spell, he's still human iirc, but he hasn't been around that long. Still technically immortal as long as he has people to drain.
There's also Ioulaum (inventor of the epic spell Ioulaum's Longevity) who's been around since before Karsus' Folly, but he became an Elder Brain Lich later for whatever reason, so i'm not sure he counts.
Halastar Blackcloak is also probably immortal and still human. Completely insane, but afaik that's unrelated.
That's just from memory, i'm sure there are more.

Also every sufficiently high-leveled member of various PrCs like Heartwarder or Cloud Anchorite.

So...Murderous, undead abomination, insane lunatic are our options for immorality? I think I'll pass. And following Sune is a recipe for disaster, given her tendency to like pretty people and not ugly people. Not signing up for a religion I am going to get kicked out of after I take the bag off of my head.

[Vizzerdrix]

So...Murderous, undead abomination, insane lunatic are our options for immorality? I think I'll pass. And following Sune is a recipe for disaster, given her tendency to like pretty people and not ugly people. Not signing up for a religion I am going to get kicked out of after I take the bag off of my head.

You could always see if Gond warship will allow your laptop to keep working. :smallsmile:

[sleepyphoenixx]

So...Murderous, undead abomination, insane lunatic are our options for immorality? I think I'll pass. And following Sune is a recipe for disaster, given her tendency to like pretty people and not ugly people. Not signing up for a religion I am going to get kicked out of after I take the bag off of my head.
Well, the boring peaceful people don't stick in my memory. I'm sure there's a dude living peacefully in the forest for the last 2 millenia, but nobody writes about him because he doesn't do anything of interest.
There are more palatable options available, nobody is forcing you to go for the evil ones.

[Coidzor]

So...Murderous, undead abomination, insane lunatic are our options for immorality? I think I'll pass. And following Sune is a recipe for disaster, given her tendency to like pretty people and not ugly people. Not signing up for a religion I am going to get kicked out of after I take the bag off of my head.

Well, they do offer makeovers and beauty tips and help with dieting given the foods available in the area.

IIRC, some of her followers are blessed with being prettier than they would otherwise be.

My issue is that the best I could hope for is a deity that had similar ideals as me would claim me after death as they sometimes do, unless I'm misremembering. Wouldn't do anything to deliberately end up one of the False, but I couldn't believe in a god that I'd studied up on a gaming wiki to understand a forum argument better.

So I'd Best make sure I don't die, at least not without enough set aside with trustworthy parties to see me brought back before too long.

[Honest Tiefling]

Well, they do offer makeovers and beauty tips and help with dieting given the foods available in the area.

IIRC, some of her followers are blessed with being prettier than they would otherwise be.

She booted out a cleric for getting a bad*** scar on his otherwise handsome face. There's no way I'm not getting set on fire by them.

I get the feeling that Oghma, Gond and Waukeen would appeal to most people on this thread...

[atemu1234]

As to the immortality, sleeping forever is a type of immortality, right? I remember at least one Dragon Magazine PrC, Elder Druid or something?

[Hecuba]

Clearly a long term goal in the realms is taking over the mantle of Mystra and (after checking in with Ao) bringing some sense into the pantheon.

This seems like a really, phenomenally bad idea. Mystra/Mystery/Midnight aren't getting killed because they are off fooling around and being incompetent. They tend to die from doing their job.

The first one died because someone tried to take the Weave (what you are suggesting, though he was only after it temporarily) and broke the world in the process: she dried cleaning up his mess.

The second one died because Ao threw a hissy fit about some other gods stealing some tablets that didn't matter, so she got incarnated, then tortured for a while. Then she decided she wanted to go back to work trending the Weave, so she asked to talk to Ao, but Ao's bouncer killed her. As such, your plan for suggesting Ao change operating procedures may not be the safest.

The third time she dies, is because Shar worked to get her assassinated. Shar specifically wanted to do that because she has a beef against the Weave. So even if you do take over the Weave without causing a huge catastrophe and then convince Ao to be a better boss, you'll still have powerful beings that want to kill you because they dislike that the Weave exists.