Adventure's League question

[samduke]

Could any Adventure's League session be run as a PBP? if so has it been done here? and is there anyone that is running this?

[Arkhios]

I think people have been running AL on Roll20, so I don't see why not on forums.

[rooneg]

Could any Adventure's League session be run as a PBP? if so has it been done here? and is there anyone that is running this?

I don't see any reason you couldn't do it, although the fact that PBP sessions tend to be rather protracted might hamper players' ability to take their characters to other tables. You clearly can't play in another game with that character until the PBP game concludes, after all.

[Ursus the Grim]

Part of the problem is that a lot of stuff is linked to runtime (DM rewards, hardcover rewards, etc.) Its likely near-impossible to accurately track how long a session takes.

You also have to deal with minimum/maximum 'table size' and having characters drop mid-module is a problem.

[rooneg]

Part of the problem is that a lot of stuff is linked to runtime (DM rewards, hardcover rewards, etc.) Its likely near-impossible to accurately track how long a session takes.

You also have to deal with minimum/maximum 'table size' and having characters drop mid-module is a problem.

Runtime is more relevant with hardcover adventures than it is with the stand alone modules. All the DM rewards for stand alone adventures are based on the intended runtime (i.e. if you run DDAL05-05 it counts for 2 hours, no matter how long it actually takes to run).

Agreed that losing players mid-module can be an issue.

[mgshamster]

I regularly run AL Games by pbp. So yes, they can be. :smallsmile:

[rooneg]

I regularly run AL Games by pbp. So yes, they can be. :smallsmile:

Out of curiosity, where? I've never seen an AL PBP and I'd love to take a look at one.

[mgshamster]

Out of curiosity, where? I've never seen an AL PBP and I'd love to take a look at one.

There's three or four GMs (including myself) on the Paizo pbp forums who run AL Games. I go by AL DM, and I'm running Outlaws of the Iron Route. I'm also playing in Dues for the Dead.

All of us enforce a strict posting rate of once per 24 hours (if you don't post, you'll get skipped or botted)*. With this kind of schedule, we can get a 2 hour game done in about 3-4 weeks, and a 4 hour game done in about 5-7 weeks.

Since it's an online game, you get the online game credits for GMing, which is 2x the normal GM rewards.

*I was in one game where the DM didn't enforce this, and it dragged on. Took about three months to get through a 2 hour game.

[Woglin]

I've been running a play-by-post AL game using Discord text chat. The players are from different states in Australia, and we use the mobile app to play during downtime at work/lunchbreaks.
There's are some good bots that handle dice rolling, initiative tracking etc.

We've been treating each week as a single 2-hour 'session' on the logsheets. Seems to be working well so far. It took us a little under a month to finish chapter 10 of Storm Kings Thunder.

[Arkhios]

The question is less whether it can be done and more about how long it takes to finish a scenario, indeed.

When I was actively playing Pathfinder Society, I participated in several PbP scenarios. Unless AL scenarios are entirely different somehow (which I doubt) they should work really well in just about any format. It's obviously worthwhile to note that your character will be stuck in its current build throughout the however many weeks or months it takes to finish the scenario. Meaning you can't play with the same character in another game at the same time AND you cannot change its build mid-game (unless that's something AL allows, which, again, I doubt).

I know I'm echoing above posters with that, but I think it is very important to understand and can't be said too many times.

[Woglin]

Meaning you can't play with the same character in another game at the same time AND you cannot change its build mid-game (unless that's something AL allows, which, again, I doubt).

AL actually does let you play other games between sessions, including levelling up, gaining items, and rebuilding.
This can lead to some odd situations where a player gains a level in one adventure, and suddenly gets new abilities in the middle of another.

The details are in on page 14 of the most recent AL FAQ document. It assumes that the PbP game is divided into discrete sessions though (days, weeks etc.)

[Arkhios]

AL actually does let you play other games between sessions, including levelling up, gaining items, and rebuilding.
This can lead to some odd situations where a player gains a level in one adventure, and suddenly gets new abilities in the middle of another.

The details are in on page 14 of the most recent AL FAQ document. It assumes that the PbP game is divided into discrete sessions though (days, weeks etc.)

How does it work if the character dies between sessions and couldn't be brought back? Would the character fall in his/her tracks in the other game that instant or can it finish the scenario and then die?

I don't know, AL seems fiddly and frankly quite stupid compared to PFS.

[Woglin]

How does it work if the character dies and couldn't be brought back? Would his character fall to his/her tracks in the other game that instant or can it finish the scenario and then die?

Good question. It's not specifically addressed in the AL rules, but I'd assume that yes, you'd vanish from the other scenario.
Having said that, it's pretty hard to die in a way that you can't come back from in AL. Unless killed by something that specifically prevents it, the player can just use downtime and accumulated gp to pay the raise dead cost between sessions. They just sort of handwave the recovery of the body.

[Arkhios]

Good question. It's not specifically addressed in the AL rules, but I'd assume that yes, you'd vanish from the other scenario.
Having said that, it's pretty hard to die in a way that you can't come back from in AL. Unless killed by something that specifically prevents it, the player can just use downtime and accumulated gp to pay the raise dead cost between sessions. They just sort of handwave the recovery of the body.

Enter Shadow and strength damaged to oblivion :P

[mister__joshua]

I recently joined a pbp AL game over on Myth-weavers. It's been good so far and really well-run.

https://www.myth-weavers.com/game.php?g=27836

[Ursus the Grim]

Enter Shadow and strength damaged to oblivion :P

Or Disintegrate, or death before 1250 GP but after Faction Charity wears off, or Plane Shift or any other 'your character is gone' effects.

It happens, but yeah, technically your character can be in two places at once - it gets a little weird.

[rooneg]

Since it's an online game, you get the online game credits for GMing, which is 2x the normal GM rewards.

Sadly, that's no longer true. The season 6 DM Quests that came out this week changed Ethereal DM so that you now only get the double rewards if you're streaming and have the resulting game available as a video on demand. It's a terrible change and I have absolutely no idea how it would apply to PBP games.

[Arkhios]

Sadly, that's no longer true. The season 6 DM Quests that came out this week changed Ethereal DM so that you now only get the double rewards if you're streaming and have the resulting game available as a video on demand. It's a terrible change and I have absolutely no idea how it would apply to PBP games.

I'm going to give a guess here: You'll have to be able to provide whatever full logs you have for the whole PBP. In a forum format, It would be a lot easier than to have "the resulting game as a video". Just print the thread or whatever you have to do to get all the posts visible. I think you could ask the moderators for a list stripped off from the graphical layout, if you ask nicely.

...though I'd advise be rid of the official AL rules (because they are stupid) and just play the adventures. It's not like they could supervise every single one of you and prevent you from playing a game, especially if you've paid for the adventure. It might be their intellectual property prior you buy it, but after that, you have every right to do with it as you please. They can't take it away from you. Adventurer's league is free to play. they can't force you to do anything.

[Ursus the Grim]

...though I'd advise be rid of the official AL rules (because they are stupid) and just play the adventures. It's not like they could supervise every single one of you and prevent you from playing a game, especially if you've paid for the adventure. It might be their intellectual property prior you buy it, but after that, you have every right to do with it as you please. They can't take it away from you. Adventurer's league is free to play. they can't force you to do anything.

Sure, play a home game using AL Modules. But advertise it as Adventurer's League. Its deceptive and screws over people who actually prefer the Adventurer's League experience.

I've played in a lot of different venues thanks to the AL system, and I've also wasted a few weeks playing at locations that were running illegal AL games that I couldn't, in good faith, transfer my character from. Wizards isn't supervising every game (they even say it's reliant on the honor system), but players can and do report brick and mortar locations for this.

Its also really unfair for other players who have legitimate characters to play alongside those who don't. It may sound petty, but its a problem that comes up often at conventions.

[mgshamster]

Sadly, that's no longer true. The season 6 DM Quests that came out this week changed Ethereal DM so that you now only get the double rewards if you're streaming and have the resulting game available as a video on demand. It's a terrible change and I have absolutely no idea how it would apply to PBP games.

AL is built on the honor system. There's literally zero tracking or confirmation. Its just people being open and honest with each other before a game starts. I mean, you even control your own log sheet without submitting it anywhere.

A PBP has all records available online, so I'd just go with that.

[Ursus the Grim]

AL is built on the honor system. There's literally zero tracking or confirmation. Its just people being open and honest with each other before a game starts.

A PBP has all records available online, so I'd just go with that.

That's. . . uh, not what streaming entails.

[mgshamster]

That's. . . uh, not what streaming entails.

It's in the same spirit, which is the important part.

The point was for them to prevent people from just claiming, "I ran an online game, but there's no evidence of it."

[Ursus the Grim]

It's in the same spirit, which is the important part.

The point was for them to prevent people from just claiming, "I ran an online game, but there's no evidence of it."

:smallconfused:

[rooneg]

It's in the same spirit, which is the important part.

The point was for them to prevent people from just claiming, "I ran an online game, but there's no evidence of it."

I don't get that impression at all. The AL Admins are well aware that there's basically no evidence of any of this, if someone was going to claim Ethereal DM to double their XP when the game didn't actually happen they could just as easily claim to have run the adventure twice at home. There's the same no evidence there.

My understanding (based on talking to them on Facebook about it) is that they view streaming and VOD as the equivalent of public play, which they want to encourage because it's good advertising for the game. They don't see non-streaming/VOD online games as any different from private home games in that sense. Now I admit, this doesn't make sense to me, since it's not like they're giving this sort of bonus to public games in stores, but there you have it.

Personally, it's going to discourage me from running online games, since they're more of a hassle than running in-person games, but c'est la vie. I'll make up the XP deficit by running my private games as charitable events where every player donates $5 to the local food bank ;-)

As for applying it to PBP, if you think you're meeting the spirit of the rule then go for it. I'm not personally convinced that it's anywhere close to the same thing as streaming/VOD, but the only person you need to justify it to is yourself, AL works on the honor system.

[mgshamster]

I don't get that impression at all. The AL Admins are well aware that there's basically no evidence of any of this, if someone was going to claim Ethereal DM to double their XP when the game didn't actually happen they could just as easily claim to have run the adventure twice at home. There's the same no evidence there.

My understanding (based on talking to them on Facebook about it) is that they view streaming and VOD as the equivalent of public play, which they want to encourage because it's good advertising for the game. They don't see non-streaming/VOD online games as any different from private home games in that sense. Now I admit, this doesn't make sense to me, since it's not like they're giving this sort of bonus to public games in stores, but there you have it.

Personally, it's going to discourage me from running online games, since they're more of a hassle than running in-person games, but c'est la vie. I'll make up the XP deficit by running my private games as charitable events where every player donates $5 to the local food bank ;-)

As for applying it to PBP, if you think you're meeting the spirit of the rule then go for it. I'm not personally convinced that it's anywhere close to the same thing as streaming/VOD, but the only person you need to justify it to is yourself, AL works on the honor system.

I can see that. There is a bit if evidence showing that online streaming games is what has brought a lot of new players to the game. So they're likely encouraging that.

As for me, I started running AL PBP games before I knew DM Rewards were a thing. Not having it won't stop me from running more PBP games.

If you're just in it for the rewards, then there's no point in playing PBP - it's a lot of work for minimal gain. I'm in it for the enjoyment of the game, and it's the only way I can play more than one game a week.

I also enjoy the shorter single adventure format. I have issues with people not posting on a regular basis in longer games, so a quick and easy game let's me wrap it up before that's an issue.

[Ursus the Grim]

My understanding (based on talking to them on Facebook about it) is that they view streaming and VOD as the equivalent of public play, which they want to encourage because it's good advertising for the game. They don't see non-streaming/VOD online games as any different from private home games in that sense. Now I admit, this doesn't make sense to me, since it's not like they're giving this sort of bonus to public games in stores, but there you have it.

I think you hit the nail on the head here, rooneg.

Think of how many new players have come in because of Critical Role (and Stranger Things). Streaming is huge. Players on the GitP forums or keeping to themselves on Roll20 aren't really reaching out to new demographics (or helping to normalize the hobby.)

Many of the other DM Quests (Google+, Twitter, Facebook) are focused around providing free advertising for the product.

[rooneg]

I can see that. There is a bit if evidence showing that online streaming games is what has brought a lot of new players to the game. So they're likely encouraging that.

No argument there, I like that they're encouraging that, but the way they've gone about it seems unlikely to work. This is the setup they had for the season 4 quests, and few people streamed. All through season 5 few people streamed, despite adding the extra multiplier for just being online. Now they've removed that multiplier, so the total bonus for streaming is back to what you'd get in season 4, when it didn't move the needle on the number of people doing it. So their plan for encouraging streaming this season is to make the reward for streaming less than what you'd get for doing it last season, when few people did it. If they wanted to encourage streaming they should have upped the reward for doing it, not reduced it!


I also enjoy the shorter single adventure format. I have issues with people not posting on a regular basis in longer games, so a quick and easy game let's me wrap it up before that's an issue.

Yeah, I actually think the 2 hour adventures they did in season 5 were a huge win for online play. They were great for the sessions i ran online last season, start after my kid is in bed, finish in time to get to bed at a reasonable time. In practice they really took more like 3 hours to run when you take into account general player wrangling stuff that comes along with being online, but it was a great way to do it.