Rolled Crazy Stats - Looking for Build Advice

[zombiecurse]

Hi everyone,

I rolled crazy stats the other night and I'm excited to make my character. Only the second character I've ever made, and I think the stats I have give me a lot of options that I wouldn't normally have.

Stats were 18-17-17-17-15-15.

I want to play a wizard of some kind, most likely a Necromancer.

I'm currently looking at "something 2 / wizard 18." For the "2" I've been alternating between Paladin, some kind of Cleric (likely one with heavy armor), Warlock and Fighter. Two levels of paladin, with a shield and War Caster feat, I'd have a crazy high ac pretty early on. On the other hand, Warlock 2 / Wizard 18 just sounds cool.

Any thoughts/recommendations on this?

[PloxBox]

What race ate you looking to play as?

[zombiecurse]

Human or human variant. Which one is kinda dependent on what class I pick for the MC. Like, if I pick Fighter, I don't need to take Resilience - Constitution as a feat (because fighters innately have the proficiency in Constitution saves) and can afford to let the extra feat go and just pick regular human to boost all my ability scores up. If I picked Paladin for MC, I'd probably want to take Human Variant for the feat so I could fit Resilience - Constitution in there with War Caster and Tough.

[Sirdar]

I would turn it down and go for a normal point buy (if that still is an option). Do you really want to start with 19 or 20 in your main stat and 15 as your lowest? You will miss out on the machocist fun of yearning for higher stats!

But any MAD multiclass concept will be great to try with those stats. The world is your oyster! :-)

[PloxBox]

Oh, also: What level are you starting at?

[zombiecurse]

Oh, also: What level are you starting at?

Starting at level one. Playing Princes of the Apocalypse.

[Arcangel4774]

Look at the dmg's oathbreaker paladin. Multiclass so you can raise some dead and lead your undead army.

[Breashios]

Since you likely have the best stats by far, it might be kind of you to wait to choose until everyone else has picked their classes, especially if someone rolled poorly. The only class that might fit their rolls and interest might be exactly what you would choose.

With those scores you can go in any direction and still be awesome. If someone else felt the only interesting and useful build they had was a necromancer, you could still choose to be Wizard, but maybe go down another path, like abjuration. If no-one else had healing, you could look at several options that covered that - for instance: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Ranger or Paladin...My point is you have a lot of options. I think it will come down to what you are interested in playing and how that fits with the rest of the adventuring party.

[nickl_2000]

Go for a Moon Druid who spends all his time in Wild Shape. Pick the class that cares least about all their stats in general.


On a serious note, it would be a great build for an EK or Arcane trickster since you will be able to pound your primary class and still have an incredibly spell DC

[Specter]

Well, with those stats it's hard to go wrong. The best 2 level dips for your situation would be Fighter, Paladin or Cleric (Life/Nature). Here are the advantages of each:

Fighter: CON saves, heavy armor, all good weapons, fighting style (defense is probably the best), second wind (around 7HP every rest) and action surge, because one spell a turn is lame.

Paladin: heavy armor, all good weapons, fighting style (defense is probably the best), lay on hands (10HP every day), some decent spells like Bless and Cure Wounds and divine smite. If you go Paladin, you clearly want to focus on melee attacking to take advantage of it.

Cleric: good spells like pally and Turn Undead. I chose the domains based on heavy armor proficiency and being thematic with necromancy:
- Nature: one druid cantrip, one skill, two situational (but flavorful) spells and repelling animals and plants.
- Life: healing and more healing. Why not?

[Hobbo Jim]

Personally with that kind of stat roll, assuming you're far better of than others, I would have fun playing a Bard. Your skills will be incredible, and with the right personality behind it you can the guy that's just too cool for the party being outstandingly useful, but as a mainly support class you could still give others their time to shine.

[zombiecurse]

Well, with those stats it's hard to go wrong. The best 2 level dips for your situation would be Fighter, Paladin or Cleric (Life/Nature). Here are the advantages of each:

Fighter: CON saves, heavy armor, all good weapons, fighting style (defense is probably the best), second wind (around 7HP every rest) and action surge, because one spell a turn is lame.

Paladin: heavy armor, all good weapons, fighting style (defense is probably the best), lay on hands (10HP every day), some decent spells like Bless and Cure Wounds and divine smite. If you go Paladin, you clearly want to focus on melee attacking to take advantage of it.

Cleric: good spells like pally and Turn Undead. I chose the domains based on heavy armor proficiency and being thematic with necromancy:
- Nature: one druid cantrip, one skill, two situational (but flavorful) spells and repelling animals and plants.
- Life: healing and more healing. Why not?

So if I was to go human variant as a Paladin, I would go:

Int - 18
Cha - 17 + 1 (human variant)
Str - 17 + 1 (human variant)
Con - 17 + 1 (Resilience - Constitution)
Wis - 15
Dex - 15

That lets me focus on melee for the first few levels, and I can pick up Tough at level six. I can pick up War Caster at level 11, around the time I start getting some pretty serious concentration spells as a wizard. Start concentrating on undead armies around this time, and if we make it far enough, I can also grab Lucky and then finally dump a +2 into Int or Cha. I don't think it will matter at that point, as a +2 to Int would only really let me prepare one more spell, and a +2 to Cha would just bump up my social skill checks (and how often I can use Divine Sense, I guess....).

I think this will work.

[D.U.P.A.]

Wood elf Monk and you will have more armor than heavily armored guys in the party :)

[McNinja]

Since you likely have the best stats by far, it might be kind of you to wait to choose until everyone else has picked their classes, especially if someone rolled poorly. The only class that might fit their rolls and interest might be exactly what you would choose.

With those scores you can go in any direction and still be awesome. If someone else felt the only interesting and useful build they had was a necromancer, you could still choose to be Wizard, but maybe go down another path, like abjuration. If no-one else had healing, you could look at several options that covered that - for instance: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Ranger or Paladin...My point is you have a lot of options. I think it will come down to what you are interested in playing and how that fits with the rest of the adventuring party.I heavily advise this.

Allowing others to roll and choose first, then filling in the gaps, would make for a much more optimized group. With such incredible stats, you could easily outshine everyone as a martial or caster.

[Silfazaris]

From my point of view Oathbreaker Paladin would be very very nice with a Necromancer.
You can make a nice background to be a vengeance paladin with necromancer focus, yes, but still, Oathbreaker wins in terms of flavour with Necromancer levels in my opinion.

You clearly sounds like you want heavy armor, so you are bound to Fighter, Paladin or Cleric with a domain that grants heavy armor proficiency (unless you are willing to get a medium armor class and get heavy armor feat, which I don't think you are not).
In matters of flavour and background, the Oathbreaker Paladin/Necromancer would be very very nice.

If your party doesn't have a cleric, you would make a bit of cleric's role by casting cure wounds with high level slots, but that's it. I think you guys would still need a cleric or a bard. So if your group has a bard or cleric, I'd make either a Paladin or Fighter.

As a Paladin you would need to spend a feat to have Resilient (Con), but, you would be able to turn your necromancer into a fearsome caster who raises undead and that can deal high amounts of damage via Divine Smite. You can be an arcane caster, you can cast cure wounds and you can be a melee, it's just badass! (with one attack per round only though)
As a fighter you would get Action Surge once per short rest with some maneveurs (maybe).

But in my opinion, what is a double action once per short rest compared to the ability of smiting enemies with +5d8 damage? I'd stick with a kind of "Scythe" :D

Yes, sometimes Action Surge could save the day, but I prefer more consistant features than things like "1/day" or "1/rest".

____________

Have you considered making a Paladin 2/Sorcerer 18? You could have gained your sorcerer capabilities through an undead being (just like the Undying Patron for warlocks).
You could use the flavour from D&D 3.5 to state your sorcerer gained spells because of his connection to the Undeath (like we had Fey Heritage, Celestial and Fiendish Heritage in 3.5). He would still be a "necromancer". You could use your sorcery points to cast quickened spells and then do a melee attack with divine smite. Let's say on high levels
you spend one 3rd-level slot and one 4th-level slot. The 3rd-level slot would be used to cast fireball and the 4th-level slot for a smite (in case you hit). The would deal 8d6 in area + damage of your weapon + Str mod + 5d8. And that's on the same turn. Sounds awesome to me!
In terms of background you could choose the Dragon Origins featuring a Dragon Lich. Background can always be talked about. But the build sounds nice to me with your stats.
Also, if you are using heavy armor, put your 15 into dexterity.

But if you really want to help your party, do like the others said above. Wait for them to make their characters and then create a character to fill the gaps. A bard would be a master of skills with those stats, a rogue too.
Anyway, I'd definetely make a multiclass character with those stats.

Congrats for the rolls!

[Herobizkit]

I'd suggest rolling Mountain Dwarf, beefing your Con and Str as high as they'll go.

Forget multi-classing. You'll get Medium Armor and some decent melee weapons, and start working as a Wizard right out the gate.

Challenge anyone who dares face you. 10 (11?) HP at level 1 isn't too bad for a Wizard, and NO ONE will believe you're a Necromancer. :)

[Prophes0r]

I'll just leave this here...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?520254-Having-FUN-with-Opportunity-Attacks-Let-s-build-a-Ranger

[Chunkosaurus]

I would say monk as you could build an amazing monk all around that can grapple really well will have amazing unarmored defenses early. Your stunning strike DC will be fantastic and all your saves will be decent. You will be a hoss

Alternatively I would recommend Eldritch Knight as you can alternate between ranged and melee with almost no tradeoff and do both strength and dex. Your save DC will be amazing so control spells will be fantastic for you. You have almost no need of ASIs so you can go feat crazy and take sharpshooter, polearm master, Warcaster, and gwm easily. You will be so utterly frightening.

[zombiecurse]

I heavily advise this.

Allowing others to roll and choose first, then filling in the gaps, would make for a much more optimized group. With such incredible stats, you could easily outshine everyone as a martial or caster.

Been giving this some consideration, this seems to make a lot of sense. We currently have three players. My one buddy is going Rogue/Shadow Monk, and the other guy is going Life Cleric. So the plan is for the Life Cleric to tank and heal, the Rogue/Shadow Monk to do his backstabby shadowstep thing. Given that we have healing, tanking and melee covered, Warlock / Wizard sounds like fun. I could go Warlock 2 and would get my 9th lvl Wizard spells a little earlier, and would also get Spell Mastery. Alternately, I could go Warlock 3 and pick up a Quasit or Imp as a pet. Pact of the Chain Warlock 3 / Necromancer sounds like a great "Dark Mage" sort of build. Throw in Magic Circle, some of the demon summoning spells from Unearthed Arcana, and eventually Planar Binding, and you've got yourself a pretty solid Diabolist.

[Citan]

Hi everyone,

I rolled crazy stats the other night and I'm excited to make my character. Only the second character I've ever made, and I think the stats I have give me a lot of options that I wouldn't normally have.

Stats were 18-17-17-17-15-15.

I want to play a wizard of some kind, most likely a Necromancer.

I'm currently looking at "something 2 / wizard 18." For the "2" I've been alternating between Paladin, some kind of Cleric (likely one with heavy armor), Warlock and Fighter. Two levels of paladin, with a shield and War Caster feat, I'd have a crazy high ac pretty early on. On the other hand, Warlock 2 / Wizard 18 just sounds cool.

Any thoughts/recommendations on this?
Wow. This is borderline cheating. XD

Frankly, in your place, I'd take the golden chance to play one of the best, MADest multiclass there may be.

Go Human (you know, the NORMAL one XD) and be a Vengeance Paladin 6 / Monk 14 (any will be great, although 4E -for burning everyone- and Long Death - because of Fear- would be great thematically).

You get +4 in all saves (18 CHA) + proficiency in the end. Paladin's CD will do good with your unarmed strikes too, and you can Bless yourself.


Granted though, this is a "capstone build".

For a MAD but early online build, check...
Fighter 1 / Bladesinger Wizard 2 / Undying Light Fiend Warlock 1
Fighter for Constitution proficiency, Bladesinger for bonus to AC and cantrips, Undying Light Fiend Warlock for bonus to radiant/fire damage. You get a pretty powerful cantrip attack from the get go.
Then you can either build on weapon attacks (go up Fighter), build on weapon cantrip (take Draconic/Storm Sorcerer or Tempest Cleric depending on damage type)...
Or stack even more different classes (Rogue for bonus action mobility, Monk for defensive bonus actions and Stunning Strike, Barbarian for extra damage and resistance, etc).





Oathbreaker Paladin 2 (>>> 7), Evoker Wizard 2 (>>> 10) or Arcana Cleric up to 8, Undying Light Fiend Warlock 1.
Idea here is to gang up on Green Flame Blade for mundane turns and either Divine Smite or Fire spells for nova.
If you don't care about Paladin features beyond 5,
you can make a pretty fearful flame striker:
Paladin 3 / Draconic Sorcerer 6 / Undying Light Warlock 1 / Evoker Wizard 7 (Fire Shield, Elemental Bane) / you still have 3 levels to get either Swashbuckler Rogue (initiative + disengage + Cunning Action) or Battlemaster 3 (Action Surge, Precision), or War Cleric (Divine Strike + Spiritual Weapon).




Simple idea.
Take 2 levels of Bladesinger
Take 7 levels of Ancients Paladin.
Take one/two levels of every other class to get some nice features and cantrips.

You are the ONE that teaches cantrips to every spellcaster outthere, either of divine or arcanic origin. ;)

[Breashios]

...[one] Rogue/Shadow Monk, and the other guy is going Life Cleric. So the plan is for the Life Cleric to tank and heal, the Rogue/Shadow Monk to do his backstabby shadowstep thing. ...

With that party makeup, I think you'll be fine going necromancy wizard, maybe all the way. The sooner you can get dead bodies standing in the way, the better off your Life Cleric buddy will be. I think tanking a Cleric is fine, but if you don't also have some healing potions or a good supply of healing kits, you may find that having the cleric in the front line hurts more than you'd expect.

The "party plan" might put a lot of stress on that Life Cleric in combat situations or leave your character vulnerable. Outside of healing, a lot of the cleric's best spells are concentration based, though maybe not as necessary with your party design. Not sure. Hope this input helps.

I haven't played in a small team group, so my practical experience here doesn't come into play. But it seems to me you need strong synergies and a common combat strategy to be successful with a three man team. Maybe everyone is good at stealth or all are reasonable at tanking to avoid the challenge of a weak link. Of course those worries are also campaign dependent. What does the DM have in store for you? Good luck.

[zombiecurse]

With that party makeup, I think you'll be fine going necromancy wizard, maybe all the way. The sooner you can get dead bodies standing in the way, the better off your Life Cleric buddy will be. I think tanking a Cleric is fine, but if you don't also have some healing potions or a good supply of healing kits, you may find that having the cleric in the front line hurts more than you'd expect.

The "party plan" might put a lot of stress on that Life Cleric in combat situations or leave your character vulnerable. Outside of healing, a lot of the cleric's best spells are concentration based, though maybe not as necessary with your party design. Not sure. Hope this input helps.

I haven't played in a small team group, so my practical experience here doesn't come into play. But it seems to me you need strong synergies and a common combat strategy to be successful with a three man team. Maybe everyone is good at stealth or all are reasonable at tanking to avoid the challenge of a weak link. Of course those worries are also campaign dependent. What does the DM have in store for you? Good luck.

We're doing Princes of the Apocalypse. I think our DM will be pretty good for fitting stuff to our challenge level.

[Citan]

Been giving this some consideration, this seems to make a lot of sense. We currently have three players. My one buddy is going Rogue/Shadow Monk, and the other guy is going Life Cleric. So the plan is for the Life Cleric to tank and heal, the Rogue/Shadow Monk to do his backstabby shadowstep thing. Given that we have healing, tanking and melee covered, Warlock / Wizard sounds like fun. I could go Warlock 2 and would get my 9th lvl Wizard spells a little earlier, and would also get Spell Mastery. Alternately, I could go Warlock 3 and pick up a Quasit or Imp as a pet. Pact of the Chain Warlock 3 / Necromancer sounds like a great "Dark Mage" sort of build. Throw in Magic Circle, some of the demon summoning spells from Unearthed Arcana, and eventually Planar Binding, and you've got yourself a pretty solid Diabolist.
As we all said, you will be great whatever build you go with.
So I'd say pick the concept first, make it as wild as possible, since you can multiclass everywhere anyways.

Also, know that any of the following will be enough to make you already as good as single-classes...

Casters
Weapon cantrips
Agonizing Blast
Shillelagh

Martials
Divine Smite with more slots

If you want to be the "Luck Bender", you could easily go Diviner Wizard / Wild Magic Sorcerer with Lucky feat stacked on top of it. :)

The Monk 14 / Paladin 6 I suggested would also be great with you. :)

If you want to be a fullcaster though, your Warlock 2 / Wizard 18 is the best. You really don't want to blow the chance to get free 1st/2nd level spell even if it is to get magic resistance of familiar.
At least if you know you actually have a chance to reach that level. Otherwise, embrace the dip light-hearted :)

[djreynolds]

Bladesinger 14/ paladin 6 would be cool if you were going 20 levels

Start baldesinger till 5th, grab 2 paladin, and then take bladesinger to 14 and finish paladin or take that paladin to 6th and then finish bladesinger

I am envious, enjoy

[joaber]

Using UA, warlock hexblade 5/mystic wu jen 15
I would go as normal human to get stats: 19-18-18-18-16-16

Str: 19
Dex 16
Con 18
Int 18
Wis 16
Cha 18

grab great weapon master and heavily armored (str go to 20) feats later, max Con and get tougth feat (more HP for Consumptive Power).
You can easily use medium armor until get the feat.

curse bringer, extra attack and agonizing blast, good in melee and in ranged.
wu jen 6 let you create spellslots with psi points, so you can get many 5th spellslots for curse bringer.
Strength of Mind change your Wis ST to Con.
Elemental Mastery with armor of agathys is really nice, 2 pp for imunity until end of next turn, 25 damage each time an enemy hit you with a melee attack
and there is too many nice disciplines.

[zombiecurse]

As we all said, you will be great whatever build you go with.
So I'd say pick the concept first, make it as wild as possible, since you can multiclass everywhere anyways.

Also, know that any of the following will be enough to make you already as good as single-classes...

Casters
Weapon cantrips
Agonizing Blast
Shillelagh

Martials
Divine Smite with more slots

If you want to be the "Luck Bender", you could easily go Diviner Wizard / Wild Magic Sorcerer with Lucky feat stacked on top of it. :)

The Monk 14 / Paladin 6 I suggested would also be great with you. :)

If you want to be a fullcaster though, your Warlock 2 / Wizard 18 is the best. You really don't want to blow the chance to get free 1st/2nd level spell even if it is to get magic resistance of familiar.
At least if you know you actually have a chance to reach that level. Otherwise, embrace the dip light-hearted :)

I'm going to be taking Agonizing Blast and Misty Visions for my invocations. I know most people would say Devil's Sight, but I really like how creative you can get with Silent Image, and it served me really well when I was just using it through spell slots in my last campaign.

Looking at the 1st and 2nd level spell lists, there are some definite good choices for Spell Mastery, either from a flavour perspective or a practical perspective:


Mirror Image (2nd lvl)
Hold Person (2nd lvl)
Suggestion (2nd lvl)
Misty Step (2nd lvl)
Detect Thoughts (2nd lvl)
Invisibility (2nd lvl)
Shield (1st lvl)
Detect Magic (1st lvl)
Charm Person (1st lvl)


I guess it's just weighing how often I'm going to be using any of these spells for something critical at lvl 20, if we get there. If I go three levels Warlock, I'll still have those two 2nd level spell slots that regenerate on a short rest, which can be used for any of the spells I listed above.

Going 2 Warlock / 18 Wizard would also give me a a third 5th lvl wizard spell slot at at 20th level, which is something to consider.

[N810]

Regular human (+1 to everything)
con19
dex 18
str 18
int 18
wiz16
cha 16

Then multiclass barbarian/monk/wizard/rogue,
for crazy MAD character. :P