OOTS #478 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is (finally) up.

I'm going to try to get some more comics (i.e. more than 3) up next week to catch up on this week's drought, if everything works out. No promises, naturally.

[Atheist_Cleric]

Great comic, Redcloak is once again kicking ass through summons and V has finally resurfaced...although I would have preferred a more imposing return. Oh well :smalltongue:

[Wolfman42666]

woo :vaarsuvius: is still alive and combined with elan is actually useful!:smallbiggrin: hope haley and belkar get there in time to help

[Emperor Ing]

:smalleek: the new one is made under my nose! i feel so stupid, yet so normal!

[Hackman]

Yay, V is back and Elan is not being use-impaired! Oh the happiness!

[Taghor]

yippie V is back ;)

[Drascin]

Well, when life gives you bards, you make illusions, right?

[Eldred]

Woo! V is alright! :smallsmile:

That comic appeared right under my nose and I didn't even realise!

[Stormwolf]

Heh a giant octopus is playing with Hinjo's junk :smallwink: Nice to see V back in the frame too

[NeonRonin]

Yes! We have a V, and just when we needed one, too. (Okay, so maybe it is a spell-less V, but a V in a tutoring position with Elan as the actual caster is still pretty sweet.)

Liked the rendition of the celestial lion- and in Azure City colors, too.

Now if someone or something could spontaneously Haste Haley and Belkar, then we'd be on to something. But I don't see that happening, so I'll just hope for whatever it is Rich has up his sleeve.

Good job as usual; this strip was well worth the wait.

[Elderac]

Great strip. Yah! V is back. At least V was honest about being on the junk.

At least it isn't a kraken attacking the junk.

Regardless, I think Belkar made a pretty fair assessment of their current condition.

Might Elan actually be able to save the day? "I'm participating!"

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Nice one! And to think I just grumbled that V hasn't had any character development!

S/he is using hir intellegence to help Elan get rid of the hobbos, instead of either blasting them to bits (at full power) or calling hir attorney!

But I think my theory form earlier is going to end up coming true...

The team is about to end up split, with Hinjo (Muscle), Vaarsuvious (Magic), Durkon (Cleric Magic) and Elan (Support/Mixed Bag) forming one team, while Roy (Muscle, if a spell can be found), Haley (Rogue), Belkar (Backup Muscle) and Celia (Magic) forming the second team.

This might be good, or amazingly frustrating. "Goblins, Life Through Their Eyes" is an amazingly good comic, but right now there are two battles going on, with Thunt (the artist) switching back and forth between the two. I love the strip, but somedays I wish I didn't have internet access for a month or so...

[Wiggle]

Whew - :vaarsuvius:'s back!

Whew - Rich's back too!

My favourite part of this comic is actually the artwork of the huddled masses and the simplicity of :vaarsuvius: trying to hide but being a different colour.

Excellent return to form Rich

:smallcool:

[Overdose]

Nice Comic,caught me by surprise,was not expeting one up.

Pops for V being honest and extra Pops for Elan be useful

[Silverpearl]

:smallbiggrin: Heh....Kalamari...
I am so glad that Elan is getting so useful, shows what a good woman does for a man!

[Klinnei]

Loved it! :smallsmile:

[battleburn]

Fool, fool, fool, fool the stupid hobgoblins!

I luv this one. Worth the wait

[Jukashi]

Excellent! *guitar*

[Ink]

Hey, neat. Vaarsuvius is back. And playing mentor to Elan too.

Mmm, calamari...

[ferganam]

With Elan having quite a few levels of bard, he should know more a good number more spells than just one illusion and be able to cast many more times this day. It is just that him being Elan makes him not realize how much power he actually has. With V's guidance, Elan is a virtually untapped source of usable arcane power. Those hobbos are really in for it.

The drawback is that Redcloak is there, and he will be unstoppable or just un-killable. If not for his presence, it would be a whole lot more justifiable that the defenders of the junk win this battle and allow Elan (with his unused spells), V and the others to go out and retrieve Haley, Belkar and Roy.

Elan scares off all of the hobbos with his spells. Redcloak, seeing his army retreat, either retreats with them or is captured. The heroes can exchange a captured Redcloak for O-Chul later in a prisoner swap.
Of course, buy that time, O-Chul would have been turned to the Dark Side and actually be a mole within the heroic organization upon his return.
Or quite the opposite, perhaps. Redcloak is turned and becomes a heroic mole.
Nah. Redcloak retreats and rejoins Xykon. Haley & others make it to the junk. The fugitives evacuate to Cliffport to plan retaking AC. O-chul enjoys tea and stew.

[PirateMonk]

What ^ said. They can't really win with Redcloak there.

Also, why the :smallfrown: ? Are the thread smileys just random, or does it have some meaning?

[ferganam]

And one good grease spell on the dock, and Elan saves the day. At least as far as the hobbos are concerned.

Even if the grease spell gets dispelled by Redcloak, Elan is a spontaneous caster, he can just keep recasting it.

Also, V telling Elan about his circumstance bonuses on the illusion is hilarious.

[NotNale]

Great Strip!

Not sure why it's a double, but I'm not complaining. Elan with V is actually effective, but there are still a lot of hobbos on the dock. What I want to know is why Hinjo hasn't set his junk free at this point. Is he waiting for everyone to evacuate? for the oots?

[Sylian]

Another piece of evidence that V isn't good.

Nice with Elan turning the other way and thus hiding the scratch!

[Cifer]

It's funny how V never explained to Elan how his illusions might be working better before. Oh, and it's equally funny how V attempts to dodge Elan's not-even-made accusations.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I wonder if V will get any new ideas for evards tentacles, seeing an octopus grab hinjos junk.

[Gnome King]

Glee!, That is all.

[Freelance Henchman]

And so Elan's apprenticeship to V begins... soon they will be known as the mighty Arcane Duo(tm)!

"A new team is here to bring back justice to the streets"
"Half wizard - half bard - ALL HERO"

[IlanaAeryn]

:elan: "If I let myself get hung up on doing things that had any actual chance of success, I'd never do anything." Know how you feel, man.

Is it just my imagination, or is Lien hitting the octopus with a broom-like object in panel 4? Goofy.

Oh, no, that's her spear. The 'pus just bleeds green.

Great strip, Giant. Hope you're well, and we look forward to the next strips.

Ilana

[Inigo Montoya]

Ahem......

V's alive!:vaarsuvius: Elan's useful!:elan: YAY!!!

Anyway, did anyone else notice what Elan called Durkon? Classic.

[IlanaAeryn]

Anyway, did anyone else notice what Elan called Durkon? Classic.

.... yes, he called him skipper. (4:3) I just don't follow why that's "Classic."

[VariaVespasa]

Y'know, I *really* have to read up on bards to see what they can do in 3.5 sometime... :P

[Bendal]

Wow V+Elan is actually an effective combination! She tells him how to create an illusion to get the most effect from it, and he still has lots of spell slots available (assuming he's high enough to cast 3rd-4th level spells).

Now to get that octopus to let go of Hinjo's junk...

[Derivious]

Ahem......

V's alive!:vaarsuvius: Elan's useful!:elan: YAY!!!

Anyway, did anyone else notice what Elan called Durkon? Classic.

Ever since Elan became a Dashing Swordsman, he's become very useful.

Awesome beginning and ending.

[Welf]

Geh... finally my needed dosis of OotS. I really considered having a live. Praise Thor that this madness of mine is over.

[warmachine]

Elan is better at illusions than he thinks.

[Xenon]

huzzah!

love the celestial lion bit.

hey! save me some of that sushi! octopus is delicious. i must therefore asume that devilsfood octopus sushi is even better

[caranha]

Neat! :-)

Very nice comic.

I wonder what Hinjo wanted Durkon for.

[Alfryd]

New comic is (finally) up.
The hobs really need to put some ranks in Listen.
Continue.


Wow V+Elan is actually an effective combination!
I've been saying Elan should get hisself a headband of intellect.

I'm going to try to get some more comics (i.e. more than 3) up next week to catch up on this week's drought, if everything works out. No promises, naturally.
In that case, it might be best just to leave it as a surprise.

[Ezlo]

Nice comic as always. Glad to see V back in the picture.

[Daimbert]

.... yes, he called him skipper. (4:3) I just don't follow why that's "Classic."

It's probably a "Gilligan's Island" reference. If it is, it would have worked better between Elan and Roy.

[AtomicKitKat]

Whee. V is finally taking Elan under his win(g)!:smallbiggrin:


Now to get that octopus to let go of Hinjo's junk...

Wait, when did this become Order of the H(I mean, beyond the whole Blue Young Female unintended coincidence)?:smalltongue:

[Siwenna]

Yay, V's back!


Elan is capable of better illusions than he thinks 0of.

Fixed it for you :smallwink:

[Lissou]

Great strip(s).
It's a bit weird that Belkar seems to worry about the others at the beginning, but I guess it would be simpler for him if they were not in trouble.

Also, glad to see V back, and the V-Elan team is great ^^.

And as far as I am concerned, you're not late in your comics, Giant. You post a lot of double and triple ones, which makes you... er... early? So don't worry about that.

[Inigo Montoya]

It's probably a "Gilligan's Island" reference. If it is, it would have worked better between Elan and Roy.

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale...:smalltongue: That scene is a bit funnier if Gilligan's Island is on in the background while you read the comic.

[lord_khaine]

ahh, that celestrial lion looks awesome with the halo :smallsmile:

[carais]

And so we see - a wizard may run out of spells, but still hir knowledge and intellect can be used as deadly (or at least scary) weapons :)

[RelentlessImp]

Huzzah for Vaarsuvius' somewhat triumphant return! May I just say I enjoyed this comic the most out of the last two weeks' worth?

Vaarsuvius returns and, completely contradictory to his/her previous actions regarding Elan's "wizardry" (in 126 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0126.html) and 127 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html)), begins teaching Elan how to make his illusions more effective. I say contradictory because, unlike previous comics when Elan's magic was touched upon, Vaarsuvius has made it out to be far inferior and unworthy of attention. Now he/she is actually instructing Elan to be more effective!

Uh. Yeah. Bit more than I wanted to say. I love it! And don't go pushing yourself beyond your limits, Giant. We luv ya!

Oh yeah...

The OotS shall dine on calamari this eve! TONIGHT, WE DINE IN SEA-HELL!

[Tirian]

Elan and V supporting each other FTW.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Uh, oh... Didn't someone say that it was a three hour trip to where the nobles had their fleet? :smalleek:

Now (the tall and thin) Elan is calling (the shorter and fatter) Durkon "skipper?" Gilligan and the Skipper?

Daigo and Kazumi ?=? Mr. and Mrs. Howell?

Vaarsuvious ?=? The Professor?

Hinjo and Lien ?=? Ginger and Mary Ann?

Nah... I'm probably reading too much into it... :smallbiggrin:

[Omega]

Well if I was V and(having a little fighter skill added with skill points), while I was invisible I would has took a Hobbo's longsword and killed a few before I got to the ship. Then at the ship while under attack I would have helped fight back some of the Hobbos. But, hey, that's just me! :smallcool:

[Accountant]

Vaarsuvius!

[TroyXavier]

It was a long time coming, but well worth the wait. I love it when V and Elan work together.

[Mad Scientist]

Gotta love the giant fiendish octopus! Redcloak is now my favorite villian ever.

[Dinkyass]

Oh no!! Haley and Belkar are about to reach the ship!! They're about to leave Azure city!! This can only mean one thing....

THE END OF THE STORY ARC IS NIGH!!!! THE TEMPORARY HIATUS IS UPON US!!

*Books 2 week stay at the looney bin*

[Laman_Stahros]

Well if I was V and(having a little fighter skill added with skill points), while I was invisible I would has took a Hobbo's longsword and killed a few before I got to the ship. Then at the ship while under attack I would have helped fight back some of the Hobbos. But, hey, that's just me! :smallcool:

Attacking anything would have broken the Invisibility spell. That wouldn't have been a good thing at all.

[Pantler]

Woo! Kazumi and Daigo are full-fledged characters now, and Elan is useful, and V has admitted to doing something wrong! Three-an-a-half kinds of awesome :smallbiggrin:

[LM TR]

hope the paladins will buy a farm, once they should encounter Redcloak, and leave the space to the more interesting people

[TheKnifeofTrust]

FINALLY, V is back. Nuff' Said.

[Bramble]

V has tutored Elan on his illusions before (see 217 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0217.html)) But being Elan, he probaby doesn't retain info very well.

[Dervag]

This is a very entertaining variant on the old saw "those who can, do; those who can't, teach."

[Ganurath]

Seeing as to how many of the different awesomes have been pointed out in this strip (at least a half dozen) I have one good thing and one joke-scolding to say: Awesome points for Redcloak for establishing dominance, so to speak. However, what was Elan thinking running through a crowd of commoners with his +3 Keen Rapier pointed forward? (Rhetorical!)

[Tirian]

Well if I was V and(having a little fighter skill added with skill points), while I was invisible I would has took a Hobbo's longsword and killed a few before I got to the ship. Then at the ship while under attack I would have helped fight back some of the Hobbos. But, hey, that's just me! :smallcool:

You're the keeper of a thousand arcane secrets. The universe practically demands that you be alive tomorrow morning, when your mystic energies will be renewed. Risking your life and your knowledge base to kill a hobgoblin here and save a townsperson there is absurd.

Let's keep in mind that, despite V's defeated mood, all of these townspeople are alive and heading towards a seaworthy ship because V held the breach in the south wall against ten thousand invaders, elementals, and a death knight. Any PC deserves credit for a full day's work with results like those.

[Daimbert]

Uh, oh... Didn't someone say that it was a three hour trip to where the nobles had their fleet? :smalleek:

Now (the tall and thin) Elan is calling (the shorter and fatter) Durkon "skipper?" Gilligan and the Skipper?

Wasn't the Skipper as tall as or taller than Gilligan?

That's why I said that it would have worked better with Roy, since Gilligan had the kind of hero worship thing happening with the Skipper, but all he ended up doing was annoying the Skipper to no end.


Daigo and Kazumi ?=? Mr. and Mrs. Howell?

Or Hinjo and Lien?


Vaarsuvious ?=? The Professor?


Hinjo and Lien ?=? Ginger and Mary Ann?

Or Haley and Kazumi?


Nah... I'm probably reading too much into it... :smallbiggrin:

If the weather starts getting rough and the surprisingly large and wide junk gets tossed ...

[Bronwen]

Yay! I was getting concerned about where V might be.

Elan is really starting to come into his own!

[Swashbuckler]

... AND THERE WAS GREAT REJOICING! (yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.)

Glad to see the new comic up, and glad to find out where V disappeared to ... er, re-appeared to ... er ... yeah. Now if some of that ed-juh-mah-kay-shun would just sink into Elan's skull on a permanent basis. I know, I know. I ask the impossible. :biggrin:

[Ivellios]

Goody.

V's back.

It seems strange to me that V wouldn't have some sort of scroll/wand/spell potion on him/her though.

[bosssmiley]

Worth the wait Mr Rich. Totally worth the wait.

I'm not normally a big Elan fan, but his sheer faith in Vaarsuvius and (the late) Roy was a particularly affecting element of this strip.

Also liked the faceless masses of un-named NPCs. Nice job of combining an artistic dodge with a D&D trope: classic Burlew. :smallsmile:

[SteveMB]

It's funny how V never explained to Elan how his illusions might be working better before. Oh, and it's equally funny how V attempts to dodge Elan's not-even-made accusations.

I think V feels a certain amount of guilt over bugging out, even though it was the sensible thing to do under the circumstances.

[Hushdawg]

I always love V giving Elan lessons in magic use it's so cool after the whole episode where Elan wanted to be a wizard. I think they had a good bonding experience.

I also love Elan's encouragement toward V to get in the battle and make it work.

[Bucephalus]

nice comic! i would agree that V was slightly ashamed of hiding among the refugees, but she made Elan useful, yay!

[Porthos]

Goody.

V's back.

It seems strange to me that V wouldn't have some sort of scroll/wand/spell potion on him/her though.

V used them all up in the battle. :smallsmile:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html

[O.T.R]

At last, we're back to the boat. Great comic.

I'll bet $20 on Redcloak snuffing it before this story arc ends

[TheoCryst]

Let it just be known, for the record, that I called V's method of return to the strip.

Also, great comic! Gotta love Elan being useful!

[North]

I dunno I dont see Redcloak dying quite yet...

But then again since he has grown as a char (Caring about the Hobs) I guess that does make him more vulnerable..

[Eldpollard]

Hurray V is back. It's been a long time. Shame he's totally useless spell wise at the moment.

[PaladinFreak]

Yay! V returns!

Also, we have an classic V moment. Anyone else seeing shades of #66 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0066.html)?

[Querzis]

I dunno I dont see Redcloak dying quite yet...

But then again since he has grown as a char (Caring about the Hobs) I guess that does make him more vulnerable..

Redcloak as almost no spell left, he cant win against Durkon right now and even less against Durkon with Hinjo and Lien. But even if he die they probably wont realize that his amulet his Xykon phylactery so Xykon is just gonna raise him and it wont change anything.

[Solara]

Awww, V and Elan make such a great team, it gives me the warm fuzzies. :smallsmile:

Great comic all around, and I thought the NPC/PC joke was especially clever, the way the 'huddled masses' were this indistinct blur that made a main character stick out like a sore thumb. A sore thumb that even Elan was able to notice...

EDIT: Oh, and Giant, no worries about it being late or making up for the missed comics. Remember, you're supposed to be taking it easy. Rushing to do a bunch of extra ones this coming week would kind of stressful and defeat the whole purpose of this updating randomly thing, don't you think? I'm pretty sure a one-comic week now and then won't cause any of us fans to explode.

[Shatteredtower]

It seems strange to me that V wouldn't have some sort of scroll/wand/spell potion on him/her though.As noted earlier, V used them all up.

Fortunately, the elf now has something better: a staff. Elan isn't the largest or most capable staff, but every administrator has to start somewhere. :smallwink:

I think the Elan/V pairings make for some of my favourite in the strip.

[Tach13]

Very enjoyable comic, and looking forward to how the group gets back together. Really enjoying this arc.

[Wardog]

Another piece of evidence that V isn't good.


What evidence is that?

[Amon Star]

YAY! :vaarsuvius: is the MAN! Let's see if this comments starts of another gender argument?

WARNING! The following spoiler contains a very poor joke. Tentacles & a Big Junk? I see the Giant has gotten into Hentai.:tongue:

Other than a thank you & best wishes to Rich, that is all. For now.

[Shatteredtower]

I just realized: Elan made a successful Spot check!

[Haruki-kun]

Elan just became cool o.O

[Aerysil]

V + Elan = Velan - er, a better Elan... sorry.

[Deepblue706]

I demand to be told why the hell that octopus wasn't Ultros.

[Garland]

I sure hope that the Japanese don't get any strange ideas with all this tentacle action on Hinjo's Junk...

[Megalomaniac2]

Vaarsuvius is back, and learns a valuable lesson- from Elan, no less- about what makes him/her most valuable. Also: Redcloak continues to own hard. Durkon, Lien, and Hinjo are doubtless not long for this world.

[ref]

Well if I was V and(having a little fighter skill added with skill points), while I was invisible I would has took a Hobbo's longsword and killed a few before I got to the ship. Then at the ship while under attack I would have helped fight back some of the Hobbos. But, hey, that's just me! :smallcool:

Good thinking, but doesn't work. Attacking would dispel Invisibility. You want Improved Invisibility for that, which is not what V cast.

[Calix]

Well if I was V and(having a little fighter skill added with skill points), while I was invisible I would has took a Hobbo's longsword and killed a few before I got to the ship. Then at the ship while under attack I would have helped fight back some of the Hobbos. But, hey, that's just me! :smallcool:

Well, if you did that you would lose the effectiveness of your invisibility spell, since you need Greater Invisibility to be invisible and still attack. Since V noted that Invisibility (not Greater Invisibility) was his/her only remaining spell, attacking a hobbo would probably lead to his/her death. V made the right call, live to fight another day.

:smalleek: Doesn't look like Belkar and Haley will get back in time.

Great strip Giant!

[Calix]

Good thinking, but doesn't work. Attacking would dispel Invisibility. You want Improved Invisibility for that, which is not what V cast.

Dang. You beat me to it.

[HUMVEE Driver]

Welcome back, V!

I wonder if the 'huddled masses' on a fleeing ship is any kind of allusion to the Statue of Liberty?

[shylocxs]

Hey!?!?!? Where did my post go to? I was so happy to see a new strip!

Oh well, us evil-doers always get censored.

Hehe... at least there wasn't any cheese in this strip!

[Ithekro]

Wait...Elan has 12 Bard levels, right? Should he just cast Summon Monster IV (Celestial Lion) rather than an illusion of one? (looking over the Bard spell list on the SRD...holy crap there is so much for this Bard to learn. He doesn't even need to be a cleric to be the new team first aid kit).

[Chronos]

Redcloak as almost no spell left, he cant win against Durkon right now and even less against Durkon with Hinjo and Lien.Redcloak and Durkon are both pretty drained right now, but I think Durkon is more drained than Redcloak is. Depending on what domain spells Redcloak prepared today, he could still have a couple of powerful single-target battle-ending spells available, and probably at least one. He's also at least two levels higher than Durkon. With the two paladins at his side (who have also used up their limited-use special abilities), Durkon might have a pretty good chance, but without knowing more than we do, we can't say who would win.

[Celisasu]

Wait...Elan has 12 Bard levels, right? Should he just cast Summon Monster IV (Celestial Lion) rather than an illusion of one? (looking over the Bard spell list on the SRD...holy crap there is so much for this Bard to learn. He doesn't even need to be a cleric to be the new team first aid kit).


This is Elan. Why would he choose Cure or Summon Monster spells when there are vastly more wonderful spells such as illusions and "Summon Plot Exposition"?

[Shadic]

V makes a return!

That was a wonderful comic, and I love Elan's random bursts of usefulness..

I'm worried about Redcloak though.. Hopefully they can fend him off (He's low on spells,) but I don't want him to die..

[eilandesq]

Durkon's a lot more dangerous than Redcloak is if they're both low on spells--Redcloak doesn't wear armor and has never been seen to wield as much as a dagger. If he's smart--and he is--one of his last spells is probably a Word of Recall that will get him back to Xykon before Durkon or Haley puts the x's in his eyes. Of course, that will require the junk to get down to business and get out of town before Xykon decides he's bored and comes to kill everyone.

[Forealms]

Excellent! Things are looking up to some moderate degree! Whoo!

[mikeejimbo]

Hahaha, V showing Elan how to use his magic. That's nice of hir.

[shakes019]

Wait...Elan has 12 Bard levels, right? Should he just cast Summon Monster IV (Celestial Lion) rather than an illusion of one? (looking over the Bard spell list on the SRD...holy crap there is so much for this Bard to learn. He doesn't even need to be a cleric to be the new team first aid kit).

Based on this post, I went and checked it out myself. With his 18 CHA, he has at least 4 spells of 1st to 4th level available, plus the 3-4 per level based on character level. So with 28-35 spells available to him, he should be able to turn the tide of the battle with the hobbos.

[16oz]

Woohoo! MUCH rejoicing! MUCH goodness!!
Indeed, so little NOT to like, this strip is like concentrated goodness, with no additives or preservatives. The return of V, screen time for all our fave Azure City escapees (love Elan STILL not knowing who Kazumi and Daigo are, will he ever figure it out?), teamwork for Elan and V... so much good stuff!

Thanks again Rich, and let my voice be added to the chorus reminding you to put your health first, our unendung hunger for your comic number 5 or 6 at the highest.

[Pyro]

I swear Elan is becoming one of my more favorite characters in the series. Future pyschic makes me giggle.

[Castamir]

Yah! V is back.
Screw V, the Giant is back!

OOTS withdrawal was... painful.

[factotum]

Based on this post, I went and checked it out myself. With his 18 CHA, he has at least 4 spells of 1st to 4th level available, plus the 3-4 per level based on character level. So with 28-35 spells available to him, he should be able to turn the tide of the battle with the hobbos.

It depends which spells he KNOWS. I believe a 12th level bard only actually knows three 4th level spells, for example, and Elan seems to specialise in illusions, so chances are he doesn't know things like Summon Monster IV.

[Faramir]

Woo! Kazumi and Daigo are full-fledged characters now,

Who?





random words added so I can avoid the message too short message

[GymGeekAus]

I think we're all forgetting about the metagame rules here.

Elan doesn't know any other spells right now, because his player has been too lazy to keep up with his spell list! It's not Elan's fault, of course.

Yeah, you can tell I'm a DM. "Bad player! No cookie!"

[Ithekro]

That means that Elan "could" be dangerous in battle as a caster and a fighter now. He just doesn't because he's Elan. Singing, Banjo worshiper, illusionist Elan.

It might be nice if they ever get back to some kind of dungeon crawling where it is just the PCs and maybe a few NCPs (and/or minions), running around again. Not a war, but more the traditional level appropriate encounters with the now slightly less incompetent, though still underpowered PCs.

[Tordek]

It seems to me that V is functioning in a master-apprentice role with Elan for casting, which would give Elan's illusions bonuses to their convincing others, as well as giving him spellcraft bonuses.

Am I crazy, or does that sorta make sense?

[BardicLasher]

V reminds me a lot of characters I've played here. Even when out of my own resources, I explain to the rest of the party how to use their resources better.


Oh, and Deeepblue... if it WAS Ultros, it wouldn't have been a threat.

[cyberchihuahua]

Wow. Elan gets tutored by a dashing swordsman, and becomes quasi effective in battle. He then gets a lesson from V about squeezing the most out of his illusions. I'm starting to think that Elan is just one sit down with Roy, Haley, and Durkon from proving that bards do, in fact, rock.

[mohair_ninja]

Welcome back, Giant, welcome back, Vaarsuvius!
It look like Elan preserved his powers for the very end of the battle of Azure City. But, as the MitD, his a little too childish to realise that he can use them earlier and more often.
V's not out of spells. S/he has a surplus of them, stored in Elan :smalltongue:

[David Argall]

Worth waiting for.


At last, we're back to the boat. Great comic.

I'll bet $20 on Redcloak snuffing it before this story arc ends

Sorry. Mama won't let me take candy away from babies, even when they are trying to shove it onto me.

Redcloak just serves too many vital story functions to get casually knocked off. Even if we assume there is another hob cleric able to cast Raise Dead, there is just no story utility to his death here. He almost certainly has to lose here and retreat, but he is going to survive.


Everyone should now understand why one should not let the paladin lead. Hinjo is showing great courage in standing and fighting, and endangering a shipload of lives to allow the rescue of 2-3 people who either are hopelessly dead or quite able to take care of themselves. The math is ultra-obvious. Under any sane [=non-paladin] leader, that ship would have long left.

Hinjo's a nice guy, but he should never be allowed in a position of command. Unfortunately, that is what he is in.

Since Elan is able to cast 4th level spells, he can actually summons a celestial lion, which allow for the nasty tactic of summonsing it when the hobs do realize the illusion is a fake. It arrives, the goblins ignore it as another fake and lion gets surprise round and likely full round attacks. The sort of thing that can send troops into headlong retreat.

[Fitzclowningham]

I know V is too intelligent to have said "singular", meaning extraordinary or remarkable, when he obviously meant to say "single". Rich must have muffed the transcription of the scene. Easy enough to do, and understandable, in the heat of battle.

[Belkar's Left Foot]

WHOOOO HOOOO!!!!!! I got one prediction right! :cool: I knew V would be on the boat waiting for them!.
(ahem)
Anyway, I wanted moar Durkon VS Redcloak, but I like octopus even more.

[Trixie]

So... when Belkar dumps paralysed deadweight he can't carry under these circumstances anyway in order to allow boat full of civilians (and him, incidentally) to escape hatesayers began to howl how evil he is and how he should be tortured (slowly) to death.

When V dumps the breach, the last brave officer and his men to their deaths, and cowardly hides among refugees taking the place of one possible refugee condemning him to death too, plus, despite being equivalent of 6-8th level fighter haven't raised a finger to defend those refugees [almost killing Lien in the process]...

It's apparently perfectly normal :smallannoyed:

Nope, not a single double standard here. :smallsigh:

[Yoritomo Himeko]

Everyone should now understand why one should not let the paladin lead. Hinjo is showing great courage in standing and fighting, and endangering a shipload of lives to allow the rescue of 2-3 people who either are hopelessly dead or quite able to take care of themselves. The math is ultra-obvious. Under any sane [=non-paladin] leader, that ship would have long left.

Hinjo's a nice guy, but he should never be allowed in a position of command. Unfortunately, that is what he is in.




<RANT>
This is exactly my problem with him. He is supposed to be a good leader, but not only does he keep on making very poor decisions, he doesn't even learn from them.

1. He let four prisoners out of prison. One of them wouldn't cooperate with him, another one joined Xykon, a third tried to assassinate him, and the fourth one was Belkar. Well, maybe that wasn't such a mistake, but he's still Belkar. :smalltongue:

2. He also wanted to stay in the city and fight. What for? Anyone who needed his help was on the last boat. He was in no position to either defend or take back Azure City. Staying would have only gotten him and others killed.

3. He honestly thought Miko would give up quietly. She just murdered his uncle in a fit of rage, and still thought he could reason with her. This too almost got him killed.

And another thing that bothered me was his reaction to seeing his uncle killed. I can see him getting upset about Argent, but he didn't even blink an eye at seeing his uncle dying right in front of him. Why not? That was just strange.

And now he is endangering the very people he is supposed to protect. Why? He was more mad that his orders weren't followed rather than fearing for their safety.

It looks as though everyone will be split into two groups anyway.

Maybe the people of Azure City would be better off with Daimyo Kutoba.

I also hate that stupid boat. :smallannoyed:

Sorry if I sounded like I was taking this too seriously, but these are just my problems with this personal story arc. And part of this was inspired by the Haley rant.

</RANT>

Since Elan is able to cast 4th level spells, he can actually summons a celestial lion, which allow for the nasty tactic of summonsing it when the hobs do realize the illusion is a fake. It arrives, the goblins ignore it as another fake and lion gets surprise round and likely full round attacks. The sort of thing that can send troops into headlong retreat.

That would be great! I'd love to see that happen. That'd make me like Elan even more.

[Capfalcon]

I know V is too intelligent to have said "singular", meaning extraordinary or remarkable, when he obviously meant to say "single". Rich must have muffed the transcription of the scene. Easy enough to do, and understandable, in the heat of battle.

Ah, but V was probably refering to the use of Singular that is "noting or pertaining to a member of the category of number found in many languages that indicates that a word form has one referent or denotes one person, place, thing, or instance, as Azurite boy and thing, which are singular nouns, or goes, a singular form of the verb go." (Yay, Dictionary.com)

Though I think it should be "... you cast one, SINGULAR, spell today?"

And glad to have you back Giant!

Don't push yourself too hard. I think everyone here apprecates the fact that you entertain us for free, so we won't gripe over a missed comic here or there. Your health is more important.

[boiled bones]

How is it that we made it through an entire strip (and a double, no less) without a single joke about Hinjo's Junk? I guess the giant doesn't feel like he has to make the same joke in every strip. Still, the tentacles wrapped all around the ship did seem to demand something.

I'm also confused as to why Belkar would be thinking of anyone's safety in the first place. It was a great link between the two strips, but did seem just a bit out of character.

The whole V standing out in the faceless crowd was just about perfectly done. Props for that.

And... um..., yeah, methinks it should have been "single." No biggy though. I know how to look the other way.

[hendrake]

...When V dumps the breach, the last brave officer and his men to their deaths, and cowardly hides among refugees taking the place of one possible refugee condemning him to death too, plus, despite being equivalent of 6-8th level fighter haven't raised a finger to defend those refugees [almost killing Lien in the process]...

There's no way that V is equivalent to a 6th to 8th level fighter...

13 (or whatever V has, I don't know) Wizard levels / sans any remaining spells = 13 levels of the Commoner class with a slightly higher Will save.

Though as an elf, s/he should be able to wield a bow and a longsword with proficiency, even if s/he did (and I note we've never seen any evidence that she possesses/is interested), s/he lacks the ARMOR, the FEATS, the ATTRIBUTE-FOCUS (Str, Con, Dex) and (probably) the HIT POINTS to be a "6th to 8th level fighter."

So whether or not s/he should have abandoned the breach (which in my opinion made sense for any number of reasons) and whether or not in making it to Hinjo's boat condemned another refugee to death (something we've seen no evidence of) and whether or not s/he should have helped Lien isn't a question of ability, it's a matter of courage.

Cowardice isn't evil, it's despicable.

Abandoning a good yet helpless man to be eaten while communicating to that man you're amusement and contempt is not the act of a good person or even a neutral one. Though hardly the worst thing that Belkar has ever done, it does nothing to lessen the "evilness" of the character.

Edit: Oh, and take a second look at the "vast chasm" that Belkar had to leap in order to get across to Haley. It's maybe a foot wide...two, tops.

[TreesOfDeath]

Elan and V rocks as a comedy duo, and they make a good pair.
Hope to see more ELan and V in the future!

[Fitzclowningham]

Touché, Capfalcon.

[David Argall]

1. He let four prisoners out of prison. One of them wouldn't cooperate with him, another one joined Xykon, a third tried to assassinate him, and the fourth one was Belkar. Well, maybe that wasn't such a mistake, but he's still Belkar. :smalltongue:

As a paladin, he likely shouldn't have made the offer. It smacks of associating with evil. However, it wasn't that bad a pragmatic decision. When you are facing an assault like this, you do fairly routinely empty the prisons.
But you normally put the prisoners in positions where they can be watched, not where they find it convenient to change sides or accept a bribe or just run away for that matter. So it is still a strike against Hinjo as leader.


3. He honestly thought Miko would give up quietly. She just murdered his uncle in a fit of rage, and still thought he could reason with her. This too almost got him killed.
It also almost worked. And just what sort of alternative would have really worked better? She is a criminal who must be arrested, and a very skilled fighter. That can mean a slaughter of any force sent to arrest her. Maybe he and Roy? Miko had just escaped Roy, and was likely to do so again. And his presence in any arresting force would cause the battle Hinjo is trying to avoid.
Hinjo was some one she respected in some degree and she would have qualms about attacking if he is alone. There is clearly a substantial chance he can talk her into going quietly to jail, as is shown by her starting to hand over her sword. No, that was the proper decision by Hinjo, even if it didn't work. The current case is the wrong decision even if it does work.


And another thing that bothered me was his reaction to seeing his uncle killed. I can see him getting upset about Argent, but he didn't even blink an eye at seeing his uncle dying right in front of him. Why not? That was just strange.
Hard to see what you are talking about. Hinjo is reacting a lot in 406-8. Possibly, you are considering early 406, when it was not so clear Miko had murderous intentions, but then Miko was his superior officer and he had to assume she had not gone off the rails.


I know V is too intelligent to have said "singular", meaning extraordinary or remarkable, when he obviously meant to say "single". Rich must have muffed the transcription of the scene. Easy enough to do, and understandable, in the heat of battle.
Except for those who worship English instead of use it, V made the better selection of words here. "Singular" does have the meaning "single" as well as "remarkable". But "single" here would not have the meaning "single". Rather it would read as in the boss telling you you have not done a single thing right today. In fact, you may have done the majority of things right. The boss merely means you have not done enough.
By contrast, "singular" in this context narrows the meaning to the numeric, as in he did one -count them- thing.

[Ichneumon]

Great comic as always.

The scary thing is, I was eating a fortune cookie while I read the comic.

[Adeptus]

Excellent again Rich!

[Wolfie_1066]

ROFL wow im so glad V is back with us...that made me chuckle and i would have laughed out loud if not for a room with my dad behind me :smallamused:

[ekedolphin]

Absolutely awesome to see Vaarsuvius mentoring Elan, especially remembering how, way back, she thought he was mocking wizards with his Elaniculus thing. (I know they hugged and made up, but it's good to see how far they've come since then!)

[tannish2]

almost 500 comics, and still no psionics... :( is he saving them for when he needs emergency material or something?

[Blaznak]

GO V!!! That's FANTASTIC to have V help Elan with his casting. Not that I think Elan will LEARN anything from it (ya never know...) but its cool to see him/her use her/his magical skills with our favorite Bard.

That was really cool!

Later...

[mockingbyrd7]

The magical mentoring was actually foreshadowed, I guess, in strip 66. Rich rocks, and welcome back!

[zombie]

v is definitely my favourite oots member. and believe me, he is a male :)

[Shara_Littlebottom]

Awesome octopus Giant! Wow! Sooo cool. The celestial lion was very cool too. Great comic, really enjoyed seeing V. back in the strip.

:-D

[5tephen]

Hey, did Elan just make a SPOT check!?

[Archaic]

Fortunately, the elf now has something better: a staff. Elan isn't the largest or most capable staff, but every administrator has to start somewhere. :smallwink:


*Laughs*

Ah, how wonderful that V finally has the essential accoutrement of every great wizard - a magic staff. A staff of illusions, no less!
There are so many puns you could make here about a Staff of Power, but I think Haley gets dibs on that one...

To adress other issues raised in the forum: I think that looking at V's personality that it would make complete sense for him to run away when his spells were all expended. V is so proud, if not arrogant, about his "ultimate arcane power" that having a back-up plan probably hasn't ever been considered. I haven't ever seen V with so much as a dagger, let alone a crossbow (as effective as low level spells like Ray of Frost but with a lot more uses per day). After all, Eugene Greenhilt himself has said that arcane magic has no drawbacks or weaknesses whatsoever.... right? *winks*
If you're able to tell the laws of the universe to sit down and shut up, why on earth would you need to consider the crude application of physical force using a weapon in order to solve your problems? Even at the wall, anticipating combat, V didn't bring a weapon other than scrolls and V's last resort is to use a magic spell to let him slip away. Without spells, V's response would be to think that there was nothing he could do.

Likewise I agree with those who have pointed out that Elan would have much more fun with illusions to choose the more useful summoning or healing spells... at least until he has a chance to level up and exchange some known spells. Elan's personality is such that combat hasn't ever been something he though much about beyond inspiring other's competence. It's only relatively recently that he branched out into being Dashing Swordsman.

I have to say that, for all the fourth wall breaking comments and in-jokes about skill ranks and build progression, what I most enjoy about OOTS is that the characters are so well roleplayed! They stay true to character and have such rich personalities: even when directing Elan on the use of his illusion, V still can't help but be bombastic and detailed in his explanations.

I think that the same thing is true of Hinjo. As a paladin he's a combat-focussed character. He's used to being on the front lines, and until very recently his uncle was lord of the city, and Miko was the more senior paladin. It's probably a new thing for him to have to look at the bigger picture. Given that he also would probably regard himself as being in debt to Roy, it makes some sense for him to be reluctant to cut his losses and set sail ASAP. Heck, he's even still thinking that he'll take back the city, although he doesn't have terribly many troops now and probably can't rely on the support of the lords.

For me, the best roleplaying is when people act in keeping with their character, even if it isn't in their best interests in game terms to do so. Like Roy taking the fight to Xykon.

So thanks Giant. This is one of my favourite strips to date. I'm glad we didn't have to wait any longer (I too was going into withdrawal) but if less frequent strips means you that you can turn out great work like this I'll take quality over quantity or predictability.

[fractal]

So, Redcloak, almost out of spells, vs. Hinjo, Lien, and Durkon, almost out of spells. Should be an interesting battle. We have reason to believe that the full Order could probably take Redcloak (Redcloak lost to Miko, and Miko had a rough time against just five members of the OotS, plus they've leveled since then).

However, Hinjo+Lien != Roy+Vaarsuvius+Haley+Belkar+Elan. Redcloak had better really be out of spells. At least Hinjo, Lien, and Durkon will have good Will and Fort saves.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

almost 500 comics, and still no psionics... :( is he saving them for when he needs emergency material or something?

There is a brief mention of psionics in "On the Origins of PCs." A psionicist holding a staff with three crystals tells Roy "No" by telepathy when Roy is trying to hire adventurers. A single panel out of thousands.

Unless... Sang-Waan is psyonic. Would a seer count?

So far, that's it.

[LtPowers]

Item of interest (to me): Neither the illusory celestial lion, nor the fiendish octopus, have sticks for limbs.


Powers &8^]

[dogmac]

Yay! V is back! Yay V!! Woo!!!!

We've missed you bigtime, and helping Elan cast scary lions is just perfect.

[Porthos]

So... when Belkar dumps paralysed deadweight he can't carry under these circumstances anyway in order to allow boat full of civilians (and him, incidentally) to escape hatesayers began to howl how evil he is and how he should be tortured (slowly) to death.

When V dumps the breach, the last brave officer and his men to their deaths, and cowardly hides among refugees taking the place of one possible refugee condemning him to death too, plus, despite being equivalent of 6-8th level fighter haven't raised a finger to defend those refugees [almost killing Lien in the process]...

It's apparently perfectly normal :smallannoyed:

Nope, not a single double standard here. :smallsigh:

Trixie, I invite you to read this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44338) before you start hurling charges of double standards. :smalltongue:

When V decided to book, there was a huge uproar on the boards, with many many people describing what Varsuivius did as despicable.

And if that thread isn't enough proof, I invite you to check out a bunch of threads that were made at the same time. There was a very nasty and ongoing flamewar over what V did back then.

So, just because you don't remember it happening, or you weren't around to see it, it doesn't mean that it didn't actually happen. In other words, there was no double standard here. :smallsmile:

Me, I'm more pissed a Vaarsuvius not attempting to rejoin with the rest of the OotS. Being out of spells is fine and dandy. But you would have thought that the V-Man would have at least made a token attempt to track down his friends.

PS: If you check out the Reaction Thread to Comic #408, you will see a huge uproar over Roy's actions as well. Any time a character (good or bad - protagonist or antagonist) does something "bad", the forum get up in arms. Heck, even Hinjo, of all characters, got a backlash when he slightly dressed down Elan and when he sentenced Belkar to a year in jail.

Indignant Reactions are not exactly in short supply 'round here. :smalltongue:

[GymGeekAus]

How is it that we made it through an entire strip (and a double, no less) without a single joke about Hinjo's Junk? I guess the giant doesn't feel like he has to make the same joke in every strip. Still, the tentacles wrapped all around the ship did seem to demand something. Perhaps that is the joke you seek....

Visual humor, you know.

[Milandros]

Redcloak as almost no spell left, he cant win against Durkon right now and even less against Durkon with Hinjo and Lien. But even if he die they probably wont realize that his amulet his Xykon phylactery so Xykon is just gonna raise him and it wont change anything.

Unlikely, unless he's just going to reanimate Redcloak as a shambling corpse (or maybe a slightly more powerful undead, like a wight or ghast).

Xykon's a sorceror, not a cleric. He doesn't have access to spells that raise the dead back to life. As a necromancer, he can of course animate them.

[Faramir]

Everyone should now understand why one should not let the paladin lead. Hinjo is showing great courage in standing and fighting, and endangering a shipload of lives to allow the rescue of 2-3 people who either are hopelessly dead or quite able to take care of themselves. The math is ultra-obvious. Under any sane [=non-paladin] leader, that ship would have long left.



Good point except for the fact that Haley and Belkar are neither dead nor able to escape on their own. So you're saying Hinjo should assume something that is not true. He's staying to try and save the lives of people who both risked their lives to try and stop Xykon and are probably one of the best hopes for taking him down in the future. If you factor that into the equation then he's risking a shipload of lives in return for a better chance of saving the entire world.

[Shatteredtower]

2. He also wanted to stay in the city and fight. What for? Anyone who needed his help was on the last boat.He'd given orders for that last boat to leave once it was loaded. He'd had no reason to believe the order had been disobeyed at the moment he was planning to stay and fight.


He was in no position to either defend or take back Azure City. Staying would have only gotten him and others killed.Notice that he heeded counsel to that effect when it was given. A good leader accepts good advice.


3. He honestly thought Miko would give up quietly.And she nearly did, up until he brought the gods back into it. His hope was not a failing. If he'd attacked her instead, she'd have been considering a fight with three opponents (even if Belkar couldn't do much) and it's more likely that she'd have fled before Roy could recover, rather than stayed for what she assumed was a one-on-one fight.


And another thing that bothered me was his reaction to seeing his uncle killed. I can see him getting upset about Argent, but he didn't even blink an eye at seeing his uncle dying right in front of him. Why not? That was just strange.Shojo was dead. Argent was not. That makes all the difference in the world.


And now he is endangering the very people he is supposed to protect. Why? He was more mad that his orders weren't followed rather than fearing for their safety.Well, let's think about this:

1. The same counsellors who talked him into abandoning the fight for the city support the decision to hold out a little longer for the sake of their leader and acting leader (if not Belkar). He could override them, but has not chosen to do so. The only objection we see to his decision comes from the captain, whose advice is certainly good.

2. He owes Roy the chance. By itself, this is not enough, but there are other factors involved here.

3. Killing Redcloak would indeed make Hinjo's long-term goal of recovering his city easier in the long run. It's a long shot, but this is the best chance they're going to get for a very long time.

4. Their forces seem more than capable of holding their own against everything else assembled against them in this position. It might be a different story if archery was involved, of course.

5. How exactly does setting sail help the ship's chances against the octopus currently wrapped around it?



Cowardice isn't evil, it's despicable.I fail to see anything cowardly in V's decision, even if it does leave the elf feeling ashamed. There's nothing heroic about suicide, which is what staying would have been for V. V who turned and ran away has power for the current fray. Sure, it's Elan's power, but as Roy has noted, you make due with the tools you're given.


Abandoning a good yet helpless man to be eaten while communicating to that man you're amusement and contempt is not the act of a good person or even a neutral one."Sorry, Scarface. Looks like one of us has an appointment with that thing's esophagus, and I nominate you, on account of not being me."

There is neither amusement for O-Chul's fate nor contempt for the paladin expressed in that statement.


Edit: Oh, and take a second look at the "vast chasm" that Belkar had to leap in order to get across to Haley. It's maybe a foot wide...two, tops.Now take a second look at how Belkar had been moving O-Chul around -- by dragging him.

The only way he'd have been dragging O-Chul across that chasm was straight down. :smallannoyed:


Me, I'm more pissed a Vaarsuvius not attempting to rejoin with the rest of the OotS. Being out of spells is fine and dandy. But you would have thought that the V-Man would have at least made a token attempt to track down his friends.V is a little ashamed to be caught in a weak moment. It's not a natural reaction but not a rational one, which makes for an amusing level of irony, since this is V we're discussing. :smallwink:

[Yoritomo Himeko]

.


Hard to see what you are talking about. Hinjo is reacting a lot in 406-8. Possibly, you are considering early 406, when it was not so clear Miko had murderous intentions, but then Miko was his superior officer and he had to assume she had not gone off the rails.

You're right, my mistake. He did react to his uncle's murder. I was thinking of his reaction to realising all of his paladin friends were dead. He only seemed to be upset at O-chul's apparent death. What I meant was that he was still very calm and collected even though he knew all of them were gone.

And I thought that he should have been more careful with Miko knowing she had just cut somebody down in a rage. She only meant to attack him, not give him her sword.

I hope I cleared things up a bit.

[fractal]

"Sorry, Scarface. Looks like one of us has an appointment with that thing's esophagus, and I nominate you, on account of not being me."

There is neither amusement for O-Chul's fate nor contempt for the paladin expressed in that statement.

Now take a second look at how Belkar had been moving O-Chul around -- by dragging him.

The only way he'd have been dragging O-Chul across that chasm was straight down. :smallannoyed:
True, however, if he had just put O-Chul down where he was, Haley could have helped him haul O-Chul over the chasm with a rope. Belkar's action was not unreasonable, but he could definitely have tried harder to save O-Chul.

In any event, Belkar, although evil, definitely has a solid sense of "team". He knows who the guys on his side are, and he wants the OotS to win. His declaration against Miko in 251 and conversation with Yok-Yok in 357 demonstrate this.

[Albion]

Return of V! MARVELLOUS! ...after the, I don't know, uncomfortable, non-glorious first see. (lifts his cup of Finnish booze in salute) I read V's reading to Elan-lines out loud quickly for dramatic effect, and oh boy, this is interesting. :smallbiggrin:

[kyrin]

Oh now, certainly Elan has Rainbow Pattern racked. Pretty colors... and 24 HD of hobgobs (which means, of course, 24 hobgobs with crappy Will saves) just stand and watch the light show, clogging up the dock. And they follow it where-e'er it goes...

With V's intellect and Elan's spell slots, the possibilities are endless...

JIM
aka kyrin

[Baalzebub]

Great comic! and that answers where the heck was V. Even no-spells wizards can be usefull.

[Deme]

Goody.

V's back.

It seems strange to me that V wouldn't have some sort of scroll/wand/spell potion on him/her though.

that's exactly why he ran away from the breach in the first place. He didn't. He just had the one spell, and it had a strictly limited use. If he had another scroll/wand/spell/potion, even just one, things might have turned out differently.

I think the truth is that unlike Elan in particular, and some other characters more generally, for V, just being there isn't enough. V wouldn't see the point in being somewhere if he couldn't be useful, and magic and knowledge are clearly, for him, the only ways he sees himself as being useful, at least in a fight. V seems like the sort of person who, if you came to him with an emotional problem, would give you some rambling, firm advice that would, theoretically, lead to some sort of solution. When you didn't take the advice, he would wonder why the heck you asked him in the first place, if you didn't want him to solve it for you.

((Also: V is back. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*pitch raises to supersonic highness. dogs howl, glass breaks, things start melting*))

[Troll Mage]

Durkon's a lot more dangerous than Redcloak is if they're both low on spells--Redcloak doesn't wear armor and has never been seen to wield as much as a dagger. If he's smart--and he is--one of his last spells is probably a Word of Recall that will get him back to Xykon before Durkon or Haley puts the x's in his eyes. Of course, that will require the junk to get down to business and get out of town before Xykon decides he's bored and comes to kill everyone.

What exactly is Xykon going to do? He was worse off than Redcloak, down to using magic missle. No way he would risk his undeath on a bunch of high level PC's, no matter how bored.

[Moebius]

Lovely comic. A meaningless statistic: It's the first strip in over 50 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0424.html) that includes all six OotS members.

For those thinking that Belkar is out of character: Maybe he's just worried that his getaway vehicle won't be there to save his lil' bacon?

[Chronos]

There are so many puns you could make here about a Staff of Power, but I think Haley gets dibs on that one...
No, Elan has a shortsword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0026.html). For comparison, Roy has a Trouser Titan, Belkar has a Rod of Lordly Might, Hinjo has his junk, and from SoD, (not really a spoiler but boxed just in case), Xykon has (or rather, had) a wand, and Redcloak and his brother have cucumbers.Haley has a couple of big round orbs that she got from her mother's side, and we don't know exactly what Durkon has, but he's surprisingly agile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0082.html) with it. And who knows about Vaarsuvius.

[The Wanderer]

Once again V proves to be the coolest wizard in the land. :smallbiggrin:

[Heainnailo]

V is still great, even without spells.

[Fabio_MP]

New comic is (finally) up.

I'm going to try to get some more comics (i.e. more than 3) up next week to catch up on this week's drought, if everything works out. No promises, naturally.

great comic, thanks

loved it, and V is so smart :)

PS: don't worry for next week just go on calmly, don't know how it is where you live, but here is HOT and humid so if you take it slowly it's ok :)
take care

[Vuzzmop]

The fiendish octopus looks like it has a pretty firm grip on Hinjo's junk, how will they get out of this one?

[the_tick_rules]

redcloak is a summoning maniac ain't he? Poor elan's puns, they never seem to come through when he needs them.

[eilandesq]

What exactly is Xykon going to do? He was worse off than Redcloak, down to using magic missle. No way he would risk his undeath on a bunch of high level PC's, no matter how bored.

He was low on high level spells, not out--and he's still got access to Overland Flight and is too high level for Durkon to turn. He was using magic missile because force spells work better on incorporeal creatures. As Haley suggested, he's still got more than enough firepower left to take out the remainder of the OotS, particularly if Redcloak softens them up a bit more first.

[Impikmin]

Heh a giant octopus is playing with Hinjo's junk :smallwink:

Wow, that octopus is so big it can hold Hinjo's junk in it's hands! It must be one massive creature! And did you hear? The octopus might crush Hinjo's junk!!:eek: I'm sure Hinjo's junk is too hard and strong to be crushed! I think it's made out of wood with a metal cover for extra protection. Long and wide live Hinjo's junk!!!:smallbiggrin:

[holywhippet]

V is a little ashamed to be caught in a weak moment. It's not a natural reaction but not a rational one, which makes for an amusing level of irony, since this is V we're discussing. :smallwink:

I think V is regretful, but maybe not ashamed about using invisibility to run away. It was the logical thing to do - it would have been shameful for V not to fight in the first place. With no spells, V would just have died a futile death.

As for not seeking out the other party member. V is a wizard, not a ranger, and even a ranger wouldn't be able to track someone down in a large city full of marauding hobgoblins. Escape was still the best plan.

A question about illusions though - is there a particular spell that Elan would have cast? I looked through the list on d20srg.org and didn't see any obvious candidates. What I was wondering is if the illusion is nothing more that trickery, or if it follows the old rule of "If you believe in it, it can hurt you".

[dsavereide]

What V did was "live to fight another day." He felt useless without his spells, especially in view of the approaching onslaught. He was applogetic to the fighters at the breach - truely sorry he couldn't help them. And now he was embarassed by what he did. But still owns up to what happened, though there was no pressure to. Not many would be so honest.

What Belkar did, was when he was far enough from Haley not to be seen, was throw back O'Chul because he slowed him down. Not because he couldn't - failure was not emminent - but because he didn't want to take the risk. Without remorse. Then he lied about it.

I just don't see how you can say they were simular acts. BTW, I don't think that V's act was cowardly, but even if it were, cowardice in and of itself is not evil.

I'm not a player, so maybe someone can explain this:

Haley said that they couldn't put O'Chul in the bag of holding because he's still alive and would suffocate in there. But Roy clearly doesn't need to breathe, so why not make the journey easier by putting him in the bag?

[David Argall]

Roy in the bag of holding is on a different plane, which can easily be ruled to be more than 1 mile from Belkar, which could invoke a Belkar-ruining curse.

It might not, but Belkar does not want to take the chance.

[outlander]

Well, I loved seeing V and Elan work together productively. Maybe this will teach V to respect the idiot a little more.

As someone thoughtfully pointed out, this is the first time is over 50 issues that the whole group is together.

I'm hoping that we get to see durkon and reddy square off, since both ought to be evenly matched now that both are likely low of points. If it goes to a melee, we know that durkon should win that.

Then again there's the prophecy about durkon to make things interesting.

As to the hobs on the pier, sheesh, I think belkar tore thru that many to make his famous "I am a sexy shoeless god of war!" speech.

[factotum]

A question about illusions though - is there a particular spell that Elan would have cast? I looked through the list on d20srg.org and didn't see any obvious candidates.

Elan's favourite illusion spell in early strips was Silent Image, but I expect he has more powerful variants of that available by now (the mannequins he paraded on the castle wall definitely had associated audio, for example). However, I've not heard of any D&D spell classed as an illusion which can actually do harm to anyone--the game just doesn't work that way.

Oh, and Outlander, how exactly is the "whole group together"? Belkar, Haley and Roy are still outside the city, and since they started from a position three miles from the docks, it'll take them a goodly while to join up with the others--even ignoring the city full of hobgoblins between them!

[johnnyriot999]

I sooo want a celestial lion avatar now. :smallamused:

[Secris]

I'm sorry if this was asked before, I looked quickly and didn't see it. However, I'm very tired and my eyes are quite sore.

Anyways, what spell did Elan cast, and when?

[Delgarde]

However, I've not heard of any D&D spell classed as an illusion which can actually do harm to anyone--the game just doesn't work that way.

Actually, there are a few. Phantasmal Killer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantasmalKiller.htm) would be the obvious example - an illusion so terrifying that if the victim believes it real, they risk dying of fear.

There are also Shadow Evocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shadowEvocation.htm) and Shadow Conjuration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shadowConjuration.htm), which allow an illusionist to fake Evocation or Conjuration spells - if believed in, the fake does real (albeit reduced from the true spell) damage. The latter would actually be ideal for this situation, since if the hobgoblins thought the lion was real, it's claws really would rip through them.

[Delgarde]

Anyways, what spell did Elan cast, and when?


Unknown, but Major Image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/majorImage.htm) would be the obvious choice. Provides more than just the visual illusion - it includes sound, smell, etc - and can be animated. It's only a 3rd level Bard spell, so is almost certainly on his list of spells.

[shylocxs]

Screw V, the Giant is back!

OOTS withdrawal was... painful.

It's so hard, waiting so long, for the things you love... sigh....

[malakim2099]

Well, good for V's triumphant return.

And I think Durkon, Hinjo, and Lien are going to force Redcloak to withdraw. Hinjo /might/ die, which could cause a considerable fuss as they need to then angst over which character to raise. Hinjo or Roy? Considering that Durkon is the highest level good cleric with the Azurites right now, it isn't exactly an easy choice.

Oh, who am I kidding, RAISE ROY ALREADY! EESH!

[Faramir]

Oh, and Outlander, how exactly is the "whole group together"? Belkar, Haley and Roy are still outside the city, and since they started from a position three miles from the docks, it'll take them a goodly while to join up with the others--even ignoring the city full of hobgoblins between them!

I think he means that all individual members of the OOTS appear in this comic. It's been a while.

[Nightfall]

The halo on the lion was a nice touch. V and Elan...what a team!:smallsmile:

[Iranon]

Ahem. A giant fiendish octopus... in a predominantly asian setting.

Would someone please escort the ladies downstairs, before something HORRIBLE happens?

[Cen]

Anyways, what spell did Elan cast, and when?

Major Image in 455 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0455.html)

[Mongo 900 B.C]

Sweet strip Yay elan!!!

[zanemaster98]

poor roy, has been through all this crap from even before he fell to his death, and now he gets arrowed in the nuts, how is that fair?

[DrivinAllNight]

It is so weird seeing Elan as a useful character and having Belkar actually care about the other members of the party?!?!
Maybe the happy ending of Elan's is him being the new OOTS leader, and Belkar dies soon because he hesitates to kill because he has learned compassion ..... Naaah, that'll never happen

[Alyorbase]

Nice job Rich. Great comic.:smallsmile:

[Wonton]

To be honest, the first thing I thought when I saw the octopus was "Oh man, Rich is definitely gonna make some joke about Pirates of the Caribbean". I was a little disappointed by the lack of reference to my favourite trilogy, but cheered up by the awesomeness of the comic.

Besides, I'm not counting it out yet. :smallbiggrin:
Can't you just see it?
:elan: Hello, beastie. *goes in with rapier*

[jolus]

Welcome Back, V.

The Order will be reunited in the End.

[Jevanyn]

woo :vaarsuvius: is still alive and combined with elan is actually useful!:

Yes, in the very definition of "Aid Another" :smallcool:

[Grungydan]

V helping Elan be a good caster! How cool is that? :)

[MReav]

Why is that rapier so useless? It's a freaking +3 keen weapon. It deals 4-9 damage without a strength bonus, which is enough to kill most warriors.

[malakim2099]

Besides, I'm not counting it out yet. :smallbiggrin:
Can't you just see it?
:elan: Hello, beastie. *goes in with rapier*

Actually, I think :durkon: would be more inclined to call anything a Beastie. But I like the image. Though I have to think...

Redcloak, facing the triple onslaught, is forced to fall back to Xykon/get reinforcements, which provides an opening for Haley and co. to get on the ship.

[Hushdawg]

Why is that rapier so useless? It's a freaking +3 keen weapon. It deals 4-9 damage without a strength bonus, which is enough to kill most warriors.

As with all things OOTS there is a game reason and a storytelling reason:

Game Reason: Elan has a terrible combat roll history and just doesn't hit the AC of anything and when he does, he can't get past the DR.

Storytelling reason: It's more fun that way.

[Verick Severith]

Great comic! Hopefully things are looking up now! :smallbiggrin:

[Ariko]

Why is that rapier so useless? It's a freaking +3 keen weapon. It deals 4-9 damage without a strength bonus, which is enough to kill most warriors.

Its because his combat skills are based on his puns due to the nature of his prestige class. If they dont work for whatever reason (repetition, or deafness for instance) than his skills drop badly.

[the_tick_rules]

cause it's funnier that way.

[mockingbyrd7]

As with all things OOTS there is a game reason and a storytelling reason:

Game Reason: Elan has a terrible combat roll history and just doesn't hit the AC of anything and when he does, he can't get past the DR.

Storytelling reason: It's more fun that way.

"as with all things OOTS..." I like that. I think I'm going to use that from now on.

Great strip! Nice to see V mentoring Elan again like V did in strip 66.

[Bendal]

The OOTS had better hope Xykon doesn't get involved; with his high DR and ability to paralyze by touch, he doesn't really need spells to devastate the whole party.

Redcloak does seem to have an awful lot of summoning spells, doesn't he? The elemental elementals, the fiendish mammoth, a (very large) fiendish octopus (holding Hinjo's junk), and probably some other things I forgot about. Not to mention all those spells he cast in that cleric vs cleric duel.

[factotum]

None of the spells cast in the duel were summoning spells, though...

[Ravenatog]

No worries from Xykon he would most assuredly get bored before inflicting serious damage on the Oots. Just hope Belkar doesn't get tired of carrying Roy's body lol.

[Keri Thornwood]

Yay! V is back! The Oots are almost reunited and O-Chul can toast their success with MITD!

[tmacdevitt]

Redcloak does seem to have an awful lot of summoning spells, doesn't he? The elemental elementals, the fiendish mammoth, a (very large) fiendish octopus (holding Hinjo's junk), and probably some other things I forgot about. Not to mention all those spells he cast in that cleric vs cleric duel.


How many possible spells could this guy have left? Its ridicoulous!

[MatthewDomville]

Redcloak probably has Scribe Scroll, and spent some time off-camera "writing his memoirs" in preparation for the big fight.

[Porthos]

How many possible spells could this guy have left? Its ridicoulous!

He's at least 15th level, and probably has a pretty high WIS, so:

Presuming a WIS of 22-23...
1: 8 spells
2: 8 spells
3: 7 spells
4: 6 spells
5: 6 spells
6: 5 spells
7: 3 spells
8: 2 spells

Total Spells (not including Cantrips): 45, with 16 of them being 5th level and higher. And if his wisdom is higher, then the spell count goes up even more.

Don't forget that for the vast majority of the battle, Redcloak wasn't casting any spells at all. And, as MatthewDomville points out, it is entierly possible that Redcloak had a lot of scrolls entering the battle. Or he mihgt have hit up a couple of his lieutenants for scrolls before he went to sink Hinjo's junk.

So I can't say it surprises me that Redcloak still has juice in his batteries. :smalltongue:

[Ithekro]

Redcloak:redcloak:: High level, educated, evil, goblin, cleric, nerd.

I mean he uses periodic table elementals and casts at least dozens of spells in one day. Do we include the three higher free-willed undead in this total as well? Four elementals, two summoned monsters, a blade barrier, plus at least seven spells since he entered the castle, and several turn undead (sorta).

[kalo]

if only V would of prepared the spell ''mage link'' it would of been the best fight of elan(sword fighting) and V using the spells of elan behind him (can morph the spells to tranmutation with mage link on) and mage link is seen in the damn books dont try to fool ma brains guys o wait i forgot about pinky..

(for people like pinky contact me)


dont try to quote me or say anything about me i dont come back on every post(just email me if u can)

[ElphabaFanatic]

Yay for :vaarsuvius: making :elan: useful!

[Style]

Go Elan go !!!!


(First post:smallredface: )

[Hushdawg]

How many possible spells could this guy have left? Its ridicoulous!

Well, if you read Start of Darkness:

We know that the red cloak is an artifact-type magic item, it could very well give a ton of bonus spell slots given that he had complete immunity to the spell-eating virus in the forest of Lirian.
Also, let's not forget the massive jolt that RedCloak got when he put it on, that would certainly indicate a massive surge of power flowing into someone.

[Doug Lampert]

And... um..., yeah, methinks it should have been "single." No biggy though. I know how to look the other way.

I don't. The emphasis here is on what Elan had just said. "I cast a spell today..."

Rephrase the reply a bit. 'You cast a spell, singular, today?', That's basically what V is asking. The question is when Elan said "I cast a spell today" was that SINGULAR case deliberate and correct and does that mean he hasn't cast any others.

The actual sentance is "A spell? You cast one singular spell today?" The question is of what Elan just said and if that singular case actually means he's still almost full up.

[Rajhiim]

Yeah, that's how I read it too...

:vaarsuvius: : "Woah there bucko... You mean to say you only cast ONE spell today???"
:elan: : "Um, yeah... why?"

:vaarsuvius: : "Do you realize you are a yet to be tapped wealth of arcane possibilities my foolish friend... Come with me and learn a thing or two."

[Calico]

There are also Shadow Evocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shadowEvocation.htm) and Shadow Conjuration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shadowConjuration.htm), which allow an illusionist to fake Evocation or Conjuration spells - if believed in, the fake does real (albeit reduced from the true spell) damage. The latter would actually be ideal for this situation, since if the hobgoblins thought the lion was real, it's claws really would rip through them.

And we can't neglect the fact that the lion ripping through them would just strengthen the illusion.

[Max_Sinister]

Things have changed very much since the time when V got mad because Elan wanted his first wizard level by "looking V over the shoulder", retroactively.